Character Discussion Thread

[ChikoLad]

They originate from a fighting game. That's what they're most iconic for.

Not to mention that none of them are really all that legendary. The most legendary fighting characters are arguably Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Heihachi, Ryu, Chun Li...etc

Doesn't really matter though. http://www.insidegamingdaily.com/20...-wont-have-a-story-mode-or-tekken-characters/

Characters from fighting games such as Street Fighter, Tekken, and Soul Caliber will probably not be getting in.

Sakurai didn't say a thing about Tekken characters, that was the writer of the article talking out of his arse.
Sakurai said he was a bit uneasy on the subject, that's all. Doesn't mean it's out of the question.

And the Tekken characters I have listed are EXTREMELY iconic. Lili and Xiayou are two of the most popular characters in the franchise, with Lili appearing in various other Namco related games, and having been featured in various different promotional materials. She's pretty much been the poster girl of the franchise.

Jin, on the other hand, is basically the main character, and is hugely iconic too. He was the poster boy for Tekken 3, which was one of the most popular entries in the franchise.

I live in IRELAND of all countries, and every single gamer I know, including the CODheads and the ones who only play football games, know what Tekken is. It re-defined the fighting genre, and continues to innovate in that regard. If I'm not mistaken, it's actually the best selling fighting franchise in the world (which makes it more popular than Smash).

I'm not saying it's likely, but if a Namco rep DID get in, I'd much rather see a Tekken character. Yes, the original Pac-man was revolutionary, but literally the only other games in this 30 game franchise that people care about are Ms. Pac-Man and Pac-Man Championship edition. Not to mention that Pac-Man has no real appeal as a character, and Smash Bros is about characters.

EDIT: Just checked the global sales of Smash and Tekken:

Smash - 24.69 million
Tekken - 40.17 million

So yeah, Tekken has the fanbase to attract millions to Smash, if a character was included. The series has a lot of personality and charm too, so it deserves representation, I feel, if Namco is making the game. I wouldn't be saying this if Namco wasn't making it, but considering they are, and they put a lot of Nintendo love in Tekken Tag Tournament 2, I feel it's deserved.

I know people are saying that Pac-Man should be in because of him being a popular mascot, but to me, Mario, Mega Man, and Sonic are a complete enough bunch. They are the kings of platforming. Pac-Man has tried platforming, but has not seen much success in that regard. And the only other super successful platformer that isn't from Nintendo that comes to mind is Crash Bandicoot, but he's never getting in. So why not just have two cartoony third parties (Sonic and Mega Man), and two more realistic looking ones (Snake and a Tekken rep)?

 

[Dan]

If Paper Mario is included, do we think he will rep his own series, or be a part of Mario's?

 

[TumblrFamous]

Definitely Mario series. No question.

 

[ChikoLad]

*personally thinks Paper Mario would be a cool alt skin for Mario*

 

[BluePikmin11]

*personally thinks Paper Mario would be a cool alt skin for Mario*

You gotta remember those hitboxes.

 

[ChikoLad]

You gotta remember those hitboxes.

Their hit box could work similarly, as Smash hitboxes are not anatomically accurate. They'd just have to make his size around the same as Mario, and due to his 2D effect like Game & Watch, any slight discrepancies in his hitbox compared to his sprite would not really appear as such.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Paper Mario representing the "Paper Mario" franchise. Mmm, I can kinda see that coming. I'm just worried that he'd replace Mr Game And Watch as a playable character, and I do not want to lose Mr Game and Watch

 

[Dan]

Well in Brawl the Paper Mario trophies are classified into the Super Mario Bros. subgroup: http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_SSBB_trophies_(Super_Mario_Bros._series)

 

[Shorts]

Hit boxes can be disproportionate, it doesn't really matter all that much so long as it's within reason. I mean, look at Snake in Brawl.

I wouldn't mind a Pichu alt for Pikachu. It would have some disproportionate hitboxes, but nothing too crazy.

 

[Curious Villager]

Paper Mario representing the "Paper Mario" franchise. Mmm, I can kinda see that coming. I'm just worried that he'd replace Mr Game And Watch as a playable character, and I do not want to lose Mr Game and Watch

Why should Paper Mario's inclusion affect Game & Watch's in any way? It's not like there is some kind of rule that states that there can only be one flat character playable in Smash.... :/

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Sakurai didn't say a thing about Tekken characters, that was the writer of the article talking out of his arse.
Sakurai said he was a bit uneasy on the subject, that's all. Doesn't mean it's out of the question.

And the Tekken characters I have listed are EXTREMELY iconic. Lili and Xiayou are two of the most popular characters in the franchise, with Lili appearing in various other Namco related games, and having been featured in various different promotional materials. She's pretty much been the poster girl of the franchise.

Jin, on the other hand, is basically the main character, and is hugely iconic too. He was the poster boy for Tekken 3, which was one of the most popular entries in the franchise.

I live in IRELAND of all countries, and every single gamer I know, including the CODheads and the ones who only play football games, know what Tekken is. It re-defined the fighting genre, and continues to innovate in that regard. If I'm not mistaken, it's actually the best selling fighting franchise in the world (which makes it more popular than Smash).

I'm not saying it's likely, but if a Namco rep DID get in, I'd much rather see a Tekken character. Yes, the original Pac-man was revolutionary, but literally the only other games in this 30 game franchise that people care about are Ms. Pac-Man and Pac-Man Championship edition. Not to mention that Pac-Man has no real appeal as a character, and Smash Bros is about characters.

EDIT: Just checked the global sales of Smash and Tekken:

Smash - 24.69 million
Tekken - 40.17 million

So yeah, Tekken has the fanbase to attract millions to Smash, if a character was included. The series has a lot of personality and charm too, so it deserves representation, I feel, if Namco is making the game. I wouldn't be saying this if Namco wasn't making it, but considering they are, and they put a lot of Nintendo love in Tekken Tag Tournament 2, I feel it's deserved.

I know people are saying that Pac-Man should be in because of him being a popular mascot, but to me, Mario, Mega Man, and Sonic are a complete enough bunch. They are the kings of platforming. Pac-Man has tried platforming, but has not seen much success in that regard. And the only other super successful platformer that isn't from Nintendo that comes to mind is Crash Bandicoot, but he's never getting in. So why not just have two cartoony third parties (Sonic and Mega Man), and two more realistic looking ones (Snake and a Tekken rep)?

I would certainly argue that more people would recognize Pac-Man, but this discussion isn't going to go anywhere based on the differences in opinion, so I'll drop it.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Why should Paper Mario's inclusion affect Game & Watch's in any way? It's not like there is some kind of rule that states that there can only be one flat character playable in Smash.... :/

I know it sounds crazy, but you see, both Paper Mario and Mr Game and Watch are two-dimensional characters.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I know it sounds crazy, but you see, both Paper Mario and Mr Game and Watch are two-dimensional characters.

Mario and Luigi are plumbers, yet no one complains about them. Visuals shouldn't matter in Smash.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Mario and Luigi are plumbers, yet no one complains about them. Visuals shouldn't matter in Smash.

Well, I'm still not sure we need two characters that are the same person. Sakurai's made that mistake twice in Melee with Dr Mario and Young Link.

 

[Kenith]

Well, I'm still not sure we need two characters that are the same person. Sakurai's made that mistake twice in Melee with Dr Mario and Young Link.

So Paper Mario and Mr. Game & Watch are the same person? Need I remind you, Mr. Game & Watch represents the LCD screens of the Game & Watch screens, while Paper Mario is supposed to look like a pop-up in a storybook (in Japan, Paper Mario is Mario Story), so they don't even represent the same concept.

And what they do is, obviously, vastly different. How are they the same person?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

So Paper Mario and Mr. Game & Watch are the same person? Need I remind you, Mr. Game & Watch represents the LCD screens of the Game & Watch screens, while Paper Mario is supposed to look like a pop-up in a storybook (in Japan, Paper Mario is Mario Story), so they don't even represent the same concept.

And what they do is, obviously, vastly different. How are they the same person?

I laid off Mr Game and Watch! Paper Mario and Mario are the same person.

 

[Kenith]

I laid off Mr Game and Watch! Paper Mario and Mario are the same person.

....oh. Then, Toon Link.

 

[Baskerville]

Why should Paper Mario's inclusion affect Game & Watch's in any way? It's not like there is some kind of rule that states that there can only be one flat character playable in Smash.... :/

Cuz 2D. They can never co exist. Much like Link & To- ohh.....

 

[ChikoLad]

I would certainly argue that more people would recognize Pac-Man, but this discussion isn't going to go anywhere based on the differences in opinion, so I'll drop it.

There is a difference between recognising and caring about a character.

 

[Sehnsucht]

So Paper Mario and Mr. Game & Watch are the same person? Need I remind you, Mr. Game & Watch represents the LCD screens of the Game & Watch screens, while Paper Mario is supposed to look like a pop-up in a storybook (in Japan, Paper Mario is Mario Story), so they don't even represent the same concept.

And what they do is, obviously, vastly different. How are they the same person?

I think @ Jason the Yoshi was referring to Mario and Paper Mario, and not Paper Mario and G&W. It's evident that the latter two are distinct entities, but the differentiation between the former is less defined.

For the record, I see no issue with Mario and Paper Mario coexisting in the same Smash iteration. I did play Paper Mario on the N64, so I'm not entirely unfamiliar with him, but I'm not quite salivating at his potential inclusion either. If Paper Mario has what it takes to get into Smash, then Mario's presence would not be an encumbrance (unless Sakurai decides it is).

 

[TumblrFamous]

Using that logic is extremely flawed. Like sword-users, or magical princesses, or girls wearing dresses. I mean, Paper Mario and G&W of all characters? This goes for any character that could seem "cloney" or taking the "niche" of a character: as long as they are completely different in terms of gameplay and moveset, who the hell cares? People thought Rosalina would be a clone of Peach, and she is by far one of the most unique characters in the game.

 

[Starphoenix]

Mario and Paper Mario exist in two entirely different planes, literally. If that were not enough their proportions are so dramatically different that trying to make Paper Mario an alternate costume is about as sensible as making Luigi an alternate of Mario. Paper Mario has a more exaggerated head and no legs; kind of a problem when we're talking about plastering the hitbox onto another character.

As far as Game and Watch and Paper Mario is concerned, the latter has more fluid movements -- at least if TTYP and SPM were anything to go by -- compared to the choppier, stop-motion stuttering of Game and Watch.

 

[Gunla]

Cuz 2D. They can never co exist. Much like Link & To- ohh.....

The ironic part is that people sometimes think Doc was cut because Mario & Dr. Mario can't co-exist.
Pretty sure Young Link, Link, and Toon Link can all coexist.
And so can all three main Mario iterations.
Now, in terms of Sakurai's magic scale of priority, that's a different story.

 

[Dan]

Paper Mario really can't even be a clone of Mario. He doesn't use fireballs or any of his move set. I think Paper Mario would be an extremely unique character. You could even incorporate his partners. Like for his taunt, Goombario would tattle, just like Snake's codex. He would use his hammer, final smash would be all of the star spirits, Parakarry can be his recovery, Bombette could be his down-B, Kooper could be neutral B. It's just too perfect, especially with him having a new game and all, but idk if they would go back to his N64 play-style.

 

[Kenith]

Paper Mario really can't even be a clone of Mario. He doesn't use fireballs or any of his move set. I think Paper Mario would be an extremely unique character. You could even incorporate his partners. Like for his taunt, Goombario would tattle, just like Snake's codex. He would use his hammer, final smash would be all of the star spirits, Parakarry can be his recovery, Bombette could be his down-B, Kooper could be neutral B. It's just too perfect, especially with him having a new game and all. But idk if they would go back to his N64 play-style.

Stupid Sticker Star doesn't have partners though. I really hate that game, if they include Paper Mario I hope he is not based on that game at all.

 

[ChikoLad]

Paper Mario really can't even be a clone of Mario. He doesn't use fireballs or any of his move set. I think Paper Mario would be an extremely unique character. You could even incorporate his partners. Like for his taunt, Goombario would tattle, just like Snake's codex. He would use his hammer, final smash would be all of the star spirits, Parakarry can be his recovery, Bombette could be his down-B, Kooper could be neutral B. It's just too perfect, especially with him having a new game and all. But idk if they would go back to his N64 play-style.

The problem with this is that Mario uses a lot of Paper Mario's techniques in the Mario & Luigi games anyway. Including the iconic hammer.

As I've said before, Paper Mario is better off as an alt skin for Mario, if not Dr. Mario. I don't want two Marios in their own slots though, as Mario is always Mario. It's not like Link and Toon Link, who have distinctly different personalities and back stories. I wish Toon Link could have a more unique moveset though, but I'm more accepting of him because he actually feels like a different character (and he's a faster Link anyway, in terms of moveset...).

 

[Starphoenix]

Highly doubt Sakurai would emphasize partners in a hypothetical Paper Mario moveset much, if at all. Considering that whole mechanic was ripped from Sticker Star, I don't think it's viewed as the defining lynch pin of the series. What does define the series is the first word in the title: 'paper.' That is something Sakurai could, and probably would, emphasize above all else. Switching between dimensions, changing his body into origami crafts, using sticker and paper based items; that is the kind of direction I could see Paper Mario going.

 

[Kenith]

As I've said before, Paper Mario is better off as an alt skin for Mario, if not Dr. Mario. It's not like Link and Toon Link, who have distinctly different personalities and back stories.

Stop. You're saying Toon LInk warrants inclusion because he has a backstory? Toon Link doesn't have a backstory. He isn't the Wind Waker Link, or is he the Spirit Tracks version. He is an avatar, a concept. Toon Link wasn't added for his "backstory" he was added for his uniqueness and the fact they wanted a child Link.
The only difference between Link and Toon Link as far as the game is concerned is artstyle. Same as Paper Mario.

 

[Dan]

Paper Mario can't be an alt-skin because he doesn't use fireballs, FLUDD, the cape or any of that in his games. Plus, I would think he's shorter than normal Mario.

 

[Curious Villager]

Paper Mario did actually use the Fireballs in Sticker Star....

He never used FLUDD or the cape though if I recall correctly so you're right with that.

 

[ChikoLad]

Stop. You're saying Toon LInk warrants inclusion because he has a backstory? Toon Link doesn't have a backstory. He isn't the Wind Waker Link, or is he the Spirit Tracks version. He is an avatar, a concept. Toon Link wasn't added for his "backstory" he was added for his uniqueness and the fact they wanted a child Link.
The only difference between Link and Toon Link as far as the game is concerned is artstyle. Same as Paper Mario.

Spirit Tracks Link did not own the Wind Waker. It's quite clearly based solely off of Wind Waker Link. Also, Wind Waker Link had a lot of personality, charm, expressiveness, and did have a back story.

I swear, you guys sometimes forget that the very reason this series was created was because Sakurai thought it'd be a fun idea to throw Nintendo characters people love into one game. Like, this series was initially conceived without them. It was going to be just another fighter with unique mechanics, but assorted martial artists as characters. But then they added Nintendo characters.

No matter what you think, the actual character of these characters is important. It's what makes Smash Bros such a fun idea in the first place. It's why it has the hype. Most people don't go "OMG IM SO HYPED MEGAMAN IS IN THE GAME BECAUSE HIS MOVESET IS GOING TO BE UNIQUE AND INTERESTING AND HES GONNA HELP BALANCE THE ROSTER AND AAAAAAAAAAAAAH OMG". Sure, it's cool he has that, but most people trust the developers to do that. The HYPE comes from the thought "OMG IM SO HYPED MEGAMAN IS IN THE GAME BECAUSE HES COOL AND CHARMING AND I GREW UP WITH HIM AND HES A HUGE PART OF MY LIFE".

If you are seriously trying to downplay the base concept of this franchise as an insignificant detail, then I seriously don't know what to say to you.

 

[Starphoenix]

Spirit Tracks Link did not own the Wind Waker. It's quite clearly based solely off of Wind Waker Link. Also, Wind Waker Link had a lot of personality, charm, expressiveness, and did have a back story.

I swear, you guys sometimes forget that the very reason this series was created was because Sakurai thought it'd be a fun idea to throw Nintendo characters people love into one game. Like, this series was initially conceived without them. It was going to be just another fighter with unique mechanics, but assorted martial artists as characters. But then they added Nintendo characters.

No matter what you think, the actual character of these characters is important. It's what makes Smash Bros such a fun idea in the first place. It's why it has the hype. Most people don't go "OMG IM SO HYPED MEGAMAN IS IN THE GAME BECAUSE HIS MOVESET IS GOING TO BE UNIQUE AND INTERESTING AND HES GONNA HELP BALANCE THE ROSTER AND AAAAAAAAAAAAAH OMG". Sure, it's cool he has that, but most people trust the developers to do that. The HYPE comes from the thought "OMG IM SO HYPED MEGAMAN IS IN THE GAME BECAUSE HES COOL AND CHARMING AND I GREW UP WITH HIM AND HES A HUGE PART OF MY LIFE".

If you are seriously trying to downplay the base concept of this franchise as an insignificant detail, then I seriously don't know what to say to you.

Three words: Wii Fit Trainer. Doesn't get much more charismatic and requested than that.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I don't think a backstory warrants a character inclusion at all.

 

[Gunla]

I don't think a backstory warrants a character inclusion at all.

This. Unless people consider ROB to be an exception. I mean, he did kind of save the gaming industry for Nintendo.... but no one else's story has changed the face of Nintendo in such manner.

 

[Croph]

When you think about it, Rosalina, even though she is distinguishable enough imo, does have some similarities to Peach, aesthetic wise. I think Sakurai saw some unique potential, coupled by the fact that she's a newer, popular face (and hopefully reoccurring even more) in the Mario series. I do think Sakurai didn't solely come up with Rosalina's mechanic/gameplay though -- I believe some external influences helped, but that's another story.

I'm just trying to understand what Rosalina is telling us. Does it not matter if a character looks similar to another already (and less requested), as long as they can offer a unique moveset?

 

[Kenith]

Spirit Tracks Link did not own the Wind Waker. It's quite clearly based solely off of Wind Waker Link. Also, Wind Waker Link had a lot of personality, charm, expressiveness, and did have a back story.

Based on is not the same as "is". Toon Link isn't Wind Waker Link, he's Smash Brothers Toon Link.

I swear, you guys sometimes forget that the very reason this series was created was because Sakurai thought it'd be a fun idea to throw Nintendo characters people love into one game. Like, this series was initially conceived without them. It was going to be just another fighter with unique mechanics, but assorted martial artists as characters. But then they added Nintendo characters.

I agree. But what does that have to do with any of the things we're talking about?

No matter what you think, the actual character of these characters is important. It's what makes Smash Bros such a fun idea in the first place. It's why it has the hype. Most people don't go "OMG IM SO HYPED MEGAMAN IS IN THE GAME BECAUSE HIS MOVESET IS GOING TO BE UNIQUE AND INTERESTING AND HES GONNA HELP BALANCE THE ROSTER AND AAAAAAAAAAAAAH OMG". Sure, it's cool he has that, but most people trust the developers to do that. The HYPE comes from the thought "OMG IM SO HYPED MEGAMAN IS IN THE GAME BECAUSE HES COOL AND CHARMING AND I GREW UP WITH HIM AND HES A HUGE PART OF MY LIFE".

I think you are misinterpreting "why people like characters" versus "what made us like them and why they stand out in the context of a fighting game".

If you are seriously trying to downplay the base concept of this franchise as an insignificant detail, then I seriously don't know what to say to you.

A character's story is not the "base concept" of Smash Bros. Sheik is really fun to play as, and that wouldn't change if she was her own character, or if she was actually Ganondorf in disguise.

 

[Curious Villager]

If I recall correctly, Rosalina is a pretty popular Mario character, many people always tend to get hyped whenever she shows up in the Mario games. I think she's pretty popular in Japan too. Not sure how requested she was for Smash though...

 

[ChikoLad]

Three words: Wii Fit Trainer. Doesn't get much more charismatic and requested than that.

Wii Fit Trainer's inclusion works because the concept behind her inclusion is that nobody actually asked for her, yet it took us by surprise. And while she doesn't have character in her own game, Sakurai went out of his way to give her one.

@ TumblrFamous : Backstory does not define a characters appeal universally, but it can for some. Rosalina, for example, is only as popular as she is because of her backstory and multi-layered character.

 

[Gunla]

If I recall correctly, Rosalina is a pretty popular Mario character, many people always tend to get hyped whenever she shows up in the Mario games. I think she's pretty popular in Japan too. Not sure how requested she was for Smash though...

From my observations, not as much as say, Waluigi or Bowser Junior, but certainly she was up there. Goes to show that we can't expect every requested character. Like Sakurai trollishly said himself.

 

[?????????????]

From my observations, not as much as say, Waluigi or BJ, but certainly she was up there. Goes to show that we can't expect every requested character. Like Sakurai trollishly said himself.

Um..........................................



Not sure if I would abbreviate Bowser Jr.'s name that way.