Character Discussion Thread

[Lasifer]

That's not lying. That's just withholding information. Can I have an example where he outright lied to keep a secret for a game? (Note: I'm genuinely asking, since I'm not familiar with him. None of the supposed "trolling" that I've been told of has been outright dishonest, and I need to see an example of dishonesty to believe that it's possible that he's lying.)

He pretended Phantom Pain wasn't Metal Gear Solid V for awhile, that count?

 

[Pacack]

He pretended Phantom Pain wasn't Metal Gear Solid V for awhile, that count?

Did he ever say it wasn't, though? (Again, genuinely asking)

 

[Hippopotasauce]

I heard Rhythm Heaven.

 

[Gunla]

It's been a while so my memory's fuzzy, but it was either him or Dedede (I think it was Dedede because of 64) who was planned for Melee in the event of no Fire Emblem characters or an alternative to the 6 clones. The article it comes from isn't from a good source, but what is said in it makes a lot of sense.

You are correct. I believe Dedede was carried over b/c of 64 and Meta Knight was a new idea in Melee from the things I have seen. I'm a little more aware of the Meta Knight situation, but the Balloon Fighter is something I'll need to look into, as I only heard about it a few days ago.

 

[Tepig2000]

I remember reading somewhere that Sakurai considered Ice Climbers, Ballon Fighter, Sukapon and Excitebiker as retros in Melee. Excitebiker was quickly excluded because he could not find a way to make him jump. In the end, Sakurai did end up choosing Ice Climbers because he tought they would be more unique. Or something like that.

 

[Lasifer]

Did he ever say it wasn't, though? (Again, genuinely asking)

No, but you should watch this for yourself. Kojima is crazy. http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/...d-v--the-phantom-pain-joakim-mogren-interview
What's this argument about again?

 

[ChikoLad]

That's not lying. That's just withholding information. Can I have an example where he outright lied to keep a secret for a game? (Note: I'm genuinely asking, since I'm not familiar with him. None of the supposed "trolling" that I've been told of has been outright dishonest, and I need to see an example of dishonesty to believe that it's possible that he's lying.)

• Hideo Kojima, owing to the surely intentional amount of Fan Disservice in later Metal Gear games.
  • In the first Metal Gear, Big Boss tells the player to turn off the game system. Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake refers to a radio frequency on a package, misleading players into thinking it's in the game when in actual fact it's the game package. In Metal Gear Solid, during the Psycho Mantis battle, the screen goes blank with "HIDEO" appearing, as a pun of the "VIDEO" sign that appeared on analog televisions.
  • Kojima took his trolling to a new level with Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, with trailers misleading players into believe they'd be playing Solid Snake, only for players to discover that they'll be playing as Raiden instead for most of the game.
  • Kojima has continued to play what can only be described as a Kansas City Shuffle with English fans surrounding the voice acting of Metal Gear Solid V, since the announcement of Kiefer Sutherland replacing David Hayter as the voice of Big Boss.

Not only does Kojima do it IRL, but he fills the Metal Gear games with fourth wall breaking lies and what not to trick players.

 

[?????????????]

I remember reading somewhere that Sakurai considered Ice Climbers, Ballon Fighter, Sukapon and Excitebiker as retros in Melee. Excitebiker was quickly excluded because he could not find a way to make him jump. In the end, Sakurai did end up choosing Ice Climbers because he tought they would be more unique. Or something like that.

I relooked into this the other day for the purposes of a different argument. If I recall, the retro characters considered before Ice Climbers were Bubbles from Clu Clu Land, Urban Champion, Balloon Fighter, and Excitebiker.

 

[Starcutter]

I heard Rhythm Heaven.

oooh.

*inhales*


you missed it.


sorry.

Spoiler

feel free to bring up anything from the last page though

 

[Lasifer]

Not only does Kojima do it IRL, but he fills the Metal Gear games with fourth wall breaking lies and what not to trick players.

None of that's really lying directly though, and doing it in the games doesn't count, it's part of the game.

 

[Pacack]

I heard Rhythm Heaven.

I was wondering if you were going to show up.

I'm curious. In your opinion, is the Rhythm Girl or Marshal more iconic?

No, but you should watch this for yourself. Kojima is crazy. http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/...d-v--the-phantom-pain-joakim-mogren-interview
What's this argument about again?

Whether it's in Kojima's character to downright lie about Snake being in Smash Bros..

Not only does Kojima do it IRL, but he fills the Metal Gear games with fourth wall breaking lies and what not to trick players.

That's a bit trollish, but to outright lie and say he's not optimistic about something happening and asking Sakurai to include him if he's watching seems sincere to me.

 

[Tepig2000]

I relooked into this the other day for the purposes of a different argument. If I recall, the retro characters considered before Ice Climbers were Bubbles from Clu Clu Land, Urban Champion, Balloon Fighter, and Excitebiker.

Now that you say it, I think that is what I did read. But I remember seeing something about Sukapon.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Now that you say it, I think that is what I did read. But I remember seeing something about Sukapon.

Sakurai said no fighting game characters, therefore deconfirms Sukapon.

 

[ChikoLad]

I was wondering if you were going to show up.

I'm curious. In your opinion, is the Rhythm Girl or Marshal more iconic?

Whether it's in Kojima's character to downright lie about Snake being in Smash Bros..



That's a bit trollish, but to outright lie and say he's not optimistic about something happening and asking Sakurai to include him if he's watching seems sincere to me.

If you've actually seen the interview, he actually laughs before being asked the question.

They guy's a genius and I love him, but he's not a trustworthy PR guy, to me! :V

 

[Hippopotasauce]

I was wondering if you were going to show up.

I'm curious. In your opinion, is the Rhythm Girl or Marshal more iconic?

I don't think any character is really iconic.
I'd almost go to say Wrestler because people actually know who he is.

 

[Tepig2000]

Sakurai said no fighting game characters, therefore deconfirms Sukapon.

Yeah. That what was I did read about it. Poor Sukapon.

 

[Pacack]

Sakurai said no fighting game characters, therefore deconfirms Sukapon.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Sukapon was mentioned specifically by Sakurai as being a character he wasn't going to include for whatever reason. I don't have a source for that, though.

If you've actually seen the interview, he actually laughs before being asked the question.

They guy's a genius and I love him, but he's not a trustworthy PR guy, to me! :V

I would like to see it. Do you have a link, by any chance?

I don't think any character is really iconic.
I'd almost go to say Wrestler because people actually know who he is.

I'd never heard of him except in Smash speculation, myself. Was the meme really all that popular?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I was wondering if you were going to show up.

I'm curious. In your opinion, is the Rhythm Girl or Marshal more iconic?

Whether it's in Kojima's character to downright lie about Snake being in Smash Bros..



That's a bit trollish, but to outright lie and say he's not optimistic about something happening and asking Sakurai to include him if he's watching seems sincere to me.

Sega said the same thing about Sonic. It's basically the same thing, and we have Sonic.

It's not what we think. At least I don't think so.

 

[Gunla]

Sega said the same thing about Sonic. It's basically the same thing, and we have Sonic.

It's not what we think. At least I don't think so.

I certainly think it could be foreshadowing Snake in typical Trolljima fashion, but with only one or two comments we can't exactly tell his full meaning. Was it sarcastic? Truthful?
I'm glad people are getting that it could mean either.

 

[Starcutter]

I'd never heard of him except in Smash speculation, myself. Was the meme really all that popular?

it's how I was introduced to rhythm heaven.


also he had a cameo on the wii U already.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sakurai said no fighting game characters, therefore deconfirms Sukapon.

>Does not want fighting game characters.
>Includes characters that borrow elements from fighting games.

 

[Pacack]

Sega said the same thing about Sonic. It's basically the same thing, and we have Sonic.

It's not what we think. At least I don't think so.

Not as pessimistically. SEGA essentially just made a no-comment from what I understand.

I certainly think it could be foreshadowing Snake in typical Trolljima fashion, but with only one or two comments we can't exactly tell his full meaning. Was it sarcastic? Truthful?
I'm glad people are getting that it could mean either.

I know that I definitely interpreted Kojima's comment as a legitimate disconfirmation, but I'm not familiar enough with Kojima's antics to know for sure.

it's how I was introduced to rhythm heaven.


also he had a cameo on the wii U already.

I must've not been paying attention to the memes around then.

 

[Gunla]

>Does not want fighting game characters.
>Includes characters that borrow elements from fighting games.

I don't think it's going to be a big deal that Sukapon got DCed a while ago and people ignored his actual origin. I saw some gameplay of JMF a while ago, and yes, that's a bona fide fighting game.

I know that I definitely interpreted Kojima's comment as a legitimate disconfirmation, but I'm not familiar enough with Kojima's antics to know for sure.

He's... a big, big troll when it comes to his antics. Like, worse than Trollzama. He'll hide characters, make weird references, and then there's the MGSV stuff. Moby &%^$ Studios.

 

[Pacack]

I don't think it's going to be a big deal that Sukapon got DCed a while ago and people ignored his actual origin. I saw some gameplay of JMF a while ago, and yes, that's a bona fide fighting game.

I've played it and finished it. It is indeed a fighting game. I just has the kind of Nintendo charm that you wouldn't expect from one. Sukapon's a comedy robot that had to be reprogrammed to be made into a fighting robot when this guy's partner ended up stealing the other robots for world domination and all that jazz (though, of course, he ends "waking up" or something along those lines at the end, and the scientists go back to normal). While other robots are given a brief description of each robots abilities ("has good defense" and "has a very strong uppercut" and whatnot), Sukapon just has the description "Likes making people laugh". Then the enemies are really wacky too. The first boss is a robotic ostrich.

It's such a shame that he'll never make it in. Joy Mech Fight had so much ridiculous charm.

 

[Deleted member]

He's... a big, big troll when it comes to his antics. Like, worse than Trollzama. He'll hide characters, make weird references, and then there's the MGSV stuff. Moby &%^$ Studios.

I'm surprised people haven't caught on to his trolling since MGS2.

No wonder Sakurai & Kojima are friends, they're great trolling buddies!

 

[Pacack]

He's... a big, big troll when it comes to his antics. Like, worse than Trollzama. He'll hide characters, make weird references, and then there's the MGSV stuff. Moby &%^$ Studios.

The thing that's confusing me is the lack of precedence for his outright lying (for the record, I just have the text quote. I don't know where in that interview Kojima said anything) to conceal something. He leaves out details and whatnot, but he doesn't seem to downright lie.

 

[Glaciacott]

I thought Kojima said that he doesn't think it's likely. Not sure about his trolling history, but I know that if Sakurai said something of that sort I wouldn't see it as trolling.

I say brace yourselves just in case. Assuming Snake might just not be in it means you begin to accept it if it does happen that he is cut, and are pleasantly surprise if it doesn't. Not that I personally am affected since I have several times mentioned Snake should be cut, but I respect what it's like to have a character you like be in danger, and really the best thing to do for the sake of emotions and hype is to assume the worst until proven wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

He leaves out details and whatnot, but he doesn't seem to downright lie.

I dunno, how many times has he said "I'm going to stop working on Metal Gear games after this one" ?

Plus before the MGSV trailer, he said "We have not yet finished with Solid Snake, despite the fact that I wanted to let him die at Guns of the Patriots"

There has been times where Kojima has lied.

 

[Pacack]

I dunno, how many times has he said "I'm going to stop working on Metal Gear games after this one" ?

Plus before the MGSV trailer, he said "We have not yet finished with Solid Snake, despite the fact that I wanted to let him die at Guns of the Patriots"

There has been times where Kojima has lied.

Thank you. You're the first one to mention downright lying.

I'm leaning towards him being serious, but I could see it going either way if he's lied about stuff before.

 

[UltimateWario]

I'd like to see a source proving that Sonic threw a wrench in the works of Brawl's character roster, because I've never seen anything saying Sonic was the result of other characters being cut. All I've heard is that he was a last minute addition, which led me to believe the roster was final before Sonic's inclusion, but they then added him in due to his demand and relevance to Nintendo. Unless you can prove that Sonic did force other characters out of the game (which I HIGHLY doubt - how the heck could a character like Sonic prevent MULTIPLE characters from being forced out, including a veteran like Mewtwo, who likely could be implemented easily? If modders could do it, Sakurai and his team could have done it like it was nothing),

During or after Melee, Sakurai stated that he traded in DeDeDe (who would be a completely original character) for the six clones we got. Besides Mewtwo, there were (surprise) six clones waiting to be discovered in Brawl's files. Sonic was added as an extremely late-term addition, and, (again, surprise!) character's don't just make themselves. Sonic had to be programmed in with all of his animations, attacks, graphics, his stage, music, voice acting from Griffith, all at the last second. The majority of Brawl's production had already gone to the Subspace Emissary, so guess what happened when Sonic came marching in? The least important characters in the roster got canned.

Also, fun-fact, modders didn't "easily" implement Mewtwo. It took over 700 hours of work to make the Project M Mewtwo look and feel right. It would obviously take less time for Sakurai and his team, but it's still not something that's just done willy-nilly. If anything, you can look at Sonic's inclusion for evidence.

I don't have a source because Sakurai isn't going to come out and say "Yeah, Sonic ****ed a lot of stuff over for Brawl, but ooooooh weelllll". The pieces are all there, you just have to put them together. It's not hard to see.

I'm viewing this comment as biased. I won't argue with your opinion of the character's portrayal, as that's your opinion, and my username should be enough to tell you what I think of Sonic's portrayal in Brawl anyway.

I don't think you know what biased means. I've never once said "SAWNIK IS DUMB HE SHOULDN'T HAVE GAWT IN" or anything remotely close to it. I'm saying that Sonic's inclusion (the way it was handled, rather) is a baaaaaaad thing and it shouldn't happen again, ever, because it caused a LOT of characters to be cut from the roster, one of which is rather sorely missed, so much so that he's the single most requested character for the next Smash.

If anything, I should be calling you biased. You said it yourself in bold. My quarrel isn't with Sonic, his character, or whatever else the ****. It's with the problems it caused. The fact that I'm upset with the way Sonic sucked in Brawl should show that I'm not biased against him. I hate that so many people (my fiance included) wanted a character and he was trash. If he would've been in earlier, there probably would've been more (remixed) songs, a better stage, more Subspace involvement, and most importantly, likely better balancing.

Also, your "Rayman was a non-entity" claim is just objectively wrong, as I already proved. I will repeat, the Starfox franchise has a global sales number of about 11 million TODAY. The Rayman franchise had 10.5 million global sales AS OF DECEMBER 7TH, 2001. That is far from a non-entity, especially since Rayman 1 and 2 were the only Rayman games in existence at that time (as well as different versions of the games, and an educational spin off or two). You still have Rayman 3, Arena, M, Raving Rabbids, Origins, Legends, handheld spin-offs, digtial copies of afforementioned games, and mobile games to take into account, as well as later ports of his older games, to reach today's global sales (which VGChartz has a very inaccurate number for right now, as it doesn't account for the digital sales, and doesn't even have numbers for some games). Rayman is literally the game that put Ubisoft on the map. Without Rayman, franchises like Prince of Persia and Assassin's Creed would never have come to be, as Rayman raked in the money for Ubisoft.

So it made a lot of money? For a company that has next to nothing to do with Nintendo? We're comparing Rayman and Sonic, not Rayman and Snake.

I'm not exactly a source of social video game knowledge or anything close to it, but scarcely do I meet hardcore Rayman fans or anyone who genuinely enjoys the character himself. The only Rayman fans I've met are the ones whose experiences originated in Origins and Legends, and I knew next to nothing about Rayman before that point besides the fact that there were games out at some point and I never heard anything about them.

Either way, though (and if I'm wrong, then so be it, woe is me and such, I know little about the no-limbed dog-thing), Rayman is nowhere near the level of Sonic's popularity, which is the only reason the previous exception (one that had a negative impact on the end result) was made. So, for the whooooooooooole reason this debate started, last minute characters are terrible ideas in general, and you're better off saving them for the next game.

God knows Sonic appearing for the first time in Smash on the WiiU would move some consoles.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My final thoughts on the Kojima interview, at least for right now, are that it could go either way. He could be in, he could be out.

I however don't really buy that Snake is gone. I just don't. Call me biased, but we know the circumstances of his inclusion in the first place, and we know of Kojima's gaming philosophy.

It would also make A LOT of sense for Sakurai to have contacted Kojima and ask him about Snake's fate. Kojima knows something that we don't. I'm almost sure of it.

Don't forget, these guys are friends. I get that business is business, but that clearly didn't matter the first time we got Snake. If Sakurai wants Snake in Smash (and there isn't any reason to believe he wouldn't), then he'll be in Smash.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

In all honesty, I think we might get Snake for Metal Gear Solid V. Quite possibly, Sakurai decided to hold back Yoshi until the Summer, and reveal Snake instead in response to the interview.

 

[Arcadenik]

>Does not want fighting game characters.
>Includes characters that borrow elements from fighting games.

I think Sakurai does this because he wants to add characters from different game genres in Smash and make them fit whatever fighting game character archetypes he thinks they might fall in without resorting to adding fighting game characters.

 

[Sehnsucht]

In all honesty, I think we might get Snake for Metal Gear Solid V. Quite possibly, Sakurai decided to hold back Yoshi until the Summer, and reveal Snake instead in response to the interview.

Well, technically, the Snake from MGSV (Big Boss, AKA Naked Snake) is not the same character in Brawl (Solid Snake)***. Although Brawl Snake's design is apparently a fusion of Solid and Naked.

We'll most probably get Solid Snake again (as per the Smash imagining); if we are to get noticeable design elements from MGSV, then I would envision a fusion between the designs of Solid Snake and (MGSV) Big Boss.

***What's more, Solid Snake i(and younger Big Boss) is voiced by David Hayter, whereas in MGSV, Big Boss will be voiced by Keifer Sutherland. Not that this matters much in the grand scheme, I'd imagine.

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

While i don't expect Rhythm Heaven to get a charcter i bet my soul it will get a stage

 

[Protom]

A rythm heaven stage would be really boss.
As for a character, I personally would prefer wrestler, but I dont expect one.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

For the development of Melee, Dedede was considered before meta night. so he would be the one added first.

What do you have to say to that?

Well, that's a no-brainer since Meta Knight's popularity only really took off after Melee.

Furthermore, Meta Knight was arguably more of a villain than Dedede pre-Melee, Dedede was only ever really a bad guy in the original game, where as he was corrupted in the rest of his appearances, and was even a good guy in Adventure. Meta Knight posed a much bigger threat to Dreamland in his most recent appearance before Melee, which was Revenge of Meta Knight. Meta Knight only acquired his anti-hero role after Melee.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I would honestly be so relieved is Snake was revealed next week. I would feel so much better.

Maybe because it would be tough to advertise him in a Direct? Because he has no games coming out and really isn't going to get too much coverage.

But maybe he'll get a trailer on the site... Here's hoping.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I would honestly be so relieved is Snake was revealed next week. I would feel so much better.

Maybe because it would be tough to advertise him in a Direct? Because he has no games coming out and really isn't going to get too much coverage.

But maybe he'll get a trailer on the site... Here's hoping.

I think you'll have to wait a long time for that. Sorry.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I would honestly be so relieved is Snake was revealed next week. I would feel so much better.

Maybe because it would be tough to advertise him in a Direct? Because he has no games coming out and really isn't going to get too much coverage.

But maybe he'll get a trailer on the site... Here's hoping.

I'm very sorry, but I still don't think Sakurai's ready for a third non Nintendo character just yet. If he is, I'd much rather see a second sonic character or PacMan, no offense