Character Discussion Thread

[Starcutter]

I'm going to make a roster, be right back


it will blow your mind.

 

[Croph]

I'm afraid that I don't read Japanese, so the link is not as helpful as I'd like. I'm not sure Google Translate would be the most useful tool, in this instance (but I'll give it a go anyway).

You're correct that we can't simply assume Sakurai would change his mind on anyone, despite the case of Villager. But it does set a precedent that cannot simply be dismissed either. I guess the most rational course would be to take Sakurai to his word unless told or shown otherwise. Even so, I will continue to look into Sukapon's case, as I am finding myself further intrigued by this topic.

Here's another resource that I believe has some translation:

http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Stor...ing-a-comprehensive-list-of-unused-characters

There's a section on Sukapon. Just ctrl + f and type "sukapon" if you don't feel like scrolling through. I think a couple of fans asked the question regarding Sukapon in Smash.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Here's another resource that I believe has some translation:

http://forum.starmen.net/forum/Stor...ing-a-comprehensive-list-of-unused-characters

There's a section on Sukapon. Just ctrl + f and type "sukapon" if you don't feel like scrolling through. I think a couple of fans asked the question regarding Sukapon in Smash.

Thanks a bunch. Here are the provided notes on the original Japanese comments, for reference:

Spoiler

Sukapon was “planned” at some point for Melee (actually, it’s not totally clear. It could have been (but probably wasn’t) the first Smash), but the team didn’t go through with it. Sakurai tells two fans that they probably shouldn’t expect to see Sukapon in the future. In an earlier comment, he said it was “doubtful” that the game would make it overseas.

(note: Sukapon is from the Japan-only NES game “Joy Mech Fight”, a fighting game with robots)

Interesting that he might once have been considered in earlier Smashes. If he was dropped, then it might put a hamper on his future prospects - that, and in how he wasn't included or developed for Brawl. But there is a precedent for changes of mind, so perhaps we might see him in a future game, whether in SSB4 or beyond (or we might not).

If he can't be playable, then he could merit an Assist Trophy slot; in Brawl, about half of the ATs belonged to non-playable series, and a large portion of that consisted of retro/classic/obscure characters. I'd expect that the SSB4 trophies would adhere to a similar balance, whether or not some or all of the ATs are system-exclusive.

 

[ChikoLad]

And it only caused several characters to be scrapped (****ing MEWTWO of all of them), shoddy-at-BEST Sonic representation, and the character himself was awful.

-slow clap- Great example.

Great example of bias is what I see in this post.

Literally the only point of me posting that image was me responding to the "Sakurai wouldn't add a character at the last minute" claim, and I was just emphasising that he literally did just that. I wasn't saying anything about what I thought of Sonic's representation in Brawl. That's a whole different discussion entirely.

 

[Starcutter]

my roster is almost done, but I couldn't find an icon for someone so I have to make it myself.

so brb


It'll blow your miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind

 

[Morbi]

Great example of bias is what I see in this post.

Literally the only point of me posting that image was me responding to the "Sakurai wouldn't add a character at the last minute" claim, and I was just emphasising that he literally did just that. I wasn't saying anything about what I thought of Sonic's representation in Brawl. That's a whole different discussion entirely.

I honestly don't see that precedent as relevant currently; as someone will surely mention, the circumstances regarding his inclusion were more significant than his actual inclusion. If it was a different character, they might not have been added in late. I don't see Smash 4 being developed in the same fashion as Brawl as it is.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Great example of bias is what I see in this post.

Literally the only point of me posting that image was me responding to the "Sakurai wouldn't add a character at the last minute" claim, and I was just emphasising that he literally did just that. I wasn't saying anything about what I thought of Sonic's representation in Brawl. That's a whole different discussion entirely.

While it is true that he did that, the fact still stands that it is highly doubtful that Sakurai would delay the game simply for Rayman. RAYMAN of all characters.

Heck, I think Rayman is cool. But he isn't the character that would delay Smash Bros. Quite frankly, now that Sonic is already in, I don't think there is a single character that would ever manage to do that again.

 

[Pacack]

I just got here. I don't suppose you guys have been discussing the Kojima comment, are you? I'm curious what the avid Snake fans on here think it means.

 

[Morbi]

I just got here. I don't suppose you guys have been discussing the Kojima comment, are you? I'm curious what the avid Snake fans on here think it means.

I apologize, I have been away from the forums for a couple of weeks; could you perhaps link the comment? I am interested (as an avid Snake fan).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I just got here. I don't suppose you guys have been discussing the Kojima comment, are you? I'm curious what the avid Snake fans on here think it means.

Nothing. SEGA said the same thing about Sonic, and he's in the game.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I just got here. I don't suppose you guys have been discussing the Kojima comment, are you? I'm curious what the avid Snake fans on here think it means.

From my prospective, I see it as just simply dodging a question.

 

[Gunla]

I just got here. I don't suppose you guys have been discussing the Kojima comment, are you? I'm curious what the avid Snake fans on here think it means.

Let me sum it up like this...
Kojima was challenged by random person!
Kojima used Question Dodge!
Person used Snake Question!
Person now believes that misleading comment=Snake disconfirmed!
Honestly, using a Pokemon allusion works best here. Because that quote is very misleading.

 

[Morbi]

From my prospective, I see it as just simply dodging a question.

Dodging a question? I just looked it up... apparently he literally states that he doesn't think it is likely (which would be odd, as the license should have already been acquired) and afterwards he asks Sakurai to use Snake. I cannot comprehend how that is an allusion to dodging a question personally.

 

[UltimateWario]

Great example of bias is what I see in this post.

Literally the only point of me posting that image was me responding to the "Sakurai wouldn't add a character at the last minute" claim, and I was just emphasising that he literally did just that. I wasn't saying anything about what I thought of Sonic's representation in Brawl. That's a whole different discussion entirely.

And I'm saying that it caused a lot of trouble for an end result that wasn't satisfactory. Brawl's development was already riddled with crap and bad decisions, throwing Sonic in at the last second only caused more problems, to the point that a completely original and popular character was canned. Don't call me biased because I want the best out of a Smash game. This has nothing to do with Sonic, and everything to do with what happened the last time we got a last-minute character. It's not a situation I want to be repeated.

As Jonesy (sorry, just finished reading Dreamcatcher) pointed out, this is Rayman, not Sonic. Rayman was practically a non-entity before his recent, more popular titles.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Dodging a question? I just looked it up... apparently he literally states that he doesn't think it is likely (which would be odd, as the license should have already been acquired) and afterwards he asks Sakurai to use Snake. I cannot comprehend how that is an allusion to dodging a question personally.

Basically, if Snake is in the game, Kojima couldn't say he was even if he wanted to. He would be under contract. So basically, the answer would always need to be ambiguous. It would never be a flat out yes.

SEGA said something similar. When asked about Sonic in Smash Wii U/3DS, they said that they hoped he would be in. They already knew he was in. They dodged the question.

Plus Kojima is a troll. So you can't take that head on.

Now that I think about it, I think this might mean the exact opposite. Or maybe I'm being optimistic.

Kojima says, "I don't think it's likely". He would know at this point if he were in or not. If he had nothing to hide, why wouldn't he just say "I was never asked?"

I mean, if Kojima and Sakurai are such great friends, wouldn't Sakurai have asked, "Oh hey! You want Snake still?!"

Doesn't make any sense.

 

[Gunla]

For me, that whole quote can mean one of two things:
-Kojima's actually being serious and he's saying that he has no idea and isn't optimistic on Snake's return.
Or...
-Kojima's a gigantic troll, and wants to mislead people to give out an element of surprise, given he is returning.
His response can be interpreted as either as explicitly saying "Please Use Snake" has a bit of a sarcastic tone to me. Either option is possible, but we can't really assume either statement right now. Though I believe the latter is the likely result here.

 

[Morbi]

Basically, if Snake is in the game, Kojima couldn't say he was even if he wanted to. He would be under contract. So basically, the answer would always need to be ambiguous. It would never be a flat out yes.

SEGA said something similar. When asked about Sonic in Smash Wii U/3DS, they said that they hoped he would be in. They already knew he was in. They dodged the question.

Plus Kojima is a troll. So you can't take that head on.

Of course, I don't necessarily believe that this discredits Snake; but dodging a question? That is certainly not what happened. "No comment" or "I am not entirely sure" would be dodging the question. Literally stating that he doesn't think it is likely in conjunction with "asking" Sakurai to use his character is CLEARLY an allusion to the notion that Snake isn't likely to return. It honestly cannot be interpreted any other way. That being said, I still think Snake is in the game (that doesn't change the fact of the matter, this is overt evidence against his inclusion).

It is as you said, he wouldn't directly state he is in the game. The approach was just very odd and misleading.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Of course, I don't necessarily believe that this discredits Snake; but dodging a question? That is certainly not what happened. "No comment" or "I am not entirely sure" would be dodging the question. Literally stating that he doesn't think it is likely in conjunction with "asking" Sakurai to use his character is CLEARLY an allusion to the notion that Snake isn't likely to return. It honestly cannot be interpreted any other way. That being said, I still think Snake is in the game (that doesn't change the fact of the matter, this is overt evidence against his inclusion).

It is as you said, he wouldn't directly state he is in the game. The approach was just very odd and misleading.

Exactly. As was the ruse of Moby **** Studios for Ground Zeroes and the like. Kojima isn't a straightforward guy.

Plus, as I said after you quoted, the whole thing doesn't make any sense, and when juxtaposed to the SEGA interview, it seems pretty similar.

Create confusion, create pessimism to then create hype when said character is revealed. It makes a ton of sense.

Plus, really, why would Sakurai maintain Sonic but cut out Snake without saying anything? I find that so unbelievably doubtful...I mean they're friends. That would be a **** move.

 

[Arcanir]

Plus, really, why would Sakurai maintain Sonic but cut out Snake without saying anything? I find that so unbelievably doubtful...I mean they're friends. That would be a **** move.

I get the feeling if that ever happened it'd be because of business issues on the part of the company heads above them. I can't see Sakurai denying Snake from Kojima, as mentioned they're friends and I'm sure Sakurai would at least go far enough to try and get him back, but I could see Konami or Nintendo doing so if they don't feel for whatever reason it doesn't suit their needs.

Admittedly though, I'm skeptical of that outcome, but that is a way that Snake could've been cut despite the same not being extended to Sonic.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Why would Sakurai maintain Sonic but cut out Snake without saying anything? I find that so unbelievably doubtful...I mean they're friends. That would be a **** move.

Because Snake isn't even 1% as famous as Sonic. We also aren't getting a Nintendo port for the next MGS game.

 

[Pacack]

I agree with Morbid in that it's extremely odd to comment that way. Dodging a question would be something more like "Oh, it could happen" or "Maybe".

And on why would Sakurai keep Sonic and not Snake...Sonic was probably the most highly requested newcomer of all time. The ability to fight a Mario vs. Sonic match probably sold Brawl to millions of people on its own. He's the kind of third party that you just don't let go of. Nintendo might've said no because they can't afford advertising a character that wouldn't sell their struggling system. Or maybe Kojima's son lost interest in Smash and Kojima just doesn't care as much about Snake's being in Smash anymore (even though he'd be happy to see it happen still). There are plenty of reasonable explanations for Snake not being added this time around.

 

[Starcutter]

OPINIONS?

also, If there's someone you think I left out, feel free to tell me. I often forget to add people sometimes....

 

[BluePikmin11]

OPINIONS?

also, If there's someone you think I left out, feel free to tell me. I often forget to add people sometimes....

Oh cool.
It's a nice "prediction roster" with Marshal, Kamek, and Waddle Dee as bonuses.
I feel like this won't be our final roster however.

 

[NickerBocker]

Maybe, just maybe, a new character from Konami will be included?

Ya its a long shot.

 

[Starcutter]

Oh cool.
It's a nice "prediction roster" with Marshal, Kamek, and Waddle Dee as bonuses.
I feel like this won't be our final roster however.

Waddle Dee has the least chances of those three tbh.


EDIT: also, you're the one to talk

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Because Snake isn't even 1% as famous as Sonic. We also aren't getting a Nintendo port for the next MGS game.

That seriously means nothing, nor is it true. MGS is the pinnacle of stealth gaming.

I guess the reason Snake got in for Brawl was because of the MGS IV port...oh wait.

His games on Nintendo consoles didn't mean anything before, and they won't mean anything now.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe, just maybe, a new character from Konami will be included?

Ya its a long shot.

It's much faster to add Snake in the short run.

 

[Chase]

Waddle Dee has the least chances of those three tbh.

Au contraire.

Kamek definitely has the least chance. He defies the "Hero-Hero-Villain" pattern that has been used in most Smash games. Baby Mario would most likely get in before him (unless he's atop Yoshi).

 

[Starcutter]

Au contraire.

Kamek definitely has the least chance. He defies the "Hero-Hero-Villain" pattern that has been used in most Smash games. Baby Mario would most likely get in before him (unless he's atop Yoshi).

um, no. nonononono. no.

that logic doesn't exsist.

by that logic, Anthony Higgs would be in before Ridley. (or the hunters, but they don't count)

 

[Chase]

um, no. nonononono. no.

that logic doesn't exsist.

by that logic, Anthony Higgs would be in before Ridley. (or the hunters, but they don't count)

Zero Suit Samus fills that niche.

EDIT: I wasn't saying that there was no way Kamek could be in, I saying it's highly unlikely, but a possibility. Hence why a prediction roster is not best place to put him.

 

[Pacack]

OPINIONS?

also, If there's someone you think I left out, feel free to tell me. I often forget to add people sometimes....

I would be ridiculously satisfied with this roster if it had Pac-Man. Heck, even without Pac-Man it's pretty good.

 

[Louie G.]

There's no way that Waddle Dee ha a lesser chance than Marshall and Kamek.
That being said I wouldn't complain if Marshall and Kamek made it in.

 

[Starcutter]

Zero Suit Samus fills that niche.

that still doesn't show that the reason the villian is added after two protagonists is due to PATTERN

it's just that so far there's been a more important side character before the villian(Zelda), or said side character is incredibly easy to make(Luigi).


also, Kirby breaks this theory.

There's no way that Waddle Dee ha a lesser chance than Marshall and Kamek.
That being said I wouldn't complain if Marshall and Kamek made it in.

Chandelure has blinded you.

Come towards the light of Kamekism and you will be healed.

 

[Pacack]

Marshal has like a 5% chance compared to Kamek's, like, 20%.

 

[Chase]

that still doesn't show that the reason the villian is added after two protagonists is due to PATTERN

it's just that so far there's been a more important side character before the villian(Zelda), or said side character is incredibly easy to make(Luigi).


also, Kirby breaks this theory.

Meta Knight isn't a consistent villain; most of the time his intentions are good (Squeak Squad, Adventure). The only time I remember him actually being evil is Revenge of Meta Knight. King Dedede is much more of a consistent villain than Meta Knight is.

 

[Starcutter]

I would be ridiculously satisfied with this roster if it had Pac-Man. Heck, even without Pac-Man it's pretty good.

Apologies, but I aint adding Pac-Man unless he is confirmed.

....in which case I'll grin and bear it.

Marshal has like a 15% chance compared to Kamek's, like, 45%.

Fixed

 

[BluePikmin11]

Apologies, but I aint adding Pac-Man unless he is confirmed.

....in which case I'll grin and bear it.

Fixed

Kamek is the villain role more in the SMB series or Yoshi's Island series? Which is it? @_@

 

[Pacack]

Apologies, but I aint adding Pac-Man unless he is confirmed.

....in which case I'll grin and bear it.

I respect your opinion for sure.

 

[Morbi]

There's no way that Waddle Dee ha a lesser chance than Marshall and Kamek.
That being said I wouldn't complain if Marshall and Kamek made it in.

This. I mean, I seriously googled Marshall Nintendo and nothing relevant appeared. So I proceeded to add "character" to the end of the search... and still nothing. Not to mention the user had to actually make the icon for him as it wasn't already speculated for by any extension of the imagination. Who is this Marshall? What franchise is he from?

 

[Gunla]

I'm seeing some overrating and some blindness here....
Let's just agree to disagree. About BWD, about Kamek, about whatever WTF is going to be thrown out. We'll see who is going to come out as the right predictor soon enough.

Though on Marshall, I'm going to freely say that I doubt his chances even if what Morbid did was correct.
EDIT: Same result.