Character Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

You're not really looking at Pac-Man and Mii's merits Kenith.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Honestly, I'm trying to be realistic here. I'm bracing myself for the inevitable disappointment that not all of Mewtwo, Palutena, Ridley and K.Rool may get in. It's something that has a chance of not happening.

Pac Man and Mii's were pretty likely additions as it is. This isn't something that should be discounted. If you want to properly speculate, then it would be wise to consider everything...even the stuff you don't want to admit is likely.

I've done the math, and I'll admit i'm making a whole lot of assumptions, but those all have a basis for them actually happening. There are characters that a lot of people would like to see on here, and I will not say which ones, but I can almost guarantee that we will NOT be seeing them. Simply because of the math and the evidence that points towards particular characters.

While not on Sonic's level, Rayman is extremely popular. Rayman was considered on the level of Crash and Spyro, and was a character people wanted for PS-All Stars. He was never a Sony mascot, but his first two games were best sellers on Playstation platforms, and achieved even more sales on other systems, as well as countless ports and remakes. Rayman has sold less in recent times, but only because the franchise is still going through it's revival, since the Rabbids took over for a while. Rayman is considered quite iconic, and would be a perfect fit for Smash Bros. He's way more iconic than many of Nintendo's own franchises (Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Starfox, etc).

And it wouldn't be hard to give him a moveset, as there is almost a full Smash moveset for him in Rayman Legends.

That may be so, but consider who he has to compete with: Pac Man and Solid Snake, two characters who completely outshine him.

Does he have a chance for future Smash games? Sure. This one? Most likely not, and they certainly will not delay the game for him.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Too bad Sega said he won't be used in any Sonic game in the future.

Which I'm honestly kind of sad about, I was starting to like Big, he made me laugh in Sonic Chronicles and I played as him often in Sega All-Star Racing.

 

[Morbi]

Honestly, I'm trying to be realistic here. I'm bracing myself for the inevitable disappointment that not all of Mewtwo, Palutena, Ridley and K.Rool may get in. It's something that has a chance of not happening.

Pac Man and Mii's were pretty likely additions as it is. This isn't something that should be discounted. If you want to properly speculate, then it would be wise to consider everything...even the stuff you don't want to admit is likely.

I've done the math, and I'll admit i'm making a whole lot of assumptions, but those all have a basis for them actually happening. There are characters that a lot of people would like to see on here, and I will not say which ones, but I can almost guarantee that we will NOT be seeing them. Simply because of the math and the evidence that points towards particular characters.


That may be so, but consider who he has to compete with: Pac Man and Solid Snake, two characters who completely outshine him.

Does he have a chance for future Smash games? Sure. This one? Most likely not, and they certainly will not delay the game for him.

I feel the same way, albeit we must exclude the Mewtwo portion as I adamantly believe that he is already in the game.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Some very interesting news:

Earlier today, I believe, Michel Ancel, the creator of the Rayman franchise, and the Rayman Legends dev team, held a Q&A session over on Twitch. They've been answering a bunch of cool questions about Rayman lore and what not.

I visit a Rayman forum, and the guys there composed a list of questions for the live stream. One such question was for Ancel's comments on Rayman being in Smash Bros. Unfortunately, I missed the entire thing. So as of now, I do not have Ancel's direct quote. However, he did respond to the question, and this is one of the forum goer's paraphrasing of it:

This makes me incredibly happy, Ancel wants Rayman in Smash.

I would sign that petition as many times as it takes.

I don't even care if the game got delayed like with Sonic, Rayman is so damn worth it.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

While not on Sonic's level, Rayman is extremely popular. Rayman was considered on the level of Crash and Spyro, and was a character people wanted for PS-All Stars. He was never a Sony mascot, but his first two games were best sellers on Playstation platforms, and achieved even more sales on other systems, as well as countless ports and remakes. Rayman has sold less in recent times, but only because the franchise is still going through it's revival, since the Rabbids took over for a while. Rayman is considered quite iconic, and would be a perfect fit for Smash Bros. He's way more iconic than many of Nintendo's own franchises (Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Starfox, etc).

And it wouldn't be hard to give him a moveset, as there is almost a full Smash moveset for him in Rayman Legends.

Rayman is very iconic, and believe me when I say that I'd love to see him in, but he's really not worth trying to fit into the game now from Sakurai's perspective. The only reason Sonic was included mid-development was because of the insane demand for him, he made the Ridley fanbase look like the current Geno fanbase. Sonic was simply on a whole other level than any other potential character could dream of, he's probably one of the few characters who has single-handedly sold a good chunk of copies by just being in. Rayman is just not worth trying to add mid-development now.

 

[Kenith]

You're not really looking at Pac-Man and Mii's merits Kenith.

I know, because there aren't any. Especially for Miis. It would create way more problems than it's worth.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I feel the same way, albeit we must exclude the Mewtwo portion as I adamantly believe that he is already in the game.

Considering the Palutena leak, I'm just about convinced to say that we're getting at least Mewtwo and Palutena. That makes me feel good for at least one of Ridley and K.Rool...but I'm inclined to have more faith in Ridley if I'm being honest.

I'm just hoping Sakurai doesn't pack in more characters that "you'll all like eventually!". NO. ADD CHARACTERS PEOPLE ASKED FOR. PLEASE.

 

[Morbi]

I know, because there aren't any. Especially for Miis. It would create way more problems than it's worth.

Dat confirmation bias! I can see your perspective, but that is (of course) assuming that we actually know how the Miis would be implemented.

 

[Kenith]

Dat confirmation bias! I can see your perspective, but that is (of course) assuming that we actually know how the Miis would be implemented.

Ugh, you're already patronizing me? How is confirmation bias even relevant here??

Considering the Palutena leak, I'm just about convinced to say that we're getting at least Mewtwo and Palutena. That makes me feel good for at least one of Ridley and K.Rool...but I'm inclined to have more faith in Ridley if I'm being honest. I'm just hoping Sakurai doesn't pack in more characters that "you'll all like eventually!". NO. ADD CHARACTERS PEOPLE ASKED FOR. PLEASE.

You never know. There could be no more newcomers after Little Mac! That would suck.
Even Mewtwo isn't guaranteed. There's no telling.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You never know. There could be no more newcomers after Little Mac! That would suck.
Even Mewtwo isn't guaranteed. There's no telling.

No. Logically there will be more newcomers.

They have E3, the biggest gaming event of the year coming up in 4 months. They have a little less than a year to convince people to want this game, because I'll tell you right now, they haven't done a very good job of hyping this game up. They spent the first few months messing around, and besides a character here or there, there was little to be excited about after the debut trailer.

Here we are now. There are still about 7-8 months until the projected release date. We might get at least 7 more newcomers at most. I'm estimating 2-3 newbies at E3, and then there's one before E3, and then 2 more unless they get revealed at a more rapid pace. That would maintain hype.

They're not done, but there isn't any way to determine how many more we've got coming.

 

[ChikoLad]

Rayman is very iconic, and believe me when I say that I'd love to see him in, but he's really not worth trying to fit into the game now from Sakurai's perspective. The only reason Sonic was included mid-development was because of the insane demand for him, he made the Ridley fanbase look like the current Geno fanbase. Sonic was simply on a whole other level than any other potential character could dream of, he's probably one of the few characters who has single-handedly sold a good chunk of copies by just being in. Rayman is just not worth trying to add mid-development now.

I wasn't so much trying to say he has a good chance as much as I was just letting it be known that he is iconic.

To be honest though, I think he deserves it way more than Pac-man, at least. And I kind of want him as a cool European representative. But I'll stick to begging for Layton...

Spoiler

...and Reggie.

 

[Kenith]

No. Logically there will be more newcomers.
They have E3, the biggest gaming event of the year coming up in 4 months. They have a little less than a year to convince people to want this game, because I'll tell you right now, they haven't done a very good job of hyping this game up. They spent the first few months messing around, and besides a character here or there, there was little to be excited about after the debut trailer.
Here we are now. There are still about 7-8 months until the projected release date. We might get at least 7 more newcomers at most. I'm estimating 2-3 newbies at E3, and then there's one before E3, and then 2 more unless they get revealed at a more rapid pace. That would maintain hype.
They're not done, but there isn't any way to determine how many more we've got coming.

That's what I mean. We don't know. Logically it is guaranteed to have at least one more, but logic didn't get us Rosalina and WFT.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Rayman? No, he's not memorable enough. I'd prefer Krystal, Tails, Chrom, Mii, Pautena, and Dixie Kong. We don't need Rayman.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

That's what I mean. We don't know. Logically it is guaranteed to have at least one more, but logic didn't get us Rosalina and WFT.

Determining who we get and how many are two completely different entities.

It's easier to predict who we'll get. While there are characters that we won't expect (or didn't want to see, because Rosalina DOES make sense in hindsight) that doesn't mean that all of them will be unexpected.

Adding only one or two more newcomers would be the death of hype for Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS. Absolutely undeniable stuff right there. With the current newcomer pool...I would be beyond disappointed.

Like I said, I'm actually hoping the rest of the newcomers are ones we expect. I would not be surprised to see Chrom next month. Once E3 rolls around, we'll have a better picture of what the roster will look like.

We're just going to have to wait and see. But mark my words, we're going to get at least 10 newcomers. Anything less than that means death to the Wii U and for this Smash Bros. in my opinion.

 

[Kenith]

Determining who we get and how many are two completely different entities.

It's easier to predict who we'll get. While there are characters that we won't expect (or didn't want to see, because Rosalina DOES make sense in hindsight) that doesn't mean that all of them will be unexpected.

Adding only one or two more newcomers would be the death of hype for Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS. Absolutely undeniable stuff right there. With the current newcomer pool...I would be beyond disappointed.

Like I said, I'm actually hoping the rest of the newcomers are ones we expect. I would not be surprised to see Chrom next month. Once E3 rolls around, we'll have a better picture of what the roster will look like.

We're just going to have to wait and see. But mark my words, we're going to get at least 10 newcomers. Anything less than that means death to the Wii U and for this Smash Bros. in my opinion.

Dude, I'm just being literal here.
But yeah, 10 seems right. So, the remaining choices are (Mewtwo already factored in):

1. Palutena
2. Ridley
3. DK Character
4. Retro
5. Possibly Mii and/or Pacman

 

[Gunla]

We're just going to have to wait and see. But mark my words, we're going to get at least 10 newcomers. Anything less than that means death to the Wii U and for this Smash Bros. in my opinion.

I place ten as the minimum and fifteen as the max.
It also depends if Mewtwo is considered a newcomer. This factored in is a death sentence to someone.

Though right now I see the closest to 100% are a new DK character and the Tuna.

I also agree on the fact that without newcomers the game will fail. Massively. And I don't want Nintendo to become the second SEGA.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Determining who we get and how many are two completely different entities.

It's easier to predict who we'll get. While there are characters that we won't expect (or didn't want to see, because Rosalina DOES make sense in hindsight) that doesn't mean that all of them will be unexpected.

Adding only one or two more newcomers would be the death of hype for Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS. Absolutely undeniable stuff right there. With the current newcomer pool...I would be beyond disappointed.

Like I said, I'm actually hoping the rest of the newcomers are ones we expect. I would not be surprised to see Chrom next month. Once E3 rolls around, we'll have a better picture of what the roster will look like.

We're just going to have to wait and see. But mark my words, we're going to get at least 10 newcomers. Anything less than that means death to the Wii U and for this Smash Bros. in my opinion.

To add to this, I think Sakurai once said not to expect as many Newcomers in SSB4 as there were in Brawl. Can anyone confirm or voich for this?

Supposing that is the case, Brawl had 18 Newcomers, so getting 10-13 Newcomers would certainly conform to Sakurai's comments. Quality over quantity is preferable, and the five Newcomers shown so far certainly seem unique and fresh when it comes to Smash fighters, IMO.

 

[ChikoLad]

That's what I mean. We don't know. Logically it is guaranteed to have at least one more, but logic didn't get us Rosalina and WFT.

So I'm the only one who predicted (and wanted) Rosalina, logically and all?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

To add to this, I think Sakurai once said not to expect as many Newcomers in SSB4 as there were in Brawl. Can anyone confirm or voich for this?

Supposing that is the case, Brawl had 18 Newcomers, so getting 10-13 Newcomers would certainly conform to Sakurai's comments. Quality over quantity is preferable, and the five Newcomers shown so far certainly seem unique and fresh when it comes to Smash fighters, IMO.

I think he said more of a "less newcomers than previous installments". That means less than probably Brawl AND Melee. I wouldn't be worried if it were just Brawl, because that was like 18. Not sure how many Melee had off the top of my head.

Basically, I wouldn't expect more than 13-14.

@ ChikoLad there were people who predicted her, but they were a silent minority pretty much. Toad and Waluigi were heavy around here for awhile.

 

[Kenith]

So I'm the only one who predicted (and wanted) Rosalina, logically and all?

Well I wanted her as a pipe dream, so...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Alright, well Melee added 14. Granted, that was developed in a very short amount of time, and a large portion of those were clones.

If Smash Wii U and 3DS are out in November, how long would that make the development cycle? Anybody want to take a stab at that for me?

Anyway, 12-13 newcomers is a safe bet honestly. A roster of 50 is not out of the ball park.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

So I'm the only one who predicted (and wanted) Rosalina, logically and all?

Not really, I wanted her too, it's just that... Toad, Waluigi, etc were the popular choice, ya know?

 

[Kenith]

Alright, well Melee added 14. Granted, that was developed in a very short amount of time, and a large portion of those were clones.

If Smash Wii U and 3DS are out in November, how long would that make the development cycle? Anybody want to take a stab at that for me?

Anyway, 12-13 newcomers is a safe bet honestly. A roster of 50 is not out of the ball park.

Well, the game has been in development since early 2012, so that's a lot of time to add content.
They also aren't doing a story mode this time, so there's that.
But they are also making two games at the same time.

 

[Baskerville]

That's what I mean. We don't know. Logically it is guaranteed to have at least one more, but logic didn't get us Rosalina and WFT.

You're right. Them standing out got them in.

 

[Kenith]

You're right. Them standing out got them in.

You know who wouldn't stand out?

Spoiler

 

[Gunla]

Alright, well Melee added 14. Granted, that was developed in a very short amount of time, and a large portion of those were clones.

If Smash Wii U and 3DS are out in November, how long would that make the development cycle? Anybody want to take a stab at that for me?

Anyway, 12-13 newcomers is a safe bet honestly. A roster of 50 is not out of the ball park.

Well, if we anticipate cuts, I'd say 45 at the very, very least. At the most, 50 is what I would say is the max before you start getting a tad unreasonable.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Well, the game has been in development since early 2012, so that's a lot of time to add content.
They also aren't doing a story mode this time, so there's that.
But they are also making two games at the same time.

They also have Namco helping them.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You know who wouldn't stand out?

Spoiler

Ye of little imagination.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Well, the game has been in development since early 2012, so that's a lot of time to add content.
They also aren't doing a story mode this time, so there's that.
But they are also making two games at the same time.

Honestly I feel as if the whole "making two games at once" thing is way overstated.

While they're two games, it's the same game, just a different format. The only differences are the extra content. The rosters are the same as Sakurai has already said.

I would pray that Sakurai knows that nobody gives a flying **** about the trophies and stickers. I just want characters to play as. As I'm sure many many many other people would agree.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Honestly I feel as if the whole "making two games at once" thing is way overstated.

While they're two games, it's the same game, just a different format. The only differences are the extra content. The rosters are the same as Sakurai has already said.

I would pray that Sakurai knows that nobody gives a flying **** about the trophies and stickers. I just want characters to play as. As I'm sure many many many other people would agree.

I like trophies. It's fun reading all the descriptions and learning about characters you didn't know about.

And it's always a nice to have collectibles.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Rayman is considered quite iconic, and would be a perfect fit for Smash Bros. He's way more iconic than many of Nintendo's own franchises (Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Starfox, etc).

And it wouldn't be hard to give him a moveset, as there is almost a full Smash moveset for him in Rayman Legends.

Rayman is considered quite iconic, and would be a perfect fit for Smash Bros. He's way more iconic than many of Nintendo's own franchises (Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Starfox, etc).

Rayman is considered quite iconic, and would be a perfect fit for Smash Bros. He's way more iconic than many of Nintendo's own franchises (Kid Icarus, F-Zero,

Starfox, etc).

Rayman is considered quite iconic, and would be a perfect fit for Smash Bros. He's way more iconic than many of Nintendo's own franchises (Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Starfox, etc).

Rayman is considered quite iconic, and would be a perfect fit for Smash Bros. He's way more iconic than many of Nintendo's own franchises (Kid Icarus, F-Zero,

Starfox, etc).

Starfox overshadowed by Rayman? Sorry but:

 

[Starcutter]

anyone play yoshi's new island?

Kamek has a bunch of boss fights in it and is WAY more prominent than before. and more moveset potential.

 

[Baskerville]

I would pray that Sakurai knows that nobody gives a flying **** about the trophies and stickers. I just want characters to play as. As I'm sure many many many other people would agree.

I dunno about you geezer Jones or everyone else, but I love just staring at my Landmaster trophy back in Melee.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Honestly I feel as if the whole "making two games at once" thing is way overstated.

While they're two games, it's the same game, just a different format. The only differences are the extra content. The rosters are the same as Sakurai has already said.

I would pray that Sakurai knows that nobody gives a flying **** about the trophies and stickers. I just want characters to play as. As I'm sure many many many other people would agree.

There's also the fact that Sora is co-developing this time around (with Bandai-Namco), so the development team is (most probably) bigger. More manpower would make working on two versions of the game less strenuous.

I enjoy Trophies, so I'm glad they're still around. But Stickers in Brawl were only valuable in the context of the SSE, and with that kind of story mode out of the way, I wouldn't grieve the loss of Stickers in SSB4.

 

[Gunla]

I would pray that Sakurai knows that nobody gives a flying **** about the trophies and stickers. I just want characters to play as. As I'm sure many many many other people would agree.

If I was given the option for 100 trophies or one character, you know what almost everyone would say. Hopefully Sakurai does the same.

anyone play yoshi's new island?

Kamek has a bunch of boss fights in it and is WAY more prominent than before. and more moveset potential.

It's fun. And Kamek does seem to get more potential out of this. Maybe in a future Smash?

@ Sehnsucht I actually hated stickers because they seemed like a waste of time. I'd rather remove them for more characters or trophies.

 

[Kenith]

Sigh, my day has been awful, I don't want to talk about Miis...

 

[AncientTobacco]

anyone play yoshi's new island?

Kamek has a bunch of boss fights in it and is WAY more prominent than before. and more moveset potential.

I'm only in World 2 so I have yet to see much.

 

[Baskerville]

There's also the fact that Sora is co-developing this time around (with Bandai-Namco), so the development team is (most probably) bigger. More manpower would make working on two versions of the game less strenuous.

I enjoy Trophies, so I'm glad they're still around. But Stickers in Brawl were only valuable in the context of the SSE, and with that kind of story mode out of the way, I wouldn't grieve the loss of Stickers in SSB4.

The only way stickers can be actually worth a damn is if they did the same thing as Mario 3D World with the stamps. Other than that, they're absolutely worthless.

 

[Starcutter]

It's fun. And Kamek does seem to get more potential out of this. Maybe in a future Smash?

I'm almost certian kamek would be a big frontrunner for smash 5 (no not smash for 3DS) if he doesn't make it into this one.

just look at everything: if we have Ridley, K Rool, and a couple others in this game, it would leave characters like Kamek and Dixie to be smash 5's "Big Guns"



with all that said I have confidence in kamek's appearance in this smash.