Character Discussion Thread

[Scoliosis Jones]

Because of the SSE getting scrapped, then yes, everything to do with stickers is gone unless they've been given a new role.

It's not that I would want trophies taken out, but I would prefer more time be devoted to characters and stages. At least that's just me.

 

[Gunla]

Because of the SSE getting scrapped, then yes, everything to do with stickers is gone unless they've been given a new role.

It's not that I would want trophies taken out, but I would prefer more time be devoted to characters and stages. At least that's just me.

I'm pretty sure that's not just you. Anyone who really cares about fighter variety/clones and seeing more characters would rather see the approaches seen in some fighting games where they literally just add characters and that's it. Make room for more fighters by removing elements?

And no SSE makes the sticker all too useless now.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I think Kamek has enough merit to deserve Assist Trophy status, at the very least.

In any case, this seems to be the most plausible Newcomer roster, going by the current prediction zeitgeist:

Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Mega Man
Rosalina & Luma
Little Mac
+Takamaru
+Palutena
+Mewtwo
-Ridley
-DK Newcomer (Dixie/K Rool)
-Fire Emblem Newcomer (Chrom/Robin/Chromucina/etc.)
-Pac-Man
-Mii
*???
*???

I think the + characters are the most likely (if not guaranteed). The - characters seem fairly probable, but I could see them being excluded for the sake of other characters (or be represented in non-playable capacities). And the * characters are extra spaces in case we get all of the above, plus a few more to give us a round fifteen.

Any thoughts on this Final Newcomer Roster breakdown?

 

[Starcutter]

I think Kamek has enough merit to deserve Assist Trophy status, at the very least.

In any case, this seems to be the most plausible Newcomer roster, going by the current prediction zeitgeist:

Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Mega Man
Rosalina & Luma
Little Mac
+Takamaru
+Palutena
+Mewtwo
-Ridley
-DK Newcomer (Dixie/K Rool)
-Fire Emblem Newcomer (Chrom/Robin/Chromucina/etc.)
-Pac-Man
-Mii
*???
*???

I think the + characters are the most likely (if not guaranteed). The - characters seem fairly probable, but I could see them being excluded for the sake of other characters (or be represented in non-playable capacities). And the * characters are extra spaces in case we get all of the above, plus a few more to give us a round fifteen.

Any thoughts on this Final Newcomer Roster breakdown?

one of the ??? should be Kamek imo, but that's just me.

 

[ChikoLad]

Starfox overshadowed by Rayman?

Yes, actually. By a long stretch of a shadow.

Right now, according to VGChartz (which is accurate for older games), the global sales of the Starfox franchise are 11.27 million.

According to a really old IGN article I dug up, the global sales of the Rayman franchise were 10.5 million as of December 7th, 2001.

Also, Rayman is considered a revolution for 2D animation in video games, having professional French cartoonists work on the spirtes and backgrounds for the first game, and for the recent Origins and Legends.

 

[Gunla]

I think Kamek has enough merit to deserve Assist Trophy status, at the very least.

In any case, this seems to be the most plausible Newcomer roster, going by the current prediction zeitgeist:

Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Mega Man
Rosalina & Luma
Little Mac
+Takamaru
+Palutena
+Mewtwo
-Ridley
-DK Newcomer (Dixie/K Rool)
-Fire Emblem Newcomer (Chrom/Robin/Chromucina/etc.)
-Pac-Man
-Mii
*???
*???

I think the + characters are the most likely (if not guaranteed). The - characters seem fairly probable, but I could see them being excluded for the sake of other characters (or be represented in non-playable capacities). And the * characters are extra spaces in case we get all of the above, plus a few more to give us a round fifteen.

Any thoughts on this Final Newcomer Roster breakdown?

Some thoughts:
-People are gonna get mad about Takamaru and say it should be general Retro.
-I see DK as more of a 60/40. Might be your own take on it. Might just unabide by my own rules and make a roster since I was waiting for the dinosaur.
-Mewtwo is practically guaranteed, as is the Tuna. So those are good.
Everything else is looking pretty plausible. Which is good.

 

[Baskerville]

Actually, I've been wondering. Why is it that after Uprisng most people think Palutena is a necessity?

 

[Sehnsucht]

one of the ??? should be Kamek imo, but that's just me.

Yeah. The ??? slots can be anyone you like. Alternatively, some of the - characters could be replaced by other Newcomers.

 

[Starcutter]

Actually, I've been wondering. Why is it that after Uprisng most people think Palutena is a necessity?

because Sakurai made uprising, so it should be fresh in his mind.


nothing more, nothing less.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Actually, I've been wondering. Why is it that after Uprisng most people think Palutena is a necessity?

I don't. But I wouldn't mind her, regardless.

That said, I still wouldn't be worried about her chances, considering how likely she is, anyways.

 

[Baskerville]

because Sakurai made uprising, so it should be fresh in his mind.


nothing more, nothing less.

But does that alone make her more needed then say K. Rool or Ridley? Both of which who are way overdue.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

But does that alone make her more needed then say K. Rool or Ridley? Both of which who are way overdue.

In the strictest sense of "need", no. But that kind of argument can apply to a lot of established Smash Bros characters that made it in anyways, so it's not like I really care about that. I'm more concerned about whether or not I feel particular characters have enough merits to make a great choice for Smash Bros than whether or not they are "needed".

 

[Sehnsucht]

Some thoughts:
-People are gonna get mad about Takamaru and say it should be general Retro.
-I see DK as more of a 60/40. Might be your own take on it. Might just unabide by my own rules and make a roster since I was waiting for the dinosaur.
-Mewtwo is practically guaranteed, as is the Tuna. So those are good.
Everything else is looking pretty plausible. Which is good.

Seems to me that of all the Retro-class characters, Takamaru has the strongest case, hence why I put him there. In line with this, I'm expecting him to be the Newcomer revealed in next month's global Direct (April is Murasame's anniversary). Additional Retro/Historical/etc. characters could fit in the ??? category, or replace one of the candidates below Mewtwo.

As far as DK Newcomers are concerned, I'm gunning for K Rool. Though I could see Dixie, or no DK character at all.

On an unrelated note, I've learned that Sukapon comes from Nintendo's first-ever fighting game (Joy Mech Fight, or something). I'm starting to consider him to be my preferred Historical candidate, if we get one (being to SSB4 what ROB and G&W were to past Smash titles).

Does Sukapon have any merits other than that? How likely is he overall, all things considered?

 

[Starcutter]

But does that alone make her more needed then say K. Rool or Ridley? Both of which who are way overdue.

people are dumb.


nothing more, nothing less.

 

[ChikoLad]

Actually, I've been wondering. Why is it that after Uprisng most people think Palutena is a necessity?

Because she's a character with charm, something not a lot of Nintendo characters have these days.

I haven't played the game yet or even seen much of her, but I love her and want her already. She's half on my wishlist (only half because I have not played her flagship game yet).

I think a problem I have with a lot of wishlists I see is that apparently characters have to either be in a lot of games (hence Toad, Waluigi, and Daisy were expected more than Rosalina, for most), or have to be considered some kind of badass with a sword or martial arts skills or have to be "edgy" (hence we get a lot of Shadow requests and what not). People seem to forget the joy of putting legitimately charming characters with some sort of depth into the game.

 

[Gunla]

On an unrelated note, I've learned that Sukapon comes from Nintendo's first-ever fighting game (Joy Mech Fight, or something). I'm starting to consider him to be my preferred Historical candidate, if we get one (being to SSB4 what ROB and G&W were to past Smash titles).

Does Sukapon have any merits other than that? How likely is he overall, all things considered?

-Urban Champion predates Joy Mech Fight, actually. But JMF is much better.
-Everyone pretty much plays the same.
-He was the Ryu of the game.
Otherwise, I don't really think of much more else for the guy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Actually, I've been wondering. Why is it that after Uprisng most people think Palutena is a necessity?

Most people don't think she's a necessity for that. Uprising just made her popular.

It's the leak.

 

[Sehnsucht]

-Urban Champion predates Joy Mech Fight, actually. But JMF is much better.
-Everyone pretty much plays the same.
-He was the Ryu of the game.
Otherwise, I don't really think of much more else for the guy.

I don't know much about Urban Champion, so perhaps I should look into it.

If everyone plays the same in JMF, then Sukapon would be as good a representative as any. I'm simply thinking that Smash representing early Nintendo fighting games would be a very reasonable and fitting move.

 

[Gunla]

I don't know much about Urban Champion, so perhaps I should look into it.

No, fair warning and advice, you shouldn't. It's awful.
Urban Champion should just be an AT at most.

 

[Starcutter]

we need a more stable discussion. one that doesn't change every few posts, but I guess that's impossible.



...so guys, what do you think about Kamek and what do you think his appearance in new island has on his chances?

 

[Sehnsucht]

No, fair warning and advice, you shouldn't. It's awful.
Urban Champion should just be an AT at most.

I was thinking more of taking a quick look at gameplay videos (as well as for JMF). I'm now much more curious to see UC in action. XD

 

[Baskerville]

Most people don't think she's a necessity for that. Uprising just made her popular.

It's the leak.

I don't really think it's the leak. Even before then a lot of people we're still expecting her.

 

[Starcutter]

I don't really think it's the leak. Even before then a lot of people we're still expecting her.

then it's the thing I mentioned. it's simple, really.

 

[Bowserlick]

I think Kamek has enough merit to deserve Assist Trophy status, at the very least.

In any case, this seems to be the most plausible Newcomer roster, going by the current prediction zeitgeist:

Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Mega Man
Rosalina & Luma
Little Mac
+Takamaru
+Palutena
+Mewtwo
-Ridley
-DK Newcomer (Dixie/K Rool)
-Fire Emblem Newcomer (Chrom/Robin/Chromucina/etc.)
-Pac-Man
-Mii
*???
*???

I think the + characters are the most likely (if not guaranteed). The - characters seem fairly probable, but I could see them being excluded for the sake of other characters (or be represented in non-playable capacities). And the * characters are extra spaces in case we get all of the above, plus a few more to give us a round fifteen.

Any thoughts on this Final Newcomer Roster breakdown?

Because of the two more viable leaks I tend to always consider Palutena, Mii, and Pac-Man. Takamaru completes the quadruplets. Mewtwo has crazy demand and has been deemed worthy already (but then unworthy). Ridley seems like a developer challenge that a genius like Sakurai cannot ignore anymore.
Good job.

I like your roster skeleton. I added predictions to the pre-made structure.
Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Mega Man, Rosalina & Luma, Little Mac
+Takamaru
+Palutena
+Mewtwo
+Ridley
+Dixie Kong
+Chrom/Lucina tagteam
+Pac-Man
+Mii
+Mach Rider
*Chibi-Robo

Now I think that Dixie will get in over King K. Rool and while we can have both, I am not sure Sakurai will find enough to do with the King. (Although I personally think wardrobe switching would be amazing and he is by far my most wanted).

I am not sure FE will be ignored. And not the newest title which has a tagteam mechanic which Sakurai abandoned in Brawl with Dixie and Diddy. This is a perfect opportunity to return to this idea.

Mach Rider was mentioned in an old interview as Sakurai's second favorite character after Captain Falcon.

Chibi-Robo seems like a cute pick that a man who lives alone with a cat would gravitate towards.

 

[ChikoLad]

we need a more stable discussion. one that doesn't change every few posts, but I guess that's impossible.



...so guys, what do you think about Kamek and what do you think his appearance in new island has on his chances?

Assist Trophy or cameo/stage hazard on Yoshi's stage.

In fact, the latter makes most sense, considering there seems to be a trend of boss characters showing up as stage hazards (which I am hoping means they will be actual bosses in the game's adventure mode).

 

[Starcutter]

I personally think that Kamek has a good chance, not amazing, but minus the 5 confirmed, he's in the top 15 likely at least.

Yoshi's New Island makes him more likely imo

 

[Sehnsucht]

Because of the two more viable leaks I tend to always consider Palutena, Mii, and Pac-Man. Takamaru completes the quadruplets. Mewtwo has crazy demand and has been deemed worthy already (but then unworthy). Ridley seems like a developer challenge that a genius like Sakurai cannot ignore anymore.
Good job.

I like your roster skeleton. I added predictions to the pre-made structure.
Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Mega Man, Rosalina & Luma, Little Mac
+Takamaru
+Palutena
+Mewtwo
+Ridley
+Dixie Kong
+Chrom/Lucina tagteam
+Pac-Man
+Mii
+Mach Rider
*Chibi-Robo

Now I think that Dixie will get in over King K. Rool and while we can have both, I am not sure Sakurai will find enough to do with the King. (Although I personally think wardrobe switching would be amazing and he is by far my most wanted).

I am not sure FE will be ignored. And not the newest title which has a tagteam mechanic which Sakurai abandoned in Brawl with Dixie and Diddy. This is a perfect opportunity to return to this idea.

Mach Rider was mentioned in an old interview as Sakurai's second favorite character after Captain Falcon.

Chibi-Robo seems like a cute pick that a man who lives alone with a cat would gravitate towards.

I'm aware of those leaks. They do seem the most credible thus far.

Well, K Rool has a built-in moveset. He would bolster the current Heavyweight count, and would be distinguished in that class by virtue of using multiple tools (crowns, blunderbuss, jetpack, boxing gloves, etc.). Dedede uses a singular weapon (his hammer), whereas DK is purely physical and Bowser has his spikes and fire and so forth. But I certainly do see the merits in Dixie.

I'm not at all familiar with FE, so I'm indifferent on who gets in (or not). I do like Marth and Ike well enough, so I hope Ike doesn't get cut.

Mach Rider and Chibi-Robo could be cool. This is a pretty good Newcomer pool. My own would look something like this:

Spoiler

Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Mega Man
Rosalina & Luma
Little Mac
Takamaru
Palutena
[Mewtwo]
Ridley
King K Rool
Robin
Pac-Man
Mii
Shulk
Sukapon

K Rool because I prefer him over Dixie, Robin because a magic-heavy FE character sounds cool (and would be distinguished from Marth and Ike), Shulk because I think representing the New as well as the Old is a good idea, and Sukapon for the Historical character, a la ROB and G&W

 

[SmasherMaster]

I think we all can agree with Mii and Pacman were both revealed at E3, with anybody except for Palutena, Ridley, K Rool or Mewtwo, then Smashboards would be storming, much like the rest of the internet.

People expect the ghost chaser dot and the ugly cyborg android avatar, but literally almost nobody wants them. Seriously, when Smashboards, Miiverse and YouTube all say they don't want these characters, it has to mean something.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Does Sukapon have any merits other than that? How likely is he overall, all things considered?

Well, Sakurai said people shouldn't expect him in future Smash games.

 

[M23-X0]

Well, Sakurai said people shouldn't expect him in future Smash games.

When did he says that ?

 

[Sehnsucht]

Well, Sakurai said people shouldn't expect him in future Smash games.

When did he says that ?

I'd also like a source on this, if you wouldn't mind.

What's more, I've also read that apparently, Sakurai either opposed, or said that Villager's chances were low, in the pre-SSB4 era. And now he's a playable character, which shows that Sakurai is willing to change his mind over time. So even if Sakurai has once said that Sukapon is unfeasible, he may have similarly changed his mind in the time since (although, if that statement was made later in SSB4's development process, then it might not bode well for Sukapon anyway).

 

[Bowserlick]

My own would look something like this:

Spoiler

Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Mega Man
Rosalina & Luma
Little Mac
Takamaru
Palutena
[Mewtwo]
Ridley
King K Rool
Robin
Pac-Man
Mii
Shulk
Sukapon

K Rool because I prefer him over Dixie, Robin because a magic-heavy FE character sounds cool (and would be distinguished from Marth and Ike), Shulk because I think representing the New as well as the Old is a good idea, and Sukapon for the Historical character, a la ROB and G&W

I prefer King K. Rool over Dixie, but I was trying to go for what Sakurai would go for (which is quite a difficult task). I tend to imagine Ridley as a super-heavyweight while it seems the majority on the forums have him pegged as a medium to medium-heavy character.

Robin seems like a fan choice, but again I am not sure if Sakurai would go for that.

Shulk seems like a very interesting choice.

And I do believe that Sakurai did once consider Sukapon, but now has ruled him out for an undisclosed reason. But he does change his mind.

Overall, a very interesting roster that I would enjoy.

 

[AncientTobacco]

When did he says that ?

I'd also like a source on this, if you wouldn't mind.

What's more, I've also read that apparently, Sakurai either opposed, or said that Villager's chances were low, in the pre-SSB4 era. And now he's a playable character, which shows that Sakurai is willing to change his mind over time. So even if Sakurai has once said that Sukapon is unfeasible, he may have similarly changed his mind in the time since (although, if that statement was made later in SSB4's development process, then it might not bode well for Sukapon anyway).

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/syukeiken/return578.html

You shouldn't assume that just because he changed his mind on Villager, he has also changed his mind on [insert character here].

 

[ChikoLad]

I was trying to go for what Sakurai would go for

One does not simply transcend humanity.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I prefer King K. Rool over Dixie, but I was trying to go for what Sakurai would go for (which is quite a difficult task). I tend to imagine Ridley as a super-heavyweight while it seems the majority on the forums have him pegged as a medium to medium-heavy character.

Robin seems like a fan choice, but again I am not sure if Sakurai would go for that.

Shulk seems like a very interesting choice.

And I do believe that Sakurai did once consider Sukapon, but now has ruled him out for an undisclosed reason. But he does change his mind.

Overall, a very interesting roster that I would enjoy.

Further thoughts below:

Spoiler

I think Ridley would be the largest character, but not the heaviest; he can't be so heavy that he can't fly, after all. He would probably be like Rosalina and Mewtwo - large, but deceptively light for their size.

K Rool and Dixie have at least a 50/50 chance, but the reality is probably more like 40/60. Still, K Rool has a lot going for him, including high global demand (which may be his biggest selling point).

I'm not knowledgeable enough on FE to really made an educated guess. From what I've seen, Robin makes a lot of sense both playstyle-wise and to vary the Fire Emblem gang (Marth as the fast and graceful swordsman, Ike as the heavyweight and strong swordsman). I could see him picking Chrom(ucina) just as easily.

I haven't played Xenoblade (yet), but I'm fond of his design and moveset potential. He's also apparently highly requested in Japan, and I again think that while Smash is foremost about Nintendo All-Stars, it is also a platform to represent Nintendo's vast library - which includes both the Classic and the Modern.

Someone earlier above noted Sakurai's apparent comments on Sukapon. I've only started considering him recently, since a Nintendo crossover fighting game paying tribute to one of Nintendo's first fighting games would be very fitting (and as an actual fighter, Sukapon would fit in well). I've also admittedly not done as much research into his moveset potential and other factors, so he's only my tentative Historical candidate for the time being (as I haven't really thought about that category much before).

EDIT:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/syukeiken/return578.html

You shouldn't assume that just because he changed his mind on Villager, he has also changed his mind on [insert character here].

I'm afraid that I don't read Japanese, so the link is not as helpful as I'd like. I'm not sure Google Translate would be the most useful tool, in this instance (but I'll give it a go anyway).

You're correct that we can't simply assume Sakurai would change his mind on anyone, despite the case of Villager. But it does set a precedent that cannot simply be dismissed either. I guess the most rational course would be to take Sakurai to his word unless told or shown otherwise. Even so, I will continue to look into Sukapon's case, as I am finding myself further intrigued by this topic.

 

[UltimateWario]

And it only caused several characters to be scrapped (****ing MEWTWO of all of them), shoddy-at-BEST Sonic representation, and the character himself was awful.

-slow clap- Great example.

Now I think that Dixie will get in over King K. Rool and while we can have both, I am not sure Sakurai will find enough to do with the King.

...so he would include a clone over a completely unique and extremely popular character because...?

 

[Sehnsucht]

...so he would include a clone over a completely unique and extremely popular character because...?

Because Sakurai, of course.

If, for whatever reason, Sakurai perceives Dixie to be the better pick over K Rool, he's going to include her. But if such a thing happens, many would no doubt seriously question his reasoning (myself included).

 

[UltimateWario]

Y'know, it just hit me, but we got Solid ****ing Snake in Smash Bros. before Ridley and K. Rool.

-clouds of despair-

 

[Gunla]

Because Sakurai, of course.

If, for whatever reason, Sakurai perceives Dixie to be the better pick over K Rool, he's going to include her. But if such a thing happens, many would no doubt seriously question his reasoning (myself included).

If it happens, I can assure you Miiverse and Smashboards will be mighty salty.

Y'know, it just hit me, but we got Solid ****ing Snake in Smash Bros. before Ridley and K. Rool.

-clouds of despair-

We got Diddy in Brawl and Zero Suit Samus. Only the latter really would make sense still being swapped with Ridley. Though still, it's Kojima.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think we all can agree with Mii and Pacman were both revealed at E3, with anybody except for Palutena, Ridley, K Rool or Mewtwo, then Smashboards would be storming, much like the rest of the internet.

People expect the ghost chaser dot and the ugly cyborg android avatar, but literally almost nobody wants them. Seriously, when Smashboards, Miiverse and YouTube all say they don't want these characters, it has to mean something.

Unless Miis are revealed early for whatever reason.