Character Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

On the subject of Mewtwo returning, what about Roy? Apparently he's more requested than Mewtwo in Japan.

Mewtwo's still more requested in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

I wish there was a second Japan source aside from Chronobound as the one area I don't entirely trust his judgement on is Roy.

He's one of the biggest Roy fans I've ever seen. Mewtwo is definitely more popular in Japan.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Roy could return..

..if Sakurai ever runs out of time.

Who do you guys think will be the first semi-clone newcomer implemented if the team runs out of time. My bets are on Dixie Kong.

 

[SpindaMaster]

Mewtwo's still more requested in Japan.

I wish there was a second Japan source aside from Chronobound as the one area I don't entirely trust his judgement on is Roy.

He's one of the biggest Roy fans I've ever seen. Mewtwo is definitely more popular in Japan.

Well nevermind then

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yeah, ok. So after research, (please correct me if i'm wrong,) it appears K. Rool is more of a popular western character. So we have Mewtwo, who is extremely requested in both regions. Ridley, popular westerner, and K. Rool, popular in west. However, Ridley outdoes K. Rool in popularity. If there is a pattern, it seems that Mewtwo could be the tribute to all fans, and Ridley to appeal to the West. Now, who would be the option to appeal to the East? Would they go with K. Rool anyway? Would Takamaru be selected? Apparently, Ghirahim is very requested.

Well, there isn't anything highly concrete that would appeal to a Japanese audience, but a general rule of thumb is that the Japanese seem to prefer characters that have some sort of cuteness to them. Something along the lines of Palutena or Lip for example would probably receive positive reception in Japan.

This isn't 100% concrete though, so trend carefully.

 

[Deleted member]

Perhaps someone that can be considered a "Little Mac" in the opposite spectrum (popular in Japan, meager popularity outside it) would be Black Shadow?

Then again, not sure if their situations are all that comparable....

 

[UltimateWario]

I don't know of any characters that only Japan likes that aren't horrible.

 

[Deleted member]

Are you saying Black Shadow is horrible?

....or does he not count since not literally only Japan likes him?

 

[Joe D.]

Hmmm, then I guess we have anywhere from, Shulk, Roy, Lip, or Palutena. I'm curious to see how this plays out.

 

[UltimateWario]

Eh? Sorry, I didn't see your post when I posted mine.

Didn't know that Black Shadow's support was so one-sided. He's not someone I'd get excited for, but I certainly wouldn't be put off by his inclusion.

 

[Arcanir]

I wish there was a second Japan source aside from Chronobound as the one area I don't entirely trust his judgement on is Roy.

He's one of the biggest Roy fans I've ever seen. Mewtwo is definitely more popular in Japan.

Yeah, I mean no disrespect towards Chronobound but bias is bias and without a secondary source to bounce off of it's hard to be fully accurate on the subject. On top of that, from what I've heard there's an discrepancy around that character, CAWEvolution for instance hasn't seen much in the way of requests for Roy while Awakening characters get more.

 

[Deleted member]

The language barrier stigmatizes the Japanese fanbase, as it becomes hard to discern Miiverse tier communities that are the loudest when we ourselves wouldn't want to be judged by those standards. I'm sure Japanese fans also hide from the light in harrowed out smaller communities like Smash Boards to not be disturbed by the drooling masses of "Naruto in Smash" fanboys.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yeah, I mean no disrespect towards Chronobound but bias is bias and without a secondary source to bounce off of it's hard to be fully accurate on the subject. On top of that, from what I've heard there's an discrepancy around that character, CAWEvolution for instance hasn't seen much in the way of requests for Roy while Awakening characters get more.

Not that I disagree with you, it's just keep in mind that the current research we have is outdated. I recall it was last updated on March 2013, a whole year ago.

 

[Arcanir]

Not that I disagree with you, it's just keep in mind that the current research we have is outdated. I recall it was last updated on March 2013, a whole year ago.

True, and Roy could've fallen off between then and now, it's more that for accuracy at that point in time a second opinion could've been helpful to really determine the character standings.

 

[Deleted member]

Not that I disagree with you, it's just keep in mind that the current research we have is outdated. I recall it was last updated on March 2013, a whole year ago.

Good point, but I still hold that in March 2013, the likelihood of Roy being as popular as Chronobound suggests is the least trustworthy part of his analysis. The fact that since then, other characters have seemingly eclipsed him with relative ease only backs that up.

 

[Jaedrik]

The most archetypical Namco-Bandai character that traditionally gets involved in whatever fighting game they're involved in is Yoshimitsu. I would love to see katana pogo sticks and helicopter blades and seppuku attacks.

 

[FlareHabanero]

True, and Roy could've fallen off between then and now, it's more that for accuracy at that point in time a second opinion could've been helpful to really determine the character standings.

Good point, but I still hold that in March 2013, the likelihood of Roy being as popular as Chronobound suggests is the least trustworthy part of his analysis. The fact that since then, other characters have seemingly eclipsed him with relative ease only backs that up.

Believe me, if it was so simple to post on Japanese sites (many of them are actually region locked essentially) and receive the information myself, there would be clarifications over the whos and whys. At best all I can do is browse Pixiv or hope for a 2ch topic comes up regarding to Super Smash Bros.

But I will say Roy having popularity in Japan does hold some water form what I've seen, with the main factor that his game Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade holds a nostalgic factor of sorts.

 

[UltimateWario]

the main factor that his game Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade holds a nostalgic factor of sorts.

Care to explain why that game in particular holds nostalgia?

I'm not trying to undermine your point or anything, I'm just genuinely curious.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll take your word for it, as I have no clue about Japanese forums or fan sites. I'm only surprised that Sigurd isn't popular, I thought his game was the cult classic, best loved game in the franchise for Japanese fans? I suppose it is very old now, so most players may have forgotten or never played it there. Not sure if it's on Nintendo's Japanese E-Shop or anything.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Care to explain why that game in particular holds nostalgia?

I'm not trying to undermine your point or anything, I'm just genuinely curious.

Well keep in mind that the game isn't different from any other game in the sense of having nostalgia. By default if you've played a game along time ago, you'd have some sort of special feeling towards the game. As to why Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade gets above normal attention over there, I'd like to link to the factor of Super Smash Bros. Melee basically causing more exposure towards Fire Emblem as a whole, opening up the situation that the next titles will bring along a new audience curious about Fire Emblem. It's probably the same reason why the prequel Fire Emblem: The Sword of Flame was localized in other regions and had solid sales.

Since I hold no particular nostalgia for Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade, I cannot accurately explain it.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I wonder what will happen to Roy's Smash support if he doesn't make it.

I won't really care if he makes it or not, but I personally don't think he'd be considered again if he gets passed over for Wii U and 3DS.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wonder what will happen to Roy's Smash support if he doesn't make it.

I will know that ChronoBound will be upset and explain with a wall of text that the decision is the blunder of the century and that Sakurai's an idiot and blah blah blah.

But in general, expect a much more pessimistic and shrunken fanbase.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

There are only a few characters who I feel will suffer a big downfall in support without a Smash debut this time. I'm positive at least one of them will suffer:

Ridley
Isaac
Roy
Shulk

At least from my perspective.

EDIT: Not to mention a large portion of the characters who have support threads on here. The only way some characters can survive in my opinion, is through DLC throughout the years of Smash 4's lifespan.

 

[SuperBrawler]

There are only a few characters who I feel will suffer a big downfall in support without a Smash debut this time. I'm positive at least one of them will suffer:

Ridley
Isaac
Roy
Shulk

At least from my perspective.

EDIT: Not to mention a large portion of the characters who have support threads on here. The only way some characters can survive in my opinion, is through DLC throughout the years of Smash 4's lifespan.

Maybe K. Rool too?

 

[BKupa666]

I don't think Ridley's support will ever die off at this point, ditto with K. Rool, but I can agree with regard to those lesser choices, especially since, more likely than not, new RPG series and Fire Emblem swordsmen will pop up over the next seven years or so to edge them out. The former two aren't nearly as interchangeable.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Maybe K. Rool too?

K.Rool is a character who really hasn't had any big appearances in Smash yet, so he can still have chances based on being an All Star who still has pervasive popularity.

Ridley, if he is a boss or not playable, will probably be viewed as stuck in that spot, and left like I said. That's not to say he won't have any supporters, but he will be severely weakened in terms of support.

@ BKupa666 I don't think Ridley's support will completely die off, but it won't be what it is now, at least I wouldn't think. This is his first legitimate chance at being playable, so if he is relegated to boss/stage hazard/assist trophy/background element, then I would argue that's what Sakurai sees in him, no matter how much I disagree with Sakurai's logic.

 

[BKupa666]

The way I see it, if Ridley doesn't get in this time, there's going to be backlash, and a hell of a lot of it. Depending on whether an interviewer brings it up with Sakurai again, and depending on his response, the fanbase may end up reacting any number of different ways. If there's even a remote chance left by a Sakurai response that he could work in the future, the fanbase will stay strong.

If not, yeah, the bandwagoners are probably going to drop out, but the more dedicated fans are going to invest more time and effort into demonstrating that, yes, Ridley can work, no matter what Sakurai says. This means more sketches, more models, Ridley being added into Project M, SSB4 being hacked to add a playable Ridley...Not to mention fans will feel obligated to defend themselves against the vocal TooBigots, and thus remain in continued support of the character. And should any of this reach Sakurai and/or his replacement, who knows whether a change of heart could happen. Wouldn't be the first time.

I think the "it's now or never" mentality is more of an arbitrary dramatization by a few vocal individuals, along the lines of "these characters are in a bloodthirsty death match to Rep this series in this single Slot." Eh.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases will be hit pretty hard should they not make it.

From what I understand, it appears that most have fallen under the "It's now or never" mentality.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I will say, that I would freaking LOVE Project M if none of my picks make the game. Especially if they make a Wii U mod instead of just Brawl. That would at least give me hope for K.Rool, Ridley, and Shulk. Maybe.

That said, I can't imagine the game selling well if Ridley, K.Rool, Palutena, and Mewtwo aren't included. That much I can say. Those are now the Elite 4 overall I would say, now that Little Mac made it.

It's a waiting game. Depending on what happens at E3, there might be a few long months, or a joyous lead to the release of the game. I have a hard time seeing a delay unless issues come up. BUt depending on who we get at E3, it'll make a huge difference in my book.

I'm getting the game either way, but leaving out choices such as those 4 is a big mistake.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I feel the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases will be hit pretty hard should they not make it.

From what I understand, it appears that most have fallen under the "It's now or never" mentality.

I would argue pretty much every character would follow this sort of pressure, considering we're starting to hit a bit of a limit point and how ambiguous the direction next time may go into.

 

[?????????????]

If K. Rool doesn't make it, I can still see him making it into the future, but I'm not as confident with Ridley. Here's why:

Even if K. Rool is still the best, greatest DK villain of all time, it is still true that he has been out of the spotlight of the main games for a while. If he doesn't make it into SSB4, there's still the chance he could make a return in future DK installments, and that in turn could raise his chances for future SSB installments.

Ridley, on the other hand, has never lost spotlight in the franchise he's from. He's always been a significant character, and even though he's missed a couple titles, you pretty much expect Ridley any time there's a new Metroid game. Given this position, there really shouldn't be any reason he isn't in SSB. So, if he isn't, there's either some problem we haven't thought of enough or Sakurai simply doesn't care about the character becoming playable. Unlike K. Rool who could be revived in future installments, Ridley is already continuously prominent, so nothing is going to make him more prominent, unless we get something crazy like a playable Ridley in a Metroid game or a Ridley spin-off. Both of which would be unexpected.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

 

[UltimateWario]

I think the primary reason for the "Now or Never" mentality (at least as far as Ridley is concerned) is that this is his time. The popularity is there, Sakurai is aware of the demand, and we're honestly running out of important Nintendo characters. One could argue that the Elite Four are pretty much the only "Major" Nintendo characters left, and, even then, Mewtwo and Palutena may not quite fall into that category (Mewtwo because, despite his importance, he's still part of something much bigger, and Palutena because her surge of popularity importance is fairly recent).

At risk of being...er...disagreed with, I will say that Ridley is the most important Nintendo character not yet playable in Smash (with K. Rool being the obvious second). If Sakurai doesn't think he's worth being playable this time, I'm going to be led to believe that he's not interested in making him playable, for whatever dumb reason he may have.

 

[Gune]

I wonder what will happen to Roy's Smash support if he doesn't make it.

I won't really care if he makes it or not, but I personally don't think he'd be considered again if he gets passed over for Wii U and 3DS.

honestly he most likely will hit pichu status.

 

[RadRedi]

@CliffJumper I'm sorry if you took offense to my post. It isn't in my nature to be aggressive towards people. Assertive, possibly (and in that post, most definitely), but not aggressive. I know that the issue has since died down, but I wanted to formally let bygones be bygones, for my own conscious' sake. As Opossum said, I just wanted you to clarify your side of things, as I've seen you be pretty vague on the issue in multiple threads now. Since the topic has since gone to E3 and fanbases that may be damaged by exclusion, I'm not bringing the subject up again, though.

Okay, we're talking about fanbases and disappointment?

I think that, should K. Rool be excluded, things could get pretty shaky. His inclusion in Smash would certainly see him knocking over the thrones of one-offs like the Tikis and Snomads (Snowmads?) If he isn't included, there isn't as much pressure to add "that crocodile guy from Smash Bros." back into the main Donkey Kong series, which will increasingly push him into obscurity until only the memories of yesteryear remind us of his relevance to the series. That's worst case scenario, however.

With Ridley, he will always have detractors, but he will always be present in Metroid. Yes, people will certainly become more pessimistic about his odds, but at least he still qualifies.

That's how I see it, anyways.

 

[?????????????]

Now, all that being said, given Ridley's position, I almost expect him to be playable in SSB4. Without thinking about it, I often talk like he's already been confirmed for the game because I find him to be such an obvious newcomer.

If someone asked me to put down money on whether or not Ridley would be playable in SSB4, I'd put down a good chunk of change for "yes."

All factors considered, I'd honestly be surprised that Little Mac made it, but not Ridley.

 

[Zhadgon]

A Ridley Spin-off would be glorious, it will be a instant buy for me, still a Pipe Dream, anyway what do you think guys about obscure characters like Pockle and Mr. Stevenson if they make it into the game?
.n_n.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Been a while since I've been on this thread, 'Ello everyone.

I walk in on a pretty depressing topic...don't I choose the perfect times. Anyways, I'm pretty sure the fanbases for K.Rool and Ridley will never die down until the characters are finally put into the game as playable characters, and to be honest they should be and it'll be hella surprising if it doesn't happen. I mean, both being large characters, K.Rool being larger than Ridley, with the addition of much bigger stages and both characters adding something in the uniqueness department that others can't, it's literally the perfect time for these two characters to be playable. I mean, they're not on Mewtwo levels of dire, but it's pretty far up there at this point. Not to mention, as much as I love Rosalina as a character in Smash Bros...if DK and Metroid still end up with 2 and 1.5 characters respectively after Super Mario Bros, one of the series' that was originally thought to be one of the LAST franchises to need a newcomer, got a newcomer...it will feel like a kick in the teeth.

That, and I have to say...as bias as it may sound...the Ridley Detractors do not deserve to be happy...at all.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oddly though, I would actually be more upset over the exclusion of Shulk instead of Ridley.

 

[RadRedi]

A Ridley Spin-off would be glorious, it will be a instant buy for me, still a Pipe Dream, anyway what do you think guys about obscure characters like Pockle and Mr. Stevenson if they make it into the game?
.n_n.

Playing as Ridley in any shape or fashion is the coolest idea in the whole wide world.

I had no clue who Pockle was until I looked him up a second ago. Still don't know anything about him. If he got in, I would have a hard time getting excited because no one I know would react in any way except "Who's that?", and I wouldn't be able to tell them why Pockle's deserving of even being there. Honestly, knowing he's an obscure character from the Gamecube-era, it would leave me wondering why Chibi Robo didn't get in, instead, since he actually survived the Gamecube-era.

Mr. Stevenson makes a little more sense, since he's retro. I at least know that much about him. I always get excited when I see a Retro rep make it in, but usually only to a high extent when it's a character I actually know something about (like ROB).

 

[Zhadgon]

Playing as Ridley in any shape or fashion is the coolest idea in the whole wide world.

I had no clue who Pockle was until I looked him up a second ago. Still don't know anything about him. If he got in, I would have a hard time getting excited because no one I know would react in any way except "Who's that?", and I wouldn't be able to tell them why Pockle's deserving of even being there. Honestly, knowing he's an obscure character from the Gamecube-era, it would leave me wondering why Chibi Robo didn't get in, instead, since he actually survived the Gamecube-era.

Mr. Stevenson makes a little more sense, since he's retro. I at least know that much about him. I always get excited when I see a Retro rep make it in, but usually only to a high extent when it's a character I actually know something about (like ROB).

Well for me it will be interesting to see any of those characters (Hakkun, Donbe and Hikari or Mike Anderson) make it into the game because it will be like the first time I saw Ness, Marth, Roy or Mr. Game and Watch where I didn´t know about those characters but with time love them for being unique and introduce me to another Nintendo series that I didn´t know about.
.n_n.