Character Discussion Thread

[Sehnsucht]

He would be my next pick if he had any merit at all. Although, apparently alot if people dislike him. Not quite sure why, I find him delightfuy devious.

I've only played SF64. All I know is that Panther is a Panther.

But Panthers are very cool.

Ergo, Panther for Smash.

 

[ppbto]

The first thing that come in my mind when discussing about Star Fox is how much I want a new Star Fox.
I think Krystal is the only potential Star Fox Newcomer, but she has a large hate-base, so who knows??

 

[False Sense]

A series should not get a character just for the sake of adding someone from that series, and a character should not be held back from being playable because their series is "over-represented." Mario already had the four main characters, yet Rosalina got in due to being unique. A fourth Star Fox character is hardly the worst thing that could happen.

Eh, I still personally disagree with that. I feel like there is such a thing as too much representation; why should Star Fox get such special treatment with it's characters when there are plenty of other series that also have great characters? Why don't we add in someone like Porky from Mother while we're at it, another important, unique character from a series with only a few reps? Or several new Kid Icarus characters, there's plenty of good ones there.

I just think that if we start adding characters to smaller series based simply on the said character and not the series itself, we're going to get a rather odd looking roster, to say the least. However, I'm open to counterarguments, if you think I'm absolutely in the wrong here.

 

[?????????????]

I like her as a character, but I HATE a select majority of her fan base, because they ruined the character I saw her as.

Which way of seeing her are you referring to?

Eh, I still personally disagree with that. I feel like there is such a thing as too much representation; why should Star Fox get such special treatment with it's characters when there are plenty of other series that also have great characters? Why don't we add in someone like Porky from Mother while we're at it, another important, unique character from a series with only a few reps? Or several new Kid Icarus characters, there's plenty of good ones there.

I just think that if we start adding characters to smaller series based simply on the said character and not the series itself, we're going to get a rather odd looking roster, to say the least. However, I'm open to counterarguments, if you think I'm absolutely in the wrong here.

I agree. Without some limitation, there'd be no end to Mario and Pokemon. Those series are so gigantic, with so many popular recurring characters, you could flesh out an entire roster with either.

On the small scale, I would not mind seeing another Star Fox character because it has good characters. On the large scale, we already have 3 Star Fox characters. I'd kinda like to see more Metroid and Donkey Kong characters.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Eh, I still personally disagree with that. I feel like there is such a thing as too much representation; why should Star Fox get such special treatment with it's characters when there are plenty of other series that also have great characters? Why don't we add in someone like Porky from Mother while we're at it, another important, unique character from a series with only a few reps? Or several new Kid Icarus characters, there's plenty of good ones there.

I just think that if we start adding characters to smaller series based simply on the said character and not the series itself, we're going to get a rather odd looking roster, to say the least. However, I'm open to counterarguments, if you think I'm absolutely in the wrong here.

Because we already have Lucas, and according to the "smaller series shouldn't have more reps" argument, two Mother characters with only three Mother games is already pushing it way too far. Ninten is a better choice anyway. So yeah, Lucas already debunks the "reps" thing, bad example there.

It certainly wouldn't make the roster very strange, since there aren't really that many good characters in the first place. Unless you happen to be a blue coloured Pikmin. Taking Star Fox again, we don't want Krystal because we want a Star Fox character, but because we want Krystal, who just happens to be a Star Fox character. Looking at the rest of Star Fox, there are no real viable options (outside of Slippy or something for another Fox clone) so if Krystal is added, that's it.

 

[Joe D.]

Which way of seeing her are you referring to?

When i was younger, I always thought she was interesting in regards to story. I knew she had a backstory that was never fully realized, and I always felt that her character deserved more, so I started to grow fond of her, not to mention that she was an addition to the franchise that didn't annoy me to no avail. Recently, (as in summer of 2013,) I got back into Star Fox, and I learned what a, "furry," was. After I saw the perverted display, I was angry because I really never thought of her as an idol for an erotic display, but now my mind is tainted. In a way, I kind of lost a bit of my childhood innocence from this. (As ridiculous as that seems.) So yeah, that was my view.

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's kind of the same way I feel about Krystal. I like her as a character, but I HATE a select majority of her fan base, because they ruined the character I saw her as.

All the supporters did was fap to explicit pictures of Krystal.

Seriously, I really doubt that Krystal was popular because she was a great choice, but because of her sex appeal courtesy of the misguided more females movement.

 

[Arcanir]

Krystal seems pretty likely when compared to Rosalina:

• Newer character in an older series.
• Not particularly important to the series.
• Decent amount of requests.
• A unique moveset.
• Had/has no reason to be added besides the unique moveset.
• Female.

If Rosalina can get in on a unique moveset, Krystal's almost a given. Plus Sakurai likes Star Fox apparently.

To be honest, I don't consider them to be in the same situation. While they are both new characters to their series that aren't as important as others, Rosalina has more points to her merit then Krystal does. When it comes to Rosalina, she's a very popular character in her series, far outstripping many of her other compatriots to the point that she's gained the status of a "Breakout Character," granted she didn't have as many request, but she's definitely risen to become very notable. Krystal by contrast is popular, but not nearly to the same extent relative to her series, in Japan she's beaten out by those like Leon and Slippy and here she does have a lot more negativity surrounding her (some unfair of course, but still) then Rosalina does. While she does bring her merits, I don't think they're quite to the level Rosalina was at.

So while I do think Krystal brings her own merits, I don't think Rosalina getting in suddenly increases her chances.

All the supporters did was fap to explicit pictures of Krystal.
Seriously, I really doubt that Krystal was popular because she was a great choice, but because of her sex appeal courtesy of the misguided more females movement.

Yeah, it's not like she brings a unique moveset option or people just like the character, it's only because of her good looks alone...

 

[Joe D.]

All the supporters did was fap to explicit pictures of Krystal.

Seriously, I really doubt that Krystal was popular because she was a great choice, but because of her sex appeal courtesy of the misguided more females movement.

That's truly likely, but still, doesn't change my views. I guess i'm that rare person who likes Krystal for something that isn't her....sigh.....appeal.

 

[False Sense]

Because we already have Lucas, and according to the "smaller series shouldn't have more reps" argument, two Mother characters with only three Mother games is already pushing it way too far. Ninten is a better choice anyway. So yeah, Lucas already debunks the "reps" thing, bad example there.

It certainly wouldn't make the roster very strange, since there aren't really that many good characters in the first place. Unless you happen to be a blue coloured Pikmin. Taking Star Fox again, we don't want Krystal because we want a Star Fox character, but because we want Krystal, who just happens to be a Star Fox character. Looking at the rest of Star Fox, there are no real viable options (outside of Slippy or something for another Fox clone) so if Krystal is added, that's it.

I wouldn't quite say that Lucas completely debunks the rep argument. Mother is a small series, but it only has two characters total. I think that's reasonable enough for a small, yet successful and popular series. On the other hand, I would say that having four characters for a relatively small series is pushing it. This is the number of characters that Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, Nintendo's all-time biggest franchises, had in Brawl AND Melee (with the exception of Mario, who had five). To suddenly put Star Fox on their level, especially when a lot of people are saying we won't get a new Zelda character even, seems really out of place. Are we really saying that Star Fox is equal to Legend of Zelda?

And I would still ask why we don't see more great characters from smaller series if representation doesn't matter. Again, the Mother series has plenty of great characters, but we only have two at the moment. What about F-Zero, or Kid Icarus for a more modern example?

 

[Sehnsucht]

At this point, in addition to the five confirmed Newcomers (and assuming no Brawl cuts), I think the following are the most probable additions to expect:

-DK Newcomer (Dixie (and/)or K Rool)
-Fire Emblem Newcomer (Chrom, Robin, Lucina, or whoever else)
-Palutena
-[Mewtwo]
-Takamaru

And these are somewhat less assured, but still greatly possible:

-Ridley
-One or two Newcomers from heretofore non-represented franchises (take your picks)

So 12-13 + Mewtwo (and with No Cuts leading to a ~50-char roster). Anything more, and from whichever series new and old, is where divining probabilities becomes a far more hazy affair, IMO.

 

[?????????????]

When i was younger, I always thought she was interesting in regards to story. I knew she had a backstory that was never fully realized, and I always felt that her character deserved more, so I started to grow fond of her, not to mention that she was an addition to the franchise that didn't annoy me to no avail. Recently, (as in summer of 2013,) I got back into Star Fox, and I learned what a, "furry," was. After I saw the perverted display, I was angry because I really never thought of her as an idol for an erotic display, but now my mind is tainted. In a way, I kind of lost a bit of my childhood innocence from this. (As ridiculous as that seems.) So yeah, that was my view.

I get that you were younger and didn't think of that, but I can't feel angry towards those who did. Honestly, it was highly up-played in context. The revealing outfit, the "sexy sax" theme song she was given, the angles she was shown at... it's not just the fanbase, the creators were intentionally making her out this way.

However, I do think she offers a fighting style and powers that would be unique and valuable to SSB, and is significant as a character.

 

[FlareHabanero]

That's truly likely, but still, doesn't change my views. I guess i'm that rare person who likes Krystal for something that isn't her....sigh.....appeal.

Even her sex appeal fails miserably considering she's a anthropomorphic blue fox with a really creepy face.

I can't be the only person that has a problem with this.

 

[Joe D.]

Even her sex appeal fails miserably considering she's a anthropomorphic blue fox with a really creepy face.

I can't be the only person that has a problem with this.

I can agree that it fails, although I wouldn't be fond of her if i was creeped out haha. It just is so odd to me that people could go to such extremities to make her a sex icon. I mean, like @ ????????????? said, it was a bit in context, but just the fact that it was a wildfire spread through the years is just odd. I guess that's the internet for ya.

Oh, and in regards to what you said pizza, I really never noticed things like that in games as a kid, (although at my current age it was blatantly obvious.)

 

[False Sense]

At this point, in addition to the five confirmed Newcomers (and assuming no Brawl cuts), I think the following are the most probable additions to expect:

-DK Newcomer (Dixie (and/)or K Rool)
-Fire Emblem Newcomer (Chrom, Robin, Lucina, or whoever else)
-Palutena
-[Mewtwo]
-Takamaru

And these are somewhat less assured, but still greatly possible:

-Ridley
-One or two Newcomers from heretofore non-represented franchises (take your picks)

So 12-13 + Mewtwo (and with No Cuts leading to a ~50-char roster). Anything more, and from whichever series new and old, is where divining probabilities becomes a far more hazy affair, IMO.

Sounds about right to me. A retro that could be revived seems like a guarantee at this point, considering what's been said regarding that, and I think Takamaru is one of the more likely ones for that. DK and Fire Emblem also seem like priorities considering their overall success and popularity, especially as of late with their recent games. Normally, I'd say Palutena would be a more low priority character, but that leak seems to suggest otherwise. I don't think Mewtwo, or any 5th Pokemon character for that matter, needs explaining. I might say that you could switch out one of those slots for Ridley, but while it seems likely, it's still up in the air.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Sounds about right to me. A retro that could be revived seems like a guarantee at this point, considering what's been said regarding that, and I think Takamaru is one of the more likely ones for that. DK and Fire Emblem also seem like priorities considering their overall success and popularity, especially as of late with their recent games. Normally, I'd say Palutena would be a more low priority character, but that leak seems to suggest otherwise. I don't think Mewtwo, or any 5th Pokemon character for that matter, needs explaining. I might say that you could switch out one of those slots for Ridley, but while it seems likely, it's still up in the air.

I suspect that Palutena could get in on her own merits, regardless of the veracity of the photo leak (given her prominence in Uprising, among various other factors). If she isn't part of the first "tier" of my breakdown, then she certainly could fit into the second (alongside Ridley and whoever else).

Also, I think I might be confused about your last sentence there. Are you suggesting that Ridley's place in the "lesser" tier should be replaced by someone else?

Given this breakdown, it's kind of convenient that I've ended up drawn to the Ridley-K Rool-Mewtwo trifecta (and Takamaru, I guess). They all have very strong cases backing their chances. I could live if only two of the three made it in. Of them, I'm fairly confident in deeming Mewtwo a given; anything other than his inclusion would be an exercise in whiplash WTFery. XD

 

[False Sense]

I suspect that Palutena could get in on her own merits, regardless of the veracity of the photo leak (given her prominence in Uprising, among various other factors). If she isn't part of the first "tier" of my breakdown, then she certainly could fit into the second (alongside Ridley and whoever else).

Also, I think I might be confused about your last sentence there. Are you suggesting that Ridley's place in the "lesser" tier should be replaced by someone else?

Given this breakdown, it's kind of convenient that I've ended up drawn to the Ridley-K Rool-Mewtwo trifecta (and Takamaru, I guess). They all have very strong cases backing their chances. I could live if only two of the three made it in. Of them, I'm fairly confident in deeming Mewtwo a given; anything other than his inclusion would be an exercise in whiplash WTFery. XD

Well, with Ridley I meant to say that a new Metroid character, specifically Ridley, should by all means be a likely choice, possibly as one of those top five, but at the same time, Ridley's controversial nature makes him a little difficult to place. So I'd say he's likely, but at the same time he's more prone to something weird happening to him (like a stage hazard role) then other top five choices. ...I guess that is kind of confusing, I hope that's still comprehensible...

 

[JamesDNaux]

I wouldn't quite say that Lucas completely debunks the rep argument. Mother is a small series, but it only has two characters total. I think that's reasonable enough for a small, yet successful and popular series. On the other hand, I would say that having four characters for a relatively small series is pushing it. This is the number of characters that Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, Nintendo's all-time biggest franchises, had in Brawl AND Melee (with the exception of Mario, who had five). To suddenly put Star Fox on their level, especially when a lot of people are saying we won't get a new Zelda character even, seems really out of place. Are we really saying that Star Fox is equal to Legend of Zelda?

And I would still ask why we don't see more great characters from smaller series if representation doesn't matter. Again, the Mother series has plenty of great characters, but we only have two at the moment. What about F-Zero, or Kid Icarus for a more modern example?

Star Fox is a small but successful series, Mother is an even smaller and not very successful series. Three games, two of which never made it outside of Japan, with EarthBound not selling that well even though it was ported, plus the series has been officially declared dead by its creator. If Mother could have three, then Star Fox could surely have four by this logic. It's not about "putting Star Fox on their level," that's ridiculous, if a series importance was based upon how many characters they have, then somehow Pokemon is more important than Mario. And no, again, same amount of characters =/= as important as each other, so no it isn't equal to Zelda (which has five characters anyway, not four).

Again, there needs to be characters in the first place. As we already know from the Mother series itself, Sakurai chose Lucas, and unless he decides to make either Ninten or Pokey playable, there isn't anyone else to chose from. I know others feel differently, but F-Zero is a racing game, it doesn't exactly have any viable characters besides Goroh, Falcon himself already has a completely made up moveset. Everyone is expecting a Kid Icarus character anyway, so I don't see why you brought that one up.

Another big thing that kills the rep excuse, is that you're saying a smaller series like Star Fox shouldn't be equal (in characters) to a larger series like Zelda. Star Fox is already more represented than Metroid, a bigger franchise.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Well, with Ridley I meant to say that a new Metroid character, specifically Ridley, should by all means be a likely choice, possibly as one of those top five, but at the same time, Ridley's controversial nature makes him a little difficult to place. So I'd say he's likely, but at the same time he's more prone to something weird happening to him (like a stage hazard role) then other top five choices. ...I guess that is kind of confusing, I hope that's still comprehensible...

That's the reason I bumped him down a tier. He has every theoretical reason to get in; it's just that Sakurai's very oblique approach toward Pyrosphere and Stage Hazards/Elements throws doubt into the mix. Maybe a more accurate breakdown (in no particular order of precedence) would be:

-DK Newcomer (Dixie or K Rool)
-Ridley*
-[Mewtwo]
-Fire Emblem Newcomer
-Palutena*
-Takamaru

-One or two Newcomers from heretofore non-represented franchises
-A fourth Third-Party character, from Namco-Bandai or otherwise (or third character, in the unlikely event of Snake's cut)*
-A second retro/historical character after Takamaru (Lip, Duck Hunt, Mach Rider, etc.)*
-Playable Miis*

The asterisks represent more tenuous positions. Ridley (and possibly Palutena) have an air of doubt in their otherwise strong cases. I fully expect Miis to show up in the game in some form, but whether as playable characters or something else is nearly impossible to assess with any certainty.

As for Third-Parties and retro/historical/obscure picks, that's up to Sakurai and Friends; I would not be at all suprised if these additions made it in, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't (I would only be surprised for Snake's exclusion).

 

[False Sense]

Star Fox is a small but successful series, Mother is an even smaller and not very successful series. Three games, two of which never made it outside of Japan, with EarthBound not selling that well even though it was ported, plus the series has been officially declared dead by its creator. If Mother could have three, then Star Fox could surely have four by this logic. It's not about "putting Star Fox on their level," that's ridiculous, if a series importance was based upon how many characters they have, then somehow Pokemon is more important than Mario. And no, again, same amount of characters =/= as important as each other, so no it isn't equal to Zelda (which has five characters anyway, not four).

Again, there needs to be characters in the first place. As we already know from the Mother series itself, Sakurai chose Lucas, and unless he decides to make either Ninten or Pokey playable, there isn't anyone else to chose from. I know others feel differently, but F-Zero is a racing game, it doesn't exactly have any viable characters besides Goroh, Falcon himself already has a completely made up moveset. Everyone is expecting a Kid Icarus character anyway, so I don't see why you brought that one up.

Another big thing that kills the rep excuse, is that you're saying a smaller series like Star Fox shouldn't be equal (in characters) to a larger series like Zelda. Star Fox is already more represented than Metroid, a bigger franchise.

I get the feeling I may have been unclear about what I was saying. My argument was that, if representation does in fact mean nothing at all, why does a series like Mother only have two characters? There ARE characters that could be pulled from that, like Ninten, Porky, Claus, or even Giygas. Those last three especially could be great characters in Smash, so why don't we have them? My reasoning is that the series is too small to be given that much representation. I personally do not support any of those characters, and am merely using them as examples.

Going off of that, you mention that F-Zero doesn't have any viable characters besides Goroh; but why don't we have Goroh? He's an important character that has unique potential? Why not have him in? As for Kid Icarus, true, most people expect Palutena nowadays, but there are a ton of great characters from Uprising alone. If representation doesn't matter, and we're going strictly by what the character has to offer, why not add in more of those great characters? Why not have Pit, Palutena, Medusa and Hades playable? There are good characters present in all these series, so why don't we have them? Again, I would argue that both of these series don't need or necessarily deserve that amount of representation.

As for the Star Fox versus Metroid argument, I'm going to use what you said and say that there has to be characters. Metroid is sort of lacking that. Aside from Samus, Ridley, and a host of other monsters, there aren't many recurring, important characters that could plausibly be made into Smash fighters. We already have (more than one) Samus, and Ridley has a lot of unpleasant stuff surrounding him being a character that would be best left out of this. So I think it makes sense that the Metroid series, which has few viable character options, has less characters than series that, while smaller, have good character options, like Star Fox.

 

[Lasifer]

Ridley is one of the most likely newcomers at this point. Shoot me in the foot if I'm wrong, but I think he's a shoe-in. To use one of my previous arguments...
Sakurai's a troll, but he's not a ****. He's not going to hype up the appearance of who is possibly the most requested character in the west for months and then reveal him as a stage hazard, and if he is a stage hazard, there's no way he wouldn't be revealed pre-release. We've seen the stage plenty of times, more than a lot of others, he would have been shown by now. Sakurai also clearly listens to the west's character demands, as shown by Little Mac. Not to mention, Ridley can be a hazard and still be playable, there's multiple forms and clones of him.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I get the feeling I may have been unclear about what I was saying. My argument was that, if representation does in fact mean nothing at all, why does a series like Mother only have two characters? There ARE characters that could be pulled from that, like Ninten, Porky, Claus, or even Giygas. Those last three especially could be great characters in Smash, so why don't we have them? My reasoning is that the series is too small to be given that much representation. I personally do not support any of those characters, and am merely using them as examples.

What we see may not be what Sakurai sees, Lucas was already unique enough from Ness, yet still borrowed some moves. If even Lucas can't be unique enough, then there isn't very much else to go on, particularly for Claus. Pokey can't really do anything outside of his mech, and having him fight in his mech is a bit unfeasible, while Giygas is just completely a fan idea, a swirling mass of red isn't much of a playable character. Giygas lost his bodily form, which was Giegue.

Going off of that, you mention that F-Zero doesn't have any viable characters besides Goroh; but why don't we have Goroh? He's an important character that has unique potential? Why not have him in? As for Kid Icarus, true, most people expect Palutena nowadays, but there are a ton of great characters from Uprising alone. If representation doesn't matter, and we're going strictly by what the character has to offer, why not add in more of those great characters? Why not have Pit, Palutena, Medusa and Hades playable? There are good characters present in all these series, so why don't we have them? Again, I would argue that both of these series don't need or necessarily deserve that amount of representation.

Again, Falcon's moveset is completely made up, Goroh only has any sort of viability due to having a sword, he'd still have to have an entire moveset be BS'd out of nowhere. As for KI characters, it'd be really doubtful to get more than one character from a series at once this time. Viridi is better than the other choices anyway.

As for the Star Fox versus Metroid argument, I'm going to use what you said and say that there has to be characters. Metroid is sort of lacking that. Aside from Samus, Ridley, and a host of other monsters, there aren't many recurring, important characters that could plausibly be made into Smash fighters. We already have (more than one) Samus, and Ridley has a lot of unpleasant stuff surrounding him being a character that would be best left out of this. So I think it makes sense that the Metroid series, which has few viable character options, has less characters than series that, while smaller, have good character options, like Star Fox.

Well you just helped my point, larger series don't get more characters just for the sake of having more, they get whatever is viable. Of course, fans want Ridley, but Sakurai has said that he would have trouble with it, which is probably why he hasn't tried it before. Star Fox gave two easy clone-like characters, particularly Falco who only got in because he was a clone, it has three characters now because it was easy to slap Falco and Wolf on at the last minute. Krystal being added this time wouldn't be giving Star Fox more attention, it'd actually be Sakurai not giving Star Fox the shaft for once with the notion of "there are only clones in Star Fox."

 

[MagnesD3]

I want Krystal because Im a HUGE starfox fan and I find her to be important to the franchise and having a really unique easy to make moveset, the only character I want more than her is Ridley for obvious reasons...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Pokey can't really do anything outside of his mech, and having him fight in his mech is a bit unfeasible

Two words.

Tron Bonne.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Two words.

Tron Bonne.

Well all I got from a Google search of that was hentai.
Not very comparable.

One is a humanoid mech that looks to be made for fighting , while one is some kind of awkward spider shape that walks like a crab

 

[False Sense]

What we see may not be what Sakurai sees, Lucas was already unique enough from Ness, yet still borrowed some moves. If even Lucas can't be unique enough, then there isn't very much else to go on, particularly for Claus. Pokey can't really do anything outside of his mech, and having him fight in his mech is a bit unfeasible, while Giygas is just completely a fan idea, a swirling mass of red isn't much of a playable character. Giygas lost his bodily form, which was Giegue.

I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that Claus and Porkey aren't feasible characters. Porky, perhaps, but Claus has plenty of potential thanks to his sword, PK abilities, arm cannon, and of course that big lightning bolt he uses. They wouldn't have to make up much to make a workable moveset, and I don't think that's the reason for his absence on the roster. Speaking of which...

Again, Falcon's moveset is completely made up, Goroh only has any sort of viability due to having a sword, he'd still have to have an entire moveset be BS'd out of nowhere. As for KI characters, it'd be really doubtful to get more than one character from a series at once this time. Viridi is better than the other choices anyway.

I don't think having a moveset made out of nothing is a bad thing. We have plenty of characters that already do that, such as Falcon, Ice Climbers, R.O.B, Rosalina, etc. All of them have movesets that were more or less made up. You can't just say it works with all these other characters and then say Goroh is an exception and should be excluded because of it. He at least has more to work with than Falcon did. And as for Kid Icarus getting more than one rep this time around, plenty of other series have gotten more than one rep in one installment. For example, Kirby got two characters after having only one for the last two games. If representation is not an issue, then the fact that we have so many great Kid Icarus characters now means we should have no problem introducing more than one this time around. However, I still think representation is an issue, and therefore we probably won't see more than one.

Well you just helped my point, larger series don't get more characters just for the sake of having more, they get whatever is viable. Of course, fans want Ridley, but Sakurai has said that he would have trouble with it, which is probably why he hasn't tried it before. Star Fox gave two easy clone-like characters, particularly Falco who only got in because he was a clone, it has three characters now because it was easy to slap Falco and Wolf on at the last minute. Krystal being added this time wouldn't be giving Star Fox more attention, it'd actually be Sakurai not giving Star Fox the shaft for once with the notion of "there are only clones in Star Fox."

Yeah, we shouldn't add characters for the sake of simply having more characters. We certainly shouldn't add in random enemy #42 as a new character for the sake of having a new character. But I digress.

I guess the main thing I'm trying to say is that, even if there are good characters in a series, that doesn't mean we have to add them in, and I think representation is the reason for that. There's a reason why we have more Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon characters than all the other series, but at the same time, there's a reason why we don't have every good character that has ever existed in those series. Those series are deserving of having those large selections of characters compared to the other series, but there are plenty of characters from those series that will miss out because we can't just add in every good character from those series. Star Fox, the way I see it, is not as deserving of as many character slots as bigger series, and just because Krystal is a good character from that series who would be a unique fighter in Smash, that doesn't mean we have to add her in.

Responses in blue. I hope I managed to get my point across. I'm afraid I still remain unconvinced that representation means absolutely nothing in Smash.

 

[MagnesD3]

Well all I got from a Google search of that was hentai.
Not very comparable.

One is a humanoid mech that looks to be made for fighting , while one is some kind of awkward spider shape that walks like a crab

Porky for smash :3

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Dunno how the "fighting inside the mech" thing would work best, but there's this...

He doesn't wear parts of his mech on his back in the games, but it doesn't hurt to improvise.

----

 

[Arcanir]

Well you just helped my point, larger series don't get more characters just for the sake of having more, they get whatever is viable. Of course, fans want Ridley, but Sakurai has said that he would have trouble with it, which is probably why he hasn't tried it before. Star Fox gave two easy clone-like characters, particularly Falco who only got in because he was a clone, it has three characters now because it was easy to slap Falco and Wolf on at the last minute. Krystal being added this time wouldn't be giving Star Fox more attention, it'd actually be Sakurai not giving Star Fox the shaft for once with the notion of "there are only clones in Star Fox."

That goes both ways though, to Sakurai, Falco and Wolf could be completely good representation for the series regardless of that stigma. Similarly, while you do argue that larger series shouldn't get more characters just for being larger, doesn't that ignore that those large series have characters to pick from? Mario and Pokémon have a ton of options that are popular and wanted, hell, before Rosalina's inclusion we were arguing over Toad, Bowser Jr., Waluigi and others, all of which bring something to the table. Just because it's large doesn't mean they don't exist, the larger series are perfectly capable of giving a lot of characters to Smash, but they aren't given that many because there is a warranted restriction on that.

Star Fox can be seen in the same boat, it has a lot of characters to give, but still can fall under having the same restrictions larger series have. Just because the options exists doesn't mean all of them have to be used, sometimes there's that line that is drawn between adding all of these characters and balancing it out relative to the rest of the roster.

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well all I got from a Google search of that was hentai.
Not very comparable.

One is a humanoid mech that looks to be made for fighting , while one is some kind of awkward spider shape that walks like a crab

Super Smash Bros. Crusade.

Porky is a playable character and everything, and he works perfectly fine.

Besides, the main point of the argument was more so disproving that a character piloting a mech would of been impossible in a fighting game, considering other games out there have already done it before.

 

[Arcadenik]

Even her sex appeal fails miserably considering she's a anthropomorphic blue fox with a really creepy face.

I can't be the only person that has a problem with this.

Creepy face?! How dare you! Look at her O face! So hot! *fapfapfapfap*

 

[Lasifer]

I think a resized Mother 2 Porky mech would work fine.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Responses in blue. I hope I managed to get my point across. I'm afraid I still remain unconvinced that representation means absolutely nothing in Smash.

I never said it means absolutely nothing, it plays some kind of a role, but it doesn't dictate the entire roster.

I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that Claus and Porkey aren't feasible characters. Porky, perhaps, but Claus has plenty of potential thanks to his sword, PK abilities, arm cannon, and of course that big lightning bolt he uses. They wouldn't have to make up much to make a workable moveset, and I don't think that's the reason for his absence on the roster. Speaking of which...

Mostly referring to Pokey, who as I said before, would be incredibly awkward, at least in his Brawl form. I never said Claus isn't feasible, he does have much to work with but so did Lucas, who Claus would probably end up being more similar to, being his twin brother. Like how Luigi has a large amount of things to work with but ultimately still has similarities to Mario.

I don't think having a moveset made out of nothing is a bad thing. We have plenty of characters that already do that, such as Falcon, Ice Climbers, R.O.B, Rosalina, etc. All of them have movesets that were more or less made up. You can't just say it works with all these other characters and then say Goroh is an exception and should be excluded because of it. He at least has more to work with than Falcon did. And as for Kid Icarus getting more than one rep this time around, plenty of other series have gotten more than one rep in one installment. For example, Kirby got two characters after having only one for the last two games. If representation is not an issue, then the fact that we have so many great Kid Icarus characters now means we should have no problem introducing more than one this time around. However, I still think representation is an issue, and therefore we probably won't see more than one.

True, I just don't find much point in adding more characters from a racing game (who all function exactly the same in the source material), personally. I like that you said that about the multiple characters though, I used that same argument for why DK could get two newcomers this time. It is very true, though Sakurai probably wouldn't do it for Kid Icarus, seeing as (besides Medusa), he created all the other viable KI characters.

I guess the main thing I'm trying to say is that, even if there are good characters in a series, that doesn't mean we have to add them in, and I think representation is the reason for that. There's a reason why we have more Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon characters than all the other series, but at the same time, there's a reason why we don't have every good character that has ever existed in those series. Those series are deserving of having those large selections of characters compared to the other series, but there are plenty of characters from those series that will miss out because we can't just add in every good character from those series. Star Fox, the way I see it, is not as deserving of as many character slots as bigger series, and just because Krystal is a good character from that series who would be a unique fighter in Smash, that doesn't mean we have to add her in.

I understand your position on this matter and I respect that, this isn't something we can debate over as it's a matter of opinion. Though just like there are people who wanted a Mario character, or people who want Ridley, there are people who want Krystal. I don't think she's very likely, I just like to hope because I personally want to see her in the game. There are plenty of valid reasons for people to not want her in the game, and I don't mind that, but "too many Star Fox reps" is just a poor excuse. So is furry hate, but that's a given.

 

[Starcutter]

Porky would be a welcome addition especially where it counts. In my book!

 

[False Sense]

I never said it means absolutely nothing, it plays some kind of a role, but it doesn't dictate the entire roster.
Mostly referring to Pokey, who as I said before, would be incredibly awkward, at least in his Brawl form. I never said Claus isn't feasible, he does have much to work with but so did Lucas, who Claus would probably end up being more similar to, being his twin brother. Like how Luigi has a large amount of things to work with but ultimately still has similarities to Mario.
True, I just don't find much point in adding more characters from a racing game (who all function exactly the same in the source material), personally. I like that you said that about the multiple characters though, I used that same argument for why DK could get two newcomers this time. It is very true, though Sakurai probably wouldn't do it for Kid Icarus, seeing as (besides Medusa), he created all the other viable KI characters.
I understand your position on this matter and I respect that, this isn't something we can debate over as it's a matter of opinion. Though just like there are people who wanted a Mario character, or people who want Ridley, there are people who want Krystal. I don't think she's very likely, I just like to hope because I personally want to see her in the game. There are plenty of valid reasons for people to not want her in the game, and I don't mind that, but "too many Star Fox reps" is just a poor excuse. So is furry hate, but that's a given.

Well, I guess we've reached a point of personal opinion. Neither of us seem to be convincing the other anytime soon. I still hold my belief that representation is important, and that therefore "too many Star Fox reps" is not a poor excuse of an argument, but you're entitled to your opinion as well, and it doesn't seem like either of will be changing our minds. Guess we'll just have to see what happens.

On another note, it seems we accidentally sparked up a Porky conversation. I guess that's an improvement over the routine Fire Emblem discussions.

 

[Croph]

Man, why whenever I quickly read the name "Porky" I always mispronounce it as "pocky"?

Speaking of pocky, that should totally be a new consumable food item.

Anyway, if Sakurai could make Porky a worthwhile addition, then I wouldn't mind his inclusion, though Masked Man is my most wanted Mother newcomer. However, I'm content with the Mother character we have now, I just wish Lucas used more abilities that he uses in-game, not from other characters. He even steals Duster's Rope Snake, that little bugger!

 

[Pacack]

I would much rather have Giygas/Giegue myself, but Porky would be cool in his mech from Mother 2 (I think that's the one? The sort of grayish-brown one that'd kinda round?).

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't mind Lucas and Ness using attacks they don't actually know in canon, mainly because it doesn't really hurt much in the end anyway. Super Smash Bros. isn't really a series that is canon to any series (barring rare canon immigration situations), so it shouldn't be much of an issue anyway. Besides, it's at least handwaved via the trophies that Ness and Lucas were taught those attacks from Paula/Kumatora, so it technically isn't completely random.

You just got to remember that with a series like Super Smash Bros., it can get away with liberties. If it's for the sake of fleshing out a moveset, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Well, I guess we've reached a point of personal opinion. Neither of us seem to be convincing the other anytime soon. I still hold my belief that representation is important, and that therefore "too many Star Fox reps" is not a poor excuse of an argument, but you're entitled to your opinion as well, and it doesn't seem like either of will be changing our minds. Guess we'll just have to see what happens.

On another note, it seems we accidentally sparked up a Porky conversation. I guess that's an improvement over the routine Fire Emblem discussions.

I just think that a character not getting in solely because "well we filled up the imaginary limit of how many characters this series gets" is a load of it.

I'm torn on Pokey, since I feel that Giegue would be a far better choice for a villain, though Pokey is the more viable. But I don't want Pokey or Claus, because then there would be two characters from either Mother 2 or 3, while the first game gets the shaft. This is why I prefer Ninten overall, since it'd be all three protagonists.

 

[Arcadenik]

I just think that a character not getting in solely because "well we filled up the imaginary limit of how many characters this series gets" is a load of it.

I'm torn on Pokey, since I feel that Giegue would be a far better choice for a villain, though Pokey is the more viable. But I don't want Pokey or Claus, because then there would be two characters from either Mother 2 or 3, while the first game gets the shaft. This is why I prefer Ninten overall, since it'd be all three protagonists.

Giegue or Mewtwo. Pick one. I have the Latina girl bound and gagged.