Character Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

@ FinalStarmen , @ Big-Cat : Hey, guys when you're gonna use defenses that Ike and Rosalina weren't clones, you should probably remember that in order to be a clone you have to be ABLE to perform the abilities of the person you are a clone of. Where as Rosalina has no vegetables, parasols, or sports gear and Ike has a different sword type of a different weight.

But, even then they share like one or two abilities.

 

[FinalStarmen]

My presence was absent during the pre-E3 2013 speculative time period, so I must ask: were there any serious suggestions of Raiden performing as Solid Snake's replacement, in similar vein to the senseless "Lucina replacing Marth" rubbish?

EDIT: What exactly do I have to do with the above post?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

EDIT: What exactly do I have to do with the above post?

You used Rosalina to say Samurai Goroh wouldn't be a clone when Rosalina can't even be a clone of Peach. Where as Goroh can easily be a clone of Captain Falcon.

 

[Big-Cat]

@ FinalStarmen , @ Big-Cat : Hey, guys when you're gonna use defenses that Ike and Rosalina weren't clones, you should probably remember that in order to be a clone you have to be ABLE to perform the abilities of the person you are a clone of. Where as Rosalina has no vegetables, parasols, or sports gear and Ike has a different sword type of a different weight.

But, even then they share like one or two abilities.

So how is it then that Goroh has a katana but could be a Falcon clone?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So how is it then that Goroh has a katana but could be a Falcon clone?

...You're saying that because somebody has something that they can't perform any moves that don't use it???

That does it. I give up.

 

[Big-Cat]

Explain why Ganondorf has yet to use his sword in Smash Bros. Tell me why.

 

[FlareHabanero]

My presence was absent during the pre-E3 2013 speculative time period, so I must ask: were there any serious suggestions of Raiden performing as Solid Snake's replacement, in similar vein to the senseless "Lucina replacing Marth" rubbish?

Probably on GameFAQs or NeoGAF, most likely.

 

[Kenith]

...You're saying that because somebody has something that they can't perform any moves that don't use it???
That does it. I give up.

You give up on something? That's new.

Lucina is awesome. Give up on that one too plz.

This is why I want alternate costumes to be a thing.
The amount of MORE fan service is right there.

Ordon Link plz.

 

[FinalStarmen]

You used Rosalina to say Samurai Goroh wouldn't be a clone when Rosalina can't even be a clone of Peach. Where as Goroh can easily be a clone of Captain Falcon.

When was this? Are you absolutely certain this was not another forum member, because I distinctly remember avoiding direct participation of this unavailing conversation, through a lack of posting on the particular subject.


I urge a change of course for the current discussion, because neither you nor the opposing party will be convinced otherwise as to your modes of persuasion.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I urge a change of course for the current discussion, because neither you nor the opposing party will be convinced otherwise as to your modes of persuasion.

Lucina is awesome.

There's your new topic, discussing Louisiana.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

What are the odds that Solid Snake could end up with his Old Snake incarnation?

Not impossible, but I see it as an alt.

 

[Eight Melodies]

Louisiana could only ever be a clone of a boot.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I just don't understand how Goroh would end up as a clone at the end of it. From what I can remember, Goroh is stockier than Falcon, being shorter and wider. Falcon has a more athletic body type than Goroh.

I think the extent of his body type being similar to Falcon is that he's a human. He's not the same shape like Ganondorf is to Falcon. I think Goroh is more like Wario as far as his proportions.

Spoiler

You have this:

Versus this:

Now obviously, Goroh isn't standing upright. But he still is fatter and is certainly not athletic looking.
That's just my stance on the Goroh conversation.

 

[Big-Cat]

Louisiana sucks, especially in the New Orleans area. It took us years to actually get good concerts and everything to come there.

I think Kojima will say Solid Snake won't return only to replaced by Big Boss.

@ Scoliosis Jones
Sorry, but there is no one shape for athleticism.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Louisiana could only ever be a clone of a boot.

So, Louisiana will be a clone of King K. Rool?

 

[Kenith]

I honestly think most F-Zero characters, similarly to WarioWare characters, are not complex or outstanding enough to warrant playable inclusion. But that's me.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

My presence was absent during the pre-E3 2013 speculative time period, so I must ask: were there any serious suggestions of Raiden performing as Solid Snake's replacement, in similar vein to the senseless "Lucina replacing Marth" rubbish?

Not from what I remember, no. People have never really had any interest in any second Metal Gear character.

I think I remember that there were some idiots people who said that Raiden would be "off-limits" because of PSAS. But really, as far as Metal Gear goes it's pretty much just been Snake, Big Boss, or nobody at all.

There's your new topic, discussing Louisiana.

Bama>Louisiana

#RollTide

 

[Big-Cat]

So, Louisiana will be a clone of King K. Rool?

No, it'll be a clone of Italy.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

@ Scoliosis Jones
Sorry, but there is no one shape for athleticism.

Fine, then at the very least the direct comparison is that Falcon has a different shape than Goroh. They aren't the exact same size by any stretch.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

@ FinalStarmen , @ Big-Cat : Hey, guys when you're gonna use defenses that Ike and Rosalina weren't clones, you should probably remember that in order to be a clone you have to be ABLE to perform the abilities of the person you are a clone of. Where as Rosalina has no vegetables, parasols, or sports gear and Ike has a different sword type of a different weight.

But, even then they share like one or two abilities.

Replace vegetables, parasols, and sports gear with cosmic vegetables, parasols, and sports gear.

Instant Peach clone.

In all seriousness, people are referring to the functionality of moves rather than the moves themselves. If were to Rosalina have the same functionality as Peach in summoning star-bits, a force-field around her wand, and concentrated star-dust in place of the aforementioned "Peach-only abilities", then hey, even though the aesthetics are completely different, she'd still be a Peach clone.

You've mentioned you wanted to be a game designer, right? When talking about Rosalina as a Peach clone, why isn't the aspect of gameplay apparent before the aspect of moveset aesthetics, if that's the case? Just seems like a conflicting mindset to have...

 

[Joe D.]

Shouldn't the term, "Samurai," be enough to give Goroh a sword, and not be a semi-clone?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Shouldn't the term, "Samurai," be enough to give Goroh a sword, and not be a semi-clone?

The samurai title is an in name only type thing, because he lacks the chivalry or honor typically associated with samurai.

 

[BKupa666]

There is a difference between 'is highly likely to be a clone' and 'has notable clone potential.' Some characters are one or the other while some are both. Rosalina certainly had clone potential, but Sakurai chose the Luma mechanic approach instead. Samurai Goroh is quite clearly neither, however (at least with Falcon; Takamaru is possible, but still a major stretch).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Rosalina certainly had clone potential. Samurai Goroh is quite clearly neither

Lol, other way around.

 

[BKupa666]

Lol, other way around.

Spoiler

Speaking of DK, aren't you one of the people who insists that Dixie can't possibly become a Diddy semi-clone? Talk about glass houses.

 

[Starcutter]

Lol, other way around.

uh, do you mean that you think Goroh is most likely going to be a clone?

Spoiler

lol that gif was from SSoHPKC's DKTF playthrough. that was hilarious when I saw it in the video!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I just don't understand how Goroh would end up as a clone at the end of it. From what I can remember, Goroh is stockier than Falcon, being shorter and wider.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

That's not even close to the same differences between Falcon and Goroh. Pichu and Pikachu are the same types of Pokemon and can perform the same attacks. They wouldn't need to be the same size to do the same attacks anyway. It actually makes sense for Pichu to be a clone of Pikachu considering they're a part of the same evolutionary line.

We're talking human sizes. Not these Pokemon who play by different rules.

 

[False Sense]

Can someone remind me why we're arguing over Goroh being a clone? Why would Goroh be made a clone in the first place, unless they're running low on development time and add him in as a last minute character? There's no need for him to be a clone; he has unique potential that they will certainly want to utilize if it's within their capabilities.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Speaking of DK, aren't you one of the people who insists that Dixie can't possibly become a Diddy semi-clone? Talk about glass houses.

When did you hear that???

uh, do you mean that you think Goroh is most likely going to be a clone?

Based on what's happened in the past with other semi-clones, of course.

Can someone remind me why we're arguing over Goroh being a clone? Why would Goroh be made a clone in the first place, unless they're running low on development time and add him in as a last minute character? There's no need for him to be a clone; he has unique potential that they will certainly want to utilize if it's within their capabilities.

Yeah, that's what they all said. And then look what happened to Lucas, Toon Link, and Ganondorf.

 

[Baskerville]

It's at the point now where newcomers have to bring something new or just simply being unique with help from their source material, adding in a clone character isn't going to help.

 

[False Sense]

Yeah, that's what they all said. And then look what happened to Lucas, Toon Link, and Ganondorf.

Ganondorf and Toon Link, I believe, were characters added in later in development, which fits in with what I just said. Lucas, on the other hand, is not really that much of a clone. His standard moves are actually quite different from those of Ness, the only real similarities being in their specials. That makes him more of a semi-clone than anything else.

Also, you didn't answer my main question; why are we arguing about this in the first place?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yeah, that's what they all said. And then look what happened to Lucas, Toon Link, and Ganondorf.

I don't think it's fair to use Ganondorf or Toon Link in this argument, because Ganondorf was added as a last minute filler clone, and Toon Link was and still is meant to be a clone. That's arguably his schtick. Especially because of how Sakurai sees him.

Smash 4 is a game focusing on uniqueness with character inclusions, so if Goroh is added, I would like to think they would attempt to make him fairly unique.

Lucas I can't really explain though.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Unless Ganondorf gets heavily altered (let's not get into that part) I simply cannot see Goroh being added as a clone of Capt. Falcon.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That's not even close to the same differences between Falcon and Goroh. Pichu and Pikachu are the same types of Pokemon and can perform the same attacks.

Falcon and Goroh are the same types of racers and can perform the same attacks.

They wouldn't need to be the same size to do the same attacks anyway.

Neither would Goroh

It actually makes sense for Pichu to be a clone of Pikachu considering they're a part of the same evolutionary line.

It makes sense for Goroh to be a clone because they're part of the same role. F-Zero racers with no established abilities. Plusle & Minun I can bet you would be clones too regardless of evolutionary line not being related to Pikachu.

They're exist clones who are not the same people.

We're talking human sizes. Not these Pokemon who play by different rules.

You mean the same rules as Toon Link. Who was also shorter and wider and also a human. But, no I guess that doesn't count because they were coincidentally the same person.

I don't think it's fair to use Ganondorf or Toon Link in this argument, because Ganondorf was added as a last minute filler clone, and Toon Link was and still is meant to be a clone. That's arguably his schtick. Especially because of how Sakurai sees him.

Smash 4 is a game focusing on uniqueness with character inclusions, so if Goroh is added, I would like to think they would attempt to make him fairly unique.

Lucas I can't really explain though.

So if Toon Link is meant to be a clone what exactly suggests that it stops there? You don't think Lucas and Luigi are meant to be clones? Then why not Goroh? Captain Falcon's rival who does everything Falcon does in the game and he shares similarities.

And I'd like to reiterate you can't come up with these kinds of excuses for characters with different body structure making sense just because they are the same characters. You don't have to be the same character to have different body structure just because two characters who were "technically" the same person, just so happened to have different body structure.

Smash 4 is a game focusing on uniqueness of characters? So was Brawl. What's your point?

And I'll explain Lucas for you. Two characters who shared the same role, did the same things, had the same basic abilities, and were similar to each other.

I simply cannot see Goroh being added as a clone of Capt. Falcon.

That's because you can't accept anyone who has a unique ability being a semi-clone. Even when they fit all the criteria of a semi-clone.

It's at the point now where newcomers have to bring something new or just simply being unique with help from their source material, adding in a clone character isn't going to help.

Do we still think Sakurai cares how we react to clones? They make sense to him and allows time for more characters.

At this point I don't even think I care what we think. Nobody will except a character as a clone whenever they have anything unique, despite that character's with uniquenesses have become clones anyway.

 

[BKupa666]

Little Mac would be a Falcon clone. Literally everything he does, Falcon does. He's also identical to his veteran counterpart in stature, unlike Rosalina or Dixie.

That doesn't make sense? Ganondorf!

Ganondorf! Ganondorf! Ganondorf, Ganondorf, Ganondorf!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Little Mac would be a Falcon clone. Literally everything he does, Falcon does.

Right, because Little Mac kicks and grabs people and having muscles makes you a similar character to Captain Falcon.

 

[Baskerville]

Do we still think Sakurai cares how we react to clones? They make sense to him and allows time for more characters.

Yeah, it made sense in the past, but now? There isn't any room for newcomers that would only mimic what another character does especially when said character, or any other potential choice have a lot going for them.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

That's because you can't accept anyone who has a unique ability being a semi-clone. Even when they fit all the criteria of a semi-clone.

I can accept Toon Link being a semi-clone just fine even though he has the potential to be unique. I've stated this multiple times in the past.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Yeah, it made sense in the past, but now?

Uh, yeah.

There isn't any room for newcomers that would only mimic what another character does especially when said character, or any other potential choice have a lot going for them.

In your world. The world where you're the director for Smash and you get to say what the priority is. Look at how much Lucas and Toon Link and Ganondorf had going for them.

Can't add Dixie Kong, guys. There's no room for similar characters all of the sudden. Sakurai stopped adding semi-clones according to no basis whatsoever aside from the prejudice of Smash fans.