Character Discussion Thread

[FlareHabanero]

Little Mac would be a Falcon clone. Literally everything he does, Falcon does. He's also identical to his veteran counterpart in stature, unlike Rosalina or Dixie.

That doesn't make sense? Ganondorf!

Ganondorf! Ganondorf! Ganondorf, Ganondorf, Ganondorf!

Ridley is my favorite R.O.B. clone.

Thank you based Ganondorf.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Right, because Little Mac kicks and grabs people and having muscles makes you a similar character to Captain Falcon.

Right, because Goroh kicks and grabs people and having muscles makes you a similar character to Captain Falcon.


Am I doing this right?

 

[False Sense]

At this point I don't even think I care what we think. Nobody will except a character as a clone whenever they have anything unique, despite that character's with uniquenesses have become clones anyway.

I think you mean accept. But anyway, I'm still looking for a legitimate answer to my earlier question.

Can someone remind me why we're arguing over Goroh being a clone?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

@ BKupa666 : Dude, why do you keep saying that I don't think Dixie would be a semi-clone? Are you just lying about what I think so you can pretend my views are invalid. And remember when Rosalina plucked vegetables, had a parasol, and played Golf? I don't.

I think you mean accept. But anyway, I'm still looking for a legitimate answer to my earlier question.

I honestly don't know when it's so obvious. But, it's apparent that this is pointless. Good Night.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Falcon and Goroh are the same types of racers and can perform the same attacks.


Neither would Goroh

They can perform the same attacks? Based on what? Goroh hasn't fought or done much of anything outside of F-Zero. Not to mention he's much more of an aggressive racer than Falcon is.

It makes sense for Goroh to be a clone because they're part of the same role. F-Zero racers with no established abilities. Plusle & Minun I can bet you would be clones too regardless of evolutionary line not being related to Pikachu.

They're exist clones who are not the same people.

So what you're saying is, that any two characters with the same role and similar abilities should be clones? Then why is Ike not a clone of Marth? Both use a sword. Ike has fire? Shouldn't he have been a Roy clone? Both are sword wielding protagonists. Ike wasn't even slow in Path of Radiance, so he COULD have been a clone.

You mean the same rules as Toon Link. Who was also shorter and wider and also a human. But, no I guess that doesn't count because they were coincidentally the same person.

No. Sakurai has explicitly stated that Toon Link and Link would have the same moveset because they're the same person.

So if Toon Link is meant to be a clone what exactly suggests that it stops there? You don't think Lucas and Luigi are meant to be clones? Then why not Goroh? Captain Falcon's rival who does everything Falcon does in the game and he shares similarities.

Again, just because he does the same thing doesn't mean he's destined to be a clone. See the Marth, Ike, and Roy example. Not to mention, do you really want another Star Fox situation where we end up with 3 characters playing with almost the same movesets?

Smash 4 is a game focusing on uniqueness of characters? So was Brawl. What's your point?

There are far fewer characters getting added this time, and I really doubt Sakurai wants to add a character who would be a 2nd clone to a character. Just because he did it with Star Fox doesn't mean he should/would do it again.

And I'll explain Lucas for you. Two characters who shared the same role, did the same things, had the same basic abilities, and were similar to each other.

Lucas isn't even that bad in terms of being a clone, and for another time, the sword lord example.

Do we still think Sakurai cares how we react to clones? They make sense to him and allows time for more characters.

At this point I don't even think I care what we think. Nobody will except a character as a clone whenever they have anything unique, despite that character's with uniqueness's have become clones anyway.

That's because a majority of fans don't want to have a roster with a bunch of characters who are copy and paste from others. A lot of people want their characters unique, because when you have too many clones, it seems forced.

Hell, I don't even want Samurai Goroh in general. I think he's a terrible choice.

 

[BKupa666]

@ BKupa666 : Dude, why do you keep saying that I don't think Dixie would be a semi-clone? Are you just lying so you can pretend my views are invalid. And remember when Rosalina plucked vegetables, had a parasol, and played Golf? I don't.

Funny, I seem to recall you talking about how Dixie could never be a Diddy semi-clone because of Diddy's single tail move, and how on earth would Dixie copy that, or whatever. Also, clone potential includes semi-clone potential; Rosalina wouldn't have to share each and every one of Peach's attacks to earn that moniker.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I think you mean accept. But anyway, I'm still looking for a legitimate answer to my earlier question.

Because certain characters will/won't be clones because Saturn said so. In fact, Saturn is the one making the game, everything is his decision.

Also, I'm Kojima and I can confirm that Snake is returning to Smash. I also managed to blackmail talk Sakurai Saturn into adding Simon Belmont as well.

Sarcasm aside, this is literally his arguments, Goroh will be a clone because of his own conflicting standards. None of us are going to get anywhere with this.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Samurai Goroh potentially being a semi-clone is the topic? His body-structure and sword are all that's really needed to throw that out the window. Final Smash might be the same though, got me there.

 

[Baskerville]

Uh, yeah.
In your world. The world where you're the director for Smash and you get to say what the priority is. Look at how much Lucas and Toon Link and Ganondorf had going for them.

Can't add Dixie Kong, guys. There's no room for similar characters all of the sudden. Sakurai stopped adding semi-clones according to no basis whatsoever aside from the prejudice of Smash fans.

According to the person saying it makes no sense for Krystal to use her staff as a moveset. Plus, Dixie has enough going for her to stem herself away from Diddy with her hair, if you've ever seen Milia Rage from Guilty Gear there is a lot you can do with that alone.

 

[TumblrFamous]

...I don't really wish to contribute to this conversation as I see this will certainly lead to my inevitable demise. I shall watch from a distance.

...I like uniqueness and everyone has potential, some more than others. So....yeah. My input.

 

[Deleted member]

First off, that statement about being unable to include every character has to do with any time scnafu that prevents a character from being implemented, it has nothing to do with intentionally scrapping characters because the producers hate us and want us to suffer. Which means that a character like Snake wouldn't be scrapped because one day Sakurai told the developers to completely ignore Snake, but because Snake failed to make it due to priorities pushing him out of the way. Hence why I think your theory is flawed, because again it's suggesting that there would be an intentional cut when it's been clearly stated that there won't be any planned cuts, and your back up statement is something entirely different.

I'm going to be honest and admit that after reading this paragraph alone, I felt like just quoting Kuma's post and conceding that this discussion is a lost cause.

I mean "intentionally scrapping characters because the producers hate us and want us to suffer"? "Snake wouldn't be scrapped because one day Sakurai told the developers to completely ignore Snake"? Really?
Not only is this a poor exaggeration, but even less vindictive versions would not be what applies here.
Snake's return isn't solely up to Sakurai. It also rests on Kojima. It wouldn't make any sort of difference if Sakurai was desperate to include Snake again if Kojima is unwilling to have the rights renewed. Hence the point about the hypothetical possibility that Snake is a one-time deal; we don't know if Sakurai and Kojima agreed to make Snake a permanent guest for Smash. While it's reasonable to assume that Kojima would be all for Snake's return, the fact that we literally don't know how he feels about it means we shouldn't just blindly count him as good as confirmed and instead consider all possibilities.

I'm pro-Snake, and never had a problem with his inclusion, and am pro-keeping Brawl's roster, but I'm not going to count my chickens before they hatch.

Second, and I know this is going to sound weird to you, but veterans are easier to develop for, and as such would naturally be kept due to the ease of access. Generally a veteran is easier to make because the character already has established movesets and playstyles that can easily be implemented into the game, with at worst a few modifications to attacks in order to make a character more diverse or viable. Meanwhile, a newcomer would be more difficult because your basically making everything from scratch, and it's no guarantee if it will come into fruition. Hence why I think all veterans will be at least planned first before newcomers, because how easy it is to include them.

Which is why Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario were added before Toon Link and Wolf when it came down to the count....wait a minute.....

 

[False Sense]

I honestly don't know when it's so obvious. But, it's apparent that this is pointless. Good Night.

...Ok then. I guess I'm still a little lost as to why this rather heated debate is taking place.

Guess I'll just end this by saying that no character HAS to be a clone, pretty much any character can be unique, and that I think Samurai Goroh will more than likely be an Assist Trophy.

 

[---]

Arguing Goroh being a clone? Technically he could, but that's like saying Ridley would be a clone of Charizard IMO.

Personally I've always seen him as a character who could mix punching/kicking with a reckless style of swordplay. There's also the fact that he drives the Fire Stingray, so like Falcon, some fire or electricity could be thrown in there to make things flashy. Like Falcon, the materials for making a moveset are there, you just have to get creative (which is one of the reasons I support him, besides being a fun character) IMO.

anyonerememberChronoboundsayinghe'dbeacloneofTakamaru?

 

[AEMehr]

Snake's not scary, just out of place.

nobody cares it's a spinoff game

 

[Deleted member]

So how is it then that Goroh has a katana but could be a Falcon clone?

Because, he can just use deviations of Falcon's techniques using the sword to serve as a semi-clone?

We haven't had full clones since Melee aside from Toon Link.

 

[Big-Cat]

Because, he can just use deviations of Falcon's techniques using the sword to serve as a semi-clone?

We haven't had full clones since Melee aside from Toon Link.

He could, but he doesn't HAVE to. Though I think there are much better choices than Goroh. You could probably split the concepts he could potential bring into Takamaru and K.Rool.

 

[---]

He could, but he doesn't HAVE to. Though I think there are much better choices than Goroh. You could probably split the concepts he could potential bring into Takamaru and K.Rool.

I disagree, but arguing movesets is highly opinated. What's this about K.Rool though? I haven't heard someone make that comparison yet.

 

[Deleted member]

He could, but he doesn't HAVE to. Though I think there are much better choices than Goroh. You could probably split the concepts he could potential bring into Takamaru and K.Rool.

It is true that he doesn't have to. It's also true that K. Rool and Takamaru would be better choices.

However, if he was to show up, given how Fox and C. Falcon were inspired by actions performed in their vehicles (still trying to find the source to this, but I do remember this being said), and how Falco and Wolf were deviations from Fox (though Falco can be attributed to being a Melee clone as well), he'd very likely be deviated from C. Falcon. Though more like Wolf is to Fox than Falco is to Fox, if that makes sense.

 

[Pacack]

On the topic of Snake, I definitely expect him to return, but I would also understand him being cut due to licensing issues.

I also expect to get Pac-Man, for the record. I don't think four third parties is a stretch at all.

 

[AEMehr]

Goroh could have Falcon-esque Special moves.
I mean it only makes sense if he does as he would most likely be imitating his Fire Stingray in his moveset, right?

His sword would come in to play for his Normal attacks, but his specials could very well be derived from his vehicle as Falcon's are, and I have no problem with that.
Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow would be fantastic, I'd love to see F-Zero get some more love. Maybe then, a development team would be interested in making a new game for Nintendo??

 

[TumblrFamous]

Oh, it died down. That's good. On the subject of Snake, I say he will probably return unless Kojima didn't want him in.... which would be pretty stupid of him.

 

[Croph]

Question: does Raiden have any chance of apperaing? Is he ineligible for a playable character? He did appear as a sticker... so any chance as an AT perhaps?

 

[Deleted member]

Not only has Raiden not had an actual appearance on a Nintendo system (highly doubt a single piece of concept art used as a Sticker counts), making him ineligible by Sakurai's rule about guest characters, but Kojima apparently has issue with Snake and Raiden being pit against each other (which was part of the reason Snake was not in PSABR) from what I've heard, so yeah.

He's royally ****ed when it comes to Smash.

 

[Staarih]

On the topic of Snake, I definitely expect him to return, but I would also understand him being cut due to licensing issues.

I don't know if I expect him or not, but I would definitely like to see Snake return, if only for the fact to see how he would fit in this time when all the colors and characters generally are more bright, vibrant and expressive haha!

 

[IsmaR]

I'd imagine Raiden being an upgraded/glorified Gray Fox as an Assist Trophy.

 

[Baskerville]

I'd imagine Raiden being an upgraded/glorified Gray Fox as an Assist Trophy.

Zandatsu all day.

 

[ppbto]

On Snake's topic I see him returning. In fact I expect no cuts from Brawl.

I don't see why Goroh would be a clone, not that I expect him to be playable character anyways.

 

[Shorts]

nobody cares it's a spinoff game

Still out of place.

 

[Croph]

Not only has Raiden not had an actual appearance on a Nintendo system (highly doubt a single piece of concept art used as a Sticker counts), making him ineligible by Sakurai's rule about guest characters, but Kojima apparently has issue with Snake and Raiden being pit against each other (which was part of the reason Snake was not in PSABR) from what I've heard, so yeah.

He's royally ****ed when it comes to Smash.

Ah... that's kinda discouraging to hear about the Snake vs. Raiden issue. So even if Raiden hypothetically appeared on a Nintendo console, Kojima would really be against him appearing in Smash because of the issues, assuming Snake returns (not that I'm saying a 3rd party getting a second character is likely, I'm just curious)?

Do you happen to have a link to where you heard this? It sounds like something interesting nonetheless.

 

[IsmaR]

Zandatsu all day.

On hard mode. Never again.

I'd prefer Jetstream Sam anyway.

Still out of place.

You in NZ is out of place.

 

[Deleted member]

Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find a source to this, though it's been repeatedly said by people of PSABR communities while searching through Google.

Since I don't give two ****s about PSABR, I have no idea if it's true or not.

 

[Baskerville]

On hard mode. Never again.

I'd prefer Jetstream Sam anyway.

Hey, with dem pearly whites of his, I can't deny.
-gif removed-

 

[AEMehr]

Still out of place.

This is subject to your own personal opinion. If the Metal Gear Solid franchise actually took itself seriously, I'd probably agree with you. But it never really has, so I think he fits in pretty nicely.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Samurai Goroh talk.

I feel that the difference between making Ganondorf a Captain Falcon clone and making Samurai Goroh a Captain Falcon clone is that Ganondorf was shown to be capable of fist fighting in Ocarina of Time. With Goroh all we know is that he can fight with a sword, he's never been shown capable of fist fighting. Of course, a character not being able to fight in the games they come from doesn't matter in Smash Bros., but if a character is known to fight in a specific way in their games (using a katana) why make them fight in a way they're never shown to? It's been shown that Ganondorf is capable of fighting without his sword, so having him not use his sword works, but it's never been shown if Goroh is capable of fighting without his sword. That's what bugs me about Goroh being a Falcon clone. Another thing I want to point out is in the SNES F-Zero manual comic it was shown that Captain Falcon was capable of fist fighting,

so that explains his moveset, with Goroh they just show him wielding a katana.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I had the weirdest dream last night where I saw posters confirming E.gadd, a male/female chibi soccer player and a male/female chibi track runner as playable characters. There might have been another (sports related I think) but I can't remember.

The very same dream involved me trying to contact world leaders by floundering around a room tossing papers around.....

Maybe it was divine inspiration and Professor E.gadd will be playable, or maybe I'm just crazy.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I had the weirdest dream last night where I saw posters confirming E.gadd, a male/female chibi soccer player and a male/female chibi track runner as playable characters. There might have been another (sports related I think) but I can't remember.

The very same dream involved me trying to contact world leaders by floundering around a room tossing papers around.....

Maybe it was divine inspiration and Professor E.gadd will be playable, or maybe I'm just crazy.

I've had several dreams of character confirmations, ranging from Ridley to General Pepper to Squidward.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So someone said something about Ganondorf being based off Akuma in order to differentiate him from Falcon. That's a pretty interesting idea.

 

[IsmaR]

It would be... if Falcon was Ryu, at least.

I realize it's probably misplaced hope, but I'm hoping today's PotD means we'll see OoT Ganondorf, or at least an updated/original design this time around.

 

[TheTuninator]

Given that Link and Zelda both resemble their TP versions the most, I would not get your hopes up for anything but TP Ganondorf.

 

[Chandeelure]

Snake: "Creepy".

And on topic, I think this Goroh discussion makes no sense.