Character Discussion Thread

[StormC]

We don't need 2 fox clones... Falco is enough.

Haven't people already discussed with you that Wolf isn't a clone?

 

[Arcadenik]

Looks like Team Rocket is blasting off again!!!

Meowth and/or Team Rocket getting in Smash would be a dream come true.

Meowth as a standalone fighter.


Team Rocket if they were designed to be a custom fighter like Mii Fighters... you choose what will be Meowth's teammate and they will always be together like Duck Hunt Dog & Duck.




Team Rocket if they are not a custom fighter and they are always together like Duck Hunt Dog & Duck.

 

[Talpr1]

You were shot down because Wolf is not even a semiclone. They share only like BAir, Fire and Shine.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We don't need 2 fox clones... Falco is enough.

The way I see it, Teh Ph1re didn't need to come back and the 3 Marths are less unique than 2.5 Foxes. Did we need Nintendo characters in Dragon Fighter anyway?

 

[PK_Knee]

Haven't people already discussed with you that Wolf isn't a clone?

I know I said that earlier, I don't think that now.

 

[Arcadenik]

We don't need 2 fox clones... Falco is enough.

We have 2 Marth clones.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

We don't need 2 fox clones... Falco is enough.

Wolf isn't a clone...

but let's not get into that, here's a page if you wanna know how Wolf isn't a clone. http://www.ssbwiki.com/User:Toomai/Cloneosity

Meowth and/or Team Rocket getting in Smash would be a dream come true.

Meowth as a standalone fighter.


Team Rocket if they were designed to be a custom fighter like Mii Fighters... you choose what will be Meowth's teammate and they will always be together like Duck Hunt Dog & Duck.




Team Rocket if they are not a custom fighter and they are always together like Duck Hunt Dog & Duck.

I just want Meowth as standalone. But he would talk like the anime Meowth (he can still use Payday remember Smash ain't canon). A reference to Arbok, Weezing, and Wobbuffet in his Final Smash would be cool though.

We have 2 Marth clones.

Roy is now a Semi clone.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

You were shot down because Wolf is not even a semiclone. They share only like BAir, Fire and Shine.

You already posted that mate.

 

[MainJPW]

I know I said that earlier, I don't think that now.

Oh, well good.

You were shot down because Wolf is not even a semiclone. They share only like BAir, Fire and Shine.

And you already posted this..

 

[PK_Knee]

You already posted that mate.

Roy is better than Marth. Hopefully, Roy will be higher on the tiers.

 

[Arcadenik]

Wolf isn't a clone...

but let's not get into that, here's a page if you wanna know how Wolf isn't a clone. http://www.ssbwiki.com/User:Toomai/Cloneosity

I just want Meowth as standalone. But he would talk like the anime Meowth (he can still use Payday remember Smash ain't canon). A reference to Arbok, Weezing, and Wobbuffet in his Final Smash would be cool though.

Oh yes!!!

You know, I was thinking of a niche that Meowth could fill... he could be that character who steals items from other characters... example, Mario has the Beam Sword and Meowth uses Thief/Covet to steal that item from Mario. Oh, and if Villager pocketed Samus's Charge Shot and Meowth uses Thief/Covet to steal the Charge Shot from Villager's pocket.

Meowth could also steal status effects from other characters... example, Mario has the Superspicy Curry and Meowth uses Snatch to steal that item from Mario and Mario is no longer burning. Oh, and if Shulk uses his Monado Arts like Speed, Meowth uses Snatch to steal Shulk's speed and Shulk goes back to normal.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Oh yes!!!

You know, I was thinking of a niche that Meowth could fill... he could be that character who steals items from other characters... example, Mario has the Beam Sword and Meowth uses Thief/Covet to steal that item from Mario. Oh, and if Villager pocketed Samus's Charge Shot and Meowth uses Thief/Covet to steal the Charge Shot from Villager's pocket.

Meowth could also steal status effects from other characters... example, Mario has the Superspicy Curry and Meowth uses Snatch to steal that item from Mario and Mario is no longer burning. Oh, and if Shulk uses his Monado Arts like Speed, Meowth uses Snatch to steal Shulk's speed and Shulk goes back to normal.

The stealing status affects seems kind of OP especially against someone like Shulk. We could discuss this in the Meowth thread if you want.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Back to the 'characters need gimmicks' argument. are the newcomers. Bowser Jr's gimmick is the Koopa Clown Car. It makes damage work differently, remove that, unique fighter without gimmick. DHD's gimmick is being campy, which is a reference to the Zapper. Greninja has no gimmick. Little Mac's gimmick is being great on the ground but **** in the air. Actually reflects boxing. Mega Man has no gimmick, but was given a moveset which you can tell it's a tribute to the games. Mii's gimmicks are customizable. Palutena has different moves as customs, not really a gimmick. Pac-Man has no gimmick. Robin's gimmick is weapon durability, the spells are fitting for Robin's class and work as attacks. Rosalina's gimmick is Luma. Ryu's gimmick is command inputs and different attacks based on button presses. Shulk's gimmick is the Monado Arts, something hedoesn't really need. Villager has no gimmick. WFT slighty heals during some attacks as a gimmick.

 

[Alph Aran]

I absolutely love it when someone randomly comes to this thread with an unconventional opinion that starts debates. It really makes this thread ten times more enjoyable to read through. At least for me.

At the GameFAQs board that kind of thing is too normal for my liking. It took one guy to make DK and Metroid vs Fire Emblem representation debates skyrocket there for weeks.

If Goku wins, people will whine how it was only done to please the Goku fans and rant on Tvtropes Wallbangers. If Superman wins, Goku fans will whine about a rematch being unnecessary

Also interesting how some people thought things would be different in that remastered version of Boba Fett vs Samus Aran battle.

We have 2 Marth clones.

This is why I'm predicting that we get a 6th Fire Emblem character to fix the quality of Fire Emblem representation. A UNIQUE one at that. (Consider throwing in a vote for Corrin or for some FE other character, guys!)

 

[LancerStaff]

Tell me, how would a Mac moveset work if you exclusively had real boxing stuff? Boxers don't soar through the sky, no aerials or recovery. THAT'S would makes it tough

Exactly. At first glance Mac would be a painfully plain character. Like every fanmade moveset was...

Remember when Sakurai said Villager wasn't in Brawl because he wasn't a fighting character. You know what happened, we got Villager in the new Smash and also Wii Fit Trainer, both of them don't fight. Sakurai contradicts himself and goes back on his word a lot. Sakurai said that characters/series with seemingly no future would be lower priority. K. Rool still has a future because the Donkey Kong Country Returns games are a thing. Yes, he hasn't appeared in Returns or Tropical Freeze but Retro is not opposed to using the character, they made the new villains because they wanted to separate themselves from the Rare games. Since King K. Rool's popularity has boomed, K. Rool is probably the most likely character to get in Smash (barring Wolf since he's a veteran).

Sakurai said Villager wouldn't fit in Brawl. Which is probably why Jigglypuff was one of the last characters put in. Between the artstyle and SSE Villager would stick out like a sore thumb when there were plenty of other characters to add.

You realize a Sonic character or a Pokemon is going to win the ballot, right? Even if K. Rool wins, Sakurai doesn't have to add him if he sees a better character.

I had to spend 12 years selling the idea of Duck Hunt Dog as a playable character to people on Nsider, NinDB, and SmashBoards... turns out Sakurai only had to force feed the idea to the detractors for them to finally "get" what I was talking about.

To be honest, I always thought Duck Hunt was the most believable character of the ESRB leak. Out of all the retros, he's the most popular.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't know where this design philosophy of yours stems from, but for me, I really depends on the final result. Does a character's moveset work tier-wise, it is faithful to the character and importantly, is it fun to play? That's all that really matters to me.

I don't know why there has to be a succinct phrase to describe a character's moveset, honestly. In designing a character, you look at what abilities they provide and then look for a niche to fill, and design the actual moveset around that. Many characters simply add a niche for themselves.

The reason you don't find that coherence in fan movesets, because, let's face it, most of us are not professionals at this, and not everyone is a competitive player. That's why most fan movesets can come across as hodge-podge of ideas instead of being based around a single concept. This is a not a problem for Sakurai, and limitations in fanbase's imagination never was and should never be a barrier for Sakurai, (heck, it is part of the reason he's revered) and shouldn't affect chances.

Mostly it's based off of what Sakurai has said. Uniqueness, relevancy within a series, wether or not the series was popular now or or a long time ago, and if they'd make a convincing clone or not.

Because in order to appeal to non-fans, the character has to stand-out in Smash.

But I do. Most of the SSB4 newcomers had their movesets described pretty well before Sakurai showed us.

King K. Rool: Heavyweight Trapper
Ridley: Air Grappler
Mac: Sucks in the air, dominates on the ground
Chorus Kids: Better with rhythm
Pidgey (most Pokémon): Lotsa loopings
Impa: Timer the character

I dunno, but that sound like catchphrase-playstyles to me.

Snake, and Snake was OP.
Dorf and DDD have it covered.
Already in the game.
Because telegraphing your attacks is ever a good idea in a fighting game.
I don't understand what you're saying on the last one.

Haven't people already discussed with you that Wolf isn't a clone?

Semi-clones don't exist. Clones by definition not 100% the same. Wolf is a clone.

Back to the 'characters need gimmicks' argument. are the newcomers. Bowser Jr's gimmick is the Koopa Clown Car. It makes damage work differently, remove that, unique fighter without gimmick. DHD's gimmick is being campy, which is a reference to the Zapper. Greninja has no gimmick. Little Mac's gimmick is being great on the ground but **** in the air. Actually reflects boxing. Mega Man has no gimmick, but was given a moveset which you can tell it's a tribute to the games. Mii's gimmicks are customizable. Palutena has different moves as customs, not really a gimmick. Pac-Man has no gimmick. Robin's gimmick is weapon durability, the spells are fitting for Robin's class and work as attacks. Rosalina's gimmick is Luma. Ryu's gimmick is command inputs and different attacks based on button presses. Shulk's gimmick is the Monado Arts, something hedoesn't really need. Villager has no gimmick. WFT slighty heals during some attacks as a gimmick.

Megaman's gimmick is being almost entirely projectiles. Greninja was forced into the game. Yes, having unique customs is a gimmick, and Palutena had a unique playstyle before Mewtwo came along. Pac's is being a heavyweight without the KO power. Shulk wouldn't be in Smash without Monado Arts. Villager has the pocket for items.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

K. Rool, Ridley, Shantae, Chorus Kids, Simon Belmont, Takamaru, Impa, most Pokemon... Basically everybody.

Well, and Rayman and Bomberman. It's one of those "I don't hate you, I hate everybody" kinda things, so don't take it personally.

Sorry, but any character who's an Assist Trophy or other NPC (Ridley) had lost so much support since the game's release. The only exception is Waluigi since he's from the Mario franchise (which is Nintendo's biggest IP in history) and his fans are the only dedicated ones left. Just wanted to correct you on that mistake there.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Megaman's gimmick is being almost entirely projectiles. Greninja was forced into the game. Yes, having unique customs is a gimmick, and Palutena had a unique playstyle before Mewtwo came along. Pac's is being a heavyweight without the KO power. Shulk wouldn't be in Smash without Monado Arts. Villager has the pocket for items.

I'm ignoring everything in your **** post but this.
That's a moveset, next you'll tell me Mario's bouncing fireballs are a gimmick. It's a moveset
'forced into the game' is a gimmick? Citation needed
Miis AND Palutena have unique customs, and you just implied Palutena and Mewtwo are clones
That's not a gimmick, not to mention I don't remember Pac-Man being heavy
Citation needed
Marth's gimmick is Counter amiright?

 

[FalKoopa]

You realize a Sonic character or a Pokemon is going to win the ballot, right? Even if K. Rool wins, Sakurai doesn't have to add him if he sees a better character.

You seem awfully certain about that.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Do you not want new iconic Nintendo characters in Smash? Seriously, this is ridiculous.

 

[PK_Knee]

You seem awfully certain about that.

People love their opinions.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Snake, and Snake was OP.
Dorf and DDD have it covered.
Already in the game.
Because telegraphing your attacks is ever a good idea in a fighting game.
I don't understand what you're saying on the last one.

Semi-clones don't exist. Clones by definition not 100% the same. Wolf is a clone.

Snake was powerful, yes. Because of the traps? A bit, but also because of his theoretically infinite recovery and tilts with unreasonably big hitboxes.

No, they don't. They have one move that acts as a grapple. This is like saying every projectile-heavy user is redundant because Mario has Fireballs already,

Ok.

Good point.

Timer is an item that slows down time. Impa could have a similar effect on some of her attacks, like some moves have a slight vacuum.

 

[StormC]

Semi-clones don't exist. Clones by definition not 100% the same. Wolf is a clone.

You've invalidated literally everything you've posted in this thread with this one line. Well done.

 

[MainJPW]

You realize a Sonic character or a Pokemon is going to win the ballot, right? Even if K. Rool wins, Sakurai doesn't have to add him if he sees a better character.

What on earth...

Are you telling us this will happen? Sakurai would have to be tone deaf for this to come to fruition.

 

[FalKoopa]

People love their opinions.

That's not an opinion. It's a prediction, and one which runs counter to all the fan polls we've seen, at that.

 

[Alph Aran]

Do you not want new iconic Nintendo characters in Smash? Seriously, this is ridiculous.

The idea is to go for a character you like to get into this game. Iconic characters stand the best chances in the ballot, but they won't necessarily be favorites.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's not an opinion. It's a prediction, and one which runs counter to all the fan polls we've seen, at that.

Nope. It's a statement as LancerStaff is saying this is outright what will happen

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

The idea is to go for a character you like to get into this game. Iconic characters stand the best chances in the ballot, but they won't necessarily be favorites.

I just find it hard to understand that not one of the iconic popular characters in the ballot is someone he likes.

 

[PK_Knee]

Nope. It's a statement as LancerStaff is saying this is outright what will happen

Well that makes sense.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

What on earth...

Are you telling us this will happen? Sakurai would have to be tone deaf for this to come to fruition.

Nipples the Enchilada confirmed.

 

[PK_Knee]

Nipples the Enchilada confirmed.

No, Tanic the hedgehog confirmed. ​

 

[MainJPW]

No, Tanic the hedgehog confirmed. ​

Nipples is a parody of an existing character, that is a sloppy recolor.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm ignoring everything in your **** post but this.
That's a moveset, next you'll tell me Mario's bouncing fireballs are a gimmick. It's a moveset
'forced into the game' is a gimmick? Citation needed
Miis AND Palutena have unique customs, and you just implied Palutena and Mewtwo are clones
That's not a gimmick, not to mention I don't remember Pac-Man being heavy
Citation needed
Marth's gimmick is Counter amiright?

Sakurai said he had to pick a gen 6 Pokemon for Smash, remember? Obviously the standard rules don't apply.
If it really bothers you that much, switch out every instance of "gimmick" for "unique moveset" and quit whinning.
Miis are completely customizable characters, Palutena only has her moves. And her moveset was unique before Mewtwo.
There's a difference between just having similar playstyle and being a clone.
Sorry, was thinking more about Wario. Pac is about gimmicky traps.

Snake was powerful, yes. Because of the traps? A bit, but also because of his theoretically infinite recovery and tilts with unreasonably big hitboxes.

No, they don't. They have one move that acts as a grapple. This is like saying every projectile-heavy user is redundant because Mario has Fireballs already,

Ok.

Good point.

Timer is an item that slows down time. Impa could have a similar effect on some of her attacks, like some moves have a slight vacuum.

Try balancing an aerial grab and see what it boils down to.

Impa... I still don't really get it. I don't think a character who can use a timer as a standard move would work.

You've invalidated literally everything you've posted in this thread with this one line. Well done.

Because people don't laugh at the Smash fanbase for it's boneheaded definitions? Name one other fanbase that actually uses "semi clone."

That's not an opinion. It's a prediction, and one which runs counter to all the fan polls we've seen, at that.

Because fan polls are always completely accurate... Put the poll on a Paper Mario site, you'll get Paper Mario characters. Put the poll on a "hardcore" site like this, you'll get characters like Ridley or K. Rool. Put the poll on the whole web and you'll get completely different results. Smashboards is nowhere close to being indicative of the poll's results.

And of course with K. Rool, Sakurai has had the chance to add him for years but continually ignores him. Presumably because of moveset and more recently his lack of in series appearances. People said K. Rool and Ridley were going to be playable before release... And yet, they were wrong. What makes this time any different?

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

And of course with K. Rool, Sakurai has had the chance to add him for years but continually ignores him. Presumably because of moveset and more recently his lack of in series appearances. People said K. Rool and Ridley were going to be playable before release... And yet, they were wrong. What makes this time any different?

In Ridley's case, nothing, because he's a stage boss, which basically kills his chances.

In K. Rool's case, the ballot is about popularity and he is one of the most popular newcomer candidates, if not the most popular.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sakurai said he had to pick a gen 6 Pokemon for Smash, remember? Obviously the standard rules don't apply.
If it really bothers you that much, switch out every instance of "gimmick" for "unique moveset" and quit whinning.
Miis are completely customizable characters, Palutena only has her moves. And her moveset was unique before Mewtwo.
There's a difference between just having similar playstyle and being a clone.
Sorry, was thinking more about Wario. Pac is about gimmicky traps.

Sakurai said he WANTED an XY pokemon! He also said he CHOSE Greninja, as GF only suggests pokemon.
MARIO'S GIMMICK IS PUNCHING PEOPLE BECAUSE REASONS
I only argued about Palutena, and Mewtwo totally wasn't in Melee. They don't share moves OR playstyles. At all. Case and point, everyone who plays a good Mewtwo would be good with Palutena
Yes because 2 moves equals gimmick. Do some research kid

 

[MainJPW]

And of course with K. Rool, Sakurai has had the chance to add him for years but continually ignores him. Presumably because of moveset and more recently his lack of in series appearances. People said K. Rool and Ridley were going to be playable before release... And yet, they were wrong. What makes this time any different?

Because this time a fighter ballot is involved..

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think we should ignore the hypocrite who says "THIS CHARACTER WOULD BE BLAND BECAUSE I SAID SO!" and then says "Wario being small and heavy is his gimmick"
Because weight is only a gimmick for playable characters amiright?

 

[FalKoopa]

Because fan polls are always completely accurate... Put the poll on a Paper Mario site, you'll get Paper Mario characters. Put the poll on a "hardcore" site like this, you'll get characters like Ridley or K. Rool. Put the poll on the whole web and you'll get completely different results. Smashboards is nowhere close to being indicative of the poll's results.

And of course with K. Rool, Sakurai has had the chance to add him for years but continually ignores him. Presumably because of moveset and more recently his lack of in series appearances. People said K. Rool and Ridley were going to be playable before release... And yet, they were wrong. What makes this time any different?

They may not be 100% accurate, but you can't simply dismiss them. The polls aren't just from SmashBoards, people have polled Reddit, Tumblr and (maybe) 4Chan as well, and taken together these do comprise almost all the online Smash Bros. fanbase, and the ones that actually cares about the ballot.

The ballot is the difference. It's the only time in Smash history where is roster isn't subjected to Sakurai's whims. Before the ballot, we were predicting and hoping that we were right. Now, however, we've been given an opportunity to actually choose who gets in.

In any case, I'm done arguing. Good day to you.

 

[StormC]

Because people don't laugh at the Smash fanbase for it's boneheaded definitions? Name one other fanbase that actually uses "semi clone."

But Wolf isn't a clone.

The only thing that's "cloned" is his Final Smash (and if that's your reasoning, then Zelda and Sheik are clones).

All of his other moves have unique animations and properties.

 

[Alph Aran]

I can only see myself buying King K. Rool as DLC if he does some little dances for taunts, victory animations, or something like in the Donkey Kong movie.

That's the only selling factor I'm willing to fall for when it comes to him. Would have to wait on his moveset just to make sure.

 

[Talpr1]

You realize a Sonic character or a Pokemon is going to win the ballot, right? Even if K. Rool wins, Sakurai doesn't have to add him if he sees a better character.

Support from Sonic fanbase is split between three or four characters: Tails, Knuckles, Eggman and maybe Shadow(he's an assist). Even if they outnumber King K. Rool all together, Sakurai needs a single name. And I've never seen a poll anywhere on the internet where a single Sonic character outnumbered K. Rool, or even Isaac and Bandana Dee. Don't even get me started on Pokemon, there are more than 600 characters without already a role in the game, and everybody is pushing for their personal favourite. How can you expect a single Pokemon winning the ballot?

And yes, he does have to add K. Rool if he takes first place(or even second and third if there are going to be multiple characters from ballot). Otherwise the whole concept of a characters ballot and even his own words from a few week ago "it's all going to be fanservice" are going to be complete bull****.