Character Discussion Thread

[StormC]

Of note, he labels Wario a Mario character despite Land existing at the time...did he change his mind once Ware started coming out or does he still think Wario (and by extension, Yoshi and DK) count as Mario representation?

I don't think so. They're definitely designated as different franchises categorically. He probably just considers the Wario Land games to be Mario spin-offs (and... not the Yoshi games, for whatever reason).

 

[Roaring Salsa]

If that's true it's possible Sakurai considers Wario Land as part of the Mario series while WarioWare isn't. That would explain why Wario is completely based on WarioWare.

On another note, since most people want some Wario Land representation in his moveset, what would you guys add (besides the Dash Attack)? I'm interested since I haven't played any Wario game... maybe make him a grappler by adding some Wario World moves?

 

[StormC]

On another note, since most people want some Wario Land representation in his moveset, what would you guys add (besides the Dash Attack)? I'm interested since I haven't played any Wario game... maybe make him a grappler by adding some Wario World moves?

I imagine he would be themed mostly around his transformations.

http://www.mariowiki.com/Wario_Land_II#Wario.27s_Conditions
http://www.mariowiki.com/Wario_Land_3#Wario.27s_Reactions
http://www.mariowiki.com/Wario_Land_4#Wario.27s_Reactions

He also has the Ground Pound as an easy D-Air move.

And this is obvious as his Up B:

Just off the top of my head.

 

[BKupa666]

I don't think so. They're definitely designated as different franchises categorically. He probably just considers the Wario Land games to be Mario spin-offs (and... not the Yoshi games, for whatever reason).

I hope so. You could also look at it in terms of, when we got two Mario newcomers in Melee, the "Mario spin offs" got none. The reverse happened in Brawl, and again in Smash 4.

 

[Kenith]

I don't think so. They're definitely designated as different franchises categorically. He probably just considers the Wario Land games to be Mario spin-offs (and... not the Yoshi games, for whatever reason).

Which is odd as both the Yoshi games and the Wario games' first entry is the sequel to a Mario platformer.
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3

Not the exact names but you get the idea.

 

[Bowserlick]

I cannot wait to see how correct I am in my predictions.

I think Bomberman will "log roll" on a big bomb for one of his specials.

 

[StormC]

Which is odd as both the Yoshi games and the Wario games' first entry is the sequel to a Mario platformer.
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3

Not the exact names but you get the idea.

Well, the Mario World subtitle is only in the west.

I cannot wait to see how correct I am in my predictions.

I think Bomberman will "log roll" on a big bomb for one of his specials.

Give it a rest.

 

[Chandeelure]

I hope so. You could also look at it in terms of, when we got two Mario newcomers in Melee, the "Mario spin offs" got none. The reverse happened in Brawl, and again in Smash 4.

What about Dr. Mario?

I cannot wait to see how correct I am in my predictions.

OK...

 

[Bowserlick]

Well, the Mario World subtitle is only in the west.



Give it a rest.

Say something constructive or lick Bowser's teat under his plastron.

Bomberman could be the puzzle character with puzziling moves many were waiting for and and hoping for (as in Lip for example).

 

[StormC]

Say something constructive or lick Bowser's teat under his plastron.

Why do you feel the need to continuously antagonize me in this thread just because I disagree with your DLC speculation? It's really obnoxious. Either take it to PM or drop it.

As for Bomberman, I'm not confident he will score highly enough on the ballot to get noticed by Sakurai.

 

[Bowserlick]

No, no. You want to be bombastic (Bomberman, get it idiot) with criticizing in an angry way, you take heat back. Or cower.

So far you have proven yourself a coward.

But at least you like K. Rool.

 

[Pakky]

I'm not going to post the "let's all calm down" thing, because it's bad and doesn't solve anything.

Anyway it would be nice to have Bomberman or Rayman in the game.

I'm also not opposed to Toon versions of the Zelda characters we have already in the game. I feel that the Toon versions do lend themselves to be different both in play style and in appearance from their main series counterparts.

 

[GaroMaster]

In my opinion, there is a good chance that we will be getting another third party as DLC.
Sure, we did get Ryu, but he was developed before the Smash Ballot was a thing and on top of that, the Ballot says you can vote for your favorite video game character.
Plus, back when people thought you could only vote for Nintendo characters, there was that spokesperson for Nintendo that cleared up the confusion by saying they will be considering third party characters.
I mean, why put down "video game characters" instead of "Nintendo characters" if there won't be any as DLC besides Ryu? It's a safe bet to think one more will be coming.
As for who it will be, I'm going to go out on a limb by saying that Snake won't be coming back.
I don't hate the character. If anything, I would be really sad if Snake got cut, as that would mean none of the awesome Metal Gear music would make the transition.
I guess it's the art style that is Snake's biggest obstacle to getting in. Even in Brawl, I still felt as though Snake was a little too out place, but that's what made him unique.
However, he might be a little too realistic and dark for Smash 4's bright style. Combine that with Nintendo's shaky at best relationship with Konami, and Snake ends up being the odd one out for Brawl veteran DLC.
I could be completely wrong in the end, but I still think we're only getting one more third party newcomer. Who could it be?
My gut's going with Rayman, but I would love it if they bundled them in a DLC third party package that also contains Shadow Moses Island and the Glade of Dreams.

 

[Pakky]

In my opinion, there is a good chance that we will be getting another third party as DLC.
Sure, we did get Ryu, but he was developed before the Smash Ballot was a thing and on top of that, the Ballot says you can vote for your favorite video game character.
Plus, back when people thought you could only vote for Nintendo characters, there was that spokesperson for Nintendo that cleared up the confusion by saying they will be considering third party characters.
I mean, why put down "video game characters" instead of "Nintendo characters" if there won't be any as DLC besides Ryu? It's a safe bet to think one more will be coming.
As for who it will be, I'm going to go out on a limb by saying that Snake won't be coming back.
I don't hate the character. If anything, I would be really sad if Snake got cut, as that would mean none of the awesome Metal Gear music would make the transition.
I guess it's the art style that is Snake's biggest obstacle to getting in. Even in Brawl, I still felt as though Snake was a little too out place, but that's what made him unique.
However, he might be a little too realistic and dark for Smash 4's bright style. Combine that with Nintendo's shaky at best relationship with Konami, and Snake ends up being the odd one out for Brawl veteran DLC.
I could be completely wrong in the end, but I still think we're only getting one more third party newcomer. Who could it be?
My gut's going with Rayman, but I would love it if they bundled them in a DLC third party package that also contains Shadow Moses Island and the Glade of Dreams.

I see your arguments and they are valid though the whole realism this is troublesome. I say this because I don't think that is a factor that can keep Snake out.
(the company relationship however, yeah I'm not sure on that one, that might be the real problem)

I look at Ryu and its clear that out of all the versions they could have chosen like the weird hulking Ryu from SSF4 or the anime one from MVC2. But no, they chose the one from the SSF2 series and he looks pretty "real" compared to the collection of muscles that is Ryu from SSF4. I agree with Rayman and I would love to have a DLC pack. "Call Into The Night" is the best song in Brawl.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Something interesting to note. If anybody cares.

I remember awhile back that there was an issue with Snake's Smash page leading to a title on other consoles. BUT HEY, CHECK THIS OUT: http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/ryu.html

Now, go to the bottom of this page and click on the link to the website for Street Fighter V. Not on Wii U. On PS4.

Just interesting, I thought.

Weird. The UK version: http://www.smashbros.com/en-uk/characters/ryu.html has quite a different link altogether at the bottom, linking to Nintendo's 3DS game. Had assumed it and the American website would link to similar pages.

The Japanese one however heads to the Street Fighter main site too.

What are K. Rool, Isaac, and Bandana Dee, chopped liver?

Late reply(had to do that sleep thing);

Nope, but the vets still outnumber the newcomers, who for me are more hype inducing than 'oh cool, that guy who was in Brawl is back'.
Mewtwo and Roy were at least a little hype for me because they'd been missing for so long, but I couldn't get excited about the likes of Lucas returning. He'd only been missing from a Smash game for about 9 months max after all.

You did ask for personal opinions on how'd we feel if that was the final roster so that's mine.

 

[GaroMaster]

I see your arguments and they are valid though the whole realism this is troublesome. I say this because I don't think that is a factor that can keep Snake out.
(the company relationship however, yeah I'm not sure on that one, that might be the real problem)

I look at Ryu and its clear that out of all the versions they could have chosen like the weird hulking Ryu from SSF4 or the anime one from MVC2. But no, they chose the one from the SSF2 series and he looks pretty "real" compared to the collection of muscles that is Ryu from SSF4. I agree with Rayman and I would love to have a DLC pack. Call into the night is the best song in Brawl.

I kinda feel as though realism IS a factor for Snake's inclusion because Brawl's artstyle is dark, detailed, and realistic, Smash 4's artstyle is more simple and colorful.
I can agree with you on Ryu, but at least he didn't have any moves that could've potentially raised the rating. I don't know about Snake, but did him choking opponents cause Brawl's rating to rise?
I'm rooting for both Rayman and Snake and I honestly find these two to be the most plausible candidates.

 

[Pakky]

I kinda feel as though realism IS a factor for Snake's inclusion because Brawl's artstyle is dark, detailed, and realistic, Smash 4's artstyle is more simple and colorful.
I can agree with you on Ryu, but at least he didn't have any moves that could've potentially raised the rating. I don't know about Snake, but did him choking opponents cause Brawl's rating to rise?
I'm rooting for both Rayman and Snake and I honestly find these two to be the most plausible candidates.

Point made:

Though I'm not sure if his actions did indeed cause the rating to go up. Then again *looks at Palutena pole dancing taunt * I think the ESRB needs to go home because it's a little drunk

 

[Kenith]

I'm actually pretty interested to see Rayman in Smash because he's a completely disjointed character.
As for Snake...I don't think he really influenced the rating? There was a lot more to Brawl's rating than Snake.

Like the overall tone of the Subspace Emissary (it was kinda dark). It was kinda grim if you think about it.
Also, Master Hand has open wounds after being freed from Tabuu. Not blood but it's definitely more than what is ever seen in Smash.

 

[Pakky]

My god could Rayman grab peeps from across the screen? Imagine cancelling a neutral B into a grab...

 

[StormC]

I mean, why put down "video game characters" instead of "Nintendo characters" if there won't be any as DLC besides Ryu? It's a safe bet to think one more will be coming.

Nintendo/Sakurai left the option open if they found a third party choice that was appealing but they are under no implicit or explicit obligation to include one by any means.

If we're getting a third party besides Snake, Rayman has a solid shot, but as a character who struggles to hit even top ten in a lot of polls, I'm not sure he'll have the overwhelming demand to warrant it in Sakurai's eyes.

 

[GaroMaster]

I'm actually pretty interested to see Rayman in Smash because he's a completely disjointed character.
As for Snake...I don't think he really influenced the rating? There was a lot more to Brawl's rating than Snake.

Like the overall tone of the Subspace Emissary (it was kinda dark). It was kinda grim if you think about it.
Also, Master Hand has open wounds after being freed from Tabuu. Not blood but it's definitely more than what is ever seen in Smash.

Why, if you want to pay a visit to the limbless hero's support thread, just click on this :
http://smashboards.com/threads/raym...eration-rayfall.324674/page-307#post-19609136
I love the idea of Rayman being in Smash just because of his lack of limbs.
Being a big name in gaming doesn't hurt, either.

Nintendo/Sakurai left the option open if they found a third party choice that was appealing but they are under no implicit or explicit obligation to include one by any means.

If we're getting a third party besides Snake, Rayman has a solid shot, but as a character who struggles to hit even top ten in a lot of polls, I'm not sure he'll have the overwhelming demand to warrant it in Sakurai's eyes.

Lack of support, eh?
His thread is the biggest third party thread on Smashboards.

 

[Kenith]

I still think the actual ballot results are going to be radically different than what the third-party fan polls say.
Considering all of the people who see the ballot but not these polls, or the people who choose not to share who they voted for.

 

[Pakky]

Is it bad not to want anymore anime like characters? FE ruined it for me, sorry.

 

[StormC]

lack of support, eh?
His thread is the biggest third party thread on Smashboards.

Sure, but SmashBoards isn't the world. Japan support is basically nonexistent. And just as a recent poll: http://smashboards.com/threads/nint...beat-earthbound.405399/page-337#post-19601644

Rayman is definitely a popular choice, but I think a third party would have to be on the level of K. Rool and Wolf to be feasible to Sakurai, especially with only "several" characters left.

I apologize if I come across as a party pooper, but I feel like a lot of people have really lofty expectations for DLC and we might see another wave of disappointment like with the Brawl and 4 unlockable rosters.

 

[GaroMaster]

I still think the actual ballot results are going to be radically different than what the third-party fan polls say.
Considering all of the people who see the ballot but not these polls, or the people who choose not to share who they voted for.

Exactly my thoughts.
Rayman has a lot of demand. It may not look like it, but the Rayman fanbase is a quiet bunch of people who don't really tell people to vote for him.
In other words, they're the opposite of the Shantae fanbase, where they're constantly in your face.
I mean, one can take a look at the Omni leak and the mass disappointment that came afterwards when it was revealed that Rayman wasn't going to be in Smash.

 

[Kenith]

Is it bad not to want anymore anime like characters? FE ruined it for me, sorry.

That depends on the reasoning. If you are a detractor to any character with a vaguely anime-ish appearance then yeah, I'd say it's pretty bad.

 

[Pakky]

That depends on the reasoning. If you are a detractor to any character with a vaguely anime-ish appearance then yeah, I'd say it's pretty bad.

I'm not really detracting because that would be unfair to some great choices. My apologies it's just after a while they all start to blend together for me.

 

[StormC]

I do feel like Smash 4 could have used more newcomers that weren't humanoid. Hopefully we see Wolf and K. Rool fix that.

 

[Pakky]

I do feel like Smash 4 could have used more newcomers that weren't humanoid. Hopefully we see Wolf and K. Rool fix that.

Maybe that's the problem. I just like a multitude of art styles in Smash, makes the roster look more diverse. But different strokes for different folks.

 

[GaroMaster]

Sure, but SmashBoards isn't the world. Japan support is basically nonexistent. And just as a recent poll: http://smashboards.com/threads/nint...beat-earthbound.405399/page-337#post-19601644

Rayman is definitely a popular choice, but I think a third party would have to be on the level of K. Rool and Wolf to be feasible to Sakurai, especially with only "several" characters left.

I apologize if I come across as a party pooper, but I feel like a lot of people have really lofty expectations for DLC and we might see another wave of disappointment like with the Brawl and 4 unlockable rosters.

Fair enough.
There are, however, two more things to consider:
He has three trophies in the game already, one of them being an entirely new model of Rayman himself. He already HAS content in Smash 4.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but besides CommanderVideo, I don't think there's ANY other third party from a different franchise and company to get a trophy, but there's also the fact that Nintendo published Rayman Legends in Japan, so his minimum support in Japan is somewhat mitigated by this.
In other words, it's going to be easier for Sakurai to get the rights to Rayman since he already has content in Smash 4.
Besides, he may not bigger than the 4 that we currently have, but he's famous enough on his own to make an appearance. I mean, his franchise has sold 25 million copies worldwide.
Nintendo may be looking at third parties in terms of popularity, but they'll also consider who would be the easiest to add to the game. Rayman has the content and the demand to make it in as a fighter.

 

[Pakky]

Fair enough.
There are, however, two more things to consider:
He has three trophies in the game already, one of them being an entirely new model of Rayman himself. He already HAS content in Smash 4.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but besides CommanderVideo, I don't think there's ANY other third party from a different franchise and company to get a trophy, but there's also the fact that Nintendo published Rayman Legends in Japan, so his minimum support in Japan is somewhat mitigated by this.
In other words, it's going to be easier for Sakurai to get the rights to Rayman since he already has content in Smash 4.
Besides, he may not bigger than the 4 that we currently have, but he's famous enough on his own to make an appearance. I mean, his franchise has sold 25 million copies worldwide.
Nintendo may be looking at third parties in terms of popularity, but they'll also consider who would be the easiest to add to the game. Rayman has the content and the demand to make it in as a fighter.

All three were new models and no you're right on the third party thing.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I see your arguments and they are valid though the whole realism this is troublesome. I say this because I don't think that is a factor that can keep Snake out.
(the company relationship however, yeah I'm not sure on that one, that might be the real problem)

I look at Ryu and its clear that out of all the versions they could have chosen like the weird hulking Ryu from SSF4 or the anime one from MVC2. But no, they chose the one from the SSF2 series and he looks pretty "real" compared to the collection of muscles that is Ryu from SSF4. I agree with Rayman and I would love to have a DLC pack. "Call Into The Night" is the best song in Brawl.

I think its more that they chose Super Street Fighter 2 because SSF2 was HUGE on SNES, far bigger than the rest. Its one of the biggest games on a Nintendo platform, so they probably picked that version simply because its the most recognizable to Nintendo fans.

 

[Kenith]

Are we talking about Smash? The Ryu in Smash is the modern version from SSF4 and SFV...

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Level-5 has been in business making games since 1998, and they have been becoming one of the bigger video-game companies with it's newest money making franchises like Professor Layton and Yokai Watch (especially). Professor Layton is considered to be the mascot for the company by many.


Seems like unnecessary mocking to me. :I

I state that although I like the Shantae franchise and want to see her, I also state something absolutely ridiculous is more likely. Unless you've got a problem with things unless they are absolutely clear, such as most autists or other handicapped people, it should be clear. I apologize in advance if there are any autistic or handicapped people here who feel offended, I've worked with them, very nice people

Yeah, that's completely illogical to me, Magikarp doesn't even pass the Pokemon criteria that well:
http://nintendoeverything.com/how-pokemon-characters-are-chosen-for-smash-bros/

Magikarp doesn't fit any of the criteria Sakurai states in this article, nor does have noticeable legitimate ballot support to be qualifiable for the ballot. Thus making him less likely than Shantae.

Why did my alerts say that you quoted my post in this post? Is it an error or did you remove it?

 

[ZeldaMaster]

One thing that I haven't really thought about with Metal Gear Solid, is that the series is well known for it's storytelling.

Reading an article on the Top 10 most well known video gaming characters reminded me of that. Granted I disagreed with the list. Mega Man wasn't on it, yet Gordon Freeman was. Mario, Link, Pac-Man, Snake and Pikachu were on there, as were Lara Croft, Master Chief, Gordon Freeman. I forget who else.

I partially agree, but with Miyamoto suggesting it, it may have been on Sakurai's mind.

I think Namco being involved sealed the deal though for sure. At least for a Namco character...especially after that stuff about Heihachi.

Also, freaking Buzzfeed even acknowledged Snake alongside Mario. Link, Pac-Man, Master Chief, Sonic, MegaMan, and Laracroft.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

I was rereading Pushdustin's article about cut Smash fighters and came across two interesting snippets:




I guess that went flying out the window in Smash 4, huh?

You're forgetting Star Fox too, though hopefully some good ole will remedy that, then we can get the Krool DLC.

 

[Mcvjjmdm]

Uh..... No.

I'm sorry, but I don't think we're getting anymore third party characters

Then Ryu gets released for DLC..... 3rd party characters are highly likely to be DLC due to the deal with Konami and Namco.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Don't talk about any Zelda characters but Impa, that's an official order.

 

[Frostwraith]

I was rereading Pushdustin's article about cut Smash fighters and came across two interesting snippets:




I guess that went flying out the window in Smash 4, huh?

Not quite.

He's talking about series balance in the context of roster selection and, if we look at numbers, only four series break the 4 characters mark: Mario, Pokémon, Zelda and Fire Emblem.

All other series have 1 to 3 characters. Kirby and Kid Icarus have 3. DK, Metroid, Star Fox and EarthBound have 2. The rest have 1.

If we take the three clones and DLC out of the equation given their unplanned status, Mario would be at 6, Fire Emblem would be at 3 and Kid Icarus with 2. Considering he's likely talking about prioritizing characters in the planning phase of development, not counting the alts/DLC gives more credibility to his words.

If we count DK, Yoshi and Wario as part of the Mario series, then the amount of characters would be 11, which is currently exactly 1/5 of the Smash 4 roster, DLC included. The reason I think Sakurai may treat those series as part of the Marioverse may be due to the great amount of times those characters co-star in spin-offs like Mario Kart, so a good amount of people may see them as part of the same series.

They aren't exactly separate universes, unlike Kirby and Metroid. The Smash games do acknowledge that DK, Yoshi and Wario have their own series of games, separate from the mainline Mario series, given they get content exclusive to those games and their own series symbol. Still, a lot of people may associate those series as part of the Mario universe.

Hell, even Nintendo associates DK as part of the Mario series in official merchandise.

Spoiler

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hell, even Nintendo associates DK as part of the Mario series in official merchandise.

Spoiler

Don't do this.