Character Discussion Thread

[AncientTobacco]

That's a pretty big "only." He specifically says it should be considered a very special case, and that "I know lots of people have requests and their own ideas about third-party characters that would work, but I want people to understand that adding a third-party character like Mega Man is a very special situation." There's also a timing issue at hand, as Sega stonewalled Nintendo for at least a year before they said yes to Sonic in Smash; DLC can't wait around forever to be developed and released.

When Sakurai talked about Mega Man at E3, he said in no unclear terms "I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies, but he's definitely in a class of his own."

I don't know how much clearer that can be.

Yet people still think we'll get "Indie reps"...

 

[BKupa666]

I want to see Nintendo create a booming new IP with "Rep" in the title..."Rep's Big Adventure" or something, so then, when the muhrelevance train rolls around, people start talking about how a Rep rep is a shoo-in.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

How would y'all feel if this was the final roster, with all the DLC? Because to be frank, this is what I think it will end up being...

 

[StormC]

View attachment 60709

How would y'all feel if this was the final roster, with all the DLC? Because to be frank, this is what I think it will end up being...

It'd be a great roster, but I find it to be pretty optimistic.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 60709

How would y'all feel if this was the final roster, with all the DLC? Because to be frank, this is what I think it will end up being...

I'd drop Ice Climbers and Chorus Men and one or two of Snake, Isaac, and Bandanna Dee.

 

[BluePikmin11]

That's a pretty big "only." He specifically says it should be considered a very special case, and that "I know lots of people have requests and their own ideas about third-party characters that would work, but I want people to understand that adding a third-party character like Mega Man is a very special situation." There's also a timing issue at hand, as Sega stonewalled Nintendo for at least a year before they said yes to Sonic in Smash; DLC can't wait around forever to be developed and released.

When Sakurai talked about Mega Man at E3, he said in no unclear terms "I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies, but he's definitely in a class of his own."

I don't know how much clearer that can be.

When you are creating 2 versions of the game within a set time limit on a pretty tight budget, then yeah, third-parties should be considered a very special case. However, the game's development is already over now and it's pretty clear that any company advocating their character is willing to make the agreement as smoothly and easy as possible to get their character in the game. (Especially since the ballot's announcement, which I bet jumpstarted every company to advocate.) It gives Sakurai less loops to go through to get the rights of a third-party character, giving him more freedom on what other types of third-parties he chooses from the ballot, not just big icons.

I will agree that the time is pretty important though, that will likely be part of the agreement. (Then again, almost any gaming studio knows that to be the case).

Yet people still think we'll get "Indie reps"...

Among casual Smash fans, that's probably the case, we probably can't change their minds easily.. Here in Smashboards though, people are probably more cautious with their expectations with indies.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

View attachment 60709

How would y'all feel if this was the final roster, with all the DLC? Because to be frank, this is what I think it will end up being...

Just get rid of snake and ice climbers


And then its a realistic roster.

For chorus kids rythem heaven stuff is being found in both versions, so could be added if enough votes for any rythem heaven character

 

[StormC]

When you are creating 2 versions of the game within a set time limit on a pretty tight budget, then yeah, third-parties should be considered a very special case.

This is just speculation. Nothing Sakurai has ever said or implied.

 

[BluePikmin11]

This is just speculation. Nothing Sakurai has ever said or implied.

There's a lot of content in the two of the games though, (counting exclusive modes and trophies and third-party characters) that likely brought up a huge budget cost for the games.

 

[StormC]

There's a lot of content in the two of the games though, (counting exclusive modes and trophies and third-party characters) that likely brought up a huge budget cost for the games.

And wouldn't the fact that the only third party DLC we've gotten comes from companies already signed onto the game kinda prove that the limited budget on DLC makes further third parties unlikely?

 

[N3ON]

@Fuzzy Pickles!
Out of curiosity were you also one of the people who said we weren't going to be getting DLC/nothing past Mewtwo/only two or three past Mewtwo?

Right now we're technically in Stage 1 for SSB5 because SSB4 is "done" aside from DLC. Major character support threads aren't allowed until Stage 2. If SSB5 follows this model, this is what our tentative schedule will likely be:

As long as there is still content being added to the game, it's not "done". DLC brings new stage to Smash speculation because it's a new element in the Smash series.

The rules around support threads are up to you mods, but it's not like we're done with SSB4. There is still additional content to speculate on, unlike with previous games, and the game as it is now is not "complete" as far as total content is concerned. We're in Stage 4.

 

[Autumn ♫]

View attachment 60709

How would y'all feel if this was the final roster, with all the DLC? Because to be frank, this is what I think it will end up being...

Needs moar Vaati

 

[BluePikmin11]

And wouldn't the fact that the only third party DLC we've gotten comes from companies already signed onto the game kinda prove that the limited budget on DLC makes further third parties unlikely?

With many companies advocating their character, they are likely willing to make the agreement as smoothly and easy as possible to get their character in the game, they'll likely make the cost of using the rights of their character as fair of a deal as possible. In a somewhat similar situation, Sakurai considered Pac-Man because of Namco Bandai developing the game, making the rights of the character easier for Sakurai.

 

[StormC]

With many companies advocating their character, they are likely willing to make the agreement as smoothly and easy as possible to get their character in the game, they'll likely make the cost of using the rights of their character as fair of a deal as possible.

Sure, but we still have word from the horse's mouth that third parties have to be special cases, several times over. Speculation that this is due to monetary issues is simply speculation that has no direct or implicit evidence for being the case.

Especially when we just got Ryu.

 

[N3ON]

Best post I've read in a while on Smashboards!

BEST FRIGGIN POST EVER!!!

<3

>Doesn't mention Andy or Sami

THEY STILL HAVE A CHANCE EVERYONE

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sure, but we still have word from the horses mouth that third parties have to be special cases, several times over. Speculation that this is due to monetary issues is simply speculation that has no direct or implicit evidence for being the case.

Several times yes, but not for the case of DLC yet, since that is likely a very different situation from developing the base games. Even Sakurai himself was pretty skeptical of DLC itself before he decided to experiment with Mewtwo, it's a new situation for him.

Especially when we just got Ryu

With Mega-Man's inclusion, it was probably pretty easy to include a character like Ryu.
(And the Virtua Fighter costumes from SEGA and the Tekken costume from Namco)

 

[Champ Gold]

<3

Way to crap on everyone's hopes and dreams.


I should sue

 

[N3ON]

Way to crap on everyone's hopes and dreams.


I should sue

For what it's worth I think there is an AW game in development and when it comes out the chances of a Wars character will be very good for next time.

I just don't expect any of that to happen in the Smash 4 DLC timeframe.

 

[StormC]

With Mega-Man's inclusion, it was probably pretty easy to include a character like Ryu.
(And the Virtua Fighter costumes from SEGA and the Tekken costume from Namco)

Like I said, those companies already being signed onto the game makes it easier to implement and unless another Capcom, Sega, or Namco character takes hold of the ballot, I doubt they will be one of the "several" more characters added as DLC.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Like I said, those companies already being signed onto the game makes it easier to implement and unless another Capcom, Sega, or Namco character takes hold of the ballot, I doubt they will be one of the "several" more characters added as DLC.

I guess it's really just a matter of how well Nintendo and the company cope with each other. There are plenty of requested ballot characters from companies who collaborated with Nintendo smoothly with projects before like Square Enix (Fortune Street, some of the Mario spinoffs), Level-5 (with translating, advertising, and publishing their games outside of Japan), and Ubisoft (The Rayman trophy and helping kickstart the Wii U's launch titles I guess) who could get a character in Smash if they cope well. I wouldn't ignore those companies if I were you.

 

[Oasis Dealer]

View attachment 60709

How would y'all feel if this was the final roster, with all the DLC? Because to be frank, this is what I think it will end up being...

Very happy with this outcome. Excluding all announced DLC so far, those 8 would be great choices (With my bias in though, I would remove Ice Climbers and Chorus Kids with Wonder Red and Paper Mario). Seeing Snake back would be a dream come true.

On the topic of 3rd party characters, I think there might be a slight chance of a newcomer or Snake coming back. It mainly comes from the fact that this ballot is for ALL video-game characters. It may be because if they feel like one is worthy enough to be added, they could possibly consider adding one as a character. What would be the point of saying all video-game characters are eligible and not even consider adding one? This does have it's limits however, since the 3rd party in question would need to have large ballot support, actual history with Nintendo, and then it all comes down to legal stuff.

 

[YoshiandToad]

View attachment 60709

How would y'all feel if this was the final roster, with all the DLC? Because to be frank, this is what I think it will end up being...

Needs more Captain Toad.

Honestly a little bit disappointed. No offense to fans of the veterans, but I want a few more newcomers and a few less familiar faces seeing as how we've got 3/4 DLC characters as vets. As joyous as it was to see Roy and Mewtwo back after their hiatus, I perspnally want to see someone new and exciting alongside Ryu.

 

[StormC]

As joyous as it was to see Roy and Mewtwo back after their hiatus, I perspnally want to see someone new and exciting alongside Ryu.

What are K. Rool, Isaac, and Bandana Dee, chopped liver?

 

[Morbi]

I feel awful about the common perception of Wolf. I am obviously biased as he is my most wanted DLC character, so, take my assertions with a grain of salt. Mewtwo is exempt from these statements as he was a juggernaut in the demand department and for the most part, he was never intended to be cut. And Ryu is a newcomer, something that everyone seems to be craving at this very moment. However, Roy was hardly a character that anyone truly "wanted" but most were reasonably pleased that he made a return. I am not entirely positive if the same applied to Lucas; regardless, most wanted him back for the mere notion that he was a missing Brawl veteran. So where does that leave Wolf? Everyone's good faith card was used up on Roy, everyone's Brawl veteran card was used up on Lucas.

What happened to everyone who wanted the most prominent and influential Nintendo characters in the game for the sake of a complete and cohesive roster? What happened to the sentiment that we needed to represent more antagonists as that is half of any beloved Nintendo franchise? Prior to launch, many, including Wolf detractors, believed that the Star Fox series was not going to feel complete without Wolf. Some wanted Falco removed instead despite his seniority because Wolf had a completely unique move-set. Something clearly changed, and it was not Star Fox Zero as that was one reason people thought he might be a feasible choice. Is this another case of "iconic Nintendo antagonist" becoming a token desire. Is that card being played on King K. Rool?

Do not misconstrue my intent here. I understand that this is a subjective opinion and most people just want to see something new. I would argue that even though Roy and Lucas were veterans, they felt "new." And Wolf could be the same, Wolf could have an updated design like Lucas. I am sure that that prospect excites Wolf fans that admired his gentlemen-esque nature as opposed to the feral interpretation that plagued Brawl.

I just feel as though we got the short-end of the stick. Now that essentially everyone has their veteran in the game, they do not care for the last relevant veteran. Ice Climbers, god rest their souls, are not practical with the eight-player Smash and 3DS limitations. Squirtle and Ivysaur were removed for a compromise (Charizard). Young Link mirrors Toon Link. That literally leaves Wolf and Pichu if I recall correctly.

If you take a moment to comprehend what that entails, it is slightly embarrassing for Wolf.

Every DLC character > >

I am not even sure if that statement is true, Pichu might be ahead of Wolf. Ha ha.

I am doubtful that Wolf will become DLC at this rate, the demand seems minuscule and most people probably supported him out of obligation rather than a clear desire for his return. I am happy for the fans of all other veteran characters, but to have your favorite Nintendo antagonist, one that you had wanted to see in Smash every since the opening sequence of Melee, disappear after a lack-luster appearance... it is slightly disheartening.

Fun fact: when I first joined this site, my signature was actually "can't let you do that, Star Fox." But hey, unlike Snake fans, I have a Fox costume vaguely reminiscent of Wolf.

/Wolf rant

 

[N3ON]

Most people still see Wolf as almost a sure thing so they don't feel the need to talk about it all that much. It's not that everyone has suddenly stopped wanting him, people are just using their voices and votes to support characters they believe won't get in regardless.

 

[Bowserlick]

Bitter, much? My second most wanted character is a third party. I'm just working with the facts here.

I'm saying it is unlikely to me - but not impossible - that there will be further third party characters with all of the knowledge we have of how third parties are handled in Smash. Many people operate on the assumption that there is a third party "role" to be filled in Smash rosters, even though it's been made clear that each individual third party was added on their own merits and not because Sakurai felt there was an arbitrary quota to be reached.

I knew it. You want to scream at people for wanting and thinking third-party will appear, give a host of reasons why it will not happen, but will not actually commit to what you say.

Coward.

Bowser frowns at you.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's not that the quota has to be filled. But the fact there are certain 3rd party characters (Rayman and Layton for example) that have many notable factors towards their inclusion as DLC, that I would be a bit surprised if we didn't get at least one extra 3rd party after Ryu. I don't think the majority would state their reason for seeing a third-party happening being because they want the third-party quota filled, but because they like the character and want to see them in Smash.

 

[StormC]

Wolf is fine. High Japanese demand will suffice for western complacency.

It's not that the quota has to be filled. But the fact there are certain 3rd party characters (Rayman and Layton for example) that have many notable factors towards their inclusion as DLC, that I would be a bit surprised if we didn't get at least one extra 3rd party after Ryu. I don't think the majority would state their reason for seeing a third-party happening being because they want the third-party quota filled, but because they like the character and want to see them in Smash.

What are the reasons Layton would get in?

I knew it. You want to scream at people for wanting and thinking third-party will appear, give a host of reasons why it will not happen, but will not actually commit to what you say.

Coward.

Bowser frowns at you.

What? Go talk to a wall.

 

[BluePikmin11]

You'll see my reasons when @PushDustIn posts my article tomorrow morning in Source Gaming.
I did hint it in this thread after all.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'm not worried about Wolf. I think we should get Wolf and then have the rest newcomers. Half newcomers and half veterans, pretty solid overall.

 

[Chandeelure]

Layton is a not iconic third party character with no popularity in the ballot.
He is not even in the top 5 most popular third party characters.

I'm pretty sure the reasons are "his games appear in Nintendo consoles and he can be unique", or something bad like that.
Not enough.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Being a third party character only means they have more loops to go through in a similar vein with Sakurai going to Game Freak to ask for a certain Pokemon to be playable.

Nope, been confirmed GF only recommends Pokemon for marketing reasons, Sakurai gets to choose the pokemon that gets added. Source? Just look it up on google!

 

[BluePikmin11]

He has decently notable support in the ballot. He doesn't reach really high like Bayonetta or Shovel Knight, but there he's there doing pretty well in support for his inclusion to get considered. One of the more notable third-parties brought up when it comes to the ballot and appears in many wish lists, you're over-exaggerating his lack of popularity.

I'm pretty sure the reasons are "his games appear in Nintendo consoles and he can be unique", or something bad like that. Not enough.

He's much more than that though, he's similar to Mega-Man in a sense, only he's one of newer third-parties:
7 of Layton's main games exclusively on Nintendo portables (6 of Mega Man's main games exclusively on the NES) and it's very popular franchise, especially in Europe. ( Just like Mega Man back in his early days on the NES) I'm going to keep it brief though, as I don't want to spoil some of the facts, as I will mention them in the Layton article I post soon.

I strongly suggest that you research about Layton. I'm a big Layton fan and have been playing his games for a long time, and I can tell you don't know much about the franchise.

Nope, been confirmed GF only recommends Pokemon for marketing reasons, Sakurai gets to choose the pokemon that gets added. Source? Just look it up on google!

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros

Even in cases like adding Pokemon characters, there are a lot of parties involved and there’s a lot of wrangling

He still has to ask Game Freak for agreement, they are still "second-party" to Nintendo.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros

He still has to ask Game Freak for agreement, they are still "second-party" to Nintendo.

Being easier to access than a third party and doesn't need to be 'super duper iconic'.
Magikarp's more likely than an indie character, and as I ****ing love Shantae and want to see her, that's saying something

 

[BluePikmin11]

Saying that you love a character and saying it's not happening doesn't help your case. Elaboration and reasons is needed.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Saying that you love a character and saying it's not happening doesn't help your case. Elaboration and reasons is needed.

It's called being realistic. I love Ridley, one of my favourite villains of all time. We all know how likely he is.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Saying that you love a character and saying it's not happening doesn't help your case. Elaboration and reasons is needed.

She's just being realistic, I would personally love to see Ridley and Gengar in Smash, but I know they won't happen, at least in this Smash.

EDIT: 'd.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's called being realistic. I love Ridley, one of my favourite villains of all time. We all know how likely he is.

She's just being realistic, I would personally love to see Ridley and Gengar in Smash, but I know they won't happen, at least in this Smash.

EDIT: 'd.

Don't assume that I know, you alway elaborate when you're in an argument, especially when you are doing an argument to a new Smashboards member. Otherwise you're not convincing anyone. That's what PushDustIn always told me when I make my articles in Source Gaming.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Don't assume that I know, you alway elaborate when you're in an argument, especially when you are doing an argument to a new Smashboards member. Otherwise you're not convincing anyone. That's what PushDustIn always told me when I make my articles in Source Gaming.

Okay then, let's elaborate: Ridley won't happen because Pyrosphere and Sakurai, Gengar won't happen (it pains me to say this, as he's my second favorite Pokemon and I'm the owner of his support thread) because competition, Pokemon getting second DLC rep is unlikely and almost everyone seems to be against including another Gen 1 Pokemon in Smash.

Satisfied?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Don't assume that I know

Sums up most arguments with you really.
Joking aside, lets look at my response again

Being easier to access than a third party and doesn't need to be 'super duper iconic'.
Magikarp's more likely than an indie character, and as I ****ing love Shantae and want to see her, that's saying something

I state that although I like the Shantae franchise and want to see her, I also state something absolutely ridiculous is more likely. Unless you've got a problem with things unless they are absolutely clear, such as most autists or other handicapped people, it should be clear. I apologize in advance if there are any autistic or handicapped people here who feel offended, I've worked with them, very nice people