Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

I think part of the reason why Isaac got cut as an Assist Trophy is because Sakurai doesn't care about Golden Sun, given that he kept Saki, despite the franchise being in even worse shape than Golden Sun at the moment.

I'll give you a moment to rethink what you're saying before I make my criticism. .....tomorrow.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Now that everything's sort of cooling over, does anybody think we could maybe try reviving the/making a new Ridley thread? Or would that still incite flamewars?

 

[Kenith]

Now that everything's sort of cooling over, does anybody think we could maybe try reviving the/making a new Ridley thread? Or would that still incite flamewars?

Ridley's "deconfirmed" so you're not allowed to have a thread for him.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's a stretch, to be honest.

While he could be DLC, I can't fathom Sakurai deliberately leaving him out as an Assist on the basis that DLC after the game is released was possible.

It is possible that Isaac was actually planned as a character but was so far down the priority list that he just didn't make it in.

It's unlikely, but we really can't say anything about why it happened.

Other than the notion that Sakurai dislikes the series.

That idea is dumb.


I will say that Isaac being a very popular request having his AT removed is an interesting combination. Intentional or not, it put him in the best place he could be.

 

[---]

Kind of surprised this thread hasn't been replaced yet. I could have sworn I brought it up a while back about the need for a new one. "shrugs"

Now that everything's sort of cooling over, does anybody think we could maybe try reviving the/making a new Ridley thread? Or would that still incite flamewars?

Ridley's "deconfirmed" so you're not allowed to have a thread for him.

Pretty much. This general discussion is the most we'll allow, as to be honest, there will probably be even more flame wars and off topic talk if a new thread was allowed (among other characters).

It's true the poll could effect their chances of getting into Smash 5, but this is the Smash 4 boards after all.

 

[Morbi]

It is possible that Isaac was actually planned as a character but was so far down the priority list that he just didn't make it in.

It's unlikely, but we really can't say anything about why it happened.

Other than the notion that Sakurai dislikes the series.

That idea is dumb.


I will say that Isaac being a very popular request having his AT removed is an interesting combination. Intentional or not, it put him in the best place he could be.

To be fair, "the best place he could be" would probably be playable. If you are into that sort of thing.

Just to play devils advocate though, we do not know that Sakurai does not dislike the series. Everyone has their own personal biases and his inclusion as an assist trophy in Brawl is hardly proof to the contrary.

But yeah, that idea is dumb.

 

[Deleted member]

It is possible that Isaac was actually planned as a character but was so far down the priority list that he just didn't make it in.

It's unlikely, but we really can't say anything about why it happened.

Other than the notion that Sakurai dislikes the series.

That idea is dumb.


I will say that Isaac being a very popular request having his AT removed is an interesting combination. Intentional or not, it put him in the best place he could be.

Isaac got removed as an Assist Trophy and Golden Sun's last game was in late 2010, even before Xenoblade Chronicles's release date in Japan and Dark Dawn had disappointing sales (before then the first two games sold well). Sin & Punishment: Star Successor released in October, 2009 in Japan and bombed even harder than Dark Dawn ever did (and the original didn't sell well prior to its Virtual Console release). Yet Saki, despite being the main character of a very obscure franchise, gets to return as an Assist Trophy while Golden Sun, a considerably bigger series, doesn't even get to keep Isaac.

Sakurai may not dislike Golden Sun, but if Golden Sun being on a hiatus is what contributed to losing its Assist Trophy, it makes no sense why Sin & Punishment didn't follow without factoring in Sakurai's bias. It's not implausible to believe that apathy played a role in Isaac's exclusion and that Sakurai likes Sin & Punishment well enough to keep Saki in.

 

[Chandeelure]

Yeah, I think I read something about Sakurai loving Sin & Punishment or something like that.

 

[Kenith]

"I hate Golden Sun, so I cut Isaac's Assist Trophy. I did keep the Golden Sun music track from Brawl however and even added a new one. But I still hate Golden Sun." - Sakurai

 

[N3ON]

Sakurai doesn't like any of the remaining characters.

K. Rool and Dixie because they're from a series Sakurai repeatedly gives the shaft.

Bandana Dee because he's mostly post-Sakurai.

Inkling because clearly they would've been made a character instead of just a costume and trophy if Sakurai liked them.

Waluigi because he's a try-hard.

Toad because he's no better than a meat-shield.

Ridley because he laughed at the idea.

Krystal because he didn't even bother learning who she was.

and Isaac because he's not there.

We might as well pack up and go home everybody.

 

[YoshiandToad]

"I hate Golden Sun, so I cut Isaac's Assist Trophy. I did keep the Golden Sun music track from Brawl however and even added a new one. But I still hate Golden Sun." - Sakurai

What a devious *******.

I guess we'll see if this #intensehatred of his keeps Isaac out or not.

 

[Kenith]

There are a number of reason Isaac might have been cut. Time constraints, 3DS limitations, etc.
Sakurai hating Golden Sun is probably not one of those reasons. He is a professional.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Am I the only one legit pissed that so many people are crying for Goku to be in Smash and pulling the dumbest reasons for it? It's seriously friggin' annoying to have to hear "GOKU 4 SMASH!" on any Smash Ballot-related video.

Same goes for Shrek and RWSG.

 

[Deleted member]

There are a number of reason Isaac might have been cut. Time constraints, 3DS limitations, etc.
Sakurai hating Golden Sun is probably not one of those reasons. He is a professional.

...except I've never said Sakurai hated Golden Sun. I said that apathy was probably a contributing factor to his absence as an Assist Trophy; Golden Sun's decreasing prominence as a franchise being the other.

 

[StormC]

Am I the only one legit pissed that so many people are crying for Goku to be in Smash and pulling the dumbest reasons for it? It's seriously friggin' annoying to have to hear "GOKU 4 SMASH!" on any Smash Ballot-related video.

Same goes for Shrek and RWSG.

You joke, but I would be down as **** to have Son Goku throw down with Mario, Link, and Pikachu.

 

[Morbi]

Am I the only one legit pissed that so many people are crying for Goku to be in Smash and pulling the dumbest reasons for it? It's seriously friggin' annoying to have to hear "GOKU 4 SMASH!" on any Smash Ballot-related video.

Same goes for Shrek and RWSG.

Not really, a character does not need to have good "reasons" to be included in the game. Other than game-play and whatever other arbitrary aspects that Sakurai takes into consideration that could apply to literally any character whatsoever. That being said, Goku is a weird one as, if I recall correctly, Sakurai selects characters that (to a reasonable degree) debut in video-games.

 

[Curious Villager]

Morbid! You're..... back!

Anyway, it could also be that Assist Trophies aren't treated any differently from Pokeball's and that some of them where just cut just because. Rather than being treated the same way as playable characters. Isaac's Assist Trophy wasn't the only Assist Trophy that was cut after all....

 

[AEMehr]

I liked Golden?'s theory on Isaac being cut because of his massive design overhaul in Dark Dawn. They probably just chose to not remake him.

I mean it's good that he was cut because it makes him a better candidate for downloadable content, I mean not needing to remove content in the game to avoid confusing players is a good thing in his favor.

 

[Owlflame]

Has Ryu been used in any smash tournaments yet?

 

[SuperSmashBattle]

hey guys im back,after a two year hiatus,it is nice to be back in the smash scene

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sakurai doesn't like any of the remaining characters.

K. Rool and Dixie because they're from a series Sakurai repeatedly gives the shaft.

Bandana Dee because he's mostly post-Sakurai.

Inkling because clearly they would've been made a character instead of just a costume and trophy if Sakurai liked them.

Waluigi because he's a try-hard.

Toad because he's no better than a meat-shield.

Ridley because he laughed at the idea.

Krystal because he didn't even bother learning who she was.

and Isaac because he's not there.

We might as well pack up and go home everybody.

Best post I've read in a while on Smashboards!

 

[SuperSmashBattle]

Sakurai doesn't like any of the remaining characters.

K. Rool and Dixie because they're from a series Sakurai repeatedly gives the shaft.

Bandana Dee because he's mostly post-Sakurai.

Inkling because clearly they would've been made a character instead of just a costume and trophy if Sakurai liked them.

Waluigi because he's a try-hard.

Toad because he's no better than a meat-shield.

Ridley because he laughed at the idea.

Krystal because he didn't even bother learning who she was.

and Isaac because he's not there.

We might as well pack up and go home everybody.

BEST FRIGGIN POST EVER!!!

 

[SuperSmashBattle]

Inkling because clearly they would've been made a character instead of just a costume and trophy if Sakurai liked them.

 

[Champ Gold]

Sakurai doesn't like any of the remaining characters.

K. Rool and Dixie because they're from a series Sakurai repeatedly gives the shaft.

Bandana Dee because he's mostly post-Sakurai.

Inkling because clearly they would've been made a character instead of just a costume and trophy if Sakurai liked them.

Waluigi because he's a try-hard.

Toad because he's no better than a meat-shield.

Ridley because he laughed at the idea.

Krystal because he didn't even bother learning who she was.

and Isaac because he's not there.

We might as well pack up and go home everybody.

>Doesn't mention Andy or Sami

THEY STILL HAVE A CHANCE EVERYONE

 

[SuperSmashBattle]

>Doesn't mention Andy or Sami

THEY STILL HAVE A CHANCE EVERYONE

 

[Rockaphin]

Has Ryu been used in any smash tournaments yet?

Yeah, there's been a couple of users that have posted videos in the Ryu thread. However, I'd recommend finding info on it there or in the Sm4sh competitive thread.

 

[Baskerville]

kek @ N3ON 's post

 

[Bowserlick]

These are my picks (who I think will be picked) for the rest of DLC. Here ya go.

1. King K. Rool
2. Dixie Kong
3. Wolf
4. Isaac

Third-Party
5. Bomberman
6. Simon Belmont

 

[StormC]

Why do people assume by default there will be a third party chosen?

 

[Bowserlick]

Why do people assume by default there will be a third party chosen?

1. Fan-service.
2. Companies want their characters in Smash.
3. Nintendo needs to build third-party relationships for future consoles.

 

[StormC]

1. Fan-service.

There are tons of fanservice character options that don't involve negotiating with a third party company.

2. Companies want their characters in Smash.

These companies have little to no influence on what Sakurai chooses to put in the game.

3. Nintendo needs to build third-party relationships for future consoles.

This isn't Sakurai's concern. He wants to make a fun fighting game, not a business decision for a company he doesn't work for.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Banjo-Kazooie
Yooka-Laylee

No one's mentioned the greatest instrument named team up though:

Ridley-Kraid is my favourite musical instrument. Or should that be Kraid-Ridley?

Legit this would be my favourite portrayal of Ridley though.

 

[StormC]

No one's mentioned the greatest instrument named team up though:

Ridley-Kraid is my favourite musical instrument.

Legit this would be my favourite portrayal of Ridley though.

Superior:

 

[Bowserlick]

There are tons of fanservice character options that don't involve negotiating with a third party company.



These companies have little to no influence on what Sakurai chooses to put in the game.



This isn't Sakurai's concern. He wants to make a fun fighting game, not a business decision for a company he doesn't work for.

Those are still reasons why people think third-party might be in. You can disagree if you want, but the reasons stand.

Nintendo (the company) also said that third-party characters are allowed on the ballot!

 

[BluePikmin11]

They affect the how high their character ranks in the ballot, giving the Sakurai the opportunity to consider the character. Being a third party character only means they have more loops to go through in a similar vein with Sakurai going to Game Freak to ask for a certain Pokemon to be playable. Third-parties in Smash are a pretty big deal to many and have the potential to sell big, each one having a different audience and demographic that it cater to bring people to buying Smash Bros.

 

[Bowserlick]

If the company begs for their character to be in Smash, then I am sure the contract process is easier. Plus Nintendo know has experience with this sort of thing.

 

[StormC]

Being a third party character only means they have more loops to go through in a similar vein with Sakurai going to Game Freak to ask for a certain Pokemon to be playable.

That's a pretty big "only." He specifically says it should be considered a very special case, and that "I know lots of people have requests and their own ideas about third-party characters that would work, but I want people to understand that adding a third-party character like Mega Man is a very special situation." There's also a timing issue at hand, as Sega stonewalled Nintendo for at least a year before they said yes to Sonic in Smash; DLC can't wait around forever to be developed and released.

When Sakurai talked about Mega Man at E3, he said in no unclear terms "I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies, but he's definitely in a class of his own."

I don't know how much clearer that can be.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Now that everything's sort of cooling over, does anybody think we could maybe try reviving the/making a new Ridley thread? Or would that still incite flamewars?

Deconfirmed characters won't be allowed to have support threads again until the true start of SSB5 speculation. Smash speculation follows a life cycle of three stages: pre-speculation following a game's initial release in all major regions - speculation following a basic confirmation ("It exists but we have nothing to show yet") - speculation following a true confirmation ("here's a trailer, y'all") until the initial release. Rinse and repeat. This is what this has looked like for the past two games where "Japan Time" has been an official part of Smash culture:

Brawl:

Stage 1: Q1 2002-E3 2005
Stage 2: E3 2005- E3 2006
Stage 3: E3 2006- Q3 2008

SSB4:

Stage 1: Q3 2008-E3 2011
Stage 2: E3 2011- E3 2013
Stage 3: E3 2013- Q4 2014

Right now we're technically in Stage 1 for SSB5 because SSB4 is "done" aside from DLC. Major character support threads aren't allowed until Stage 2. If SSB5 follows this model, this is what our tentative schedule will likely be:

Stage 1: Q4 2014- E3 2017
Stage 2: E3 2017- E3 2018
Stage 3: E3 2018- Q4 2019 or (more realistically) 2020

 

[Bowserlick]

StormC, I want you on record saying there will be no 3rd-party. Then we will see if none,one, two or more show up.

 

[StormC]

StormC, I want you on record saying there will be no 3rd-party.

Bitter, much? My second most wanted character is a third party. I'm just working with the facts here.

I'm saying it is unlikely to me - but not impossible - that there will be further third party characters with all of the knowledge we have of how third parties are handled in Smash. Many people operate on the assumption that there is a third party "role" to be filled in Smash rosters, even though it's been made clear that each individual third party was added on their own merits and not because Sakurai felt there was an arbitrary quota to be reached.