Character Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

So you think Lyn, Goroh, and Takamaru will all play the same?

No, Samurai Goroh would obviously be a semi-clone of Captain Falcon.

 

[Starcutter]

Let's talk Kirby. Who would you want to be the 4th Kirby rep, IF WE WERE GIVEN ONE.

For me, it's either Knuckle Joe, or Galacta Knight.

 

[N3ON]

No, Samurai Goroh would obviously be a semi-clone of Captain Falcon.

Just like Starfy was a lock, right?

 

[Opossum]

No, Samurai Goroh would obviously be a semi-clone of Captain Falcon.

...How? He uses a sword, while Captain Falcon's a close-combat fist-fighter.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

To be blunt, Chrom is pretty much a result of good timing and a good game. If there was a more recent FE protagonist (but not so recent it succeeded the roster being created) that character would likely siphon a lot of Chrom's popularity, especially if it was a female.

That and the fact he's the poster boy of the game that saved the franchise from extinction.

As far as the FE roster goes, my realistic want would just be Ike returning, at the least. Whilst I would like to see Lyn, I really don't think she has much chance, so honestly speaking, regardless of who ends up the third hypothetical FE character (Roy, Lucina, Chrom, Robin) I'd be alright with.

 

[BluePikmin11]

No, Samurai Goroh would obviously be a semi-clone of Captain Falcon.

I can't translate easily to Goroh being "obviously" a semi-clone of CF.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't understand the difficulty in looking past the fact that multiple characters have swords to see that apart from a clone or two, they all play pretty differently. What, do people think Takamaru, Shulk or Isaac would play anything like an existing sword-wielder?

Yes, though hypocritically they are the same people that will think Chrom will be highly unique.

****ing GameFAQs.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

...How? He uses a sword, while Captain Falcon's a close-combat fist-fighter.

Are you serious right now??? Captain Falcon's rival who is an F-Zero Pilot who shares the same role and similar body type wouldn't be a clone because he has a sword. Characters aren't exempt from being a semi-clone because they own a unique weapon.

As long as he shares enough similarities with Captain Falcon and can do everything he can do.

Not to mention:

 

[Opossum]

Yes, though hypocritically they are the same people that will think Chrom will be highly unique.

****ing GameFAQs.

I think Chrom could be highly unique, but I also don't think Takamaru, Shulk or Isaac would play anything alike, and I believe the "too many sword users" thing is garbage if the swords are utilized differently. Maybe I'm just a rare breed.

 

[N3ON]

Noah saying Goroh would be a semi-clone of Captain Falcon is him literally disagreeing with Sakurai, so don't get too worked up about it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think Chrom could be highly unique, but I also don't think Takamaru, Shulk or Isaac would play anything alike, and I believe the "too many sword users" thing is garbage if the swords are utilized differently. Maybe I'm just a rare breed.

I do agree with the factor that the sword stigma is just stupid.

I was pointing out the statement that "people thinking all sword users will play the same" thing is true.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think Chrom could be highly unique, but I also don't think Takamaru, Shulk or Isaac would play anything alike, and I believe the "too many sword users" thing is garbage if the swords are utilized differently. Maybe I'm just a rare breed.

I can see a possibility of Chrom being the Wolf to Ike's Fox, if Chrom was in.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Noah saying Goroh would be a semi-clone of Captain Falcon is him literally disagreeing with Sakurai, so don't get too worked up about it.

Wasn't Ganondorf chosen as the Falcon clone because Sakurai thought NO OTHER CHARACTER would be a good fit for a Captain Falcon clone or something like that? That obviously means that Sakurai saw Goroh as something more than a clone.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I think Chrom could be highly unique, but I also don't think Takamaru, Shulk or Isaac would play anything alike, and I believe the "too many sword users" thing is garbage if the swords are utilized differently. Maybe I'm just a rare breed.

^ This. ''Too many swordsman!" is the original and will always be as bad as "Too big!". The "Too big!" argument, like "Too many swordsman!", can be applied any various characters like Ridley, Medusa, Hades, Palutena, Andross, Petey Piranha, and a few others.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

For some reason, I would like to see Goroh using some of E. Honda's moves if he were in.

 

[Opossum]

Are you serious right now??? Captain Falcon's rival who is an F-Zero Pilot who shares the same role and similar body type wouldn't be a clone because he has a sword. Characters aren't exempt from being a semi-clone because they own a unique weapon.

As long as he shares enough similarities with Captain Falcon and can do everything he can do.

Not to mention:

Ganondorf is a faulty example. He only got into Melee due to extra time allocation. He wasn't supposed to be in, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that if he were to be held off, he'd have gotten into Brawl with a completely unique moveset. There won't be extra time this time for a similar scenario to occur.

That, and Goroh doesn't have Falcon's build in the slightest. He's much stockier. Plus, the sword is iconic to his character. Sakurai even noted that in the fact that his Assist Trophy is based around it.

Mario and Wario are both from platforming games, were from the same series, look as much alike as Falcon

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Just like Starfy was a lock, right?

Really???
So now everything I say in any area of any context is invalid because I once overestimated the likeliness of a character? What does that have to do with Anything???

Now you're just escaping this debate by not even attempting to be relevant to it. You're just going "Oh, look you were wrong about one character being in, you obviously don't know what you're talking about!"

If you have a defense then good, if not then please don't spam my inbox with stuff unrelated to the topic.

 

[N3ON]

Wasn't Ganondorf chosen as the Falcon clone because Sakurai thought NO OTHER CHARACTER would be a good fit for a Captain Falcon clone or something like that? That obviously means that Sakurai saw Goroh as something more than a clone.

That is correct. I guess Noah bringing it back up means he thinks his opinion carries more weight than Sakurai's.

^ This. ''Too many swordsman!" is the original and will always be as bad as "Too big!". The "Too big!" argument, like "Too many swordsman!", can be applied any various characters like Ridley, Medusa, Hades, Palutena, Andross, Petey Piranha, and a few others.

Well at least too many swordsman is just something people complain about, not something they actually think is a valid reason for exclusion like the too big-ers.

Though some probably think the act of carrying a sword is enough to be excluded and that's pretty sad.

 

[Opossum]

Really???
So now everything I say in any area of any context is invalid because I once overestimated the likeliness of a character? What does that have to do with Anything???

Now you're just escaping this debate by not even attempting to be relevant to it. You're just going "Oh, look you were wrong about one character being in, you obviously don't know what you're talking about!"

If you have a defense then good, if not then please don't spam my inbox with stuff unrelated to the topic.

It should teach you not to speak in absolutes. That's what you should be getting from it. You're not omnipotent. No one here is.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't think Chrom will be "highly" unique, I think he'll just be just unique in my eyes.

 

[BKupa666]

Again, if the vast majority of sword-wielding newcomer candidates were more than just D-List anime-esque young boys with spiky unusually-colored hair with run-of-the-mill 'brave and level-headed' personalities, 'too many sword-users' would be far less common a complaint than it is.

 

[Arcanir]

Yes, though hypocritically they are the same people that will think Chrom will be highly unique.

****ing GameFAQs.

Ironically, there was a quote from back in the day used on GameFAQS: "Whoever says there's too many sword users doesn't know anything about swordplay." Considering how many styles there are of just using a sword, there's a lot you can do to differentiate them, just look at Soul Calibur.

 

[N3ON]

Really???
So now everything I say in any area of any context is invalid because I once overestimated the likeliness of a character? What does that have to do with Anything???

Now you're just escaping this debate by not even attempting to be relevant to it. You're just going "Oh, look you were wrong about one character being in, you obviously don't know what you're talking about!"

If you have a defense then good, if not then please don't spam my inbox with stuff unrelated to the topic.

First off:

It should teach you not to speak in absolutes. That's what you should be getting from it. You're not omnipotent. No one here is.

Second, I'm not escaping this debate with you. I had this debate with you. You're the one who didn't reply to me once I showed how Sakurai disagreed with your point. I don't need to have it again.

Again, if the vast majority of sword-wielding newcomer candidates were more than just D-List anime-esque young boys with spiky unusually-colored hair with run-of-the-mill 'brave and level-headed' personalities, 'too many sword-users' would be far less common a complaint than it is.

How dare you, they are C-List.

 

[Lasifer]

Again, if the vast majority of sword-wielding newcomer candidates were more than just D-List anime-esque young boys with spiky unusually-colored hair with run-of-the-mill 'brave and level-headed' personalities, 'too many sword-users' would be far less common a complaint than it is.

The majority of the front-running sword user newcomer candidates don't fit that quota, so I suppose that's bad for the 'too many swordsman' argument.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Again, if the vast majority of sword-wielding newcomer candidates were more than just D-List anime-esque young boys with spiky unusually-colored hair with run-of-the-mill 'brave and level-headed' personalities, 'too many sword-users' would be far less common a complaint than it is.

So why don't people more complain about the character instead of weaponry?

(Even if that would only apply to Isaac.)

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ganondorf is a faulty example. He only got into Melee due to extra time allocation. He wasn't supposed to be in, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that if he were to be held off, he'd have gotten into Brawl with a completely unique moveset. There won't be extra time this time for a similar scenario to occur.

That doesn't matter. If Ganondorf is a clone of Captain Falcon, you can't have Samurai Goroh NOT be. Besides he shares the same Final Smash with Falcon.

That, and Goroh doesn't have Falcon's build in the slightest.

Slightest??? I can tell you he has a more similar build than this guy:

He's much stockier. Plus, the sword is iconic to his character.

Pichu is much shorter. And the sword is Iconic sure. But why does that make it essential? He's mostly just racing like Captain Falcon. So for him not to do the same as Falcon would just be silly. In the game he actually uses the sword less than Ganondorf.

So there is no problem with him NOT using the sword because he hardly ever does. So it's in no way essential.

Sakurai even noted that in the fact that his Assist Trophy is based around it.

Assist Trophy =/= Playable Character

Mario and Wario are both from platforming games, were from the same series, look as much alike as Falcon

Mario and Wario can't perform the same abilities. Falcon and Goroh CAN. Sakurai even originally meant for Wario to be a Mario clone. He said he DESERVED better. Nothing about their body build. It's obvious he deserved better because he can't even perform the same abilities.

It should teach you not to speak in absolutes.

Nah, I'm going to anyway. It's not like any of you don't when you talk about something you consider obvious. I know you have.

Second, I'm not escaping this debate with you. I had this debate with you. You're the one who didn't reply to me once I showed how Sakurai disagreed with your point. I don't need to have it again.

A point which was my own opinion that I never stated was shared with Sakurai. A point which I made with disregard to the definition of "shoe in"

 

[Lasifer]

I really wish people would start citing their sources when they say "Sakurai said."
(I'm guilty of this too.)

 

[BKupa666]

So why don't people more complain about the character instead of weaponry?

(Even if that would only apply to Isaac.)

Takes fewer syllables to say 'too many swordsmen.'

Same reason 'TOO BIG' is code for "I have the creativity capacity of a thimble with regard to character design and delusions of grandeur with regard to my character opinions."

 

[Opossum]

Saturn, you are literally taking evidence clearly presented to you from various people and saying, "but that doesn't count."

And then you put words in people's mouths and refuse to stop speaking in absolutes. Do you not see what's wrong here?

Pichu has a very similar build to Pikachu. If Sakurai wanted to have Goroh use the sword in his Assist Trophy, why wouldn't he give it to him as a playable character? Charizard and Little Mac both used what their NPC helper appearance gave them. Why would Goroh suddenly be different?

 

[N3ON]

@ Opossum
Just say that Sakurai didn't view Goroh as a clone since Ganondorf was chosen only after Sakurai ran out of all other ideas for feasible clones. At that point if he disagrees he's disagreeing with Sakurai.

 

[Bowserlick]

Well, Sword characters do ALL have the same Down Smash.

 

[josh bones]

That doesn't matter. If Ganondorf is a clone of Captain Falcon, you can't have Samurai Goroh NOT be. Besides he shares the same Final Smash with Falcon.
Semi Clone at worst

Slightest??? I can tell you he has a more similar build than this guy:

Pikchu is baby Pikachu, goroh is not baby falcon.


Iconic sure. But why does that make it essential? He's mostly just racing like Captain Falcon. So for him not to do the same as Falcon would just be silly. In the game he actually uses the sword less than Ganondorf.
Goroh falcon punching makes less sense thn ganondorf.
So there is no problem with him NOT using the sword because he hardly ever does. So it's in no way essential.
His name has samurai in it, a samurai not using a sword would make no sense to the 5,0000 people who never played fzero

Assist Trophy =/= Playable Character
Little Mac
Mario and Wario can't perform the same abilities. Falcon and Goroh CAN. Sakurai even originally meant for Wario to be a Mario clone. He said he DESERVED better. Nothing about their body build. It's obvious he deserved better because he can't even perform the same abilities.
Goroh can Falcon Punch, Falcon Kick, Raptor boost and Falcon Dive?


Nah, I'm going to anyway. It's not like any of you don't when you talk about something you consider obvious. I know you have.

response in blue
plz don't kill me saturn

 

[Opossum]

@ Opossum
Just say that Sakurai didn't view Goroh as a clone since Ganondorf was chosen only after Sakurai ran out of all other ideas for feasible clones. At that point if he disagrees he's disagreeing with Sakurai.

This, too, Saturn.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Saturn, you are literally taking evidence clearly presented to you from various people and saying, "but that doesn't count."

Evidence suggesting a bias viewpoint contrary to other characters.

Pichu has a very similar build to Pikachu.

So do Toon Link and Goroh

If Sakurai wanted to have Goroh use the sword in his Assist Trophy, why wouldn't he give it to him as a playable character?

Assist Trophy =/= Playable Character

Charizard and Little Mac both used what their NPC helper appearance gave them.

Neither have anybody to be semi-clones of. Also those are really the only abilities they have.

Why would Goroh suddenly be different?

Because he fits semi-clone criteria. If he uses the sword for his raptor boost what's the problem?

@ Opossum
Just say that Sakurai didn't view Goroh as a clone since Ganondorf was chosen only after Sakurai ran out of all other ideas for feasible clones. At that point if he disagrees he's disagreeing with Sakurai.

Man, I love how you think this is some sort of slam dunk. We currently have Wolf and Young Zelda was planned for Brawl. Sakurai never said he didn't consider Goroh, only that he thought Ganondorf was the best option.

Check your facts.

response in blue
plz don't kill me saturn

So let me get this straight:

Goroh punching doesn't make sense, but Falcon and Ganondorf does and you have to be a baby if you're body build isn't identical. Where did you get this?

 

[Opossum]

Saturn, you're literally arguing with Sakurai. Just let it go. Let it go.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Takes fewer syllables to say 'too many swordsman.'

Same reason 'TOO BIG' is code for "I have the creativity capacity of a thimble with regard to character design and delusions of grandeur with regard to my character opinions."

I thought the original expression was "too many swords", because it suggests people are using the weaponry as the scapegoat.

 

[josh bones]

Saturn, you're literally arguing with Sakurai. Just let it go. Let it go.

Not even in the slightest, if that was true wolf would have gotten in brawl.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Not even in the slightest, if that was true wolf would have gotten in brawl.

Wolf is in Brawl.

 

[Louie G.]

The fact that Goroh doesn't even LOOK like Captain Falcon, which is what you base your clone logic off of Saturn, should at least bring the possibility that he would be unique.
He's a fat samurai. They'd have to work hard not to make that unique.

 

[False Sense]

Quite a bit of Samurai Goroh debate going on here, huh? Is Goroh even that likely a character to begin with?

Well, in regards to the issue of being a clone of Falcon, my stance would be that, if Goroh were to be added to the game, Sakurai would do his best to make him a unique character, one that almost certainly would use that sword of his, unless Goroh was added in as a last minute character, in which case he might be a clone character. Outside of issues with time, I don't see why they wouldn't at least try to make Goroh unique.