Character Discussion Thread

[TumblrFamous]

Then that does NOT make it fact! That just makes it common opinion.

Then what about Meta Knight? Do you think his "broken" moveset and attributes as a character is just an opinion?

 

[Starcutter]

Don't get Saturn's line of reasoning.


Well its real late so I'm going to sleep.

 

[Parmite]

Well, that's the subject of a lot of debate. Zelda is definitely a prime candidate for getting a 5th rep, but it's not in any particular need of one. Considering that we probably won't be getting a huge amount of newcomers this time around, a new Zelda character might not be a top priority over characters from brand new series or more deserving older ones like Donkey Kong or Metroid. However, a 5th Zelda rep is still entirely possible.

Then there's another huge debate over WHO that would be...



...You do know that the tiers are fan-made, right?

That's true. I guess when I think about it, I'd rather have more reps. of series that don't get what they deserve, such as Metroid, or F-Zero.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm going to be completely honest here. Literally anybody can tell you why Ganondorf is bad compared to other characters in the game. He has several disadvantages.

I'm sure of it.

He is easily gimped, his recovery sucks, he's slow, has little range, is predictable...etc...The only positive to his character is his power. But he lacks any means to effectively use it.

That certainly backs up your opinion.

Denying that Ganondorf is bad (not in the fact that he is enjoyable) is like taking statistics for a study using trial and error tactics

No. Saying a certain amount of people hate jews is fact that a certain amount of people hate jews. Not that jews are bad.

These statistics won't prevent me from kicking ass with Ganondorf. Because it all depends on who is playing as well. But, just because I pwn with Ganondorf doesn't make it fact that he's good anymore than several people failing with Ganondorf makes it fact that he's bad.

It's a wide known fact that he's garbage compared to many other characters in Brawl.

I don't think you know what that word means. I certainly wasn't expecting this from you.

 

[Starcutter]

I'm sure of it.


That certainly backs up your opinion.


No. Saying a certain amount of people hate jews is fact that a certain amount of people hate jews. Not that jews are bad.


I don't think you know what that word means.

Do you even smash, bro?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Do you even smash, bro?

I do and I kick ass with Ganondorf. Once again, the amount of people who suck with him does not make the notion that something is good or bad to be fact. Good and bad can NEVER be fact in any context.

I don't have to agree with you about a character's reliability to have played Smash.

You know several people say Sonic R's controls are bad. I don't think they are as bad as people say. And the evidence that suggest something is bad can only suggest that it's a plausible opinion. But, it can't make it fact. Even plausibility is not fact.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Do you even smash, bro?

....stupid pun. How dare you make me laugh.

But yeah.... Ganondorf is pretty bad. Just because Sakurai didn't flat out say GANONDORF IS GARBAGE doesn't mean that it's not the truth.

 

[Parmite]

....stupid pun. How dare you make me laugh.

But yeah.... Ganondorf is pretty bad. Just because Sakurai didn't flat out say GANONDORF IS GARBAGE doesn't mean that it's not the truth.

I dunno. I would always like Ganondorf. More than CF, anyway.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

....stupid pun. How dare you make me laugh.

But yeah.... Ganondorf is pretty bad. Just because Sakurai didn't flat out say GANONDORF IS GARBAGE doesn't mean that it's not the truth.

Even if Sakurai did say he was garbage it wouldnt' be fact. If the creators of Sonic 06 flat out said "SONIC 06 IS THE BEST AND MOST FLAWLESS GAME EVER" would that be fact?

I don't even know why I argue this. Smash fans seem to always think that any opinion that has a majority = fact.

 

[False Sense]

I do and I kick *** with Ganondorf. Once again, the amount of people who suck with him does not make the notion that something is good or bad to be fact. Good and bad can NEVER be fact in any context.

I don't have to agree with you about a character's reliability to have played Smash.

You know several people say Sonic R's controls are bad. I don't think they are as bad as people say. And the evidence that suggest something is bad can only suggest that it's a plausible opinion. But, it can't make it fact. Even plausibility is not fact.

Your skill with playing a certain character doesn't change the inherent qualities of that character.

That's a fact.

 

[lobotheduck21]

yeesh, are we talking about canon being involved with movesets, really?

Last time I checked ganondorf only uses his flame choke in any of his games

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Am I the only one hoping we get a stage this week?

Anyway, my guess is our next character is Yoshi. It'll be nice to see him, but i'm not going to be super excited because of it.

The more exciting question is who else we'll get this month.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Your skill with playing a certain character doesn't change the inherent qualities of that character.

The inherit qualities being good or bad is not fact. It's opinion. I hope I'm not the only intelligent person here today...anybody else here who's read a dictionary?

 

[3Bismyname]

if a character has obvious disadvantages and bad matchups to a majority of the cast of any fighting game, that would make them a "bad" character moveset wise. is this necessarily fact. no not entirely. the character in question may still be perfectly playable and could simply be more situational than others. but it does lessen said characters competitive playability due to that reasoning. this is fact. i mean Phoenix Wright is horrible for competitive play in UMvC3, but he's still designed well enough and his special ability is can make for an interesting battle if done right. thats just my 2 cents.

 

[Parmite]

Am I the only one hoping we get a stage this week?

Anyway, my guess is our next character is Yoshi. It'll be nice to see him, but i'm not going to be super excited because of it.

The more exciting question is who else we'll get this month.

If there's a nintendo direct before Yoshi's New Island is released, I'm putting my money on either Dixie Kong, or maybe, if we're lucky, King K. Rool. (Or both. That would be damned amazing,)

 

[Joe D.]

This argument is leading nowhere. If a character is considered, "bad," by tier standards, then that's a general group's opinion. However, good and bad are imaginary terms in this regard. It's fact to say that a player can use a character well, and claim victory. It's fact to say that a character has disadvantages to specific sets of moves due to a restriction in their character, based on evidence of various tests of said characters claimed weakness, BUT, it is impossible to claim a character bad, because it is possible to win with that character, as long as the player can overcome the lumps in the character's move set.

Want hear a real fact? People have different preferences. Different people are good with different characters.

That's it. I'm going to sleep now, after I listen to these last few August Burns Red songs. Good night everyone.

 

[Deleted member]

More people should realize Akumadorf is the way to go.

I mean.....he's already got available means of a Gohadouken (Dead Man's Volley) and Goshoryuken (Dark Dive's uppercut in Brawl), and quite a few of Akuma's other abilities definitely fit Ganondorf's established Smash style.

 

[JamesDNaux]

The two veterans I want to see the most right now are Snake and Ganondorf, for two very different reasons.
Of course, I'd love to see the rest of my mains as well, Ness, G&W, Meta Knight, and the good Captain.
It would be great to see Lucas, Ike, Wolf, and R.O.B. as well so people will shut up about cuts.

 

[shrooby]

I do and I kick *** with Ganondorf. Once again, the amount of people who suck with him does not make the notion that something is good or bad to be fact. Good and bad can NEVER be fact in any context.

Okay then. Not "bad." How 'bout...
Through analysis of performance in tournaments and of hitboxes, hurtboxes, start-up and ending lag in moves, air-speed, ground-speed, potential for recovery, and among other character traits, various players of Smash Bros Brawl have come to the conclusion that Ganondorf's overall performance as a fighter is lackluster when compared to other characters in the game.
Because of this, some think that Ganondorf should receive some buffs to his moveset and general inherent qualities in the next game(s).

Think of that whatever you wish. Dismiss it as a biased statement based on nothing of significance, or a statement based on research. Just don't get so tied up in a knot over it, and stop making offensive generalizations about this community. That is unnecessarily condescending.

Am I the only one hoping we get a stage this week?

Anyway, my guess is our next character is Yoshi. It'll be nice to see him, but i'm not going to be super excited because of it.

The more exciting question is who else we'll get this month.

To be honest, I would find a Yoshi reveal somewhat exciting just because we haven't seen him for almost a year now. I mean, we all know that he's there, but it just feels so...empty. Just finally seeing him would make me very happy.
Now that I type that, perhaps "excitement" isn't the right word. I suppose "satisfying" is more appropriate. Either way, some emotions are felt!
I predict that we'll get Yoshi and some other random character. Meta Knight, Wario, Ike, Ice Climbers, Ness, Captain Falcon, etc. Probably not a newcomer though, sadly. Unless that developer thing that falls on the anniversary of Super Metroid means anything...which it probably doesn't.

 

[Kenith]

This argument is leading nowhere. If a character is considered, "bad," by tier standards, then that's a general group's opinion. However, good and bad are imaginary terms in this regard. It's fact to say that a player can use a character well, and claim victory. It's fact to say that a character has disadvantages to specific sets of moves due to a restriction in their character, based on evidence of various tests of said characters claimed weakness, BUT, it is impossible to claim a character bad, because it is possible to win with that character, as long as the player can overcome the lumps in the character's move set.

Want hear a real fact? People have different preferences. Different people are good with different characters.

That's it. I'm going to sleep now, after I listen to these last few August Burns Red songs. Good night everyone.

True. People who don't care about the competitive Smash scene (i.e. the audience Sakuria is looking at) doesn't care about tier placement, because there is no tier. Bottom line, it's just a guideline for a very special way of playing the games.
Anyone who spends five minutes looking at epic Brawl moments on YouTube knows how many people use Cap and Ganondorf in Brawl.

I do want Ganon and Bowser do be better characters, though. Honestly, I would like it if Ganondorf had a lot of slow, but unflinching attacks.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Brawl Ganondorf is among the worst characters in the game.

Ganondorf's recovery has terrible distance and is easily punishable.

A majority of his attacks are, while powerful, are also slow and/or have poorly placed hit boxes.

He is the slowest character in the game overall.


The fact is: Ganondorf's qualities make him a very difficult character to use, especially against characters with far better mobility options, better hit boxes in their attacks etc. However, it's still entirely possible to win a match using a character with such statistics.

Mewtwo in Melee has poor hit boxes in it's more powerful attacks, and is quite light for a character of it's size. This makes Mewtwo a difficult character to use, with many characters have many disadvantages over him. Taj is a highly advanced Mewtwo player, and still has a decent amount of trouble going up against characters with better statistics.

______

On the topic of reveals, any veteran would do nicely for me at this point.

For a newcomer, I'd like to see Ridley after those two pics relating to size comparisons. Palutena would be nice as well.

 

[Kenith]

More people should realize Akumadorf is the way to go.

I mean.....he's already got available means of a Gohadouken (Dead Man's Volley) and Goshoryuken (Dark Dive's uppercut in Brawl), and quite a few of Akuma's other abilities definitely fit Ganondorf's established Smash style.

Well, if Ganondorf got a complete overhaul, I'd like him to have a sword. And I know which fighting game character to base his moves from.

Yes.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I haven't been on the thread for a while, so I don't know if this was shown yet. I just want to make sure it is.

Japan's reactions to Little Mac.

It's really interesting how someone who's considered an absolute legacy in the West is obscure in Japan. While Little Mac was obviously revived with Punch Out Wii, Japan sees him as a completely retro addition for the most part.

 

[Chandeelure]

I haven't been on the thread for a while, so I don't know if this was shown yet. I just want to make sure it is.

Japan's reactions to Little Mac.

It's really interesting how someone who's considered an absolute legacy in the West is obscure in Japan. While Little Mac was obviously revived with Punch Out Wii, Japan sees him as a completely retro addition for the most part.

Just look at the Japanese Miiverse, Little Mac's reveal has like 1200 likes and Dedede's reveal has like 1700, same with Lucario XD

 

[shrooby]

I haven't been on the thread for a while, so I don't know if this was shown yet. I just want to make sure it is.

Japan's reactions to Little Mac.

It's really interesting how someone who's considered an absolute legacy in the West is obscure in Japan. While Little Mac was obviously revived with Punch Out Wii, Japan sees him as a completely retro addition for the most part.

Well, I suppose they now know how the rest of the world feels about some of the past characters we've gotten. *snickers*
I now have more reason to want Ridley. Just for more ironic responses out of Japan.

I know that this isn't very representative, but it's honestly still pretty funny.

 

[3Bismyname]

I haven't been on the thread for a while, so I don't know if this was shown yet. I just want to make sure it is.

Japan's reactions to Little Mac.

It's really interesting how someone who's considered an absolute legacy in the West is obscure in Japan. While Little Mac was obviously revived with Punch Out Wii, Japan sees him as a completely retro addition for the most part.

some of them are pretty funny. and thats more or less the reaction Americans or Europeans would have if say Lip or any number of other japanese only characters were announced. hell im sure Starfy would get that type of reaction.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Japan's reactions to Little Mac.

It's really interesting how someone who's considered an absolute legacy in the West is obscure in Japan.

...This just makes me feel like I belong in Japan.

But then I remember that I support Ridley.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I haven't been on the thread for a while, so I don't know if this was shown yet. I just want to make sure it is.

Japan's reactions to Little Mac.

It's really interesting how someone who's considered an absolute legacy in the West is obscure in Japan. While Little Mac was obviously revived with Punch Out Wii, Japan sees him as a completely retro addition for the most part.

That's pretty interesting.

I guess this further reinforces one thing I enjoy about Smash - how it exposes me to (and educates me about) series and characters I know little or nothing about.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, if Ganondorf got a complete overhaul, I'd like him to have a sword. And I know which fighting game character to base his moves from.

Yes.

Only if it's this sword.

 

[Kenith]

That's pretty interesting.

I guess this further reinforces one thing I enjoy about Smash - how it exposes me to (and educates me about) series and characters I know little or nothing about.

Some people don't like those kinds of choices on account of greed.
People...like us.

Honestly, the popularity of characters overseas is something we should account for.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I actually love the choices that I hadn't really known about before but grew to love due to Smash, Ness being a major example as I hadn't even heard of EarthBound when I played Smash 64. I've never played an F-Zero game before but Captain Falcon is one of my mains as well. I started maining Olimar in Brawl and then the first Pikmin I played was the third one, Smash also got me into MGS and Snake. Though I did know about (and had played) Game & Watch games before Melee, and even though I was still surprised by Mr. Game & Watch, I instantly jumped on him and added him to my mains despite "not wanting" him to be added.

Not to offend anyone, but I was just honestly baffled when I saw so much support for Little Mac, I feel like I can relate with most of these guys from Japan because to me he was just "some random guy from some random boxing game on the NES." I'm not bothered by him at all, but happy that he's in, and even interested to play as him, but I've still got that feeling. I can't really relate it to any other characters in Smash, it feels a bit strange to me, "legend" just doesn't come to mind.

 

[Lasifer]

Seems like Japan is reacting to Little Mac as most of us did with Pit, Game & Watch and even Ness and Lucas. Ahh, always good times with Smash.

 

[IsmaR]

It's more like how we reacted to Fire Emblem characters during pre-Melee speculation. Literally everyone was like "Who the heck is Marth?" Would include the whole "Roy = Roy Koopa" thing, but that's an exception considering his FE game hadn't released at the time.

 

[Kenith]

I actually love the choices that I hadn't really known about before but grew to love due to Smash, Ness being a major example as I hadn't even heard of EarthBound when I played Smash 64. I've never played an F-Zero game before but Captain Falcon is one of my mains as well. I started maining Olimar in Brawl and then the first Pikmin I played was the third one, Smash also got me into MGS and Snake. Though I did know about (and had played) Game & Watch games before Melee, and even though I was still surprised by Mr. Game & Watch, I instantly jumped on him and added him to my mains despite "not wanting" him to be added.

Not to offend anyone, but I was just honestly baffled when I saw so much support for Little Mac, I feel like I can relate with most of these guys from Japan because to me he was just "some random guy from some random boxing game on the NES." I'm not bothered by him at all, but happy that he's in, and even interested to play as him, but I've still got that feeling. I can't really relate it to any other characters in Smash, it feels a bit strange to me, "legend" just doesn't come to mind.

Seems kind of contradictory, but whatever. But Punch-Out!! isn't just "some random boxing game on the NES". It is a very popular for the NES, it had Mike Tyson in it for christ's sakes. Punch-Out, specifically the NES game is definitely a "legendary" game. It's a case where the character himself isn't the reason we really want him, it's the game itself.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I actually love the choices that I hadn't really known about before but grew to love due to Smash, Ness being a major example as I hadn't even heard of EarthBound when I played Smash 64. I've never played an F-Zero game before but Captain Falcon is one of my mains as well. I started maining Olimar in Brawl and then the first Pikmin I played was the third one, Smash also got me into MGS and Snake. Though I did know about (and had played) Game & Watch games before Melee, and even though I was still surprised by Mr. Game & Watch, I instantly jumped on him and added him to my mains despite "not wanting" him to be added.

Not to offend anyone, but I was just honestly baffled when I saw so much support for Little Mac, I feel like I can relate with most of these guys from Japan because to me he was just "some random guy from some random boxing game on the NES." I'm not bothered by him at all, but rather happy that he's in, and even interested to play as him, but I've still got that feeling. I can't really relate it to any other characters in Smash, it feels a bit strange to me, "legend" just doesn't come to mind.

Since the N64 was my first console, the series I was familiar with in Smash 64 were determined by what other games I had on my N64. As a result, I had no idea who Samus, Ness, or Captain Falcon were. I'm now very familiar with Metroid (particularly the Prime Trilogy), and I have general knowledge on F-Zero (though I'm still mostly in the dark about Earthbound).

In Melee, I was unfamiliar with Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, and Marth/Roy ( I continue to be generally ignorant of Fire Emblem). In Brawl, I wasn't familiar with Pit, R.O.B., and Lucario (since I haven't kept up with Pokemon since Gen 1-2). I wasn't familiar with Snake or MGS when Snake was first announced for Brawl, but my first foray into MGS was MGS4, so I appreciated Snake more when I first got Brawl.

I neither have the nostalgia factor when it comes to Little Mac (though I am more excited for him, mostly because of his trailer). But as with every Smash game thus far, there have always been a handful of characters/series that I was unfamiliar with, so it's no surprise that SSB4 would be the same (e.g. I know nothing of Animal Crossing, and WFT goes without saying).

 

[JamesDNaux]

Seems kind of contradictory, but whatever.

I don't see what's contradictory there.

But Punch-Out!! isn't just "some random boxing game on the NES".

Japan's reactions to Little Mac.

It is a very popular for the NES, it had Mike Tyson in it for christ's sakes. Punch-Out, specifically the NES game is definitely a "legendary" game. It's a case where the character himself isn't the reason we really want him, it's the game itself.

Mike Tyson means nothing to me since I don't care about boxing, or sports at all. I could see why that would be a big deal for some people, though I still don't get sports + video games. I specifically said I wasn't trying to offend anyone, so I don't get the sudden defensiveness, I didn't say anything bad about the game, I just compared my own thoughts with those of people from Japan. You've got to remember, just because one thing is popular, doesn't mean it's popular everywhere.

 

[Kenith]

I don't see what's contradictory there.
Mike Tyson means nothing to me since I don't care about boxing, or sports at all. I could see why that would be a big deal for some people, though I still don't get sports + video games. I specifically said I wasn't trying to offend anyone, so I don't get the sudden defensiveness, I didn't say anything bad about the game, I just compared my own thoughts with those of people from Japan. You've got to remember, just because one thing is popular, doesn't mean it's popular everywhere.

I mentioned Mike Tyson because it represented the game's success. Not because of Mike himself. He wouldn't want his face in a game that wasn't super successful, naturally. So it's not it was an obscure game.

It's nostalgia, really.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I mentioned Mike Tyson because it represented the game's success. Not because of Mike himself. He wouldn't want his face in a game that wasn't super successful, naturally. So it's not it was an obscure game.

Time paradox? He wouldn't want his face on a game that wasn't successful, so the game wasn't obscure. Yet the game couldn't have been successful unless it was made and released, and it was made and released with him in it. So he let his face be in it because he was from the future and knew the game was going to be successful, so he wanted in on it? My head hurts...

Besides, that's not really true in the first place, you can get a celebrity in on something regardless of the quality, else Foodfight! () wouldn't exist.
Note* I am not comparing Punch-Out!! to Foodfight!, just making a point that celebrities are sell-outs.

 

[Kenith]

Time paradox? He wouldn't want his face on a game that wasn't successful, so the game wasn't obscure. Yet the game couldn't have been successful unless it was made and released, and it was made and released with him in it. So he let his face be in it because he was from the future and knew the game was going to be successful, so he wanted in on it? My head hurts...

It was in the arcade without Tyson before it was on consoles...

 

[JamesDNaux]

It was in the arcade without Tyson before it was on consoles...

Obviously, but we were talking about the NES game. Mike Tyson wasn't on the arcade version.

Anyway, I never intended to start an argument about Little Mac, there's not really any reason to continue this. So just wait for (or start) the next topic or something.