Character Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

Why would I say it doesn't work. It's not like reflecting energy based projectiles with basic smash attacks which ALREADY doesn't work.
But, how is this better? Replacing a cloned move with another cloned move?

"It wasn't really serious"
-Louie G.

 

[Starcutter]

Opinion. A rather bad one at that. I happen to think he's one of the funnest characters.

Funnest isn't a word.

(but I guess I am having one of the funnest times I had on the board right now huehuehuehue)

And none of the PSI moves resemble the functionality of the ones in EarthBound.

*insert objection emotecon that really needs to exist*

are you sure on that? I remember watching a video that explains all that.

What's wrong with that? And if it makes sense to his concept than how does it not make sense to his character?

oh, sorry, I meant his appearances. I don't remember him ever doing a "warlock punch" outside of smash.


a side note, I wonder if he was given a float like peach he would be way too OP or not. I mean, that would make sense if he did that.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, some sort of method to get by projectiles would not only benefit Ganondorf, but also other characters like Donkey Kong and Bowser.

I think there should be a mechanic where large characters won't flinch from weak projectiles, because a recurring problem is that characters along the lines of Bowser and Donkey Kong are highly vulnerable to projectiles.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

are you sure on that? I remember watching a video that explains all that.

In Earthbound PK Flash is a flash of light that makes you cry. Not a sun that slowly moves and explodes. PK Thunder comes from the sky. It's not a ball that you can control.

 

[shrooby]

Opinion. A rather bad one at that. I happen to think he's one of the funnest characters.

He was referring to Ganondorf's viability as a fighter. He certainly is a fun character, I can't argue with your opinion there as I agree completely, but he isn't an effective character. He struggles too much with characters that have projectiles and with characters that have many quick and/or long reaching moves. Having counters is one thing, but a majority, and arguably the entire cast counters Ganondorf in many situations. This is a dilemma that must be looked at in some way. New moves, slight alterations, whatever. Heck, leave him mostly unchanged and just give him some of Mac's heavy armor. Just make him not the Gerudo King of Losers.

Actually...

It looks like Link is trying to catch the energy ball in the bottle...
I find this too amusing.

 

[Starcutter]

In Earthbound PK Flash is a flash of light that makes you cry.

hey, it made me cry a few when I managed to get hit with it a while ago

anyways, it also has a chance to one-hit-KO foes if you use it on the most powerful option. that's obviously what it was based on.

PK Thunder comes from the sky. It's not a ball that you can control.

oh, so you want Ness to be a Pikachu semi-clone now?

in all reality, that one was taken with little inspiration from the game, other than it's not always reliable, so that's there, I guess.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

oh, so you want Ness to be a Pikachu semi-clone now?

No. I want to educate you on the origins of PK Thunder.

 

[Starcutter]

No. I want to educate you on the origins of PK Thunder.

that's not exactly the rebuttal I expected..... oh well.

 

[andimidna]

Ganondorf should have more light-tennis-balls-of-doom than more sword stuff imo. :T

That's sort of Zelda's thing now.
I hope it's her new final smash, personally.
And it would function similar to Diddy's and Yoshi's, who I both also want to get new Final Smashes.
Ganondorf just needs to do what Ganondorf does.

http://youtu.be/KNEbc8voJ-I

This is the final Ganondorf fight in Twilight Princess.
Nobody is possesed. No beast form. No Horses. This is how Ganondorf fights. With the epic Sword of the Sage of Water.
If anybody seriously thinks this isn't enough to make him unique, rewatch the video

<>B: Charge Slash (pretty similar to Brawl's)
VB: Chance (this could be very unique depending on how it's implemented)
B: I guess Ganondorf could have the Light Orb (Tennis Ball of Doom) too as it would work very differently from Zelda's as she'd be in the air hitting it downward and he'd be on the ground hitting it sideways and would always be able to use it. Plus, her Final Smash in Brawl is already a different version of something Link already does... arrows. So... this would be a chargeable special that could get hit back to him easily (charged much quicker than Samus, Lucario, or Mewtwo's similar move, and would release automatically when fully charged)
^B: He doesn't do anything relating to a recovery... so keep Brawl's but make it less pathetic. I guess he coud have the Little Mac approach... no air game... that'd work... but he's so much heavier, that's why this combination resulted in him being on the F Tier (in last place, I think) in Brawl.

For A attacks, he should definitely keep his kick, he does it a lot in his boss fight.
But just some basic sword swipes could take up some moves... and the rest back from Brawl... not every move needs to be changed, especially his tilts and smashes... as they are less noticeably similar to CFalcon
<>A or ^A could be 'Finish' though.
Final Smash should stay exactly the same. It's perfect.

It's not too difficult to make him unique based off his fight. Him being a clone of a race car driver is a joke. And him being at the bottom of the tier list is a joke. Smash simply makes him look like a joke when he's actually pretty cool.
There's pretty much no reason to play as him over CFalcon in Brawl... so I'm not sure why anybody did. They need to make them incomparable.
It's not like Sakurai doesn't know he has a sword.

He's known for his sword, this should be his way of fighting in series canon AND non-canon

Even in Wind Waker, the version of Ganondorf that never made it to Smash, he has 2 swords.

This is how Ganondorf fights.
Ganondorf and Jigglypuff are the only characters that need big changes.
I only say Jigglypuff too as she's now a fairy type, and needs some fairy moves that fit the new her.

Spoiler

Also, this.
I don't suggest changing any of Zelda's A or B moves entirely, though.
She's not low tier because she doesn't have a true down special move.
Her specials already covered everything needed.
Din's Fire: Range, easily controlled, and can move very long distances and angles. It's my faforite move out of any character in Brawl, it works great.
Nayru's Love: The "get off me" move. Shoos off anybody next to you, behind or in front, you shake them off with this move.
Farore's Wind: The "escape" move, gets you away from the fight/opponent. And makes up for her bad down aerial, as you can teleport down into the opponent (which knocks them back) and they can't hit you on the way down because your vulnerable like a down aerial would.
Her specials are perfect, and Sheik is already great, especially in Melee, if they model Sheik in this game off of Melee's, she's fine. They already have a buffed Sheik to base it off of, no creativity is required. Also, if Zelda gets Puppet Zelda as her new Final Smash, Sheik should keep the light arrow, being able to choose what Final Smash you want to use would be amazing. And could be used strategically. Sheik has the finishing move easiest to hit everybody when everybody is just one person. If 1 vs 1, use Sheik's. If there's 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1... you've got a lot of people to hit, chances are somebody is going to dodge the arrow, so use Zelda's FS, she attacks with multiple light orbs, ground triforces, and charges with her sword as long as the Final Smash is going, like Yoshi and Diddy, she'd float the whole time and wouldn't be able to be hit. This choice could be very interesting.
Plus, Puppet Zelda simply looks awesome.

Spoiler

Her boss fight is basically the most notable thing she does in the game. I guess surrendering to Zant, saving Midna, and the horseback fight with Ganondorf were pretty notable... but I think this had a bigger impact...

The reason she's so low is a few things.
1) lag inbetween moves. Her moves leave her vulnerable for way too long, she needs to be able to go from one move to the next much easier and much faster. All moves need to happen faster
2) combo of slow and light. She gets knocked back pretty easily, but her actions are slow. This is a bad combination. Her heaviness is fine as she's strong, but make her harder to knockback if you're going to make her somewhat of a heavy character. If somebody is light, strength should be lower and speed should be higher. If somebody is strong, weight should be heavier and speed should be slower. The whole reason the tier lists go from a completely overpowered character to a completely useless character is because these 3 levels are not in balance.
This is to everybody trying to suggest Sheik's removal for Zelda balance.
Other things to fix:
3) transformation time, make it like Melee.
4) make the distance Farore's Wind takes you based off the about of time you hold the control pad. If you hold down <> for a just a half of a second, you don't go far. If you hold it for a full 3 seconds, you go 1.5x the distance of Brawl's. This would:
-make you able to move much farther to get away from something like Kirby's pot
- keep you from killing yourself off a cliff when you teleport in the direction of an edge. If you hit the wrong direction after teleporting (just a tap)... you're done, that was your recovery, so you fall to your death, but if you tapped it for just a split second with this mechanic, you'd teleport right next to where you were, just slightly in the direction you pointed... and you wouldn't be falling to your doom.

Zelda is my main... and I've died a lot of times because of these 4 things. When items are off, these are basically the only reasons I end up losing a life.

So what other characters should get this kind of buff?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It's not like Sakurai doesn't know he has a sword.

It's just that he doesn't care.

He's known for his sword, this should be his way of fighting in series canon AND non-canon

View attachment 9462

Even in Wind Waker, the version of Ganondorf that never made it to Smash, he has 2 swords.

This is how Ganondorf fights.

So would you prefer Ganondorf be a clone of Roy instead?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Sorry if this is off topic, but Iv'e been working on something, and I thought I' drop it off here:

I introduce, The Omega Roster!

[collapse=The Omega Roster]
Green = Confirmed for SSB4
Red = Deconfirmed for SSB4
Blue = Unconfirmed Veterans who were never cut since their debut
Purple = Veterans who made their debut in Melee, but were cut in Brawl.

So yeah, this is basically a roster showing almost every possible character for Smash 4.
I left Goku and some other never-appeared-on-Nintendo-console characters on the bottom just in case Sakurai decides to give in to Miiverse's crying.

[/collapse]

 

[Starcutter]

Sorry if this is off topic, but Iv'e been working on something, and I thought I' drop it off here:

I introduce, The Omega Roster!

[collapse=The Omega Roster]
Green = Confirmed for SSB4
Red = Deconfirmed for SSB4
Blue = Unconfirmed Veterans who were never cut since their debut
Purple = Veterans who made their debut in Melee, but were cut in Brawl.

So yeah, this is basically a roster showing almost every possible character for Smash 4.
I left Goku and some other never-appeared-on-Nintendo-console characters on the bottom just in case Sakurai decides to give in to Miiverse's crying.

View attachment 9464

[/collapse]

Yellow should be alternate costumes, like male fit trainer.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Yellow should be alternate costumes, like male fit trainer.

I'll do that once we get one or two more confirmed, like Dr. Mario or Girllager.

 

[Starcutter]

I'll do that once we get one or two more confirmed, like Dr. Mario or Girllager.

Or female Pokemon trainer, right?

 

[FlareHabanero]

So would you prefer Ganondorf be a clone of Roy instead?

Inverted sword hitboxes that aren't properly balanced and don't compliment a moveset?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Or female Pokemon trainer, right?

As much as it should happen, I don't think Sakurai will do that considering it's just a model in the background.

 

[Starcutter]

As much as it should happen, I don't think Sakurai will do that considering it's just a model in the background.

So? I thought developers liked small details.

Plus the trainer is emphasized in the win animations, so is not just in the background.

 

[andimidna]

It's just that he doesn't care.

So would you prefer Ganondorf be a clone of Roy instead?

I prefer to think it has to do with development time.
He almost wasn't in Melee, but he got in with the other clones.
In Brawl, they changed up a lot characters... time was pretty tight with the Emissary and last minute additions like Toon Link, Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Sonic.

A clone of Roy?
How so?
If he keeps his recovery that's very different.
He wouldn't have fire.
Also, I don't advocate for Roy's return. And if he doesn't return, who would care if he took moves from Roy?
Even though Roy WAS a clone of Melee Marth... Marth was a bit different in Brawl and is getting some buffs now too.
I can't see light Marth being too similar to big, heavy dorf.
Where do you see the similarities?
That chance move wouldn't work like any move in Smash at this point.
when you'd come in contact with somebody during the move, the first of the two to press A 3 times pushes the other back. It'd be a risk vs reward move, it could work well when getting somebody from behind who's not paying attention, but in 1 vs 1... it could go either way... a very risky move to use, which wouldn't help him out too much, but since he's the hardest to knockback (or is it Bowser?), it wouldn't affect him as much as a light character.

And you can go on and on about the "likelihood" of any of this happening, but it's more of a suggestion that would make the roster better.
Since he'd almost feel like a newcomer, the new "chance" gimmick would be very suited to his character.

Sorry if this is off topic, but Iv'e been working on something, and I thought I' drop it off here:

I introduce, The Omega Roster!

[collapse=The Omega Roster]
Green = Confirmed for SSB4
Red = Deconfirmed for SSB4
Blue = Unconfirmed Veterans who were never cut since their debut
Purple = Veterans who made their debut in Melee, but were cut in Brawl.

So yeah, this is basically a roster showing almost every possible character for Smash 4.
I left Goku and some other never-appeared-on-Nintendo-console characters on the bottom just in case Sakurai decides to give in to Miiverse's crying.

View attachment 9464

[/collapse]

Well... it has every character I want
I would've cried if a giant roster like that didn't have someone in my top 10...
(no. not really.)

Inverted sword hitboxes that aren't properly balanced and don't compliment a moveset?

What do you mean by this?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Name one besides his energy ball and his sword (which brings nothing new at all.)

I'll bet anything you bring up is going to be about as significant as his choke in Twilight Princess.


Opinion. A rather bad one at that. I happen to think he's one of the funnest characters.

An opinion can't be "bad". It's an opinion. It can be wrong based on facts. But "bad" doesn't really go with the term opinion.

Ganondorf IS essentially one of the worst characters in the game. He's slow, easy to predict, and has no projectile moves.

You can disagree with an opinion. But that doesn't mean it's wrong or "bad".

You want examples of things Ganondorf can do? Here are some of my ideas.

Ground pounds, as in strikes the ground with his fists and causes the ground to explode at different ranges (basically using magic). Using a trident for SOME of his attacks. Not the entire moveset.

I think the Flame Choke and MAYBE the Warlock Punch can stay. The rest should be changed in my opinion as far as specials.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Or female Pokemon trainer, right?

As much as it should happen, I don't think Sakurai will do that considering it's just a model in the background.

Maybe on top of the trainer being female, the three Pokémon could have lipstick, eyelashes, and bows too!
Then it wouldn't be a waste of work!

 

[Parmite]

Maybe on top of the trainer being female, the three Pokémon could have lipstick, eyelashes, and bows too!
Then it wouldn't be a waste of work!

Game Ovaries.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Game Ovaries.

I don't know if I should laugh at this, feel disgusted by it, or report it for something.......

I'll just laugh, that was hilarious!
And welcome to Smashboards!

EDIT: Yeah, that's going in the sig.

 

[andimidna]

Game Ovaries.

That's...... creative.

 

[Parmite]

I don't know if I should laugh at this, feel disgusted by it, or report it for something.......

I'll just laugh, that was hilarious!
And welcome to Smashboards!

EDIT: Yeah, that's going in the sig.

Thank you! I am glad to be here.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

That's the single best line I've heard all day.

Fix'd

 

[TheLastJinjo]

An opinion can't be "bad". It's an opinion.

You can have an opinion that an opinion is bad.

Ganondorf IS essentially one of the worst characters in the game.

Once again. Opinion. Kind of ironic you stated that as an opinion after you just lectured me about the differences between fact and opinion.

You can disagree with an opinion. But that doesn't mean it's wrong or "bad".

Once again, you can have an opinion that it is. Just like you can have an opinion that Sonic 06 is bad.

You want examples of things Ganondorf can do? Here are some of my ideas.

Ideas!? I thought you were going to give me a list of things he actually did in canon. Now I'm disappointed

Ground pounds, as in strikes the ground with his fists and causes the ground to explode at different ranges (basically using magic).

This isn't really much more significant than his ability to choke people. Both are about as notable. I'll bet maybe in this installment they will incorporate that into his Wizard's Foot. Having him go straight downward and do that when he's in mid air. It's an idea I came up with when trying to think of ways Samurai Goroh can be more diverse with both Falcon and Ganon in the game.

Using a trident for SOME of his attacks. Not the entire moveset.

I thought we were talking about GanonDORF. Isn't that like giving Suited Samus the beam gun that ZS has? Or giving Zelda ninja abilities?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You can have an opinion that an opinion is bad. Can't you just say that you disagree instead of being rude and telling someone their opinion is "bad"?



Once again. Opinion. Kind of ironic you stated that as an opinion after you just lectured me about the differences between fact and opinion. I was referring to Ganondorf as he is placed on the tier list. He is by far one of the worst characters in the game based on how he is built. That is fact. If you think he's fun to play as that's fine. I'm not saying he isn't fun. I didn't lecture you. I simply told you not to mix them up basically.


Once again, you can have an opinion that it is. Just like you can have an opinion that Sonic 06 is bad.
See my first response.

Ideas!? I thought you were going to give me a list of things he actually did in canon. Now I'm disappointed
Off hand, I can't think of any. But there is surely source material to use on Ganondorf instead of giving him a slightly modified moveset of a race car driver. Give me a bit and I'll come up with something. I don't have a whole lot of time to look stuff up right now.

This isn't really much more significant than his ability to choke people. Both are about as notable. I'll bet maybe in this installment they will incorporate that into his Wizard's Foot. Having him go straight downward and do that when he's in mid air. It's an idea I came up with when trying to think of ways Samurai Goroh can be more diverse with both Falcon and Ganon in the game. Your opinion, and it's something that nobody else does in Smash right now. It would easily be something that gives him range, while being unique.


I thought we were talking about GanonDORF. Isn't that like giving Suited Samus the beam gun that ZS has? Or giving Zelda ninja abilities? Ganondorf is simply the humanoid form of Ganon. Considering liberties are taken elsewhere, I don't see the problem with giving him something that a different form of him uses. The other two examples you used wouldn't make any sense, because their alter egos are already playable, and therefore wouldn't need those put into their movesets. All I'm saying is, that 2 or 3 moves can go a long way with Ganondorf.

Responses in red

 

[JamesDNaux]

This is the character thread, not the "post a single off topic word" thread.

Fixed.

Saturn is either extremely biased, too stubborn to admit that he's wrong, or just trolling everyone hard. Why is there always an argument whenever Ganondorf is brought up? I just can't understand how anyone wouldn't want Ganondorf to be unique and actually play like Ganondorf instead of old man Falcon.

 

[Bowserlick]

Just have Ganondorf create an electrical trident when he does his dashing shoulder bash if you want to include it.

(Or include the trident during his down B instead of using his foot)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm not going for an entire overhaul, but just 2 or 3 moves. He's not in as bad a position as people think. Give him better stats, a few new moves, and you're all set.

 

[Parmite]

Who's to say Ganondorf will even return? I want him in , and I think he will return, but there is a chance he won't make into the fourth game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Responses in red

Ganondorf as he is placed on the tier list. He is by far one of the worst characters in the game based on how he is built. That is fact.
Know it's not. It's Sakurai's opinion. Just because it's the creator doesn't make it fact anymore than Sonic 06 being good is fact because the game designers say so.


Off hand, I can't think of any. But there is surely source material to use on Ganondorf instead of giving him a slightly modified moveset of a race car driver.
Well, see that's my point. There's not much source material that is remotely notable. So there is nothing wrong with Ganondorf having moves based on his concept that isn't necessarily 100% canonically accurate anymore than Marth.

And you know I don't think the fact that Captain Falcon has this move set is relevant at all. It's a move set original to smash. It's not really something unique to Captain Falcon either.

Ganondorf is simply the humanoid form of Ganon.
Simply!?!? It's not that simple. It's a giant pig VS a man. Once again, it makes as much sense as Woman in latex VS Woman in Robot Armor.

Considering liberties are taken elsewhere, I don't see the problem with giving him something that a different form of him uses.
YOU don't. But, I wouldn't guarantee Sakurai feels the same way. I'd be against the assumption that he is given he doesn't take abilities from completely different forms.


The other two examples you used wouldn't make any sense, because their alter egos are already playable
How is that relevant!? It's the same concept.

and therefore wouldn't need those put into their movesets.
The Trident is in NO way essential and I highly protest it's importance.

\ but there is a chance he won't make into the fourth game.

Would not agree.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Who's to say Ganondorf will even return? I want him in , and I think he will, too, but there is a chance he won't make into the fourth game.

Eh, I don't think that will be a problem. They're not going to replace him with one-off Ghirahim or Yuga. He's still the most important villain of Zelda, and is arguably the most iconic to Zelda in general. He's a two time Smash veteran. He's not getting cut.

 

[Parmite]

Eh, I don't think that will be a problem. They're not going to replace him with one-off Ghirahim or Yuga. He's still the most important villain of Zelda, and is arguably the most iconic to Zelda in general. He's a two time Smash veteran. He's not getting cut.

But will other Zelda reps. get in? I hope so. Even though we already have a lot, I'm still hoping for another Zelda character.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Responses in red

First, Sakurai DID NOT create the tier list. The tier list is fan made based on performance in competitive play. I'm sorry, but Ganondorf, when compared to the rest of the cast of Smash Bros., is statistically one of the worst characters of the game. I'm not talking about enjoying as playing him because that is irrelevant.

Second, Ganondorf is the humanoid form of Ganon. That is literally what he is. Ganon takes different forms because of the powers he has. He change forms in both OoT and TP. Going from Gerudo, to Pig, to Gerudo again. They are different forms just as Sheik is a different form of Zelda, and Samus and ZSS.

Other than that I really have nothing else to say.

 

[False Sense]

But will other Zelda reps. get in? I hope so. Even though we already have a lot, I'm still hoping for another Zelda character.

Well, that's the subject of a lot of debate. Zelda is definitely a prime candidate for getting a 5th rep, but it's not in any particular need of one. Considering that we probably won't be getting a huge amount of newcomers this time around, a new Zelda character might not be a top priority over characters from brand new series or more deserving older ones like Donkey Kong or Metroid. However, a 5th Zelda rep is still entirely possible.

Then there's another huge debate over WHO that would be...

Responses in red

...You do know that the tiers are fan-made, right?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Here's a moveset that keeps a good majority of moves, but with small tweaks that help him out.
[collapse=Decloned Ganon]
Standard Attacks
Jab- Single strong thrust like in Brawl, but can be charged by holding down the button, resulting in a mini-Warlock Punch.
Combo- Continues from his jab with continuous sword stabs for as long as the button is mashed. This cannot be performed if the jab was charged.
FTilt- Same as in Brawl, performs a Sparta kick, angle-able like in Project M.
UTilt- A dark uppercut, similar to Snake's Project M UTilt.
DTilt- Same as in Brawl, but with added dark magic effects.
Dash- Same shoulder bash as Brawl, but with an added sword swipe quickly afterwards.

Smash Attacks
Forward- A two part attack, does his elbow bash as in Brawl, but then swings out with a wide sword strike upon a second press of the button.
Up- Swings his sword upwards and ends in a thrust like Marth's Up Smash, has a dark electrical effect as a callback to Demise.
Down- Does his own small version of Link's spin attack, swiping his sword in a low spin. Leaves a dark trail that causes damage. Functions the same as his previous down smash.

Arials
Nair- Spins around swinging his sword, covers himself in damaging dark magic.
Fair- Swings his sword forward in a downward arch.
Bair- Swings his sword back with a dark magic effect and then kicks once.
Uair- Same as in Brawl.
Dair- Same as in Brawl.

Specials
Neutral- Dead Man's Volley: A projectile attack that can be controlled similarly to Din's Fire on the initial release, but can only be charged while Ganondorf is holding it. It can be reflected back with attacks, but will still cause damage if it hits shields, this can lead to the classic "tennis match" between Ganondorf and an opponent. Has slight homing properties.
Side- Dark Choke: Same as in Brawl, but with added armour frames, can be canceled into a kick similar to Wizard's Foot by holding the button.
Down- Warlock Slam: A similar move to Wizard's Foot in the air, it causes Ganondorf to slam down to the ground with a kick. On the ground, he will stomp the ground and slam down his hand with a shockwave that can stun enemies.
Up- Gerudo Dragon: An upgraded version of Ganondorf's previous recovery, he will still perform the dark uppercut if he misses and will still grab when he hits, but the height of his leap is greatly increased and ends in a slight hover.
Final Smash- Beast Ganon: Ganondorf transforms into his dark beast form which is now controllable this time, it lasts about as long as Giga Bowser in Brawl. His sword attacks are now replaced with trident strikes while his other attacks are replaced with ramming attacks. His special attacks are changed to reflect his beastly form:
Neutral- A stronger version of the Dead Man's Volley that doesn't need a charge and won't be reflected back at Ganon, but only dissipates if attacked or reflected.
Side- A charging ram, similar to the movement his original final smash from Brawl did.
Down- Slams the ground, burying opponents.
Up- A giant leap that causes Ganon to fly off-screen before slamming back down with a shockwave. [/collapse]
Still has the brute force attacks, but some of them can be linked into strong sword strikes, he's got the Dead Man's Vollet, and he's even got the choke and the kick, conveniently placed into a single input. Of course, completely unlikely, bit it's an example of what's possible. Particularly for hacking.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

First, Sakurai DID NOT create the tier list. The tier list is fan made based on performance in competitive play.

Then that does NOT make it fact! That just makes it common opinion.

Second, Ganondorf is the humanoid form of Ganon. That is literally what he is.

We already discussed that. I told you why that doesn't justify the trident.

Ganon takes different forms because of the powers he has. He change forms in both OoT and TP. Going from Gerudo, to Pig, to Gerudo again. They are different forms just as Sheik is a different form of Zelda, and Samus and ZSS.

Which proves my point.

 

[andimidna]

An opinion can't be "bad". It's an opinion. It can be wrong based on facts. But "bad" doesn't really go with the term opinion.

Ganondorf IS essentially one of the worst characters in the game. He's slow, easy to predict, and has no projectile moves.

You can disagree with an opinion. But that doesn't mean it's wrong or "bad".

You want examples of things Ganondorf can do? Here are some of my ideas.

Ground pounds, as in strikes the ground with his fists and causes the ground to explode at different ranges (basically using magic). Using a trident for SOME of his attacks. Not the entire moveset.

I think the Flame Choke and MAYBE the Warlock Punch can stay. The rest should be changed in my opinion as far as specials.

What if my opinion was that opinions can be bad. Would my opinion be wrong?


To stay on topic, what do you guys think about my modifications for Zelda and Ganondorf?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Than that does NOT make it fact!

I'm going to be completely honest here. Literally anybody can tell you why Ganondorf is bad compared to other characters in the game. He has several disadvantages.

He is easily gimped, his recovery sucks, he's slow, has little range, is predictable...etc...The only positive to his character is his power. But he lacks any means to effectively use it.

Denying that Ganondorf is bad (not in the fact that he is enjoyable) is like taking statistics for a study using trial and error tactics, and then flat out denying what the evidence points towards. It's a wide known fact that he's garbage compared to many other characters in Brawl. I'm not going to explain it further than that.