Character Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

I think we should just give Ganondorf his sword. That way he would have a totally unique moveset.

How do you figure that??

 

[Curious Villager]

Ganondorf should have more light-tennis-balls-of-doom than more sword stuff imo. :T

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ganondorf should have more light-tennis-balls-of-doom than more sword stuff imo. :T

That doesn't sound unique enough to where it'd be worth the effort.

 

[Curious Villager]

That doesn't sound unique enough to where it'd be worth the effort.

But..... It would be fun to slash that thing back and forth at your opponent...

Oh a trident would be nice too....

 

[Parmite]

How do you figure that??

Well, if you gave him his sword, he could combine his dark powers with the sword, so he wouldn't just be your average swordsman. Also, he is strong and heavy, unlike a lot of other sword wielders. Also, I vote his final smash turning into Ganon from the first LoZ. Turning into the thing for TP was kinda boring.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

But..... It would be fun to slash that thing back and forth at your opponent...

I think it would be more fun if he had his current move set. I don't see how giving him somebody else's abilities will fix the "problem" that he has somebody else's abilities.

 

[Starcutter]

Ganondorf should have more light-tennis-balls-of-doom than more sword stuff imo. :T

you mean like...

Spoiler

 

[Joe D.]

I think if Ganondorf's speed was increased, with a couple of noticable variations to his general smash attacks, he'd be perfectly fine. His current speed cripples his ability to perform on the battlefield.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think it would be more fun if he had his current move set. I don't see how giving him somebody else's abilities will fix the "problem" that he has somebody else's abilities.

Eh? But Ganondorf can use that move in Ocarina of Time, it's one of his abilities too.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well, if you gave him his sword, he could combine his dark powers with the sword, so he wouldn't just be your average swordsman.

You mean he'd be Roy?

Also, he is strong and heavy, unlike a lot of other sword wielders.

Eh? But Ganondorf can use that move in Ocarina of Time, it's one of his abilities too.

Sounds like a watered down version of Shadow Ball or Din's Fire.

 

[Parmite]

Eh? But Ganondorf can use that move in Ocarina of Time, it's one of his abilities too.

I would think it would be cool if he used the balls o' energy.

You mean he'd be Roy?

Sounds like a watered down version of Shadow Ball or Din's Fire.

And even though I want Roy back, I don't think he is. I didn't say ALL sword wielders.

 

[Starcutter]

Sounds like a watered down version of Shadow Ball or Din's Fire.

but IT CAN BE VOLLEYED BACK!

LIKE TENNIS

Spoiler

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ganondorf's move set is okay and fits his character just fine. Giving Ganondorf a unique move set is a really bad idea considering that it wouldn't even be that unique in the first place and Sakurai said he has to "reduce some characters".

 

[Parmite]

Ganondorf's move set is okay and fits his character just fine. Giving Ganondorf a unique move set is a really bad idea considering that it wouldn't even be that unique in the first place and Sakurai said he has to "reduce some characters".

I dunno. He is literally just a heavy and slow Captain Falcon. If he you really think he would be THAT bad if he was unique, then maybe he should just be removed and traded in for another Zelda villain.

 

[Starcutter]

Ganondorf's move set is okay and fits his character just fine. Giving Ganondorf a unique move set is a really bad idea considering that it wouldn't even be that unique in the first place and Sakurai said he has to "reduce some characters".

think of it this way: would it be more unique or better to have a heavy, powerful physical character with a single high power projectile?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I dunno. He is literally just a heavy and slow Captain Falcon.

I'm talking about Brawl. Not Melee. He's very different in Brawl.

If he you really think he would be THAT bad if he was unique, then maybe he should just be removed and traded in for another Zelda villain.

I care more about WHO I'm playing as. I'm not the kinda Smash fan who would play as a salami sandwich so long as it's move set is completely original.

And given that Ganondorf has a unique enough move set, I don't see the problem.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ganondorf's specials should come from his game. At least one of them.

B is usually an iconic move. Ganondorf has fans.

His iconic move is a ball of energy that could be volleyed back and forth.

Have the sphere increase size and power each time it is hit depending on the move that connects with it. This gives Ganondorf the ability to really make the proectile powerful. If the sphere moves slow enough, it could be hard to spot dodge. Plus it could help Ganondorf's approach.

 

[Parmite]

I'm talking about Brawl. Not Melee. He's very different in Brawl.


I care more about WHO I'm playing as. I'm not the kinda Smash fan who would play as a salami sandwich so long as it's move set is completely original.

And given that Ganondorf has a unique enough move set, I don't see the problem.

I don't see where you're coming from. He is still a CF clone in Brawl. His moveset basically was copied and pasted onto Ganondorf. The weird part is that CF and Ganondorf don't have anything in common (Besides their build.)

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ganondorf's specials should come from his game. At least one of them.

B is usually an iconic move. Ganondorf has fans.

His iconic move is a ball of energy that could be volleyed back and forth.

Have the sphere increase size and power each time it is hit depending on the move that connects with it. This gives Ganondorf the ability to really make the proectile powerful. If the sphere moves slow enough, it could be hard to spot dodge. Plus it could help Ganondorf's approach.

So it doesn't matter if his move is a clone of somebody else as long as he does it in game? Because Ganondorf uses physical strength in the game.

His moveset basically was copied and pasted onto Ganondorf.

Again, this is not Melee. Go play Brawl because it is NOT copied and pasted. Ganondorf can grab people with his flame choke which is pretty much it's own move entirely. The only similarity between that and raptor boost is that it goes forward. The upward special also functions differently, it basically incorporates levitation and electricity.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Sounds like a watered down version of Shadow Ball or Din's Fire.

Have you played Ocarina, by any chance? If you haven't, I'll direct you this (relevant) video of the Ganondorf fight; skip to 2:00 for the start of the fight proper. Here, you can see how this trade-off energy attack works in motion, and thereby get a better sense of how it might translate to Smash.

Much as it was in Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf would charge up his energy ball and fire it, careening in the direction of the nearest enemy player. The ball can be hit by other characters and bounced back toward Ganondorf - and every time a character (Ganondorf or otherwise) successfully hits the ball, its speed and total damage increases until it reaches a peak. Ganondorf can be hit by his own energy ball, which means that this move can backfire on him if others manage to send it back. So the options are to either get hit, attack the sphere, or dodge out of the way.

Shadow Ball is simply a chargeable projectile that traverses linearly, hitting whoever is in the way. Din's Fire can be steered to burst explosively upon release. Ganondorf's energy balls would gain more potency the more it is bandied about by other players, in what would be a risk-reward scenario (and in what would look like energy ball tennis XP) .

In the video, you can also see Ganondorf performing a downward shockwave attack, as well as a super-energy barrage (which releases five energy balls at once). These could also be incorporated into a revamped Ganondorf.

I'm not saying that I advocate a moveset/character revamp for him, necessarily. But if he were to get new moves, it is evident that there exist interesting concepts in the source material of the character.

 

[Parmite]

So it doesn't matter if his move is a clone of somebody else as long as he does it in game? Because Ganondorf uses physical strength in the game.


Again, this is not Melee. Go play Brawl because it is NOT copied and pasted.

I can only think of very small differences. Like how when the side B puts the opponent on the ground, instead of in the air. Those kinds of changes aren't enough for me. I do prefer to play Ganondorf in Brawl, but I would still rather have him have a new moveset. And truthfully, I think Sakurai is going to do it. You can tell he is putting a ton of innovation in SSB4.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Have you played Ocarina, by any chance?

Yes I have! He generates an energy ball and shoots it towards you. Much like Mewtwo's Shadow ball.

If you haven't, I'll direct you this (relevant) video of the Ganondorf fight; skip to 2:00 for the start of the fight proper. Here, you can see how this trade-off energy attack works in motion, and thereby get a better sense of how it might translate to Smash.

That doesn't make any sense! Moves from the original game never translate into Smash functioning exactly as they do in game.

Much as it was in Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf would charge up his energy ball and fire it

Like this?

, careening in the direction of the nearest enemy player. The ball can be hit by other characters and bounced back toward Ganondorf - and every time a character (Ganondorf or otherwise) successfully hits the ball, its speed and total damage increases until it reaches a peak. Ganondorf can be hit by his own energy ball, which means that this move can backfire on him if others manage to send it back. So the options are to either get hit, attack the sphere, or dodge out of the way.

Yeah, that's going to end up being a terrible move given how easily it backfires.

Shadow Ball is simply a chargeable projectile that traverses linearly, hitting whoever is in the way. Din's Fire can be steered to burst explosively upon release. Ganondorf's energy balls would gain more potency the more it is bandied about by other players, in what would be a risk-reward scenario (and in what would look like energy ball tennis XP) .

Would it? Are you Sakurai enough to know that?

I'm not saying that I advocate a moveset/character revamp for him, necessarily. But if he were to get new moves, it is evident that there exist interesting concepts in the source material of the character.

Who said it didn't exist? I'm just saying it's not anymore unique. Just because something functions differently doesn't mean it's unique. Otherwise you'd be calling his current move set unique.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Are we talking about Ganondorf changes? Well, I don't want him to be a full-on clone of Falcon, but most of his moves are fine. I'd just want some of his smashes and his specials to change (primarily his specials).

We don't even have to give him a sword, just change his smashes into something that's not "Dark Captain Falcon" smashes and I'll be perfectly content with him (though I do have my own unique moveset for him). But just a few minor changes and he'll be fine.

 

[Parmite]

Are we talking about Ganondorf changes? Well, I don't want him to be a full-on clone of Falcon, but most of his moves are fine. I'd just want some of his smashes and his specials to change (primarily his specials).

We don't even have to give him a sword, just change his smashes into something that's not "Dark Captain Falcon" smashes and I'll be perfectly content with him (though I do have my own unique moveset for him). But just a few minor changes and he'll be fine.

I agree. You don't have to change his basic moves, just changing his specials and final smash would be fine.

 

[Starcutter]

Yeah, that's going to end up being a terrible move given how easily it backfires.

Ever heard of risk vs reward? it could be set up in a way that of Ganondorf was the third person to hit it, it could be near impossible to avoid. (or you could take the stupid way out and make it so it won't hit ganondorf. you said it yourself, "Moves from the original game never translate into Smash functioning exactly as they do in game."

Would it? Are you Sakurai enough to know that?

are you Sakurai enough to know it won't be? (answer, no. you aren't.)

Who said it didn't exist? I'm just saying it's not anymore unique. Just because something functions differently doesn't mean it's unique. Otherwise you'd be calling his current move set unique.

are you really saying a vollying projectile that gains power isn't unique? because that's something NEVER BEFORE SEEN in a smash game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

His Neutral B is nearly useless IMO.I think that move could be changed for something like the balls of doom you guys suggested. Unless he's given moves that paralyze the opponent for a while so I can at least hit with the Warlock Punch.

 

[JamesDNaux]

It's pretty delusional to compare the Dead Man's Volley to Din's Fire and Shadow Ball, none of the attacks function even remotely similar. If we can't have three characters who have three different attacks that all function differently only because said attacks are vaguely similar in appearance, then I guess we can't have Fox, Falco, and Wolf all firing bla-... yeah, I'm sure I got my point across well enough without the sarcasm. For someone who supposedly plays for the character and not a good moveset, you'd have to be a pretty piss-poor Ganondorf fan to not be insulted by his awful Smash incarnation that isn't anything like him. Besides "strength."

 

[Bowserlick]

Saturn is in one of his rages where logic leaks from his head like diarrhea from a Mexican Food-Inspired rectum. Still love the guy.

Deadman's Volley would add a fun mini-game which takes advantage of Ganondorf's extreme power and gives him an approach option.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also I know the unfortunate factor that Ganondorf won't be overhauled to be completely different.

But still, at least expect different attack animations because a character like Ganondorf is not going to go backwards.

 

[TumblrFamous]

If they're changing characters like Pit and Bowser, and making certain characters stronger like Samus, Link, and Diddy (who doesn't even need that many buffs), I expect something to be done with Ganondorf.

 

[Louie G.]

One thing.

The MOTHER series also dates back to the NES, and unlike the Kid Icarus franchise, which was ignored for many years until it's revival, the MOTHER series continued, with a SNES sequel, and an attempted N64 sequel which was eventually completed on GBA.

Fair point. I did mean that KI's POPULARITY dates back to the NES, while Mother has always been a series that has been lacking in the sales department.
It has gained a very loyal cult following, but Kid Icarus Uprising arguably has more recognition than any Mother game at this point.
It's really a shame that more people don't know about Mother.

 

[Starcutter]

I'm pretty sure they are further changing ganondorf somehow.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If they're changing characters like Pit and Bowser, and making certain characters stronger like Samus, Link, and Diddy (who doesn't even need that many buffs), I expect something to be done with Ganondorf.

I'm just saying, don't expect his entire moveset to be entirely different.

Movesets don't dramatically change between games, usually it's a gradual procedure as a way to better flesh out a character and give characters more viable attacks. For example, with Peach, she gains new moves with each game that puts more emphasis on her pretty pink princess demeanor, and in terms of effectiveness some of her attacks like her up tilt and up smash gained notable improvements.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I would like to think that with the fact that they are adding fewer newcomers, that they would work on balancing and changing veterans. Especially Ganondorf. He doesn't need the whole moveset changed. Just his specials. Give him something he actually does in game instead of imitating his favorite race car driver.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm just saying, don't expect his entire moveset to be entirely different.

Movesets don't dramatically change between games, usually it's a gradual procedure as a way to better flesh out a character and give characters more viable attacks. For example, with Peach, she gains new moves with each game that puts more emphasis on her pretty pink princess demeanor, and in terms of effectiveness some of her attacks like her up tilt and up smash gained notable improvements.

Oh I know. I'm not expecting a major complete overhaul, but I do expect new moves, like how Bowser got a new aerial and side smash, or how Pit got two new specials. I expect Ganondorf to get some noticeable changes, yet keep his moveset pretty intact.

 

[Starcutter]

I would like to think that with the fact that they are adding fewer newcomers, that they would work on balancing and changing veterans. Especially Ganondorf. He doesn't need the whole moveset changed. Just his specials. Give him something he actually does in game instead of imitating his favorite race car driver.

that made me chuckle.

yeah, if they had say, 13 newcomers (8 more) they would have plenty of time to work on veterans like ganondorf and mewtwo.

 

[SuperBrawler]

I'd rather he have more magic punches and maybe a projectile or two then having a weapon.

 

[Louie G.]

I have a hard time seeing Falcondorf again if perfectly fine vets like Bowser got revamps.
So it would be more disappointing than ever to see Ganondorf as a clone again.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I have a hard time seeing Falcondorf again if perfectly fine vets like Bowser got revamps.
So it would be more disappointing than ever to see Ganondorf as a clone again.

Bowser was perfectly fine?

 

[Starcutter]

I'd rather he have more magic punches and maybe a projectile or two then having a weapon.

yeah. I mean, didn't only beast ganon have a weapon? well, in OoT anyways.