Character Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

Can anyone name me every single support point Wolf has in his favor?

 

[False Sense]

Ice Climbers have actual technical issues keeping them out of the game.

Snake? Did we learn nothing from the past few days?

Has been on other consoles and barely on Nintendo ever since the N64 days.

Seriously sticks out like a sore thumb compared to everyone else in the game.

Though I don't think so.
Latest game in the franchise (hilariously both being V) is on PS4 but not Wii U.

The last game they had on Nintendo consoles was a 3DS port of an older game.

Both companies often called out on for by fans for various different reasons.

Awesome headbands.

People are getting desperate to keep Snake out.

To be fair, those excuses were always flimsy and lacked any substance, so Ryu's presence doesn't change much.

Personally, I'm not really expecting Snake simply because he's a Third Party character that was cut for unknown reasons. Of course, it goes without saying he has every reason to return, but if some higher authority doesn't want him in, then there might not be much that can be done.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

0.01%- Ridley

Um, sir, Ice Climbers should be right below Ridley because it was flat out said they can't happen.

True this doesn't mean you thought they should be 0%, but you have said they can't happen more than once. By the way, you still haven't given me the source on when he said that.

 

[Burruni]

Can anyone name me every single support point Wolf has in his favor?

+ Overwhelming support in Japan and US. Edit: ... Like
+ Was a Quasi-Clone, like and his specials are programmed in the game on another character.
+ Has full data from Brawl which can be worked from far easier than that of Melee, like .
+ Series is getting an up-played new installment, VERY likely to further push his relevancy and recency as the only Star Fox game that he and his team did not appear in is Adventures.

Those are the big 4.

Which sums largely up to: "Lucas got in so there's little reason Wolf wouldn't."

The bigger thing is to say "What points does he have against him?"

- He was cut.
- He isn't back yet.
- Star Fox is largely popular in the US more than Japan. (Didn't stop him in Brawl, and shows that the western audience definitely can have a pull)

 

[AncientTobacco]

Ice Climbers have actual technical issues keeping them out of the game.

Snake? Did we learn nothing from the past few days?

Has been on other consoles and barely on Nintendo ever since the N64 days.

Seriously sticks out like a sore thumb compared to everyone else in the game.

Though I don't think so.
Latest game in the franchise (hilariously both being V) is on PS4 but not Wii U.

The last game they had on Nintendo consoles was a 3DS port of an older game.

Both companies often called out on for by fans for various different reasons.

Awesome headbands.

People are getting desperate to keep Snake out.

So why wasn't he in the base game, then?

You lot kept saying none of that stuff mattered, yet here we are; Snake was cut.

 

[ToddCam]

Just to clarify, my nonsensical percentages do not reflect my desires.

Here's the order for preference of return:
1. Ice Climbers - 2x veterans, an entire franchise gone; makes me sad they're gone, and for lame reasons (slightly different rosters would be ok, Sakurai!!!)
2. Wolf - loads of fun; definitely my favorite of the space animals
3. Snake - though I found him difficult to play, he was pretty unique; again, another franchise gone
4. Squirtle - love me some Squirtle
5. Ivysaur - would prefer Bulbasaur, but a great, distinct play style
6. Pichu - if everybody comes back, great; it was cute
7. Young Link - seems kind of pointless; Toon Link is Young Link (I always trust Batman); I'd still buy him as DLC, though (eventually)

Edit: forgot Snake...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So why wasn't he in the base game, then?

You lot kept saying none of that stuff mattered, yet here we are; Snake was cut.

Why wasn't Roy in the base game? Lucas? Mewtwo? Wolf?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Capcom is someone who is already in, contractually, with Nintendo. A sub-agreement would be made for the addition of Ryu.

Snake is owned by Konami who is in a more questionable and debatable position for the contractual work needed. Especially, once again, when Snake got in due to a favor to Kojima and Kojima himself said that he'd love Snake in Smash 4, but he nor Konami were ever approached to make a deal for Snake.

So has anything of Snake or Icies conditions changed from when they were not included on the base roster for the benefit of their chances? I haven't seen evidence for either. Snake was just as popular then.

Snake was already in Brawl, contractually, with Nintendo. You're telling me they magically can't do the same thing again?

He got in as a favour yes, but Nintendo and Konami already sealed that deal once, it would be bad business to refuse on either end. Kojima or not, even Konami has expressed some sort of interest in Snake's return, and Sakurai clearly cares about veterans.

IC and Snake can't be compared because the Ice Climbers literally could not work within the game.

Personally, I'm not really expecting Snake simply because he's a Third Party character that was cut for unknown reasons. Of course, it goes without saying he has every reason to return, but if some higher authority doesn't want him in, then there might not be much that can be done.

You say cut as though Sakurai sat down and said "I just don't want Snake." He said he wouldn't just cut characters like that.

Nintendo was ok with it Konami was ok with it, why would that change? We know at least Konami is still ok with it.

And Ryu specifically shows that Nintendo doesn't care about "advertising" for the competition.

So why wasn't he in the base game, then?

You lot kept saying none of that stuff mattered, yet here we are; Snake was cut.

Not even going to.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Final Fantasy 7 remake confirmed; let's talk about Cloud.

He'll be in Playstation All-Stars 2.

 

[Burruni]

Why wasn't Roy in the base game? Lucas? Mewtwo? Wolf?

Mewtwo was planned early on as a DLC gift.

Roy, Lucas, and Wolf were all clones of lesser popularity than and ended up being lost due to time constraints, much like most of the Forbidden 7.

Snake was a unique character who, if planned at all, would have to have had a contract deal made with his company before they could even begin designing the character because he's third party.

Snake was already in Brawl, contractually, with Nintendo. You're telling me they magically can't do the same thing again?

He got in as a favour yes, but Nintendo and Konami already sealed that deal once, it would be bad business to refuse on either end. Kojima or not, even Konami has expressed some sort of interest in Snake's return, and Sakurai clearly cares about veterans.

IC and Snake can't be compared because the Ice Climbers literally could not work within the game.

You say cut as though Sakurai sat down and said "I just don't want Snake." He said he wouldn't just cut characters like that.

Nintendo was ok with it Konami was ok with it, why would that change? We know at least Konami is still ok with it.

And Ryu specifically shows that Nintendo doesn't care about "advertising" for the competition.

Not even going to.

Can't? No. Won't? Possibly. If they didn't for the main roster, why would the ballot change their minds? THAT is the point I am trying to make.

 

[ToddCam]

Snake was already in Brawl, contractually, with Nintendo. You're telling me they magically can't do the same thing again?

It could be done. But it wasn't.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Downloading the new update now.

I wonder how many Roys, Lucases and Ryus I'll be seeing on For Glory.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Why wasn't Roy in the base game? Lucas? Mewtwo? Wolf?

Not even going to.

So you're telling me Snake was cut due to limited resources and time constraints?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ya know...

People keep saying that Capcom got two characters.

But Mega Man and Ryu are owned by different companies.

Ryu is owned by Capcom USA.

Mega Man is owned by Capcom LTD.

Two different companies.

So you're telling me Snake was cut due to limited resources and time constraints?

That's an assumption.

In fact, if Gematsu is believed Lucas didn't even get that far.

 

[Burruni]

Ya know...

People keep saying that Capcom got two characters.

But Mega Man and Ryu are owned by different companies.

Ryu is owned by Capcom USA.

Mega Man is owned by Capcom LTD.

Two different companies.

.....

I don't get how Capcom works.

But they're like two wings of the same major company, then?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So you're telling me Snake was cut due to limited resources and time constraints?

Has that been confirmed to be the reason for their (temporary) absence? No.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

.....

I don't get how Capcom works.

But they're like two wings of the same major company, then?

Yes and no.

They technically are, but they're different enough that they require different copyright.

Characters: © Nintendo / HAL Laboratory, Inc. / Pokémon. / Creatures Inc. / GAME FREAK inc. / SHIGESATO ITOI / APE inc. / INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS / SEGA / CAPCOM CO., LTD. / BANDAI NAMCO Games Inc. / MONOLITHSOFT / CAPCOM U.S.A., INC.

 

[ToddCam]

It does seem that if Snake was going to be in SSB4, he would have had to have negotiations done early in development. They must not have reached a conclusion by the time resources were allocated. It is possible, however, that those negotiations continued beyond launch, and were successful, and Snake will be revealed as DLC at some point.

Unrelated, it's my 200th post! It's taken me 14 years! Hooray?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Mewtwo was planned early on as a DLC gift.

Roy, Lucas, and Wolf were all clones of lesser popularity than and ended up being lost due to time constraints, much like most of the Forbidden 7.

Snake was a unique character who, if planned at all, would have to have had a contract deal made with his company before they could even begin designing the character because he's third party.

Can't? No. Won't? Possibly. If they didn't for the main roster, why would the ballot change their minds? THAT is the point I am trying to make.

You can't just play the "Mewtwo is a special case" card and expect to get away with it. So what, you're saying Sakurai is only going to add veteran clones back? Young Link and Pichu confirmed guys. Snake would have been in because of the contract... again, Ryu. So what you're saying is, Mega Man only got in because Capcom said "Ryu has to be DLC"?

Yeah Nintendo had Mega Man, but they still had to make a new contract for Ryu, having the rights to use Mega Man doesn't give them free reign on all of Capcom's IPs. They did the same thing they would have to do with Snake. And don't give me that BS "well it was easier because they already had a deal with Capcom for Mega Man," because they already had a deal with Konami for Snake, who is the character in question here and was already in Smash in the first place, unlike Ryu.

Actually...

But Mega Man and Ryu are owned by different companies.
Ryu is owned by Capcom USA.
Mega Man is owned by Capcom LTD.

Two different companies.

Thanks for null and voiding that in a better way. It even says Capcom USA on the copyright list.

So you're telling me Snake was cut due to limited resources and time constraints?

So you're telling me the Ice Climbers were cut due to third party contract issues?

 

[AncientTobacco]

So you're telling me the Ice Climbers were cut due to third party contract issues?

What are you trying to play now?

Just state clearly why you think Snake wasn't in the base game, then.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Pretty sure Roy was never planned for the base game anyways.

 

[False Sense]

You say cut as though Sakurai sat down and said "I just don't want Snake." He said he wouldn't just cut characters like that.

That's not what I was saying. I don't believe Sakurai just decided to cut Snake. I don't know why Snake was cut. Nobody does, really.

Nintendo was ok with it Konami was ok with it, why would that change? We know at least Konami is still ok with it.

Again, I don't know why that would change. But what we do know is that Snake, for some reason, didn't make it onto the roster. Since we don't know what that reasoning was, it's hard to say whether or not anything would change for Snake after the game's release.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Pretty sure Roy was never planned for the base game anyways.

In case it wasn't clear, I was referring to the circumstances that initally led to them being cut from the series. So Brawl for Roy and Mewtwo.

 

[Wintropy]

If we're talkin' third-party, my vote still goes to Shantae.

Indie-go-go~! ;3

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Frig, now I really want the new content...but I don't have any E-Shop money, and I'm too lazy to get a job to buy E-Shop cards.

 

[Burruni]

Yes and no.

They technically are, but they're different enough that they require different copyright.

Characters: © Nintendo / HAL Laboratory, Inc. / Pokémon. / Creatures Inc. / GAME FREAK inc. / SHIGESATO ITOI / APE inc. / INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS / SEGA / CAPCOM CO., LTD. / BANDAI NAMCO Games Inc. / MONOLITHSOFT / CAPCOM U.S.A., INC.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

You can't just play the "Mewtwo is a special case" card and expect to get away with it. So what, you're saying Sakurai is only going to add veteran clones back? Young Link and Pichu confirmed guys. Snake would have been in because of the contract... again, Ryu. So what you're saying is, Mega Man only got in because Capcom said "Ryu has to be DLC"?

Yeah Nintendo had Mega Man, but they still had to make a new contract for Ryu, having the rights to use Mega Man doesn't give them free reign on all of Capcom's IPs. They did the same thing they would have to do with Snake. And don't give me that BS "well it was easier because they already had a deal with Capcom for Mega Man," because they already had a deal with Konami for Snake, who is the character in question here and was already in Smash in the first place, unlike Ryu.

Actually...

Thanks for null and voiding that in a better way. It even says Capcom USA on the copyright list.


So you're telling me the Ice Climbers were cut due to third party contract issues?

1) Mewtwo WAS a special case, but "Sakurai is only going to add veteran clones back," for veterans, maybe.

2) We don't know what relation Megaman's inclusion had to a theoretical push for Ryu to be included. But the fact is one Capcom character being added (from a separate branch of the company) would be less of a legal stretch than going a new company. YES, RYU NEEDED HIS OWN CONTRACT. BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AROUND IT. HE'S IN, SNAKE IS NOT. THAT'S ALL WE KNOW.

3) You ignore my big question: What about the situation now, in DLC, makes Snake any likelier to be asked for by Nintendo and built up as a 3rd Party character than it was for the main game in which Kojima & Konami were never asked for?

 

[ToddCam]

they already had a deal with Konami for Snake

Well, that's hardly reasonable to consider. The terms of that deal most likely expired years ago. Given that Capcom's deal must still be in effect for their adding Mega Man DLC costumes... and Capcom being two companies may be an issue, having a mutual parent company does allow for an open avenue. I work for a company that buys a lot of children's books. We order books from Scholastic Literacy Partnerships, but I have used them to get in contact with Scholastic Trade Books, a different company, at least in the same way these Capcom divisions seem to be.

 

[Pakky]

True this doesn't mean you thought they should be 0%, but you have said they can't happen more than once. By the way, you still haven't given me the source on when he said that.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...removal_of_ice_climbers_from_super_smash_bros
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/17/ice-climbers-were-cut-from-smash-bros-due-to-3ds-limitations

 

[AncientTobacco]

Also, for the people saying that Nintendo is totally okay with Snake:

“I worked hand-in-hand with [director] Mr. [Masahiro] Sakurai, who I also consider a friend. At the time Nintendo thought that Snake felt like a Sony character, and didn’t think he would fit into SSBB. However, I really wanted Snake in the game, and it was through Mr. Sakurai that we were able to reach a consensus and make that happen.” ~ Kojima

 

[N3ON]

I expect Wolf too, but I wouldn't count out the other veterans, they still have a good shot in getting in the game.

This is a bit of a contradiction from those times your back is up against the wall and you say how you know the other veterans are actually unlikely yet you like to support the underdog.

 

[mark welford]

Yes and no.

They technically are, but they're different enough that they require different copyright.

Characters: © Nintendo / HAL Laboratory, Inc. / Pokémon. / Creatures Inc. / GAME FREAK inc. / SHIGESATO ITOI / APE inc. / INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS / SEGA / CAPCOM CO., LTD. / BANDAI NAMCO Games Inc. / MONOLITHSOFT / CAPCOM U.S.A., INC.

My question is shouldn't Ubisoft be listed since there are Rayman trophies in the game? Rayman even though he is not playable is still a character.

 

[JamesDNaux]

What are you trying to play now?

Just state clearly why you think Snake wasn't in the base game, then.

People keep bundling the Ice Climbers and Snake together in the "not happening" category because of "issues."

No one knows why, but people try to act like they do.

2) We don't know what relation Megaman's inclusion had to a theoretical push for Ryu to be included. But the fact is one Capcom character being added (from a separate branch of the company) would be less of a legal stretch than going a new company. YES, RYU NEEDED HIS OWN CONTRACT. BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AROUND IT. HE'S IN, SNAKE IS NOT. THAT'S ALL WE KNOW.

3) You ignore my big question: What about the situation now, in DLC, makes Snake any likelier to be asked for by Nintendo and built up as a 3rd Party character than it was for the main game in which Kojima & Konami were never asked for?

Sigh.

Going to a new company. If by new you mean a company they've already dealt with for this exact thing, just like Capcom. The difference between Ryu and Snake being, you seem to think that Ryu got in because of Mega Man. Snake would because... Snake. Snake doesn't need his little "more Nintendo" buddy to get in, he already got in himself.

"He's in, Snake's not." Are you kidding me right now? You're literally saying "it can't happen because it hasn't yet."

Ignoring the question? No. As the bloke I'm about to quote so helpfully brought back into attention, Sakurai went out of his way to add Snake for his friend. Why didn't it happen again? Only Sakurai knows. But why wouldn't he do the same for the fans?

Also, for the people saying that Nintendo is totally okay with Snake:

“I worked hand-in-hand with [director] Mr. [Masahiro] Sakurai, who I also consider a friend. At the time Nintendo thought that Snake felt like a Sony character, and didn’t think he would fit into SSBB. However, I really wanted Snake in the game, and it was through Mr. Sakurai that we were able to reach a consensus and make that happen.” ~ Kojima

And yet it happened anyway.

I guess Ryu is Mr. Nintendo now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

(sees this post)

Unrelated, it's my 200th post! It's taken me 14 years! Hooray?

I've made more posts than him and I've been here for a shorter amount of time. I guess I have no life then. (shrugs.)

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...removal_of_ice_climbers_from_super_smash_bros
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/17/ice-climbers-were-cut-from-smash-bros-due-to-3ds-limitations

In this week's Famitsu, Smash Bros. director Masahiro Sakurai has addressed the absence of the Ice Climbers in his bi-weekly column, and how Popo and Nana unfortunately didn’t make the cut this time around due to technical reasons related to the 3DS.
"The icy duo were performing perfectly fine on the Wii U, but unfortunately due to required hardware power, the Smash team was unable to get them up and running within the 3DS confines of the game. According to Sakurai-san, a solution to this problem wasn’t a priority either due to there being no real reason to promote the Ice Climbers – as there are no planned announcements or instalments for this particular series any time soon."
This tells me why
"According to Sakurai, the team had the Ice Climbers running on the Wii U version of the game, but were unable to find the same success on the 3DS, due to the handheld's hardware limitations. Sakurai notes that the series' lack of popularity made the decision to cut them from the game easier."
And this says the same thing.
Neither say with Sakurai's exact words that they can't and won't be included.

 

[Burruni]

People keep bundling the Ice Climbers and Snake together in the "not happening" category because of "issues."

No one knows why, but people try to act like they do.

Sigh.

Going to a new company. If by new you mean a company they've already dealt with for this exact thing, just like Capcom. The difference between Ryu and Snake being, you seem to think that Ryu got in because of Mega Man. Snake would because... Snake. Snake doesn't need his little "more Nintendo" buddy to get in, he already got in himself.

"He's in, Snake's not." Are you kidding me right now? You're literally saying "it can't happen because it hasn't yet."

Ignoring the question? No. As the bloke I'm about to quote so helpfully brought back into attention, Sakurai went out of his way to add Snake for his friend. Why didn't it happen again? Only Sakurai knows. But why wouldn't he do the same for the fans?

And yet it happened anyway.

I guess Ryu is Mr. Nintendo now.

I'm not saying it cant. I don't believe there's a single time here that I have said "Snake can't happen," or anything to that extent.

I'm saying it is an issue that needs to be surmounted for Snake to get in and I do not see it happening.

"But why wouldn't he do the same for the fans?" That's a question nobody can answer but Sakurai. And equally valid "Why DIDN'T he do it for the fans?"

I didn't believe Snake was going to return for the main game roster, before we had DLC announced. I have seen nothing to suggest his case is more likely now that we are in the DLC stage of development and thus believe he still won't happen in this game.

Word. Choice. Can't =/= Won't.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Ignoring the question? No.

Well, yes you are.

You still haven't explained how the situation has changed in Snake's favor to suddenly make him a candidate, when clearly there was some kind of issue that prevented him from being in the base game.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Final Fantasy 7 remake confirmed; let's talk about Cloud.

Eeeeeeewwwwww Modern Final Fantasty. Just have Black Mage kill that emo swordsman with Firaga.

 

[ToddCam]

(sees this post)

I've made more posts than him and I've been here for a shorter amount of time. I guess I have no life then. (shrugs.)



In this week's Famitsu, Smash Bros. director Masahiro Sakurai has addressed the absence of the Ice Climbers in his bi-weekly column, and how Popo and Nana unfortunately didn’t make the cut this time around due to technical reasons related to the 3DS.
"The icy duo were performing perfectly fine on the Wii U, but unfortunately due to required hardware power, the Smash team was unable to get them up and running within the 3DS confines of the game. According to Sakurai-san, a solution to this problem wasn’t a priority either due to there being no real reason to promote the Ice Climbers – as there are no planned announcements or instalments for this particular series any time soon."
This tells me why
"According to Sakurai, the team had the Ice Climbers running on the Wii U version of the game, but were unable to find the same success on the 3DS, due to the handheld's hardware limitations. Sakurai notes that the series' lack of popularity made the decision to cut them from the game easier."
And this says the same thing.
Neither say with Sakurai's exact words that they can't and won't be included.

Huh. That actually gives me a little more hope for the Ice Climbers. A solution wasn't a priority... then! Maybe, given Sakurai's aims to make people happy and the added time, he could prioritize it now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

My question is shouldn't Ubisoft be listed since there are Rayman trophies in the game? Rayman even though he is not playable is still a character.

These particular copyrights are exclusively for playable characters.

In the credits, Ubisoft is mentioned I believe.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'm saying it is an issue that needs to be surmounted for Snake to get in and I do not see it happening.

"But why wouldn't he do the same for the fans?" That's a question nobody can answer but Sakurai. And equally valid "Why DIDN'T he do it for the fans?"

I didn't believe Snake was going to return for the main game roster, before we had DLC announced. I have seen nothing to suggest his case is more likely now that we are in the DLC stage of development and thus believe he still won't happen in this game..

And I'm saying that we don't know the reason, or if there even was a reason for Snake's "exclusion."

The arguments against Snake are growing thinner. Again, unless either Nintendo or Konami explicitly state that they cannot license Snake for use in the new game, there is absolutely no reason for him to stay out unless Sakurai hates Kojima now.

Well, yes you are.

You still haven't explained how the situation has changed in Snake's favor to suddenly make him a candidate, when clearly there was some kind of issue that prevented him from being in the base game.

Nothing has changed.


He was a candidate from the moment he got into Super Smash Bros. Brawl for the Wii.

 

[mark welford]

These particular copyrights are exclusively for playable characters.

In the credits, Ubisoft is mentioned I believe.

Just wanted some clarification thanks!