Character Discussion Thread

[ToddCam]

Snake is from Konami, a totally different company.

I meant both Mega Man and Ryu are Capcom. My point is Ryu is redundant for the issue of inter-company relations.

 

[BluePikmin11]

As long as the New 3DS exists, they are still a 50/50 situation really, it's likely that Sakuraihasn't heard of the New 3DS when SSB4 was in development and the potential possibility he might take advantage of its hardware to add them in like when Kid Icarus Uprising launched with the Circle Pad Pro and developed the controls after its release. (If I can recall)

 

[Andinus]

I was watching the mini sakurai direct again, and when they talk about amiibos they said they would release rob, MG&W, duck hunt.. and then comes Falco.. like why is he alone, and he will release later than all those others in September... its a long shot but could this be a hint that Wolf is on the way, to be released with him?

 

[Chandeelure]

New chance chart:

100%- Ryu, Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy
99%- Wolf
90%- (Not shown) RH character
75%- Chorus Kids
60%- Dixie Kong
50%- Ice Climbers, Inklings
25%- King K. Rool, Professor Layton, Rayman, Young Link, Cross
20%- Jibanyan, Snake, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Toon Zelda
15%- Impa, Pichu, Wonder Red, Krystal, Bandanna Dee, Isaac, Paper Mario, Tetra, Monita
10%- Daisy, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Ray MK, Quote, Geno, Phoenix Wright, Mach Rider
7.5%- Ninten, Lip, Sceptile, Shovel Knight, Shantae
5%- Henry Fleming
1%- Banjo & Kazooie and Simon Belmont
0.01%- Ridley

Based on the currently rated RTC characters.
I might have to raise the chances of the other veterans (Pichu, Ivysaur, Squirrel) soon.

So... I want to know the reasons behing the placement of the next characters, please:
-Chorus Kids
-Bayonetta
-K.Rool
-Layton
-Cross
-Bandana Dee
-Isaac
-Young Link

 

[ToddCam]

So... I want to know the reasons behing the placement of the next characters, please:
-Chorus Kids
-Bayonetta
-K.Rool
-Layton
-Cross
-Bandana Dee
-Isaac
-Young Link

Young Link is clearly personal bias.

 

[BluePikmin11]

You should look back to the RTC thread for the reasons I placed them there.
Just search "character name" chance and you'll find out why. I give my all when it comes to the RTC posts.

Young Link is clearly personal bias.

You should read Young Link's Chance Analysis here to see why I gave him a slightly higher rating:
http://smashboards.com/threads/rate...-and-discuss-e3.398604/page-130#post-19324695

 

[Pakky]

Sony conference
LAST GUARDIAN IS REAL! You can't ruin this momentum! My shirt is already gone.

Metal Monster Gear hunter thingy?- Okay

Hitman- pretty but meh really meh -stitches up shirt as businessman talks

SF5- BIRDIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No man Sky - I almost don't believe you, I want to, but I don't

Dream game- Oh... My this might be a game changer. Though **** will be everywhere, sigh

Fire Watch- lol I like it, I like it

Businessman stop talking about Destiny, no more destiny, D: the boss is that black thing from KH? Okay whatever, not my thing but okay.

Assassin's creed- Welp there goes the momentum, took the wind right out of my sails.

Chibi FF, okay, well, okay.

FF7 REMAKE!!!!- shirt tears off!

Devolver games- Very nice

Shumeme3? WHAT? OHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Batman- okay

Project morpheus- okay

businessman man talk: Tv? why ? Booooooooooooooo! You stink!

Shoot bangs... shirt goes back on.

Star wars in Disney Infinity, saw this coming three years ago

More Star Wars, cool

Uncharted 4 - It froze... Okay its back well it looks nice too bad I don't care.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Are we still under the impression that third parties have to be "close" to Nintendo?

Because that's a load of crock really.

With this to think about and the fact that fighting game characters are allowed, I now declare Kasumi from Dead or Alive as a shoo-in. We've got to have that inevitable female DLC fighter and Dead or Alive shouldn't be the only fighting game franchise to be left out of Smash. Dead or Alive Dimensions was even a 3DS exclusive to make things likely.

Spoiler

 

[ToddCam]

I read your points (all two of them). I also read the anti arguments, all but one of which is irrelevant, and that is the main reason if he comes back, it will be a miracle. Toon Link is already Young Link. Masks would be a great idea, but transformations are out. Otherwise he's just a younger Link with little to distinguish him from the other Links. Paper Mario, alternatively, has an abundance of different moves and a different aesthetic as well. If Sakurai had called Toon Link Young Link like he should have, no one would be asking for him at all.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkLWMYV8A These comments make me sad.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Read everything, there's issues you addressed that have been already addressed in my analysis. Everything about Young Link is pretty much there.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

New chance chart:

100%- Ryu, Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy
99%- Wolf
90%- (Not shown) RH character
75%- Chorus Kids
60%- Dixie Kong
50%- Ice Climbers, Inklings
25%- King K. Rool, Professor Layton, Rayman, Young Link, Cross
20%- Jibanyan, Snake, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Toon Zelda
15%- Impa, Pichu, Wonder Red, Krystal, Bandanna Dee, Isaac, Paper Mario, Tetra, Monita
10%- Daisy, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Ray MK, Quote, Geno, Phoenix Wright, Mach Rider
7.5%- Ninten, Lip, Sceptile, Shovel Knight, Shantae
5%- Henry Fleming
1%- Banjo & Kazooie and Simon Belmont
0.01%- Ridley

Based on the currently rated RTC characters.
I might have to raise the chances of the other veterans (Pichu, Ivysaur, Squirrel) soon.

0/10. Chorus kids are WAY TOO HIGH, and you put Bandana Dee, Krystal, Isaac and Paper Mario far too low. That and Layton, Rayman, Geno, and Phoenix Wright ought to be at the bottom with Ridley.

No wonder people stopped making these pointless tier lists

 

[BluePikmin11]

I like making them though, I try to be the fairest as possible with ratings in the Chance Chart and in RTC.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I like making them though, I try to be the fairest as possible with ratings in the Chance Chart and in RTC.

Well, at the very least you DID use Artsy Omni's artwork of Shantae from his latest video he posted today.

 

[Scamper52596]

Guys, don't challenge BluePikmin11's opinions. You won't get him to change them. The only thing you might be able to do is get Blue to add what he wants to his opinions.

 

[Burruni]

New chance chart:

100%- Ryu, Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy
99%- Wolf
90%- (Not shown) RH character
75%- Chorus Kids
60%- Dixie Kong
50%- Ice Climbers, Inklings
25%- King K. Rool, Professor Layton, Rayman, Young Link, Cross
20%- Jibanyan, Snake, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Toon Zelda
15%- Impa, Pichu, Wonder Red, Krystal, Bandanna Dee, Isaac, Paper Mario, Tetra, Monita
10%- Daisy, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Ray MK, Quote, Geno, Phoenix Wright, Mach Rider
7.5%- Ninten, Lip, Sceptile, Shovel Knight, Shantae
5%- Henry Fleming
1%- Banjo & Kazooie and Simon Belmont
0.01%- Ridley

Based on the currently rated RTC characters.
I might have to raise the chances of the other veterans (Pichu, Ivysaur, Squirrel) soon.

Blue.
There's just one thing I want your reasoning on, because a lot of it we've gone over before.
Why is Geno above Shantae?

 

[JamesDNaux]

That and Layton, Rayman, Geno, and Phoenix Wright ought to be at the bottom with Ridley.

Care to explain why you think one of the most likely (if not the most likely) third party candidates should be at the bottom?

 

[BluePikmin11]

He's slightly likelier because he has massive demand in the ballot right now, making it likely that Sakurai has considered him. Though he still has his obvious flaws with his inclusion with Square and Nintendo.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Care to explain why you think one of the most likely (if not the most likely) third party candidates should be at the bottom?

Third party to begin with + me having no expertise in Rayman = my opinion.

I'll admit, I am biased because I don't know Rayman, but that's just my opinion. I'm not saying can't make it in, I just don't think he will.

 

[JamesDNaux]

He's slightly likelier because he has massive demand in the ballot right now, making it likely that Sakurai has considered him. Though he still has his obvious flaws with his inclusion.

Flaws that you've made up? You could try actually saying what you think those are.

I am biased

my opinion

Hi Sakurai.

 

[Burruni]

He's slightly likelier because he has massive demand in the ballot right now, making it likely that Sakurai has considered him. Though he still has his obvious flaws with his inclusion with Square and Nintendo.

As opposed to Shantae's demand, recency when you argue that K Rool is irrelevant for not being in a game in 7 years, in the ballot and being Miss Nindie.
Alright. Gotcha. No further questions. I get your reasoning but don't agree.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I thought I already mentioned the flaws, he comes from a niche but critically acclaimed Mario game that Square probably won't agree with.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I thought I already mentioned the flaws, he comes from a niche but critically acclaimed Mario game that Square probably won't agree with.

Geno? I thought we were talking about Rayman.

This is why you should quote the person you're replying to instead of throwing out vague statements.

 

[ToddCam]

Read everything, there's issues you addressed that have been already addressed in my analysis. Everything about Young Link is pretty much there.

Where? You sidestepped the issue of Toon Link already being Young Link entirely. Unless it's in the moveset suggestions... which I did skip.

Even if Young Link were different enough, what makes his chances 25%? Higher than other veterans cut, especially? It all just seems to come down to personal bias.

 

[Burruni]

Where? You sidestepped the issue of Toon Link already being Young Link entirely. Unless it's in the moveset suggestions... which I did skip.

Even if Young Link were different enough, what makes his chances 25%? Higher than other veterans cut, especially? It all just seems to come down to personal bias.

Majora's Mask 3DS makes him super relevant, even though PushDustin's poll suggests that he's in the worst slumps for being actually requested.

Edit: Blue, I wasn't serious about the "relevancy" helping him.

Double Edit: to TL:DR the post beneath me.

"Muh Relevancy" because of MM3DS.

"But he's a clone, so he's easy to make!" Despite the fact that Sakurai stated Melee data is too old to properly use so fighters are built from the ground up with that itteration as a template.

That is what Yink has over the likes of Ivysaur or Squirtle. With Blue vision, of course.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Where? You sidestepped the issue of Toon Link already being Young Link entirely. Unless it's in the moveset suggestions... which I did skip.

Even if Young Link were different enough, what makes his chances 25%? Higher than other veterans cut, especially? It all just seems to come down to personal bias.

I'll copy and paste for you.

+He's a veteran. Sakurai has reiterated that "if that character is removed from the game, the people who live for that character in Smash Bros. are going to have their feelings hurt." With this in mind, with the time he has for DLC, there's a
good chance he'll bring almost every veteran back (I say "almost" because Ice Climbers and the 3DS limitations), and Young Link is one of those. This gives him a better chance than most characters for DLC.
___

+When it comes to relevance, Young Link is already through the gate with that with the 3DS title The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D. Just like Toon Zelda, even if Sakurai doesn't want to plan all the veterans for DLC pre-ballot, he likely has considered Young Link again with the highly anticipated remake. That is what also gives him a slight edge over some veterans (Pichu, Ivysaur, Squirtle) even if he's the least requested.
___

+Not only that, he would be an easy to make clone. Like Pichu, he also shares some similarities with Toon Link and Link and already has a moveset to take from and start from scratch.

Given with the recently released game and the free time he's been given with DLC, he could likely and easily take some inspiration from the game to use masks that act as temporary transform moves like Kirby's Stone attack, Pac-Man turning into his pizza shape form, and Sonic turning into his ball form, there are a load of examples of this. His non-special move attacks would likely remain the same, but with new moves to give him a new flavor that doesn't feel exactly like Toon Link's play style.

From, my moveset (which you can find below), The Side-B is basically the boomerang, only two small versions of them are thrown in the air. The Neutral-B remains the same. The only two moves that need adjusting would be his Down-B and Recovery. He's still the light-weighted somewhat powerful Young Link he's always been, only with a few new tools. It's not a drastic change to his playstyle really.
Neutral-B: Fire Arrow: The same as in Melee, with the same hitstun and able to inflict damage even after rhe arrow is show.

Side-B: Zora Boomerang: Link turns into Zora Link to throw two multi-hitting small fin boomerangs at the opponent, great for keeping out of range of the opponent, however he's unable to move and he has to wait for the boomerangs to come back in order to move again.

Down-B: Goron Roll: Similar to Sonic's Down-B, only much stronger and slower. It must be at full charge in order to Goron Link to damage opponents. If uncharged, Goron Link will just pass by the opponent where he's open to attack.
(Altenatively, he can just use the bombchus if Sakurai wishes to keep the special moves similar)

Up-B: Deku Flower Flight: Link turns into Deku Link to fly with his swirling flowers, has a glide effect and is able to shoot Deku Nuts straightforward in the air. The flowers also do multi-hitting damage too if an opponent tries to hit from above. If an opponent manages to hit him, he'll fall helplessly making him really open to attacks.
(Alternatively, he can just keep the same special move too)
___

Really that's the main points helping his inclusion really, the other benefits such as importance to the Zelda series and coming from two very critically acclaimed games is kinda unimportant really given that he is already an established character in Smash Bros. One of the slightly likelier candidates for DLC, I think people are severally undererestimating his chances here.
_________________

Young Link is redundant! We don't need a third link! Toon Link Takes His Playstyle!
This doesn't matter at all. People mention Paper Mario as a plausible candidate and don't mention that he's a third Mario, yet it matters for Young Link. There is some inconsistency within this. Really with Sakurai it doesn't matter if he's Link, the fact that Sakurai has aloud multiple versions of a character in a roster and the fact that he is a veteran that people miss dearly should show that being a third link is irrelevant to his chances.

This along with Roy getting a moveset change certainly justifies a 25% rating. It doesn't matter if Young Link is Toon Link really, he's still a veteran people want back regardless if he's Link, he's a link given a different identity in Smash.

 

[AncientTobacco]

The only other veteran I expect to come back at this point is Wolf.

Young Link and Pichu are at the bottom of the barrel.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I expect Wolf too, but I wouldn't count out the other veterans, they still have a good shot in getting in the game.

 

[Pakky]

Sony conference
LAST GUARDIAN IS REAL! You can't ruin this momentum! My shirt is already gone.

Metal Monster Gear hunter thingy?- Okay

Hitman- pretty but meh really meh -stitches up shirt as businessman talks

SF5- BIRDIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No man Sky - I almost don't believe you, I want to, but I don't

Dream game- Oh... My this might be a game changer. Though **** will be everywhere, sigh

Fire Watch- lol I like it, I like it

Businessman stop talking about Destiny, no more destiny, D: the boss is that black thing from KH? Okay whatever, not my thing but okay.

Assassin's creed- Welp there goes the momentum, took the wind right out of my sails.

Chibi FF, okay, well, okay.

FF7 REMAKE!!!!- shirt tears off!

Devolver games- Very nice

Shumeme3? WHAT? OHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Batman- okay

Project morpheus- okay

businessman man talk: Tv? why ? Booooooooooooooo! You stink!

Shoot bangs... shirt goes back on.

Star wars in Disney Infinity, saw this coming three years ago

More Star Wars, cool

Uncharted 4 - It froze... Okay its back well it looks nice too bad I don't care.

Well the conference was
pretty good.

The only other veteran I expect to come back at this point is Wolf.

Young Link and Pichu are at the bottom of the barrel.

Bottom? You mean under the floorboards that the barrel sits on.

 

[JamesDNaux]

[collapse=]

Listen to him, he's Batman.
[/collapse]
Snake still has a good shot, ballot or otherwise. There are no excuses.

 

[Pakky]

[collapse=]

Listen to him, he's Batman.
[/collapse]
Snake still has a good shot, ballot or otherwise. There are no excuses.

See, you get it, I thought I was crazy for a second.

 

[ToddCam]

So, you're saying the potential makes him more likely? Any character can be potentially different. In fact, Squirtle and Ivysaur already have distinct movesets, and don't suffer from the Toon vs. Young Link issue, yet you rate their chances lower. Again, it reeks of bias.

If I were to give my own completely nonsensical percentages for the vets, I would say:

Wolf, 75%
Ice Climbers (if solo or whatever), 20%
Squirtle, 15%
Ivysaur, 15%
Snake, 10%
Pichu, 5%
Young Link, 1%

 

[Burruni]

Just to kinda sum up my points for more Veterans as DLC.

Sakurai specifically cited and I believe 's returns due to their popularity.

It's known that is considered by most to be a lock for Pre-ballot DLC and & are pretty well requested but have their issues to surmount. But what about the 4 cut veterans?

Well, the most accurate data we kinda have access to is the work by PushDustin.

PushDustin's poll for Smash fans.

https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/smash-poll-smash-dlc-results/

Of 52, Pichu is at 33, Squirtle, Ivy, & Young Link aren't even placed.

https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/perception-of-smash-dlc-in-japan/

In Japan, where Veterans are praised the most for return, Ivy & Squirtle have middling support and Pichu once again actually above them. Young Link is a negligible entry, though "Link who uses Masks" has a bit of weight when combined for percentage, but still far beneath the others.


all have popularity, but I see only due to his matters being the least complicated and most similar to .

The other 4 don't have near the same boon for support, in descending order , , , . Based on our sample size.

 

[AncientTobacco]

I expect Wolf too, but I wouldn't count out the other veterans, they still have a good shot in getting in the game.

Hardly.

First of all, there's not going to be a ton of DLC characters. Sakurai: "Fighters take an incredible amount of work to develop, so I don’t think we’ll be able to produce that many." Now, keeping this in mind, and considering the fact there's still the entire ballot to deal with, there's no real reason to expect him to focus on bringing back a bunch not-so-popular characters. With Roy and Lucas, Sakurai even remarked on their fan support: "Of the many fighters from past versions, I hope fans are happy to have back these two that were particularly popular." Now, no matter what you think of the left-over veterans, the fact is that Wolf, Snake and Ice Climbers are only ones with real popularity. ICs could come back if they resolve the technical issues, Snake most likely won't due to problems with Konami. So that leaves Wolf.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So, you're saying the potential makes him more likely? Any character can be potentially different. In fact, Squirtle and Ivysaur already have distinct movesets, and don't suffer from the Toon vs. Young Link issue, yet you rate their chances lower. Again, it reeks of bias.

If I were to give my own completely nonsensical percentages for the vets, I would say:

Wolf, 75%
Ice Climbers (if solo or whatever), 20%
Squirtle, 15%
Ivysaur, 15%
Snake, 10%
Pichu, 5%
Young Link, 1%

No, it's mainly these points that gives him a good chance in the event Sakurai doesn't consider all veterans and only has a limited selection to choose from:
+He's a veteran.
+When it comes to relevance, Young Link is already through the gate with that with the 3DS title The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D.
+Not only that, he would be an easy to make clone.

The moveset is more of an aftermath if he's being planned.

Hardly.

First of all, there's not going to be a ton of DLC characters. Sakurai: "Fighters take an incredible amount of work to develop, so I don’t think we’ll be able to produce that many." Now, keeping this in mind, and considering the fact there's still the entire ballot to deal with, there's no real reason to expect him to focus on bringing back a bunch not-so-popular characters. With Roy and Lucas, Sakurai even remarked on their fan support: "Of the many fighters from past versions, I hope fans are happy to have back these two that were particularly popular." Now, no matter what you think of the left-over veterans, the fact is that Wolf, Snake and Ice Climbers are only ones with real popularity. ICs could come back if they resolve the technical issues, Snake most likely won't due to problems with Konami. So that leaves Wolf.

Again, not all are going to be based on the ballot.
And that quote is was just pointing out that those guys were just popular, out of all the veterans who were cut in the game. He didn't state that only popular veterans were going to be in the game only. And again, I'm not expecting them, I just see that the chances of all veterans coming back are good (not 99% likely) based on his past statements on veterans and cuts. We already have a number of characters who didn't get in because of the ballot.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Um, sir, Ice Climbers should be right below Ridley because it was flat out said they can't happen.

Give me the source.

[collapse=]

Listen to him, he's Batman.
[/collapse]
Snake still has a good shot, ballot or otherwise. There are no excuses.

I don't care who says it. Toon Link is not Young Link.

So, you're saying the potential makes him more likely? Any character can be potentially different. In fact, Squirtle and Ivysaur already have distinct movesets, and don't suffer from the Toon vs. Young Link issue, yet you rate their chances lower. Again, it reeks of bias.

If I were to give my own completely nonsensical percentages for the vets, I would say:

Wolf, 75%
Ice Climbers (if solo or whatever), 20%
Squirtle, 15%
Ivysaur, 15%
Snake, 10%
Pichu, 5%
Young Link, 1%

Wolf: OK
Ice Climbers: You firmly believe they can't happen, and yet you put them second on the list? (Though the're not exactly "high")
Otherwise, bring up everyones % chances, and I would agree.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Final Fantasy 7 remake confirmed; let's talk about Cloud.

 

[JamesDNaux]

& are pretty well requested but have their issues to surmount.

Ice Climbers have actual technical issues keeping them out of the game.

Snake? Did we learn nothing from the past few days?

Has been on other consoles and barely on Nintendo ever since the N64 days.

Seriously sticks out like a sore thumb compared to everyone else in the game.

Though I don't think so.
Latest game in the franchise (hilariously both being V) is on PS4 but not Wii U.

The last game they had on Nintendo consoles was a 3DS port of an older game.

Both companies often called out on for by fans for various different reasons.

Awesome headbands.

People are getting desperate to keep Snake out.

 

[ToddCam]

Ice Climbers: You firmly believe they can't happen, and yet you put them second on the list? (Though the're not exactly "high")
Otherwise, bring up everyones % chances, and I would agree.

I don't firmly believe they won't happen. I think Young Link is the only one I would say won't happen, and even then, I couldn't be absolutely sure. My numbers are nonsensical, as stated. I have nothing to base them on.

 

[Burruni]

Ice Climbers have actual technical issues keeping them out of the game.

Snake? Did we learn nothing from the past few days?

Has been on other consoles and barely on Nintendo ever since the N64 days.

Seriously sticks out like a sore thumb compared to everyone else in the game.

Though I don't think so.
Latest game in the franchise (hilariously both being V) is on PS4 but not Wii U.

The last game they had on Nintendo consoles was a 3DS port of an older game.

Both companies often called out on for by fans for various different reasons.

Awesome headbands.

People are getting desperate to keep Snake out.

Here's the difference.

Who those companies are.

Capcom is someone who is already in, contractually, with Nintendo. A sub-agreement would be made for the addition of Ryu.

Snake is owned by Konami who is in a more questionable and debatable position for the contractual work needed. Especially, once again, when Snake got in due to a favor to Kojima and Kojima himself said that he'd love Snake in Smash 4, but he nor Konami were ever approached to make a deal for Snake.

So has anything of Snake or Icies conditions changed from when they were not included on the base roster for the benefit of their chances? I haven't seen evidence for either. Snake was just as popular then.