Character Discussion Thread

[A Distant Demon]

I've been Wonder-ing. Why isn't Wonder Red an AT? His game bombed financially, but considering Robin was chosen before Awakening released and saved the series, if Awakening bombed, Robin would be in regardless.

Because then red couldnt be playable D:

 

[Calane]

The thing about all of these retro reps so far is that they made an impact in some way back in the day. Our token retro this time was Duck Hunt Duo, because that's an extremely iconic game and it basically kickstarted the shooter genre, and remains one of the best selling shooters of all time. THAT'S impact an popularity.

A few people getting hopeful and scraping the bottom of the barrel because they HAVE to anticipate someone, is not popularity. If people genuinely played Takamaru's games and want him on that basis, that's fine, but he's definitely one of those characters people latched on to for no particular reason, outside of Japan.

I wouldn't say people latched onto Takamaru for no reason. Or, at least I didn't. I just happened to like the character a lot when I discovered him. Something about the game, the music, and the story of the character just intrigued me. It's definitely a game I'd love to see brought back and reimagined. Since I've found out about Takamaru, he's been one of my favorite Nintendo characters. I just find him to be really cool. I understand he isn't as iconic as Duck Hunt and everything, but it's still reassuring to me that he was at least considered for SSB4 at one point, even if he'll never happen. I'll always like the character, and I'll support him again when the next Smash comes around (well, if I'm still around, that is).

If I'm not mistaken, Murasame Castle brought some new ideas to the action genre back then. Among other games at the time, it seemed rather unique. It may even be one of the grandfathers of the modern action hack-n-slash genre. It's also one of the hardest games I've ever played. I think it has enough history to be at least a little notable. More notable history than Ice Climbers have, anyway. That, and being the lost brother of the Zelda series is also pretty interesting. I personally think he's got a shot at the next Smash if he gets a new game eventually. Maybe even if he doesn't. There's a lot you can do with the character in my opinion.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Murasame Castle really is a franchise that should get a revival. I can't see why they wouldn't do this already. The samurai theme is quite a popular one. I bet a new Hack & Slash gerne could do really well. But it seems like Nintendo wants to keep their focus on one franchise per gerne... Which sucks balls. This is the same exact reason we'll keep seeing Mario over Donkey Kong for example.

 

[Johnknight1]

Overall the appeal of Takamaru has always been the want for a samurai character (which is absolutely fine). People have clamored for a true samurai character ever since we got Marth and Roy in Melee, and adding such a character would make a lot of sense.

Of course, that's the reason people should want Takamaru playable, not because of his games. Make no mistake about it: Murasame Castle is not anywhere near a good game. It's especially bad when compared to a game it shares its' engine with, the original Legend of Zelda, which is easily one of the best and most influential games ever.

If Murasame Castle as a series is to get a revival, it'll need much better gameplay than what we got in the past. It will require a total remake, like what Donkey Kong got in Donkey Kong Country, or what Kid Icarus got in Kid Icarus Uprising.

 

[ChikoLad]

I wouldn't say people latched onto Takamaru for no reason. Or, at least I didn't. I just happened to like the character a lot when I discovered him. Something about the game, the music, and the story of the character just intrigued me. It's definitely a game I'd love to see brought back and reimagined. Since I've found out about Takamaru, he's been one of my favorite Nintendo characters. I just find him to be really cool. I understand he isn't as iconic as Duck Hunt and everything, but it's still reassuring to me that he was at least considered for SSB4 at one point, even if he'll never happen. I'll always like the character, and I'll support him again when the next Smash comes around (well, if I'm still around, that is).

If I'm not mistaken, Murasame Castle brought some new ideas to the action genre back then. Among other games at the time, it seemed rather unique. It may even be one of the grandfathers of the modern action hack-n-slash genre. It's also one of the hardest games I've ever played. I think it has enough history to be at least a little notable. More notable history than Ice Climbers have, anyway. That, and being the lost brother of the Zelda series is also pretty interesting. I personally think he's got a shot at the next Smash if he gets a new game eventually. Maybe even if he doesn't. There's a lot you can do with the character in my opinion.

I'm not saying everyone latched onto Takamaru, he has genuine fans, like every character, but he's definitely one of those characters a lot of people latched onto without even playing his game, because they don't have anyone else they genuinely want. Aside from Captain Toad from Mario, and Zelda characters like Impa, there aren't a whole lot of characters left that Sakurai has already been clear on not adding, or aren't a "literally who?".

And I doubt Takamaru getting a new game would do well on the basis of him being a samurai, that is only really popular in Japan. There is a reason why Hyrule Warriors and Dynasty Warriors Gundam, sells better than Koei Tecmo's own Samurai Warriors, for example. And why Samurai Jack is one of the few Cartoon Network shows that got cancelled, despite being really well made. A lot of Japanese stuff, thematically, just isn't popular in the West. Ninja characters have always been much more popular than samurais. Hence, we have two playable ninjas in Smash already, and no samurais.

 

[Calane]

Overall the appeal of Takamaru has always been the want for a samurai character (which is absolutely fine). People have clamored for a true samurai character ever since we got Marth and Roy in Melee, and adding such a character would make a lot of sense.

Of course, that's the reason people should want Takamaru playable, not because of his games. Make no mistake about it: Murasame Castle is not anywhere near a good game. It's especially bad when compared to a game it shares its' engine with, the original Legend of Zelda, which is easily one of the best and most influential games ever.

If Murasame Castle as a series is to get a revival, it'll need much better gameplay than what we got in the past. It will require a total remake, like what Donkey Kong got in Donkey Kong Country, or what Kid Icarus got in Kid Icarus Uprising.

That's funny, because I actually enjoy Murasame Castle more than the original Zelda. In fact, I don't really even like the first Zelda that much, but I understand it was influential. Murasame Castle was much more fun for me, even if it was almost impossibly hard. I wouldn't say it's a bad game at all, it's just probably not your thing. The game demanded a lot from the player, and you had to basically be perfect if you wanted to beat it, but I kind of find that fun in it's own kind of way. Hard game? Yes. Bad game? I don't think so.

@sonicbrawler182 - I see what you're saying, but I still want Takamaru in smash someday. If he had a new game, I'm not sure how well it would do, but I know I'd pick it up. Samurai's might not be as popular as ninjas, but they're still darn cool in my book. I also don't feel that popularity alone should be the only thing that matters in Smash. It should be a balance of popularity and uniqueness. Bringing new things to the table. Takamaru being a Samurai is already unique amongst the characters we currently have. That, and he's got tons of weapons and abilities he could use. Not to mention he also knows ninjutsu, so he's more of a Samurai/Ninja hybrid, which is even more cool. His chances aren't super high, but I'll hang onto whatever chance he has.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Murasame Castle is so fun, but I gotta criticize the repetitive music.

 

[ChikoLad]

Murasame Castle may be fun (though it is archaic at this point), but even back in the day, it didn't do anything new. It didn't leave a mark on the industry. It was basically a Zelda game with just dungeons, and no real adventure aspect.

 

[Calane]

Murasame Castle is so fun, but I gotta criticize the repetitive music.

That's fair. The music does loop pretty fast. The music is catchy at least, I can say that. The Castle Theme is my personal favorite, and even though it's pretty repetitive, I still enjoy listening to it. The Nintendo Land remixes are awesome, though.

@sonicbrawler182 - But Ice Climber didn't do anything either, but still got in Smash. I don't think Kid Icarus did anything amazing either, but Pit's alive and kicking. I remember hearing somewhere that Murasame Castle could be considered one of the pioneers of what eventually became the modern hack-n-slash genre. Not sure if it invented it, but it certainly contributed. The game had to have did something of value to still be remembered today. Heck, Nintendo themselves still seem to have a soft spot for the game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm not saying everyone latched onto Takamaru, he has genuine fans, like every character, but he's definitely one of those characters a lot of people latched onto without even playing his game, because they don't have anyone else they genuinely want. Aside from Captain Toad from Mario, and Zelda characters like Impa, there aren't a whole lot of characters left that Sakurai has already been clear on not adding, or aren't a "literally who?".

Ehhh? Last time I heard, Captain Toad and Impa are pretty much #1 picks from their respective franchises. Sakurai never stated anything against them either.

 

[ChikoLad]

Ehhh? Last time I heard, Captain Toad and Impa are pretty much #1 picks from their respective franchises. Sakurai never stated anything against them either.

That was poor wording on my part, sorry.

What I meant to say was besides characters like Captain Toad and Impa, who are really well known and fan-favourite characters from iconic franchises, there aren't really any other first party Nintendo characters we can pick that aren't a "literally who?". So the "they're really popular and have genuinely huge fanbases" point, isn't really a point you can bring up when we go to characters that aren't from these big franchises anymore. We have all of Nintendo's big franchises with a playable rep, and even all of the smaller one off games like Duck Hunt, that didn't get a continued franchise but made a HUGE mark on the industry, are all here. Stuff like Murasame Castle and even Advance Wars, are really obscure and you won't hear people talking about them.

That's fair. The music does loop pretty fast. The music is catchy at least, I can say that. The Castle Theme is my personal favorite, and even though it's pretty repetitive, I still enjoy listening to it. The Nintendo Land remixes are awesome, though.

@sonicbrawler182 - But Ice Climber didn't do anything either, but still got in Smash. I don't think Kid Icarus did anything amazing either, but Pit's alive and kicking. I remember hearing somewhere that Murasame Castle could be considered one of the pioneers of what eventually became the modern hack-n-slash genre. Not sure if it invented it, but it certainly contributed. The game had to have did something of value to still be remembered today. Heck, Nintendo themselves still seem to have a soft spot for the game.

Ice Climbers may have been an exception based on the fact they had an extremely unique gameplay gimmick they could provide. And Sakurai personally had plans to revive Kid Icarus and make it something worth talking about, and he did. But we are kind of at this stage where if we are gonna look at new characters that aren't from a popular franchise, that Sakurai would have to consider what they could bring gameplay wise more than ever. You may like Takamaru, but at the end of the day, he isn't noteworthy AT ALL outside of Japan, and he has nothing unique to bring to the table - he's got a sword and he throws projectiles. That's more or less his shtick, and that isn't new. Sakurai already gave specific mention to how they are too many sword wielders, it's getting difficult to find any that have anything unique about them (like Shulk and Robin, who are sword wielders but have something else unique that's defining them).

I'm not against Takamaru or anything, but he isn't some popular character everyone recognises and loves, and he doesn't have anything particularly unique or interesting about him universally speaking.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ice Climbers never had a duo mechanic in the original game. That was likely a concept made after IC were chosen for the NES representative.

I agree with no universal appeal, but there are unique characteristics about Takamaru being a samurai coming from old Japanese culture that would make for a unique character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Seems to me that Sakurai finally realised in Smash 4's development cycle that he picked Ice Climbers out for the most random of reasons. I swear, he should've just choose since Melee.

 

[FalKoopa]

Takamaru has the Retro card, plus Sakurai obviously likes him. He doesn't really need popularity, I'd say. And it's not like he's unpopular.

 

[ChikoLad]

Ice Climbers never had a duo mechanic in the original game. That was likely a concept made after IC were chosen for the NES representative.

I agree with no universal appeal, but there are unique characteristics about Takamaru being a samurai coming from old Japanese culture that would make for a unique character.

But are those unique characteristics appealing to the average consumer? In Japan, maybe, but even that's debatable, as Japanese culture is changing (even within the gaming industry). Outside of Japan, certainly not. Even something as broad as anime, is not mainstream or popular in the West yet - so ancient Japanese historical , aesthetic influences, definitely would not get many excited.

Ice Climbers may not have had a duo mechanic, but the game had a two-player mode. They just took that idea and meshed it into a single character.

 

[Calane]

Ice Climbers may have been an exception based on the fact they had an extremely unique gameplay gimmick they could provide. And Sakurai personally had plans to revive Kid Icarus and make it something worth talking about, and he did. But we are kind of at this stage where if we are gonna look at new characters that aren't from a popular franchise, that Sakurai would have to consider what they could bring gameplay wise more than ever. You may like Takamaru, but at the end of the day, he isn't noteworthy AT ALL outside of Japan, and he has nothing unique to bring to the table - he's got a sword and he throws projectiles. That's more or less his shtick, and that isn't new. Sakurai already gave specific mention to how they are too many sword wielders, it's getting difficult to find any that have anything unique about them (like Shulk and Robin, who are sword wielders but have something else unique that's defining them).

I'm not against Takamaru or anything, but he isn't some popular character everyone recognises and loves, and he doesn't have anything particularly unique or interesting about him universally speaking.

I disagree on the not being unique part, but I acknowledge he's not very popular or a big name in gaming. I'm just saying I don't think that's all that matters. Takamaru still has a chance in a future Smash, just not a big one. As for the uniqueness comment, In his game, Takamaru only uses his katana when he's close to an enemy, otherwise he'll use his projectiles (of which he has many options), this already is something no other swordsman does. Heck, they could even have him fight in Iaido style, fitting for a Samurai. This would make him even more unique amongst the swordsmen. I won't continue this conversation, as I know I'm just some crazy guy who wants a character that will never happen. I understand that, but I can't help but support Takamaru.

And hey, there's nothing that outright says we'll never have another "exception" like Ice Climbers. I'll keep my hope until I no longer play Smash. Nice talking with you, by the way.

 

[Coricus]

Seems to me that Sakurai finally realised in Smash 4's development cycle that he picked Ice Climbers out for the most random of reasons. I swear, he should've just choose since Melee.

I think he just had too hard of a time implementing them in 8 player Smash/ on the 3DS and they were never planned to be cut.

Sakurai doesn't remove characters simply because they're niche and crazy, no matter how much the fan base wants him to.

 

[ChikoLad]

As for the uniqueness comment, In his game, Takamaru only uses his katana when he's close to an enemy, otherwise he'll use his projectiles (of which he has many options), this already is something no other swordsman does.

 

[Calane]

...What? They don't do this. If you press the "A" button away from an enemy, Link still swings his sword. Their attacks don't change depending on how close or far away you are from an opponent. You should pay more attention before trying to act all smart.

 

[ChikoLad]

...What? They don't do this. If you press the "A" button away from an enemy, Link still swings his sword. Their attacks don't change depending on how close or far away you are from an opponent. You should pay more attention before trying to act all smart.

But you have the option to both fight with projectiles and fight up close in a Zelda game, and often times, you have to do one or the other on certain enemy types. This translated into Link's Smash moveset - you have a swordfighter who is also a projectile fighter.

Then in Uprising, it's EXACTLY like in Murasame Castle - melee attacks and shooting are both mapped to the L button, and you do one or the other depending on how close you are to the enemy.

Unless you're trying to suggest that Takamaru should function like that in Smash itself, in which case, that would be flat out bad game design - in a game as hectic as Smash, you can't map too many commands to the exact same inputs based on circumstances. And I can't see it working - what happens when he's in an FFA, or doubles with friendly fire off? What if I wanted to used the "ranged version" of his F-air on a far away opponent, only to end up using the "melee version" of it because someone was nearby, but also not near enough to actually hit (or if it was a teammate, I wouldn't want to hit them at all)?

 

[---]

Mii Swordfighter having shuriken and reflection custom moves are the only things gameplay wise I can see as a threat. Beyond that, arguing movesets and uniqueness has and will continue to be a moot point given , among other arguments like MYOM and clones.


As far as I'm concerned, his only problem is exposure, which as of late has only continued to get better, with the big one being localization. Of course, the argument for him hasn't changed since pre-Smash 4, so I wouldn't make any major claims/expectations, but at the least he exists, which is impressive in and of itself.

 

[Calane]

But you have the option to both fight with projectiles and fight up close in a Zelda game, and often times, you have to do one or the other on certain enemy types. This translated into Link's Smash moveset - you have a swordfighter who is also a projectile fighter.

Then in Uprising, it's EXACTLY like in Murasame Castle - melee attacks and shooting are both mapped to the L button, and you do one or the other depending on how close you are to the enemy.

Unless you're trying to suggest that Takamaru should function like that in Smash itself, in which case, that would be flat out bad game design - in a game as hectic as Smash, you can't map too many commands to the exact same inputs based on circumstances. And I can't see it working - what happens when he's in an FFA, or doubles with friendly fire off? What if I wanted to used the "ranged version" of his F-air on a far away opponent, only to end up using the "melee version" of it because someone was nearby, but also not near enough to actually hit (or if it was a teammate, I wouldn't want to hit them at all)?

I'm simply pointing out that this is a mechanic in Murasame Castle that could be implemented to make Takamaru stand out more (and besides, he already does this as an Assist Trophy). I'm pretty sure Sakurai could find a way to make it work if they went in this direction. If they did do this, you'd just have to fight carefully and be fully aware of your placement. Be mindful of where you are, and you'll be fine. Also, I don't think this would apply to air moves, only ground attacks. And only for his "A" button attacks. Couple this with a Iaido fighting style, and Takamaru would be very unique. A player would have to be much more mindful of their placement, but if they master it, he'd be an amazing character.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that in Murasame Castle, Takamaru also has the ability to deflect projectiles by slicing at them. This could also be in Smash. If you time it just right, you should be able to deflect projectiles that get close to you, but only if it's right in front of you. This would be a tricky but devastating attack if pulled off correctly.

But this is all just my opinion. None of this is going to happen anyway, so I don't see why I'm even talking about it. I'd be super happy if Takamaru makes it into Smash someday, but as of right now, all I have is my imagination.

 

[Burruni]

Mii Swordfighter having shuriken and reflection custom moves are the only things gameplay wise I can see as a threat. Beyond that, arguing movesets and uniqueness has and will continue to be a moot point given , among other arguments like MYOM and clones.


As far as I'm concerned, his only problem is exposure, which as of late has only continued to get better, with the big one being localization. Of course, the argument for him hasn't changed since pre-Smash 4, so I wouldn't make any major claims/expectations, but at the least he exists, which is impressive in and of itself.

I'd argue that him being in Smash 4 as an AT would be plenty of exposure in and of itself for him to be "known" for Smash 5.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Takamaru gets into a Smash game, I'd expect him to have a moveset and gameplay similar to the Silver Samurai in MvC2

 

[mark welford]

Mii Swordfighter having shuriken and reflection custom moves are the only things gameplay wise I can see as a threat. Beyond that, arguing movesets and uniqueness has and will continue to be a moot point given , among other arguments like MYOM and clones.


As far as I'm concerned, his only problem is exposure, which as of late has only continued to get better, with the big one being localization. Of course, the argument for him hasn't changed since pre-Smash 4, so I wouldn't make any major claims/expectations, but at the least he exists, which is impressive in and of itself.

He could go the way of Little Mac if there is a next episode of Smash Assist Trophy at first which would give him some exposure then he could be promoted to a fully playable character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Takamaru... He'd be ok I guess. I don't know much about him. I don't know about automatically switching weapons bassed on distance though. It seems like it would be hard to implement, and stages like Arena Ferox and Duck Hunt would kill his gameplay because he would randomly switch to a sword to hit the statues or ducks when you are trying to attack using projectiles.

He could go the way of Little Mac if there is a next episode of Smash Assist Trophy at first which would give him some exposure then he could be promoted to a fully playable character.

I'm imagining Sakuri showing us pictures of past assist trophies, and saying "One of these characters is not an assist trophy, which one is it?"

 

[ChikoLad]

Mii Swordfighter having shuriken and reflection custom moves are the only things gameplay wise I can see as a threat. Beyond that, arguing movesets and uniqueness has and will continue to be a moot point given , among other arguments like MYOM and clones.


As far as I'm concerned, his only problem is exposure, which as of late has only continued to get better, with the big one being localization. Of course, the argument for him hasn't changed since pre-Smash 4, so I wouldn't make any major claims/expectations, but at the least he exists, which is impressive in and of itself.

Fox's moves are quite clearly based on Arwing functions. Him being competent at martial arts is also a part of his character based on the fact he is a trained mercenary, it's an integral part of his back story.

Captain Falcon is pretty much the exact same deal, just replace Arwing functions and mercenary with Blue Falcon functions and bounty hunter background.

Zelda is a magic caster with ties to the goddesses, so her Smash moveset references that.

Sheik is a ninja who does ninja things, some of which was actually shown in Ocarina of Time.

Ice Climbers had their moveset based on the premise of the two player mode in their game.

Ganondorf is a big bulky demon warlock, so he uses physical attacks enhanced by demon magic.

Samus' backstory includes her being trained to be athletic to a super human degree, not hard for a Smash moveset to be based off that. Unless you mean the jet boots, but she's a futuristic bounty hunter, so that fits her character. She has tons of gadgets.

Wario was shown to be a fist-fighting brute with unorthodox physical attacks and surprising agility in Super Mario 64 DS, Wario: Master of Disguise, and Wario World, so his moveset revolves around that. The bike obviously comes from WarioWare, and the farting comes from the fact he eats garlic a lot.

R.O.B has a moveset based on the games the actual toy was used to play, and an exaggeration of the actual functions of the toy (flashing eyes and moving arms).

Don't know why you even mentioned Snake, as his sources for his moves are incredibly obvious to anyone who's played even a bit of MGS. He uses iconic weapons from the MGS franchise that he's known to use (C4's, Mines, Stinger Missiles, etc), and he uses CQC, something that he has due to being a trained mercenary and is an actual game mechanic in MGS.

Villager's moveset is based on the concept that the Villagers like to collect things in Animal Crossing, so he uses the various items a Villager can collect. His moveset also clearly implies that he's not even really "fighting", he's just a guy going about his day and having fun. His fighting is basically accidental, such as tripping and dropping a potted cactus, letting off fireworks that don't quite work right, dropping a bowling ball that's too heavy for him, etc.

WFT's moveset is based off of mini-games from Wii Fit, and the actual Yoga exercises she would teach you in the game.

Rosalina is a cosmic deity shown to have a multitude of abilities and pretty much limitless potential. In Galaxy alone, she could teleport, fly, control gravity, and turn gigantic, for example, and all of these but the final one are incorporated into her moveset in Smash. Her being able to form cosmic bangs and galaxies from her body parts really isn't too hard to believe considering the character's role and background. Star Bits and Launch Stars have a strong association with her and Luma, and her Gravitational Pull move even references the cursor from Galaxy. And while shielding is a generic mechanic for all characters, the way Rosalina casts her shield in Smash looks similar to how she does in other games. Luma's presence obviously references the integral bond Rosalina has with the Lumas, and how she protects them as much as they try to help her (a mindset actual players of the characters in Smash need to adapt in order to succeed with her). But, he also references the Co-Star Luma feature from Galaxy 2. Luma even has the spin attack as his infinite jab, which was something the Co-Star Luma could do in Galaxy 2, and much like how Luma works in Smash, the Co-Star Luma could either stay "tethered" to Mario and protect him that way, or break off from him and do his own thing, and clear the way ahead and distract enemies.

Little Mac is a boxer. He does boxing moves. Some of which he actually does in Punch-Out. Then stuff like the KO Punch, Slip Counter, and Giga Mac are specifically signature moves of his.

Bowser Jr used the clown car in the NSMB games and a variation of it in the Galaxy games. His entire moveset references clown car functions from these games.

Duck Hunt Duo I admit stretches things a bit, but his moveset largely references Duck Hunt's "sister" games. And I guess the dog has some of the characteristics of a hunting dog, which is what he was in Duck Hunt.

Pac-Man has a mix of iconic moves from his games and other iconic Namco games.

As I said before, all of the characters on the roster have very strong moveset references and ties to their original games, even if they may not always be as obvious as "Kirby inhales enemies and copies their abilities or shoots them out, so he does that in Smash too". Sometimes moves in Smash are derived from a character trait rather than an actual move they did. They FEEL like they are that character, they didn't pull things out of complete nowhere, everything had a basis that added to their uniqueness and final moveset in Smash.

I didn't mention Ness because I don't know enough about him. And I feel the reason misconceptions exist about these other characters having "moves come out of nowhere" is because other people assume they know enough about a character when they really don't.

 

[Troykv]

Fox's moves are quite clearly based on Arwing functions. Him being competent at martial arts is also a part of his character based on the fact he is a trained mercenary, it's an integral part of his back story.

Captain Falcon is pretty much the exact same deal, just replace Arwing functions and mercenary with Blue Falcon functions and bounty hunter background.

Zelda is a magic caster with ties to the goddesses, so her Smash moveset references that.

Sheik is a ninja who does ninja things, some of which was actually shown in Ocarina of Time.

Ice Climbers had their moveset based on the premise of the two player mode in their game.

Ganondorf is a big bulky demon warlock, so he uses physical attacks enhanced by demon magic.

Samus' backstory includes her being trained to be athletic to a super human degree, not hard for a Smash moveset to be based off that. Unless you mean the jet boots, but she's a futuristic bounty hunter, so that fits her character. She has tons of gadgets.

Wario was shown to be a fist-fighting brute with unorthodox physical attacks and surprising agility in Super Mario 64 DS, Wario: Master of Disguise, and Wario World, so his moveset revolves around that. The bike obviously comes from WarioWare, and the farting comes from the fact he eats garlic a lot.

R.O.B has a moveset based on the games the actual toy was used to play, and an exaggeration of the actual functions of the toy (flashing eyes and moving arms).

Don't know why you even mentioned Snake, as his sources for his moves are incredibly obvious to anyone who's played even a bit of MGS. He uses iconic weapons from the MGS franchise that he's known to use (C4's, Mines, Stinger Missiles, etc), and he uses CQC, something that he has due to being a trained mercenary and is an actual game mechanic in MGS.

Villager's moveset is based on the concept that the Villagers like to collect things in Animal Crossing, so he uses the various items a Villager can collect. His moveset also clearly implies that he's not even really "fighting", he's just a guy going about his day and having fun. His fighting is basically accidental, such as tripping and dropping a potted cactus, letting off fireworks that don't quite work right, dropping a bowling ball that's too heavy for him, etc.

WFT's moveset is based off of mini-games from Wii Fit, and the actual Yoga exercises she would teach you in the game.

Rosalina is a cosmic deity shown to have a multitude of abilities and pretty much limitless potential. In Galaxy alone, she could teleport, fly, control gravity, and turn gigantic, for example, and all of these but the final one are incorporated into her moveset in Smash. Her being able to form cosmic bangs and galaxies from her body parts really isn't too hard to believe considering the character's role and background. Star Bits and Launch Stars have a strong association with her and Luma, and her Gravitational Pull move even references the cursor from Galaxy. And while shielding is a generic mechanic for all characters, the way Rosalina casts her shield in Smash looks similar to how she does in other games. Luma's presence obviously references the integral bond Rosalina has with the Lumas, and how she protects them as much as they try to help her (a mindset actual players of the characters in Smash need to adapt in order to succeed with her). But, he also references the Co-Star Luma feature from Galaxy 2. Luma even has the spin attack as his infinite jab, which was something the Co-Star Luma could do in Galaxy 2, and much like how Luma works in Smash, the Co-Star Luma could either stay "tethered" to Mario and protect him that way, or break off from him and do his own thing, and clear the way ahead and distract enemies.

Little Mac is a boxer. He does boxing moves. Some of which he actually does in Punch-Out. Then stuff like the KO Punch, Slip Counter, and Giga Mac are specifically signature moves of his.

Bowser Jr used the clown car in the NSMB games and a variation of it in the Galaxy games. His entire moveset references clown car functions from these games.

Duck Hunt Duo I admit stretches things a bit, but his moveset largely references Duck Hunt's "sister" games. And I guess the dog has some of the characteristics of a hunting dog, which is what he was in Duck Hunt.

Pac-Man has a mix of iconic moves from his games and other iconic Namco games.

As I said before, all of the characters on the roster have very strong moveset references and ties to their original games, even if they may not always be as obvious as "Kirby inhales enemies and copies their abilities or shoots them out, so he does that in Smash too". Sometimes moves in Smash are derived from a character trait rather than an actual move they did. They FEEL like they are that character, they didn't pull things out of complete nowhere, everything had a basis that added to their uniqueness and final moveset in Smash.

I didn't mention Ness because I don't know enough about him. And I feel the reason misconceptions exist about these other characters having "moves come out of nowhere" is because other people assume they know enough about a character when they really don't.

Ness has mainly his own moves (Baseball Bat, Yo-Yo, PK Flash), but also has Paola's (PK Thunder, PK Fire, PK Magnet), and Poo's moves (Paola's PKs and PK Starstorm).

 

[Sirfishe]

Meaning K.Rool, Ridley, Inkling and Krystal are pretty considerable, given how popular all of them are (Ridley is pretty well-known for how obscure Metroid tends to be in Japan). So if we go by highest popularity, the DLC roster would be Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu and probably Wolf pre-ballot and King K.Rool, Ridley, Inkling and Krystal as Ballot fighters (assuming there's more than one "winner" of the Ballot).

I really don't believe ridley is going to be playable. Honeslty i like where he is right now. Its the most acceptable place sakurai can put him. I still think the inklings are still deconfirmed just because the mii's have costumes. Yea other costumes have costumes based on playable characters but I don't think inkling would be coming to smash 4. I would have king k rool all the way. I think either wolf or krystal is fine. Its kinda of insulting that we only have two star fox reps.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Takamaru, eh?

Now Duck Hunt's in which was the only retro I wanted I guess I could be fine with him...I'd still prefer this guy for a Samurai moveset though:

*heavy sigh*

 

[ChikoLad]

Takamaru, eh?

Now Duck Hunt's in which was the only retro I wanted I guess I could be fine with him...I'd still prefer this guy for a Samurai moveset though:

*heavy sigh*

Honestly, me too, even if he's likely not gonna happen this game either. Takamaru is just way too stereotypical a samurai for my tastes. Goroh at least feels like a parody who's having fun with the idea.

He's also a badass in the F-Zero anime.

 

[Deleted member]

Why can't we have both?

It's not like Takamaru and Goroh would be at all similar simply because they both have the samurai motif.


EDIT:
One has a more quick and precise fighting style with the sword and a set of long range tools.

The other is more of a wild and reckless hack-n'-slash fighter that relies on two things; his sword and his sheer brute strength.


Or to just make things simpler to explain: Takamaru is a "ninja-samurai", Goroh is a "sumo-samurai".

 

[BluePikmin11]

An Ice Climber probably wouldn't attract the major consumer either, as long it's diverse enough, I think it's ok in Sakurai's book.

 

[ChikoLad]

Why can't we have both?

It's not like Takamaru and Goroh would be at all similar simply because they both have the samurai motif.

...They kinda would, because they are both defined by the fact they are samurais. It's really one or the other, unless you want more clones.

 

[Burruni]

...They kinda would, because they are both defined by the fact they are samurais. It's really one or the other, unless you want more clones.

& are both Ninjas.
How much are they clones?

& both fire breathing lizards.

& both high-speed rodents.

 

[---]

As I said before, all of the characters on the roster have very strong moveset references and ties to their original games, even if they may not always be as obvious as "Kirby inhales enemies and copies their abilities or shoots them out, so he does that in Smash too". Sometimes moves in Smash are derived from a character trait rather than an actual move they did. They FEEL like they are that character, they didn't pull things out of complete nowhere, everything had a basis that added to their uniqueness and final moveset in Smash.

Not sure what you're arguing now.

My basic point is that trying to predict movesets and determine uniqueness or use them as a argument is pointless. Ex. Fox/Falcon were pretty much made up, Ness borrows attacks he doesn't normally use, people bet on Wario Land and Pac Man World to be the main reps for their movesets. Mac/Pac were both declared boring as **** as well.

Granted Chrom didn't end up making it in for the general predicted reasons, but arguably, from his fans perspective, Sakurai could have come up with new sword techniques or given him a lance to use for certain attacks, maybe even implement FE's Weapon Change system to change up his default moveset's range/power. Dual Attack was also seen as a given Final Smash.

Beyond that I agree. With Takamaru I'd imagine they'd focus on graceful swordplay like Marth, have a similar speed to default Shulk, given him access to his throwing knives/shurikens/fireballs depending on customs, turn invisible for a D-Special, and summon lightning strikes for a Final Smash. Would love to seem them implement an ammo or a power up system so he can throw projectiles in multiple directions or increase his mobility.

Why can't we have both?

It's not like Takamaru and Goroh would be at all similar simply because they both have the samurai motif.

It's funny, but neither of them are very samurai-like. XD

...They kinda would, because they are both defined by the fact they are samurais. It's really one or the other, unless you want more clones.

I'm having Chronobound flashbacks. lol

 

[Schnee117]

...They kinda would, because they are both defined by the fact they are samurais. It's really one or the other, unless you want more clones.

Takamaru however isn't from a series full of intergalactic bounty hunters and extremely fast racing vehicles like Goroh is which immediately opens up some completely new moves to be made for Goroh instead of wildly slashing his Samurai sword around.

Takamaru alone has invisibility, Inazuma lightning, fireballs and the windmill sword. We haven't seen much from Goroh.

 

[ChikoLad]

& are both Ninjas.
How much are they clones?

& both fire breathing lizards.

& both high-speed rodents.

Except all of those characters are not DEFINED by those characteristics entirely, they have a ton of other stuff going for them.

When with the Smash roster speculators stop over-simplifying things and grasping at straws like this?

When pink elephants with blue spots fly, I guess...

Not sure what you're arguing now.

My basic point is that trying to predict movesets and determine uniqueness or use them as a argument is pointless. Ex. Fox/Falcon were pretty much made up, Ness borrows attacks he doesn't normally use, people bet on Wario Land and Pac Man World to be the main reps for their movesets. Mac/Pac were both declared boring as **** as well.

Granted Chrom didn't end up making it in for the general predicted reasons, but arguably, from his fans perspective, Sakurai could have come up with new sword techniques or given him a lance to use for certain attacks, maybe even implement FE's Weapon Change system to change up his default moveset's range/power. Dual Attack was also seen as a given Final Smash.

Beyond that I agree. With Takamaru I'd imagine they'd focus on graceful swordplay like Marth, have a similar speed to default Shulk, given him access to his throwing knives/shurikens/fireballs depending on customs, turn invisible for a D-Special, and summon lightning strikes for a Final Smash. Would love to seem them implement an ammo or a power up system so he can throw projectiles in multiple directions or increase his mobility.



It's funny, but neither of them are very samurai-like. XD



I'm having Chronobound flashbacks. lol

My point though is that there's no point making characters playable when they A) don't have enough of an identity to really get an interesting, personalised moveset from, or B) are defined as a character who absolutely would not fight (e.g Isabelle).

Captain Falcon and Fox may not have performed the exact moves they use in Smash before Smash, but the aspects of their characters the moves come from are obvious to any fan of the character. And the whole point of adding characters to Smash to begin with is to please fans of those popular and beloved characters and their games.

 

[Deleted member]

It's funny, but neither of them are very samurai-like. XD

It's like I said in my edit, one's a "ninja-samurai", the other's a "sumo-samurai".


......now I'm remembering why I used to heavily support Goroh in the past before I leaned towards Black Shadow more (though I still supported Goroh).

I'm having Chronobound flashbacks. lol

I'm trying to remember; was Chrono one who argued against the two being clones when others were saying they'd be clones, or was he arguing they would?

 

[FalKoopa]

...They kinda would, because they are both defined by the fact they are samurais. It's really one or the other, unless you want more clones.

Takamaru and Goroh as about as alike as and . They're moustachioed plumbers, and Taka & Goroh share a Samurai motif.

Takamaru can draw a lot from Japanese folklore, would be more graceful fighter (ala ) and has a projectile, and would be a middleweight.
Goroh is reckless (just look at his assist trophy), would have more improvised moves (ala ) and would be a heavyweight.