Character Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

Ugh... Jumpman... SMH

I'd rather have Pauline. At least she's not a different version of Mario. And she's a Nintendo starlet.

She could even summon Donkey Kong Jr. and Stanley to assist her. For example, Up+B for Donkey Kong Jr. to carry Pauline up the vines... Neutral B for Stanley to shoot the bug spray can up like Ivysaur's Neutral B move.

And she could use her parasol and purse for her normal moves... and throw random Mini toys (including Snapjaws) to attack enemies with Side+B... and summon a burning oil drum with fireball enemies coming out of the barrel with Down+B... her Final Smash could be 8-Bit Donkey Kong coming down the vines and knocking bee hives to make bees swarm the stage.

If this gets in, and gets categorised as a DK character, I will murder some ****.

 

[SmashChu]

Didnt brawl sell significantly more than melee?

Yes. By about 4 million copies.

All of those games were home to critical acclaim and tons of sales and gave birth to legions of fans.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean others don't.

Outside of Twlight Princess, the series has been in series decline. Both Wind Waker and Skyward Sword did bad for the series. I wouldn't be surprised if Zelda WIi U is a direct response to games like Skyrim stealing the Zelda consumer.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Yes. By about 4 million copies.

Outside of Twlight Princess, the series has been in series decline. Both Wind Waker and Skyward Sword did bad for the series. I wouldn't be surprised if Zelda WIi U is a direct response to games like Skyrim stealing the Zelda consumer.

Ok, here's something I don't get if Wind Waker was considered bad:
Why release a HD version of a failed game for the Wii U?

 

[Kenith]

Outside of Twlight Princess, the series has been in series decline. Both Wind Waker and Skyward Sword did bad for the series. I wouldn't be surprised if Zelda WIi U is a direct response to games like Skyrim stealing the Zelda consumer.

Did bad compared to a series of games where every new installment is considered revolutionary and has had over two decades to sell millions of copies = bad in general.

 

[Burruni]

We wanna go over theoretical Smash 5 rosters?

Okay, let me throw my hat in the ring here.

Disclaimer: This goes off the grounds that our "Pre-Ballot" DLC is Mewtwo, Roy, Lucas, Wolf, & Ryu. Our following "Ballot" DLC consists of (3 to) 5 of newcomers present, most likely: King K. Rool, Isaac, Inklings, Bandana Dee, & Dixie Kong.

Now, I'm going to go into a fairly lengthy explanation on my theorization of DLC, transitional changes, and the following newcomers

DLC

Spoiler

1) King K. Rool - He's a long running villain of a series people have been begging for more content of since even Melee. He's a wildly requested villain who fits into the fighter model just as easily as Bowser and just as important to his home series. With fan outcry for him in both Smash and an eventual Donkey Kong Country Return 3. Any fan who has fought this croc across his titles argue not over him being a very simple boss when it comes to repeated similar tactics (unlike Bowser in mainline Mario in most cases, Ridley, or king Dedede) but WHAT from his many appearances to pull into a moveset. A boomerang crown, impressive speed, large leaps, a high-utility blunderbuss, a helipack, boxing skill, having a Sonic-esque kind of combat roll, even breathing fire alongside impressive climbing and slicing ability are all bits of his arsenal. He and his Kremlings have been absent in the two existing Donkey Kong Country Returns games. Ganon/Ganondorf was not present in a game between Twilight Princess and Link Between Worlds but that by no means made him a lacking part of the series. Bowser being absent in the two Mario Land titles didn't have anyone question his place in the series. The Donkey Kong series, since the SNES, has been namely held up by one concept: Krocs vs Kongs.

2) Isaac - The very popular and critically acclaimed GBA duology of games with the less stellar but still good and solid DS third game in an overspanning story is the simple version of Golden Sun's credentials. Somewhere a bit below the likes of Mother or Xenoblade, but it is one whose company is still being in frequent use of Nintendo but hasn't touched a game in years.... But Isaac himself? A Magiknight only comparable to Robin with skills of geomancy, psycho-kinetic hands, djinn to raise stats, unleash power, and evoking massive summons. And that is keeping Isaac to the grounds as a Venus Adept in a game series that promots messing around with classes and affinity.

3) Inklings - The game will have been out months before the ballot closes and maybe even a year before they would come in as DLC. They can be made visually distinct from the Miinkling outfits even with the same gender and color combination that's no more confusing thatn Pit & Dark Pit of similar colors, or Dark Samus the assist trophy and Samus's alternate color of the same look. The most wildly popular and well selling new IP Nintendo has seen in years easily. This is Nintendo's only real game within the entire genre which has a massive community and a creative literal arsenal that translates in style very easily for Smash. The hype pre-release was enough to warrant the costumes. Them being hype-worthy characters is AS viable if not more as DLC newcomers in Smash 4 than newcomers in Smash 5. If Inklings were pull-worthy enough to have people invent in Smash, would they not do it over the VETERAN as much as the NEWCOMER? Their recency and the outfits are detracting points, but are they truly enough to stop characters who are popular and viable enough? It is no understatement to say the game is big to get 3 special Amiibos, a manga running, nearly selling out in Japan for the full stock in the opening week, and being a bundle for the WiiU.

4) Bandana Dee - The 4th Protagonist of the Kirby series, one which normally tosses away a character after a game or two if you are not who has been a major part of multiplayer in Return to Dreamland & Rainbow Curse while retaining a helper role in Triple Deluxe after being in just a mini-game in Super Star and getting more highlight in Super Star Ultra via the King's Revenge sub-game. A small and cute spear user who Hal has clearly made a staple of modern Kirby at this point. His comparatively small fanbase compared to the three above and around that of the last one on this list are the one of few major things that can be said against him legitimately.

5) Dixie Kong - The third protagonist of the DK series. She's a major part of the series but one that's a bit behind & for heroes and certainly behind K. Rool for the impact to the series as a hole. Her recent usage in Tropical Freeze has brought her fans out again. There's little more that NEEDS to be said. She's an agile ape with prehensile hair that can grab, smack, and even allow limited hovering and height being gained.

Veterans Gained & Lost

Spoiler

1) Characters Sakurai hand-chose for Melee and have been a very iconic Smash veteran with a unique mechanic and moveset. The true thing that kept them out were technical matters that I don't see being surmounted in this generation but won't be a matter by the next generation of Smash.

2) & , due to how little they will be touched by future titles (the former due to the series likely being kept dormant, and the latter by the nature of the series,) will likely be demoted down into the costumes they originally were or be too low in priority to end up returning. I don't see being cut by the nature of his model being an edit from Mario's and being a clone who at least keeps some decent differentiation.

Most of the characters at this point are unique in moveset or high in demand clones that I just don't see many cuts. Call me an optimist.

Newcomers

Spoiler

1) Waluigi - The embodiment for the many sports, party, and kart styled sub-series that Mario has spawned if not holding a major appearance in a Wario/Mario title by the time the next game comes around due to the very quirky nature of the character and growing popularity or the odd, odd man. Bias is here but I genuinely see him as more likely than Captain Toad as a newcomer.

2) Paper Mario - The far more differentiated Mario RPG series that I see getting one major title between now and Smash 5, likely salvaging his popularity well after Sticker Star's outcry by fans. His reliance on a hammer more than his legs makes him more akin to Icies than Mario with an arsenal of helpers whose bits and pieces could be put into a moveset.

3) Ganon - Starting with Nintendoland and Link Between Worlds, I believe the series is going to have a resurgence of usage for the more resident and potent identity of the main villain. Little else to say. Zelda has not gotten a newcomer since Brawl, and arguably Melee if you see Toon Link as an evolution of Young Link as a fighter. Against the outcry of Impa fans and her very questionable usage in the series to come, my bet is more on the Lord of Porkness.

4) Ridley - There's nothing that needs to be said that hasn't been done a thousand times before. I genuinely believe that by Smash 5, either Ridley is going to have a bulkier body that works better as a fighter, Sakurai is not going to be directing, or even both. Prediction, not desire.

5) Anna - The very versatile redhead of the series with appearances in all but one title to this point. If it wasn't assured before then, Awakening made it very clear that Anna is a character... and family that Intelligent System has a very big love for and use her very openly for various roles. If she holds a significant unit or even boss role in 14 & 15/16 between now and Smash 5, I don't see why she wouldn't be promoted by IS to be put in.

6) (Slot) Fire Emblem Newcomer - Yes, I'm holding grounds for 6 total Fire Emblem characters with another addition being a major protagonist from 14, 15, or 16. As much as people may groan, I genuinely see it happen if they have the potential to still be a unique fighter.

7) Andy - Advance Wars, the little sister to Fire Emblem is a series that has been fairly dormant but I see gaining at least one major addition between now and Smash 5. Little more to say other than it is a series that I believe will get more representation than just the assist trophy it holds.

8) Isabelle - I have no clue what her moveset would be, but after her big popularity out of New Leaf to warrant addition into Mario Kart and having a big role in Happy Home Designer... or whatever it's called makes me feel confident that she will take a major reocurring role in the series and out-shine Tom Nook as a second character.

9) (Slot) Pokemon Newcomer - If you don't think Pokemon will get a new character from Generations 7/8, I don't know what to even say.

10) Marshal - Legitimately is more being used as a seat filler for a Rhythm Heaven newcomer. It's a series that after the debacle this time around and only growing more popular with The Best + being campaigned for localization before even the Japanese release, I see it being another series to get a space in Smash.

11) Chibi Robo - A bit of an underdog of middling support but a creative non-combattive abilities for the most part. Him being worthy enough for an Amiibo and getting a new game is one step on his path in my opinion. A for Smash 5.

12) (Slot) New Series Newcomer - Simply said, I think either a new series is going to pop up worthy of a slot in Smash like or Inklings, or someone somewhat old will be brought in like or Isaac.

13) Takamaru - Very leading retro character who was a Sakurai pic but was held back by western unfamiliarity that by now is a moot point by being in Smash as an assist trophy, the inverse case than .

14) Tenative (Slot) Xenoblade Newcomer - If Elma or even a character from a third Xenoblade game is not impactful enough to get a second character for the series like was for Mother, then chalk this up to either being a slot for another series like Dillon or a popular newcomer for an existant series such as Krystal.


15) Shantae - She's gotten a surge of popularity and push for a third party series with a close tie to Nintendo... even being one of few games people would say was worth a purchase on the DSi ware. While not a knock-out character like Ryu, my other 3rd Party newcomer, or even , I... just have a feeling that she'll find her way in.

16) Black Mage - If we want to talk about genre-defining series like Street Fighter or to a lesser extent Megaman, there's no argument that Final Fantasy is one of these massive series that was a massive tie to Nintendo and has a number of spin-offs that still make significant titles on Nintendo systems (namely handhelds). Black Mage is almost inarguably the most iconic character/design of the entire series that ties most to the Nintendo games for the series, much like how we got classic & . Square Enix has allowed for Black Mage to be one of 5 Final Fantasy characters present in Mario Sports Spin-Offs before so I truly don't believe it is a stretch to see making a debut in Smash.

17) Miigician - I think we'll see the Mii Fighters characters expanded out by at least one "class" put in. A spellcaster seems most probable because it's a fairly open idea for the few characters present that fill it: . Ganon & Black Mage by my additions.

A total of 77 characters.

The major high-demand characters I've excluded: Impa, Captain Toad, Krystal, Lip, & to a lesser extent Mach Rider.

I just don't see them coming, and apologize to their fans if they're offended.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We wanna go over theoretical Smash 5 rosters?

Okay, let me throw my hat in the ring here.

Disclaimer: This goes off the grounds that our "Pre-Ballot" DLC is Mewtwo, Roy, Lucas, Wolf, & Ryu. Our following "Ballot" DLC consists of (3 to) 5 of newcomers present, most likely: King K. Rool, Isaac, Inklings, Bandana Dee, & Dixie Kong.

Now, I'm going to go into a fairly lengthy explanation on my theorization of DLC, transitional changes, and the following newcomers

DLC

Spoiler

1) King K. Rool - He's a long running villain of a series people have been begging for more content of since even Melee. He's a wildly requested villain who fits into the fighter model just as easily as Bowser and just as important to his home series. With fan outcry for him in both Smash and an eventual Donkey Kong Country Return 3. Any fan who has fought this croc across his titles argue not over him being a very simple boss when it comes to repeated similar tactics (unlike Bowser in mainline Mario in most cases, Ridley, or king Dedede) but WHAT from his many appearances to pull into a moveset. A boomerang crown, impressive speed, large leaps, a high-utility blunderbuss, a helipack, boxing skill, having a Sonic-esque kind of combat roll, even breathing fire alongside impressive climbing and slicing ability are all bits of his arsenal. He and his Kremlings have been absent in the two existing Donkey Kong Country Returns games. Ganon/Ganondorf was not present in a game between Twilight Princess and Link Between Worlds but that by no means made him a lacking part of the series. Bowser being absent in the two Mario Land titles didn't have anyone question his place in the series. The Donkey Kong series, since the SNES, has been namely held up by one concept: Krocs vs Kongs.

2) Isaac - The very popular and critically acclaimed GBA duology of games with the less stellar but still good and solid DS third game in an overspanning story is the simple version of Golden Sun's credentials. Somewhere a bit below the likes of Mother or Xenoblade, but it is one whose company is still being in frequent use of Nintendo but hasn't touched a game in years.... But Isaac himself? A Magiknight only comparable to Robin with skills of geomancy, psycho-kinetic hands, djinn to raise stats, unleash power, and evoking massive summons. And that is keeping Isaac to the grounds as a Venus Adept in a game series that promots messing around with classes and affinity.

3) Inklings - The game will have been out months before the ballot closes and maybe even a year before they would come in as DLC. They can be made visually distinct from the Miinkling outfits even with the same gender and color combination that's no more confusing thatn Pit & Dark Pit of similar colors, or Dark Samus the assist trophy and Samus's alternate color of the same look. The most wildly popular and well selling new IP Nintendo has seen in years easily. This is Nintendo's only real game within the entire genre which has a massive community and a creative literal arsenal that translates in style very easily for Smash. The hype pre-release was enough to warrant the costumes. Them being hype-worthy characters is AS viable if not more as DLC newcomers in Smash 4 than newcomers in Smash 5. If Inklings were pull-worthy enough to have people invent in Smash, would they not do it over the VETERAN as much as the NEWCOMER? Their recency and the outfits are detracting points, but are they truly enough to stop characters who are popular and viable enough? It is no understatement to say the game is big to get 3 special Amiibos, a manga running, nearly selling out in Japan for the full stock in the opening week, and being a bundle for the WiiU.

4) Bandana Dee - The 4th Protagonist of the Kirby series, one which normally tosses away a character after a game or two if you are not who has been a major part of multiplayer in Return to Dreamland & Rainbow Curse while retaining a helper role in Triple Deluxe after being in just a mini-game in Super Star and getting more highlight in Super Star Ultra via the King's Revenge sub-game. A small and cute spear user who Hal has clearly made a staple of modern Kirby at this point. His comparatively small fanbase compared to the three above and around that of the last one on this list are the one of few major things that can be said against him legitimately.

5) Dixie Kong - The third protagonist of the DK series. She's a major part of the series but one that's a bit behind & for heroes and certainly behind K. Rool for the impact to the series as a hole. Her recent usage in Tropical Freeze has brought her fans out again. There's little more that NEEDS to be said. She's an agile ape with prehensile hair that can grab, smack, and even allow limited hovering and height being gained.

Veterans Gained & Lost

Spoiler

1) Characters Sakurai hand-chose for Melee and have been a very iconic Smash veteran with a unique mechanic and moveset. The true thing that kept them out were technical matters that I don't see being surmounted in this generation but won't be a matter by the next generation of Smash.

2) & , due to how little they will be touched by future titles (the former due to the series likely being kept dormant, and the latter by the nature of the series,) will likely be demoted down into the costumes they originally were or be too low in priority to end up returning. I don't see being cut by the nature of his model being an edit from Mario's and being a clone who at least keeps some decent differentiation.

Most of the characters at this point are unique in moveset or high in demand clones that I just don't see many cuts. Call me an optimist.

Newcomers

Spoiler

1) Waluigi - The embodiment for the many sports, party, and kart styled sub-series that Mario has spawned if not holding a major appearance in a Wario/Mario title by the time the next game comes around due to the very quirky nature of the character and growing popularity or the odd, odd man. Bias is here but I genuinely see him as more likely than Captain Toad as a newcomer.

2) Paper Mario - The far more differentiated Mario RPG series that I see getting one major title between now and Smash 5, likely salvaging his popularity well after Sticker Star's outcry by fans. His reliance on a hammer more than his legs makes him more akin to Icies than Mario with an arsenal of helpers whose bits and pieces could be put into a moveset.

3) Ganon - Starting with Nintendoland and Link Between Worlds, I believe the series is going to have a resurgence of usage for the more resident and potent identity of the main villain. Little else to say. Zelda has not gotten a newcomer since Brawl, and arguably Melee if you see Toon Link as an evolution of Young Link as a fighter. Against the outcry of Impa fans and her very questionable usage in the series to come, my bet is more on the Lord of Porkness.

4) Ridley - There's nothing that needs to be said that hasn't been done a thousand times before. I genuinely believe that by Smash 5, either Ridley is going to have a bulkier body that works better as a fighter, Sakurai is not going to be directing, or even both. Prediction, not desire.

5) Anna - The very versatile redhead of the series with appearances in all but one title to this point. If it wasn't assured before then, Awakening made it very clear that Anna is a character... and family that Intelligent System has a very big love for and use her very openly for various roles. If she holds a significant unit or even boss role in 14 & 15/16 between now and Smash 5, I don't see why she wouldn't be promoted by IS to be put in.

6) (Slot) Fire Emblem Newcomer - Yes, I'm holding grounds for 6 total Fire Emblem characters with another addition being a major protagonist from 14, 15, or 16. As much as people may groan, I genuinely see it happen if they have the potential to still be a unique fighter.

7) Andy - Advance Wars, the little sister to Fire Emblem is a series that has been fairly dormant but I see gaining at least one major addition between now and Smash 5. Little more to say other than it is a series that I believe will get more representation than just the assist trophy it holds.

8) Isabelle - I have no clue what her moveset would be, but after her big popularity out of New Leaf to warrant addition into Mario Kart and having a big role in Happy Home Designer... or whatever it's called makes me feel confident that she will take a major reocurring role in the series and out-shine Tom Nook as a second character.

9) (Slot) Pokemon Newcomer - If you don't think Pokemon will get a new character from Generations 7/8, I don't know what to even say.

10) Marshal - Legitimately is more being used as a seat filler for a Rhythm Heaven newcomer. It's a series that after the debacle this time around and only growing more popular with The Best + being campaigned for localization before even the Japanese release, I see it being another series to get a space in Smash.

11) Chibi Robo - A bit of an underdog of middling support but a creative non-combattive abilities for the most part. Him being worthy enough for an Amiibo and getting a new game is one step on his path in my opinion. A for Smash 5.

12) (Slot) New Series Newcomer - Simply said, I think either a new series is going to pop up worthy of a slot in Smash like or Inklings, or someone somewhat old will be brought in like or Isaac.

13) Takamaru - Very leading retro character who was a Sakurai pic but was held back by western unfamiliarity that by now is a moot point by being in Smash as an assist trophy, the inverse case than .

14) Tenative (Slot) Xenoblade Newcomer - If Elma or even a character from a third Xenoblade game is not impactful enough to get a second character for the series like was for Mother, then chalk this up to either being a slot for another series like Dillon or a popular newcomer for an existant series such as Krystal.


15) Shantae - She's gotten a surge of popularity and push for a third party series with a close tie to Nintendo... even being one of few games people would say was worth a purchase on the DSi ware. While not a knock-out character like Ryu, my other 3rd Party newcomer, or even , I... just have a feeling that she'll find her way in.

16) Black Mage - If we want to talk about genre-defining series like Street Fighter or to a lesser extent Megaman, there's no argument that Final Fantasy is one of these massive series that was a massive tie to Nintendo and has a number of spin-offs that still make significant titles on Nintendo systems (namely handhelds). Black Mage is almost inarguably the most iconic character/design of the entire series that ties most to the Nintendo games for the series, much like how we got classic & . Square Enix has allowed for Black Mage to be one of 5 Final Fantasy characters present in Mario Sports Spin-Offs before so I truly don't believe it is a stretch to see making a debut in Smash.

17) Miigician - I think we'll see the Mii Fighters characters expanded out by at least one "class" put in. A spellcaster seems most probable because it's a fairly open idea for the few characters present that fill it: . Ganon & Black Mage by my additions.

A total of 77 characters.

The major high-demand characters I've excluded: Impa, Captain Toad, Krystal, Lip, & to a lesser extent Mach Rider.

I just don't see them coming, and apologize to their fans if they're offended.

"MUK RAYDUR US A SHOE UN U EDIUT"
I feel like this is pretty good. You even withheld your bias as you've stated you don't like Ridley

 

[Burruni]

"MUK RAYDUR US A SHOE UN U EDIUT"
I feel like this is pretty good. You even withheld your bias as you've stated you don't like Ridley

I tried to.
Waluigi, Black Mage, Anna and Shantae are still there even if Ridley, Paper Mario, and Roy are and Ashley and Sceptile aren't

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I tried to.
Waluigi, Black Mage and Shantae are still there even if Ridley, Paper Mario, and Roy are.

Black Mage is pretty much Bias Incarnate as SE is so goddamn clingy

 

[Putuk]

I think it's too early to make fake Smash 5 rosters.
We don't know what sort of characters or even IPs Nintendo's gonna introduce in the next years.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, even though we know Leif was never considered, I'd prefer him over Roy. Especially as Leif had something to do with Marth's Moveset, Dancing Blade being Astra/Meteor Sword and Dolphin Slash being a crit animation

 

[Deleted member]

Did bad compared to a series of games where every new installment is considered revolutionary and has had over two decades to sell millions of copies = bad in general.

By "bad", I think he means these two were among the most controversial on their time of release within the Zelda fanbase, with the cel-shaded and "cartoony" graphics of Wind Waker, and with Skyward Sword... being Skyward Sword.

And I was used to be a great Zelda fan with Wind Waker and Majora's Mask as my favorites in the series... until Skyward Sword and Hyrule Warriors happened and made me becoming an ex-fan.[/kindaofftopic]

 

[Arcadenik]

We posting SSB5 rosters / wish lists again? Here's my current one right before E3 2015.

Mario series

Toad

Donkey Kong series

Dixie Kong
King K. Rool

Wario series

Overalls Wario - now a separate character with Wario Land moves

Zelda series

Tingle

Metroid series

Ridley

Kid Icarus series

Medusa

Mother series


Fire Emblem series

Kamui

Kirby series

Waddle Dee

Star Fox series


Pokemon series

Meowth
New Pokemon

Pikmin series

Alph - now a separate character who exclusively uses Rock Pikmin

Xenoblade series

Elma

Smash series


Other Nintendo franchises

Takamaru
Muddy Mole
Chibi-Robo
Chorus Kids
Wandering Heroes
Mallo
Inkling
Captain N - the next surprise retro character after G&W, ROB, and DHD

Third-Party characters

Ryu
Simon Belmont
Banjo-Kazooie

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I really don't think we should be speculating for the next game while ssb4 is still early in it's life. We don't even know what characters we will get for DLC. As for DLC, here is my thoughts on the subject (copied and pasted from the Ice Climbers thread):
Pre-Ballot:

• All Veterans except for maybe Snake. The only veterans that don't have a character in smash to work off of is Wolf (Has high fan demand), Ice Climbers (Are almost done), Ivysaur (I believe is popular in Japan), Squirtle (Same as Ivysaur), and Snake. The only character I can't predict getting in is Snake. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets in, but I'm not gonna except him.
• All characters that were previously worked on, but were left unfinished. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't add these characters. less work (provided they went past the drawing board.) and might be good for newcomers. I'm positive that many veterans fit this description as well.

Ballot:

• 0-2 Bottom tier characters. This would be characters like Arthur that is only wanted by few people, but have potential for a unique gimmick. (No I don't think it would be a third party character, Arthur was the first character to pop into my head)
• 1-2 Low tier characters. More likely for a surprise character. This would most likely be a character that would excite everyone even though it was supported by the minority.
• 2-3 Mid tier characters. This would probably be characters that are only popular in one region. So I think we should get a couple of these to keep the major regions happy.
• 2-4 High tier characters. Characters that would make the majority happy. No questions asked. I think this section is bound to get at least one character.
• 3-6 Top tier characters. This section of characters is destined to get at least two characters. These are the characters that would make the most amount of people happy.

So basically:
Three easy to make characters, one of which may give much more money than used to make the character in the first place.
Two 1/2 characters that have high fan demand and/or are mostly done before DLC was made.
At least two characters that were being worked on, and take less work than starting from scratch.
and then the ballot characters. I'd say about....um......8?
So for DLC as a whole, maybe.....13-24. So we will have a total roster of 64-75 characters. 75 is me being an optimist, and 64 being the minimal I think we will get.

 

[Kenith]

By "bad", I think he means these two were among the most controversial on their time of release within the Zelda fanbase, with the cel-shaded and "cartoony" graphics of Wind Waker, and with Skyward Sword... being Skyward Sword.
And I was used to be a great Zelda fan with Wind Waker and Majora's Mask as my favorites in the series... until Skyward Sword and Hyrule Warriors happened and made me becoming an ex-fan.[/kindaofftopic]

People really overstate Skyward Sword's issues...I love it as much as any other Zelda game, if not more because Ghirahim.

 

[Arcanir]

Outside of Twlight Princess, the series has been in series decline. Both Wind Waker and Skyward Sword did bad for the series. I wouldn't be surprised if Zelda WIi U is a direct response to games like Skyrim stealing the Zelda consumer.

Assuming you mean sales, the comparison between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess is pretty dishonest. Wind Waker did sell less then Twilight Princess overall, but consider that A) it sold on a much less successful system (Gamecube only sold 21.74 million vs. Wii's 101 million) and B) the latter was sold on both of those systems, of course Twilight Princess would do better. Considering the circumstances, Wind Waker probably did pretty well for itself considering the only games that outsold it on the Gamecube were Melee, Mario Kart Double Dash and Mario Sunshine.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Didn't the Zelda fanbase pull a 180 on the Wind Waker graphics?

 

[N3ON]

Skyward Sword will be "bad" until the next Zelda comes out, then it'll become a "classic" a la MM after WW, WW after TP, and TP after SS.


Also, my predictions for Smash 5 newcomers:
Inkling
RH character
New Gen Pokemon
Newest FE protag
~ten others.

Too early to be sure about anything else.

 

[Kenith]

Skyward Sword will be "bad" until the next Zelda comes out, then it'll become a "classic" a la MM after WW, WW after TP, and TP after SS.
Also, my predictions for Smash 5 newcomers:
Inkling
RH character
New Gen Pokemon
Newest FE protag
~ten others.
Too early to be sure about anything else.

The only ones out of those I'm certain of are a RH character and a new Pokemon.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

[Dr.Alt](Nabbit) (Captain Toad)
(Dixie Kong) (K. Rool) [Revamped](Impa)
(Ridley)(Wolf) (Riki/X Heropon alt) (Isaac)
( Gen X) (Bandana Dee) (Magolor)
(Roy) ( FE: X) (Bulborb)[Revamped Alts] (Isabelle) (Tom Nook)
(Takamaru) (Chorus Kids) (Monita) (Inkling)(Ryu)
[Revamped into a fully customisable character] (Random)

 

[Kenith]

Here's my prediction roster

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah, he brought up King K. Rool as a suggestion, but I don't think he went with specifics like how he commented on how Lip's game was a masterpiece or how he didn't Excitebiker could work with him on a vehicle.

 

[Kenith]

I hope the next Smash game has characters with dynamic movesets, ex. Mach Rider being able to fight on and off of his motorcycle, Ganondorf fighting hand-to-hand while also occasionally using his Execution Sword, or the Fire Emblem characters all having access to swords, axes and lances, or Samus's armor breaking off as she takes damage, eventually leaving her as Zero Suit Samus.

That would add a whole new layer to the game imo, and would give more opportunities for the characters to use things true to their games. And my examples were very basic.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, he brought up King K. Rool as a suggestion, but I don't think he went with specifics like how he commented on how Lip's game was a masterpiece or how he didn't Excitebiker could work with him on a vehicle.

He didn't. Then again, he's never talked about Rhythm Heaven

 

[Dragoncharystary]

We wanna go over theoretical Smash 5 rosters?

Okay, let me throw my hat in the ring here.

Disclaimer: This goes off the grounds that our "Pre-Ballot" DLC is Mewtwo, Roy, Lucas, Wolf, & Ryu. Our following "Ballot" DLC consists of (3 to) 5 of newcomers present, most likely: King K. Rool, Isaac, Inklings, Bandana Dee, & Dixie Kong.

Now, I'm going to go into a fairly lengthy explanation on my theorization of DLC, transitional changes, and the following newcomers

DLC

Spoiler

1) King K. Rool - He's a long running villain of a series people have been begging for more content of since even Melee. He's a wildly requested villain who fits into the fighter model just as easily as Bowser and just as important to his home series. With fan outcry for him in both Smash and an eventual Donkey Kong Country Return 3. Any fan who has fought this croc across his titles argue not over him being a very simple boss when it comes to repeated similar tactics (unlike Bowser in mainline Mario in most cases, Ridley, or king Dedede) but WHAT from his many appearances to pull into a moveset. A boomerang crown, impressive speed, large leaps, a high-utility blunderbuss, a helipack, boxing skill, having a Sonic-esque kind of combat roll, even breathing fire alongside impressive climbing and slicing ability are all bits of his arsenal. He and his Kremlings have been absent in the two existing Donkey Kong Country Returns games. Ganon/Ganondorf was not present in a game between Twilight Princess and Link Between Worlds but that by no means made him a lacking part of the series. Bowser being absent in the two Mario Land titles didn't have anyone question his place in the series. The Donkey Kong series, since the SNES, has been namely held up by one concept: Krocs vs Kongs.

2) Isaac - The very popular and critically acclaimed GBA duology of games with the less stellar but still good and solid DS third game in an overspanning story is the simple version of Golden Sun's credentials. Somewhere a bit below the likes of Mother or Xenoblade, but it is one whose company is still being in frequent use of Nintendo but hasn't touched a game in years.... But Isaac himself? A Magiknight only comparable to Robin with skills of geomancy, psycho-kinetic hands, djinn to raise stats, unleash power, and evoking massive summons. And that is keeping Isaac to the grounds as a Venus Adept in a game series that promots messing around with classes and affinity.

3) Inklings - The game will have been out months before the ballot closes and maybe even a year before they would come in as DLC. They can be made visually distinct from the Miinkling outfits even with the same gender and color combination that's no more confusing thatn Pit & Dark Pit of similar colors, or Dark Samus the assist trophy and Samus's alternate color of the same look. The most wildly popular and well selling new IP Nintendo has seen in years easily. This is Nintendo's only real game within the entire genre which has a massive community and a creative literal arsenal that translates in style very easily for Smash. The hype pre-release was enough to warrant the costumes. Them being hype-worthy characters is AS viable if not more as DLC newcomers in Smash 4 than newcomers in Smash 5. If Inklings were pull-worthy enough to have people invent in Smash, would they not do it over the VETERAN as much as the NEWCOMER? Their recency and the outfits are detracting points, but are they truly enough to stop characters who are popular and viable enough? It is no understatement to say the game is big to get 3 special Amiibos, a manga running, nearly selling out in Japan for the full stock in the opening week, and being a bundle for the WiiU.

4) Bandana Dee - The 4th Protagonist of the Kirby series, one which normally tosses away a character after a game or two if you are not who has been a major part of multiplayer in Return to Dreamland & Rainbow Curse while retaining a helper role in Triple Deluxe after being in just a mini-game in Super Star and getting more highlight in Super Star Ultra via the King's Revenge sub-game. A small and cute spear user who Hal has clearly made a staple of modern Kirby at this point. His comparatively small fanbase compared to the three above and around that of the last one on this list are the one of few major things that can be said against him legitimately.

5) Dixie Kong - The third protagonist of the DK series. She's a major part of the series but one that's a bit behind & for heroes and certainly behind K. Rool for the impact to the series as a hole. Her recent usage in Tropical Freeze has brought her fans out again. There's little more that NEEDS to be said. She's an agile ape with prehensile hair that can grab, smack, and even allow limited hovering and height being gained.

Veterans Gained & Lost

Spoiler

1) Characters Sakurai hand-chose for Melee and have been a very iconic Smash veteran with a unique mechanic and moveset. The true thing that kept them out were technical matters that I don't see being surmounted in this generation but won't be a matter by the next generation of Smash.

2) & , due to how little they will be touched by future titles (the former due to the series likely being kept dormant, and the latter by the nature of the series,) will likely be demoted down into the costumes they originally were or be too low in priority to end up returning. I don't see being cut by the nature of his model being an edit from Mario's and being a clone who at least keeps some decent differentiation.

Most of the characters at this point are unique in moveset or high in demand clones that I just don't see many cuts. Call me an optimist.

Newcomers

Spoiler

1) Waluigi - The embodiment for the many sports, party, and kart styled sub-series that Mario has spawned if not holding a major appearance in a Wario/Mario title by the time the next game comes around due to the very quirky nature of the character and growing popularity or the odd, odd man. Bias is here but I genuinely see him as more likely than Captain Toad as a newcomer.

2) Paper Mario - The far more differentiated Mario RPG series that I see getting one major title between now and Smash 5, likely salvaging his popularity well after Sticker Star's outcry by fans. His reliance on a hammer more than his legs makes him more akin to Icies than Mario with an arsenal of helpers whose bits and pieces could be put into a moveset.

3) Ganon - Starting with Nintendoland and Link Between Worlds, I believe the series is going to have a resurgence of usage for the more resident and potent identity of the main villain. Little else to say. Zelda has not gotten a newcomer since Brawl, and arguably Melee if you see Toon Link as an evolution of Young Link as a fighter. Against the outcry of Impa fans and her very questionable usage in the series to come, my bet is more on the Lord of Porkness.

4) Ridley - There's nothing that needs to be said that hasn't been done a thousand times before. I genuinely believe that by Smash 5, either Ridley is going to have a bulkier body that works better as a fighter, Sakurai is not going to be directing, or even both. Prediction, not desire.

5) Anna - The very versatile redhead of the series with appearances in all but one title to this point. If it wasn't assured before then, Awakening made it very clear that Anna is a character... and family that Intelligent System has a very big love for and use her very openly for various roles. If she holds a significant unit or even boss role in 14 & 15/16 between now and Smash 5, I don't see why she wouldn't be promoted by IS to be put in.

6) (Slot) Fire Emblem Newcomer - Yes, I'm holding grounds for 6 total Fire Emblem characters with another addition being a major protagonist from 14, 15, or 16. As much as people may groan, I genuinely see it happen if they have the potential to still be a unique fighter.

7) Andy - Advance Wars, the little sister to Fire Emblem is a series that has been fairly dormant but I see gaining at least one major addition between now and Smash 5. Little more to say other than it is a series that I believe will get more representation than just the assist trophy it holds.

8) Isabelle - I have no clue what her moveset would be, but after her big popularity out of New Leaf to warrant addition into Mario Kart and having a big role in Happy Home Designer... or whatever it's called makes me feel confident that she will take a major reocurring role in the series and out-shine Tom Nook as a second character.

9) (Slot) Pokemon Newcomer - If you don't think Pokemon will get a new character from Generations 7/8, I don't know what to even say.

10) Marshal - Legitimately is more being used as a seat filler for a Rhythm Heaven newcomer. It's a series that after the debacle this time around and only growing more popular with The Best + being campaigned for localization before even the Japanese release, I see it being another series to get a space in Smash.

11) Chibi Robo - A bit of an underdog of middling support but a creative non-combattive abilities for the most part. Him being worthy enough for an Amiibo and getting a new game is one step on his path in my opinion. A for Smash 5.

12) (Slot) New Series Newcomer - Simply said, I think either a new series is going to pop up worthy of a slot in Smash like or Inklings, or someone somewhat old will be brought in like or Isaac.

13) Takamaru - Very leading retro character who was a Sakurai pic but was held back by western unfamiliarity that by now is a moot point by being in Smash as an assist trophy, the inverse case than .

14) Tenative (Slot) Xenoblade Newcomer - If Elma or even a character from a third Xenoblade game is not impactful enough to get a second character for the series like was for Mother, then chalk this up to either being a slot for another series like Dillon or a popular newcomer for an existant series such as Krystal.


15) Shantae - She's gotten a surge of popularity and push for a third party series with a close tie to Nintendo... even being one of few games people would say was worth a purchase on the DSi ware. While not a knock-out character like Ryu, my other 3rd Party newcomer, or even , I... just have a feeling that she'll find her way in.

16) Black Mage - If we want to talk about genre-defining series like Street Fighter or to a lesser extent Megaman, there's no argument that Final Fantasy is one of these massive series that was a massive tie to Nintendo and has a number of spin-offs that still make significant titles on Nintendo systems (namely handhelds). Black Mage is almost inarguably the most iconic character/design of the entire series that ties most to the Nintendo games for the series, much like how we got classic & . Square Enix has allowed for Black Mage to be one of 5 Final Fantasy characters present in Mario Sports Spin-Offs before so I truly don't believe it is a stretch to see making a debut in Smash.

17) Miigician - I think we'll see the Mii Fighters characters expanded out by at least one "class" put in. A spellcaster seems most probable because it's a fairly open idea for the few characters present that fill it: . Ganon & Black Mage by my additions.

A total of 77 characters.

The major high-demand characters I've excluded: Impa, Captain Toad, Krystal, Lip, & to a lesser extent Mach Rider.

I just don't see them coming, and apologize to their fans if they're offended.

This is a very good roster. The only thing I would do is remove Shantae, because I just don't see her happening.

Here's my prediction roster

View attachment 55382

This is pretty good as well. The only thing I would do is add Bandanna Dee.

 

[Kenith]

Honestly I could cut Tingle for Ganon.
A good friend once said.
Tingle's Assist Trophy fits him perfectly. Annoying and useless.

 

[SmashChu]

Assuming you mean sales, the comparison between Wind Waker and Twilight Princess is pretty dishonest. Wind Waker did sell less then Twilight Princess overall, but consider that A) it sold on a much less successful system (Gamecube only sold 21.74 million vs. Wii's 101 million) and B) the latter was sold on both of those systems, of course Twilight Princess would do better. Considering the circumstances, Wind Waker probably did pretty well for itself considering the only games that outsold it on the Gamecube were Melee, Mario Kart Double Dash and Mario Sunshine.

Lets do some math then. Going to us VGchartz estimates for ease.

N64 sold 32.93 million and the Gamecube sold 21.47. A 34 percent decline in sales
Ocarina of Time sold 7.6 million and Wind Waker sold 4.6 million. A 39 percent drop. This is about the same, but other sources put Wind Waker at 3.06 million which is much greater drop. (More info and source on he Wiki page)

Skyward Sword and TP were on the Wii so there is no excuse there.

 

[Champ Gold]

Here's my dream roster for Smash NX/5






Alts:


Past DLC characters:
Ryu
K. Rool
Wonder Red

Newcomers:
Dixie Kong
Metroid Newcomer
New Pokemon
Kamui
Cross/Elma
Inkling
John Henry
Simon Belmont

 

[Diddy Kong]

People really overstate Skyward Sword's issues...I love it as much as any other Zelda game, if not more because Ghirahim.

Replace Ghirahim for Impa and we have my opinion. No seriously though, Skyward Sword had AWESOME dungeons. And I liked the Motion Controls to, felt really refreshing. Why stupid Twilight Princess is suddenly considered as better is beyond me. Then again, such is the way of the wagonists.

Here's my prediction roster

View attachment 55382

Best. Roster. Ever.

 

[Kenith]

Replace Ghirahim for Impa and we have my opinion. No seriously though, Skyward Sword had AWESOME dungeons. And I liked the Motion Controls to, felt really refreshing. Why stupid Twilight Princess is suddenly considered as better is beyond me. Then again, such is the way of the wagonists.
Best. Roster. Ever.

"stupid Twilight Princess*
*ahem*
I'm surprised to hear best roster ever when there's no Impa?

 

[Arcanir]

Lets do some math then. Going to us VGchartz estimates for ease.

N64 sold 32.93 million and the Gamecube sold 21.47. A 34 percent decline in sales
Ocarina of Time sold 7.6 million and Wind Waker sold 4.6 million. A 39 percent drop. This is about the same, but other sources put Wind Waker at 3.06 million which is much greater drop. (More info and source on he Wiki page)

Skyward Sword and TP were on the Wii so there is no excuse there.

Ignoring the fact that VGCharts isn't reliable, that's still ignoring quite a bit about each of their situations. The two games are selling on two completely different systems with each having different sales for each game to work with, so there's going to be a different ratio in how many games one sold compared to the other. OoT sold 7/32, that's 21% of the systems sold, WW sold 4/21, that's 19% of systems sold. That's a 2% drop in regards to their respective sales of each game, a drop yes, but still comparatively not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. This also ignores the fact that MM sold 3.36 million on the N64 going by wikipedia, so either WW improved on the previous entry's sales or it did just below it despite being on a worse selling system.

Regardless, neither WW or MM, OoT, etc. Are seen as failures by Nintendo anyway.

 

[Diddy Kong]

"stupid Twilight Princess*
*ahem*
I'm surprised to hear best roster ever when there's no Impa?

But Impa is next to Ganondorf...

OH WAIT! I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING! YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THIS SHEIK-LESS ROSTER WHICH IS BLESSED WITH IMPA'S PRESENCE INTO THE EXACT OPPOSITE!

Aren't you?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's my dream roster for Smash NX/5






Alts:


Past DLC characters:
Ryu
K. Rool
Wonder Red

Newcomers:
Dixie Kong
Metroid Newcomer
New Pokemon
Kamui
Cross/Elma
Inkling
John Henry
Simon Belmont

They wouldn't reduce Dark Pit and Lucina to alts. It's the whole reason why they are separate characters in the first place.

 

[Kenith]

But Impa is next to Ganondorf...
OH WAIT! I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING! YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THIS SHEIK-LESS ROSTER WHICH IS BLESSED WITH IMPA'S PRESENCE INTO THE EXACT OPPOSITE!
Aren't you?

Wait...
Oh wow. I forgot Impa was there.
Replacing Sheik with Impa is such a no-brainer act for me at this point I do it subconsciously and forgot she was ever added to my rosters, lol.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Yeah, he brought up King K. Rool as a suggestion, but I don't think he went with specifics like how he commented on how Lip's game was a masterpiece or how he didn't Excitebiker could work with him on a vehicle.

It's all about specifics, eh? Like Sakurai specifically said he didn't like the idea of fighting game characters in Smash, yet we are still getting Ryu as DLC.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wait...
Oh wow. I forgot Impa was there.
Replacing Sheik with Impa is such a no-brainer act for me at this point I do it subconsciously and forgot she was ever added to my rosters, lol.

If you where a woman I would track you down to the end of the world and propose to you on the most magical loving romantical way ever, you'd be thinking this was some kind of chickflick, like The Notebook. Then, I would proceed and give you the loving you could best describe as 50 Shades of Grey, with a little hardcore porno added into the mix.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm not arguing against anything, just noting that Sakurai didn't really comment on the idea of K. Rool up, he mentioned it one poll, but he didn't go further than that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not arguing against anything, just noting that Sakurai didn't really comment on the idea of K. Rool up, he mentioned it one poll, but he didn't go further than that.

That's the same thing I said last night...

 

[Kenith]

If you where a woman I would track you down to the end of the world and propose to you on the most magical loving romantical way ever, you'd be thinking this was some kind of chickflick, like The Notebook. Then, I would proceed and give you the loving you could best describe as 50 Shades of Grey, with a little hardcore porno added into the mix.

Maybe I am a woman.

Spoiler

I'm not though. You can wish to magically love the woman in my avatar though.
That would make two of us.

EDIT:

It's all about specifics, eh? Like Sakurai specifically said he didn't like the idea of fighting game characters in Smash, yet we are still getting Ryu as DLC.

Blue was just clearing up what Sakurai has and hasn't said.
Although the man is such a flip-flop, it's hard to tell what he'll stand by.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No porn here. Unless the porn star who ended up on my 'recommended friends' list becomes playable in Smash

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

EDIT:

Blue was just clearing up what Sakurai has and hasn't said.
Although the man is such a flip-flop, it's hard to tell what he'll stand by.

BluePikmin11 or Sakurai?

I just think that he overanalyzes Sakurai when he specifically talks about a character/group of characters. For example, Sakurai talks about how cutting characters is painful and Blue thinks his main focus on DLC is to bring back every veteran that ever appeared in Smash. There's a chance that it's true, but it's not definite.