Character Discussion Thread

[StormC]

people also forget that Ganondorf's moveset was made with OoT in mind where he didn't even use a sword...before WW and TP...

His design was based on the Space World demo from 2000, in which he used a sword:

Which as we all know, showed up in his Melee art and one of his victory animations.

I also main Ganondorf so I'd be kinda bummed to see his moveset go even if it doesn't fit him. (Classic Ganon, guys, c'mon.)

 

[Burruni]

Ftilt, dtilt, side B, fair, fsmash (was actually used in TP), his use of darkness and electricity is also derived from LoZ which isn't used by falcon (outside the knee of justice)...people also forget that Ganondorf's moveset was made with OoT in mind where he didn't even use a sword...before WW and TP...

F-Smash & D-Tilt were the same as they were in Melee, before TP happened.
Dark energy being used on Black Shadow makes damn well as much sense as Falcon being a pyromancer.
There's no part of his moveset other than the D-taunt which could not be skinned over for Black Shadow as it is. That was the point I was making.
It won't be. But it could be. Big difference.

 

[Aetheri]

Here's the thing though...Changing a character's moveset and giving it to someone else is kinda pointless in my opinion, while yes I would like Ganondorf to have a more accurate moveset (Dead Man's Volley, Warping to give him a better recovery)...I still don't like the idea of it...

F-Smash & D-Tilt were the same as they were in Melee, before TP happened.
Dark energy being used on Black Shadow makes damn well as much sense as Falcon being a pyromancer.
There's no part of his moveset other than the D-taunt which could not be skinned over for Black Shadow as it is. That was the point I was making.
It won't be. But it could be. Big difference.

dtilt isn't the same as melee btw, it was the same as Falcon's being a low leg sweep...fair (and arguably utilt) were the only really differing moves from melee...

 

[StormC]

Here's the thing though...Changing a character's moveset and giving it to someone else is kinda pointless in my opinion

I'm not sure why it would be pointless. It would be giving a character a moveset that fits him while his old moveset is preserved on a different character that it fits more on.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I'd say Smash Bros should have Ganondorf use his tennis balls as a special amirite?

 

[Ikenna Ezechukwu]

I'd say Smash Bros should have Ganondorf use his tennis balls as a special amirite?

Welp, better let Toon Link have an empty bottle handy.

 

[Burruni]

Well, to move the conversation to a new topic.

Let's say we get 5 Ballot characters as DLC.

Of this, Dixie Kong and King K. Rool happen as additions.

Do you guys really see anything more going for DK into Smash 5 other than assist trophies/stage/items?

 

[Deleted member]

Because, in their own words, "Zero represented the series better".
Except for, you know, the entire Classic series, which Zero wasn't in, which started the series, and the longest running, and Mega Man, who was in previous Marvel vs. Capcom games, was the star of.
Like, what? lol

I remember reading quite a few excuses from MvC3's director, Ryota Niitsuma, for Mega Man's exclusion back in the day:

1. Something along the lines of "His moveset wouldn't fit."
2. "He offers nothing unique." <--- I vividly remember this exact quote being one of the excuses.
3. When it was confirmed that he wouldn't appear in Ultimate, Niitsuma claimed that he wasn't requested enough EVEN THOUGH he was in first place on a character request poll on Capcom's OFFICIAL forums.

I really hope that those were mistranslations. The only reason I would exclude Mega Man if I were the director is because he was a rather unpopular character in the previous Capcom Vs. games.

• As someone who mained him along with Strider Hiryu in MvC1, Mega Man was not only low tier in MvC1 and 2, but he was also severely overshadowed by vastly more competitively viable characters in those games.
• In TvC, MegaMan Volnutt from the Legends series served as a replacement for his more iconic classic incarnation, and he was actually pretty good. However, as someone who mained him along with Zero in that game, he was difficult to use and as a result, not very popular from what I recall. It's also worth noting that both TvC and MvC3 were directed by Niitsuma.

As for my opinion on Mega Man in Smash, he's alright. He doesn't suffer the problem of being low tier or difficult to use, but I wouldn't consider him a main. I prefer MegaMan Volnutt in TvC over him, but I have to give Sakurai props for actually being able to conceive a decent moveset for the Blue Bomber.

 

[Kenith]

Welp, better let Toon Link have an empty bottle handy.

I forgot that was a thing.
I remember it actually being way easier to deflect spells with the bottle, lol. They should add that to Toon Link's moveset, it would make him super OP.

I'd say Smash Bros should have Ganondorf use his tennis balls as a special amirite?

Ganondorf's forward Smash should be cloned from Peach then?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Well, to move the conversation to a new topic.

Let's say we get 5 Ballot characters as DLC.

Of this, Dixie Kong and King K. Rool happen as additions.

Do you guys really see anything more going for DK into Smash 5 other than assist trophies/stage/items?

Nope. Once we get K. Rool and Dixie, I'm perfectly fine, I think the DK series is well-represented there. Dixie rounds out the playable characters and K. Rool adds in the main antagonist role.


The only way I see another DK character happening at that point is if they can't find enough characters from other franchises, or new franchises to add. And there's so many Nintendo IP's I see little chance of that happening, they'll just expand to lesser-known franchises (Rhythm Heaven, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars if it continues, GS if it doesn't get in as DLC now and if it continues), or expand lesser-known franchises in the game (Xenoblade, Golden Sun assuming GS continues and Isaac is DLC this time).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, to move the conversation to a new topic.

Let's say we get 5 Ballot characters as DLC.

Of this, Dixie Kong and King K. Rool happen as additions.

Do you guys really see anything more going for DK into Smash 5 other than assist trophies/stage/items?

Um....

Not really...

We have the essentials after that and unless some character rises in the ranks, we don't need anyone else.

Cranky is next in line, but after K.Rool and Dixie I don't feel anything else is necessary right now.

Cranky would still be fun though.

 

[Burruni]

Nope. Once we get K. Rool and Dixie, I'm perfectly fine, I think the DK series is well-represented there. Dixie rounds out the playable characters and K. Rool adds in the main antagonist role.


The only way I see another DK character happening at that point is if they can't find enough characters from other franchises, or new franchises to add. And there's so many Nintendo IP's I see little chance of that happening, they'll just expand to lesser-known franchises (Rhythm Heaven, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars if it continues, GS if it doesn't get in as DLC now and if it continues), or expand lesser-known franchises in the game (Xenoblade, Golden Sun assuming GS continues and Isaac is DLC this time).

Um....

Not really...

We have the essentials after that and unless some character rises in the ranks, we don't need anyone else.

Cranky is next in line, but after K.Rool and Dixie I don't feel anything else is necessary right now.

Cranky would still be fun though.

I'd legitimately want Cranky over Dixie but I know that he's got to be incredibly low priority... especially with only DKCRTF as a playable role (I don't even think he was playable in Barrel Blast). Edit: He was. I'm just a dumb.

Just.. wondering how people felt about any hope for a 5th DK Character, Cranky as the forerunner for that position.

 

[Roaring Salsa]

Dammit, I forgot Unown too!

Actually there are 721 available Pokémon thanks to X & Y.

And don't forget all the Vivillon patterns, too

 

[Ikenna Ezechukwu]

Well, to move the conversation to a new topic.

Let's say we get 5 Ballot characters as DLC.

Of this, Dixie Kong and King K. Rool happen as additions.

Do you guys really see anything more going for DK into Smash 5 other than assist trophies/stage/items?

Our rhinoceros, Rambi!

As an item broken out of this box here.

The fighters will be able to ride him with actual animations! Forget that Pokemon! Thanks for the question!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd legitimately want Cranky over Dixie but I know that he's got to be incredibly low priority... especially with only DKCRTF as a playable role (I don't even think he was playable in Barrel Blast).

Just.. wondering how people felt about any hope for a 5th DK Character, Cranky as the forerunner for that position.

He was playable in barrel blast.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'd legitimately want Cranky over Dixie but I know that he's got to be incredibly low priority... especially with only DKCRTF as a playable role (I don't even think he was playable in Barrel Blast). Edit: He was. I'm just a dumb.

Just.. wondering how people felt about any hope for a 5th DK Character, Cranky as the forerunner for that position.

Cranky was planned to be playable in Diddy Kong Pilot, though he was playable in Konga 3, King of Swing, Barrel Blast, and of course TF. But he's got less playable appearances than even Tiny Kong, as Tiny was in those same games (except Konga 3), DK64 (obviously), DKRDS, and Mario Super Strikers.


But yeah, I see little chance of a fifth DK character in the next Smash title. Cranky would be the frontliner, of course.

Our rhinoceros, Rambi!

As an item broken out of this box here.

The fighters will be able to ride him with actual animations! Forget that Pokemon! Thanks for the question!

Burruni said "besides" items, stages, and assist trophies. The Animal Barrel is an excellent choice for a DK item, though, along with Tires and Steel Kegs.

 

[Kenith]

Tiny Kong was in Super Mario Sluggers, not Strikers.

 

[Burruni]

Cranky was planned to be playable in Diddy Kong Pilot, though he was playable in Konga 3, King of Swing, Barrel Blast, and of course TF. But he's got less playable appearances than even Tiny Kong, as Tiny was in those same games (except Konga 3), DK64 (obviously), DKRDS, and Mario Super Strikers.


But yeah, I see little chance of a fifth DK character in the next Smash title. Cranky would be the frontliner, of course.



Burruni said "besides" items, stages, and assist trophies. The Animal Barrel is an excellent choice for a DK item, though, along with Tires and Steel Kegs.

I'll admit.
The only DK game I got to play between 64 and DKCR was Jungle Beat. I'm a scrub.
I now feel a bit silly that I undervalued Cranky's playable resume.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Tiny Kong was in Super Mario Sluggers, not Strikers.

I always get those names mixed up... The baseball one, lol.

I'll admit.
The only DK game I got to play between 64 and DKCR was Jungle Beat. I'm a scrub.
I now feel a bit silly that I undervalued Cranky's playable resume.

His playable resume isn't that great. He's got about as many playable appearances as DK Jr. I mean, he's got more than Lanky... but he still lags behind. Funky Kong has more playable appearances than Cranky.


I think the only Kongs with less playable appearances than him (barring ones with none at all) are Chunky with 1, Kiddy, Lanky and Wrinkly with 2 (Kiddy DK Land 3 is a separate game). And Wrinkly is only playable... as a ghost.

Oh, after reviewing, Cranky was NOT playable in King of Swing; he and Candy are the only Kongs not playable (even K. Rool is playable in King of Swing). Cranky was playable as part of a minigame called "Cranky's Dojo" in Donkey Kong Country 3 GBA, if you count that as a full appearance...

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Hey KK Slider's pretty coo amirite?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I'll admit.
The only DK game I got to play between 64 and DKCR was Jungle Beat. I'm a scrub.
I now feel a bit silly that I undervalued Cranky's playable resume.

Don't feel too bad though. I didn't play one game between those games lol

Cranky would make the fifth selection of the DK roster, but I'd like to propose a perfect wtf character


Lanky Kong

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Nope. Once we get K. Rool and Dixie, I'm perfectly fine, I think the DK series is well-represented there. Dixie rounds out the playable characters and K. Rool adds in the main antagonist role.


The only way I see another DK character happening at that point is if they can't find enough characters from other franchises, or new franchises to add. And there's so many Nintendo IP's I see little chance of that happening, they'll just expand to lesser-known franchises (Rhythm Heaven, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars if it continues, GS if it doesn't get in as DLC now and if it continues), or expand lesser-known franchises in the game (Xenoblade, Golden Sun assuming GS continues and Isaac is DLC this time).

Let's say those four series that you said get playable characters. Inklings, Dillon, Takamuru, Starfy, Wonder Red, and Mike Jones also become playable and the Ice Climbers return. Do you think we'll ever see a new Nintendo IP again in Smash if that happens?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Let's say those four series that you said get playable characters. Inklings, Dillon, Takamuru, Starfy, Wonder Red, and Mike Jones also become playable and the Ice Climbers return. Do you think we'll ever see a new Nintendo IP again in Smash if that happens?

I say we will. Some of them have to be picked from Nostalgia and others will eventually come. It's a matter of if, when, and how popular they become

 

[Burruni]

Let's say those four series that you said get playable characters. Inklings, Dillon, Takamuru, Starfy, Wonder Red, and Mike Jones also become playable and the Ice Climbers return. Do you think we'll ever see a new Nintendo IP again in Smash if that happens?

Of course. It's just the fact that those big 4 are some of the more major Nintendo franchises to lack representation... Advance Wars not getting a trophy other than the Assist Trophy is a bit sad considering it looked healthier than Fire Emblem in the DS era.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Let's say those four series that you said get playable characters. Inklings, Dillon, Takamuru, Starfy, Wonder Red, and Mike Jones also become playable and the Ice Climbers return. Do you think we'll ever see a new Nintendo IP again in Smash if that happens?

Isaac

Edit
and this is why i shouldnt be reading while half-asleep

 

[Burruni]

Isaac

Golden Sun was one of the initial 4, Oni.
Rhythm Heaven, Chibi-Robo, GS, and Advance Wars.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Let's say those four series that you said get playable characters. Inklings, Dillon, Takamuru, Starfy, Wonder Red, and Mike Jones also become playable and the Ice Climbers return. Do you think we'll ever see a new Nintendo IP again in Smash if that happens?

Yeah, I'd say probably so, though it'll depend on if Nintendo creates more new IP's and the like, and how many other options are there.

Isaac

I got confused at first, too. @ Dragoncharystary said "Let's say those four series that YOU SAID get playable characters." Then lists others that get in -as well-.


The four series I listed were Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Panel de Pon, and Rhythm Heaven. These are probably the biggest Nintendo franchises pre-Smash 4 that don't have playable characters in-game yet.


There's still quite a few others that @ Dragoncharystary didn't even mention, though. In fact, Mike Jones? Extremely unlikely.


Chibi-Robo and Mallo would probably make it in long before Mike Jones. Other possibilities include Barbara (Jam With the Band has a decent number of games) and Style Savvy (I think its third game just released last year, and its got two songs in Smash 4).

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Yeah, I'd say probably so, though it'll depend on if Nintendo creates more new IP's and the like, and how many other options are there.



I got confused at first, too. @ Dragoncharystary said "Let's say those four series that YOU SAID get playable characters." Then lists others that get in -as well-.


The four series I listed were Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Panel de Pon, and Rhythm Heaven. These are probably the biggest Nintendo franchises pre-Smash 4 that don't have playable characters in-game yet.


There's still quite a few others that @ Dragoncharystary didn't even mention, though. In fact, Mike Jones? Extremely unlikely.


Chibi-Robo and Mallo would probably make it in long before Mike Jones. Other possibilities include Barbara (Jam With the Band has a decent number of games) and Style Savvy (I think its third game just released last year, and its got two songs in Smash 4).

Sorry if I confused you. Anyway those were the series' that I could pull right off of the top of my head at the moment. Mike Jones was just another retro character I mentioned.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

In fact, Mike Jones? Extremely unlikely.

I think we can safely agree that no one saw this one coming...

 

[Burruni]

I think we can safely agree that no one saw this one coming...

The difference of being a very gimmicky character form something very recent and major for Nintendo and a 2-game somewhat obscure NES series.....
That said, almost nobody saw WFT as a POSSIBILITY.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

The difference of being a very gimmicky character form something very recent and major for Nintendo and a 2-game somewhat obscure NES series.....
That said, almost nobody saw WFT as a POSSIBILITY.

I wouldn't shut off Mike Jones just yet. While he isn't as popular, he does still have a chance when it comes to classic characters who can add a bit of surprise to the series

 

[JaidynReiman]

I wouldn't shut off Mike Jones just yet. While he isn't as popular, he does still have a chance when it comes to classic characters who can add a bit of surprise to the series

The problem is, there's far more classic characters who'd be picked a lot sooner than Mike Jones, who didn't even appear in Japan. Mach Rider, Excitebike, Takamaru (naturally).

 

[CrusherMania1592]

The problem is, there's far more classic characters who'd be picked a lot sooner than Mike Jones, who didn't even appear in Japan. Mach Rider, Excitebike, Takamaru (naturally).

Yet we ended up getting Duck Hunt Dog over them.

 

[Burruni]

Yet we ended up getting Duck Hunt Dog over them.

TL;DR: Retro characters are shots in the dark but them being iconic or tied to a piece of hardware definitely helps.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yet we ended up getting Duck Hunt Dog over them.

Duck Hunt was just as classic, far more than Mike Jones. I mean, I didn't really consider him, but comparatively speaking, do you really think they'd pick a western-only character? Sakurai is hesitant to add too many Japanese-only characters, but as a Japanese company they're still options that are far more viable.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Duck Hunt was just as classic, far more than Mike Jones. I mean, I didn't really consider him, but comparatively speaking, do you really think they'd pick a western-only character? Sakurai is hesitant to add too many Japanese-only characters, but as a Japanese company they're still options that are far more viable.

Personally, I'd prefer if Japan gets a character exclusive to them in Smash, the west should get one as well. Then again the west doesn't really have any exclusive characters.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Duck Hunt was just as classic, far more than Mike Jones. I mean, I didn't really consider him, but comparatively speaking, do you really think they'd pick a western-only character? Sakurai is hesitant to add too many Japanese-only characters, but as a Japanese company they're still options that are far more viable.

Little Mac is more western than eastern but I see your point. They did originally included Marth and Roy in Melee for Japan only, but the fans became interested and wanted them over, so Melee helped with Fire Emblem to the west. I'd say why not try it at least once with an western character that is popular and see how it goes. More of east and west trades to see what series can end up being popular to expand to the audience

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Little Mac is more western than eastern but I see your point. They did originally included Marth and Roy in Melee for Japan only, but the fans became interested and wanted them over, so Melee helped with Fire Emblem to the west. I'd say why not try it at least once with an western character that is popular and see how it goes. More of east and west trades to see what series can end up being popular to expand to the audience

Melee did barely anything getting Fire Emblem over. It made people interested in the characters but that was it. Advance Wars' sales brought FE over to the west.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Personally, I'd prefer if Japan gets a character exclusive to them in Smash, the west should get one as well. Then again the west doesn't really have any exclusive characters.

Hey, I see the logical idea of it. However, this is Japanese bias here. Of course Japanese will get favored more. Plus, the other issue is... at least the Japanese exclusive characters were popular. Mike Jones isn't really popular or well-known, and on that note, they haven't really done a "Retro" Japanese-exclusive, either.

Little Mac is more western than eastern but I see your point. They did originally included Marth and Roy in Melee for Japan only, but the fans became interested and wanted them over, so Melee helped with Fire Emblem to the west. I'd say why not try it at least once with an western character that is popular and see how it goes. More of east and west trades to see what series can end up being popular to expand to the audience

The difference being that Marth was a popularly requested character. Roy wasn't really, but he was used to promote an upcoming game.

Melee did barely anything getting Fire Emblem over. It made people interested in the characters but that was it. Advance Wars' sales brought FE over to the west.

I think it probably at least helped to get people interested.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Melee did barely anything getting Fire Emblem over. It made people interested in the characters but that was it. Advance Wars' sales brought FE over to the west.

Barely? It helped with getting people interested in the characters who helped with the series