Character Discussion Thread

[Burruni]

Ehhhhhhhh I dunno. I gave him a 60% chance compared to K. Rool's 75%. Lack of Japanese popularity might hurt him.

He has a lack of Japanese Popularity? This.... is news to me.

 

[StormC]

I'm personally neutral on the Inklings. I probably wouldn't want to push content and characters from games that came out after Smash 4 if I could help it, to make Smash 4 feel less like an ongoing roster update... but if they have the popularity to warrant it and offer interesting gameplay opportunities, there's no lock and key to keep them out.

He has a lack of Japanese Popularity? This.... is news to me.

He has his fans, but he's not a top 5 frontrunner like he is in the west. At least according to one of PushDustin's polls.

 

[Chandeelure]

K.Rool is the most popular newcomer in Japan :T

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm curious. How many people would be super hyped if this Amy:

Became DLC.

And how many of you are thinking: "Um........Who?"

 

[Kenith]

Hey, on the topic of regional popularity.
Say there's six characters chosen from the ballot: 2 from the list of Top picks for the US, Japan, and Worldwide. (I know it's a lot but bear with me)
In that event, who would you choose or expect to be chosen?

I'm not entirely who's popular where but my first Worldwide choice would definitely be King K. Rool, and my first US pick would be, believe it or not, Shovel Knight.

 

[Burruni]

I'm personally neutral on the Inklings. I probably wouldn't want to push content and characters from games that came out after Smash 4 if I could help it, to make Smash 4 feel less like an ongoing roster update... but if they have the popularity to warrant it and offer interesting gameplay opportunities, there's no lock and key to keep them out.



He has his fans, but he's not a top 5 frontrunner like he is in the west. At least according to one of PushDustin's polls.

I'll admit, he's farther down than I expected. But I still hold that him still holding top 10 in japan at that point and likely a top 5 if not 3 in US is certainly something that makes him one of the more likely candidates. Especially considering... Ridley being such a high ranking person with minimal to non-existant hope as DLC.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I'm curious. How many people would be super hyped if this Amy:
View attachment 54178
Became DLC.

And how many of you are thinking: "Um........Who?"

Um........Who?

I'll admit, he's farther down than I expected. But I still hold that him still holding top 10 in japan at that point and likely a top 5 if not 3 in US is certainly something that makes him one of the more likely candidates. Especially considering... Ridley being such a high ranking person with minimal to non-existant hope as DLC.

Minimal? How generous of you

I know you're being polite. The annie avi must be getting to you.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Hey, if Inklings make it in I won't be mad. I want them to join Smash, just not now.

I'm personally neutral on the Inklings. I probably wouldn't want to push content and characters from games that came out after Smash 4 if I could help it, to make Smash 4 feel less like an ongoing roster update... but if they have the popularity to warrant it and offer interesting gameplay opportunities, there's no lock and key to keep them out.



He has his fans, but he's not a top 5 frontrunner like he is in the west. At least according to one of PushDustin's polls.

This is where I stand as well.

 

[StormC]

K.Rool is the most popular newcomer in Japan :T

I'm kinda confused by the context of this post. Is anyone disputing this?

 

[Chandeelure]

I'm kinda confused by the context of this post. Is anyone disputing this?

Oh.
For some reason I thought you were saying that K.Rool wasn't that popular in Japan instead of Isaac XD

 

[aldelaro5]

So, I kinda want to bring this up, but I don't think quantity of votes alone is proportional to any characters chances and I bring this up because I agree that it certainly helps, but doesn't make it....

I'm going to bring up Paper Mario again, notice how he seems to be top 10 on quite a lot of polls (top 5 if you actually remove some third parties that have weak chances for other reasons). The thing is, the support I see is mostly silent and scattered...

This is simply because he actually as a character, doesn't exist until he's in smash. Outside of smash, he's the same mario. This is like toon link, he doesn't exist in the zelda series because he's link which does exist. Notice how you need 2 level of abstraction, the existence of the character and the character himself, characters like KKR only has the later because his entity already exist on its own from his games.

Naturally, I expect support to be lower, but it doesn't change the idea and what it bring.

Which is why I think Paper Mario will get more chance in the reasons box rather than the quantity of votes. If the polls do end as him as top 10 and the ballot, that would anyway be enough to consider, what I think will help a lot more is what people write as why him.

This is why I personnelly find the word ballot a weird terms to use, it's not a contest, it's more marketing research and development.

Anyone share a similar opinion?

 

[BKupa666]

I don't think it specifically benefits Paper Mario, but I do think quality of reasons is something that will further bury the "OMG HYPE THIRD PARTY" suggestions.

Example, look at JonTron's ballot for Banjo that I can only imagine his followers are in line with...half of it is literally "They deserve a chance to enter the fray!!!!!" Not to mention, the vast majority of indie character ballots I've seen don't even bother talking about the character, but only say "Their game is SO GOOD, THEY MUST REP IT IN SMASH." Without intentionally joking, you couldn't do a lower quality sales job for why Nintendo should pay extra to an external company on top of the millions it likely takes to develop an individual character, for profit that won't ultimately be substantially different from that of a first party character.

Contrast that with the well-reasoned write-ups on the Nintendo side, talking about why that individual character is great (in their home series and as a Smash contender), and people are really just making it that much easier for Nintendo to "apologize to all the people whose characters didn't make it."

 

[Kenith]

Don't disrespect JonTron in my presence, please.
Even if you're completely right.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'm kinda confused by the context of this post. Is anyone disputing this?

No one should be jumping the gun and saying so-and-so is most popular where. That said, several time's we've had people from here looking into Japanese forums and Japanese social media, and K. Rool has been highly requested ever since near the start of speculation. First was Chronobound looking at Japanese forums, where six characters were highly requested; Mewtwo and Roy the most, then after that it was Palutena, Chrom, K. Rool, and Shulk (in no particular order for these latter for).

PushDustin's more recent analaysis towards the beginning of this year showed that Japanese fans mostly wanted returning characters, but K. Rool was the #1 for newcomers, while Isaac was around 8-9 or so for newcomers (still decently high, but not nearly as high as he is in the west).


We should take all results with a grain of salt, of course... but several analyses have been taken and K. Rool was always pretty high. With basically all of Japan's most wanted newcomers taken out of the picture either through getting in or having other roles (Chrom), K. Rool is currently the highest newcomer left as far as we can tell.

 

[Kenith]

Wait, is Chrom the most wanted newcomer in Japan?

 

[Burruni]

Wait, is Chrom the most wanted newcomer in Japan?

I'm gonna say a strong no.

Solely because King K. and Ridley tend to dominate newcomer situations even in Japan.

 

[aldelaro5]

I don't think it specifically benefits Paper Mario, but I do think quality of reasons is something that will further bury the "OMG HYPE THIRD PARTY" suggestions.

Example, look at JonTron's ballot for Banjo that I can only imagine his followers are in line with...half of it is literally "They deserve a chance to enter the fray!!!!!" Not to mention, the vast majority of indie character ballots I've seen don't even bother talking about the character, but only say "Their game is SO GOOD, THEY MUST REP IT IN SMASH." Without intentionally joking, you couldn't do a lower quality sales job for why Nintendo should pay extra to an external company on top of the millions it likely takes to develop an individual character, for profit that won't ultimately be substantially different from that of a first party character.

Contrast that with the well-reasoned write-ups on the Nintendo side, talking about why that individual character is great (in their home series and as a Smash contender), and people are really just making it that much easier for Nintendo to "apologize to all the people whose characters didn't make it."

This is pretty much my point I was trying to make: quantity helps, sure, but it's not DIRECTLY relative to chances.

The thing is that I see often time characters like KKR, issac or Paper Mario (why I wouldn't mention him?) to have their supporters suggest ideas that would actually warrant the inclusion in many different ways, but their quantity and vocality of supports are so different.

What this means is a character that doesn't have vocal supports but offer many interesting ideas (yes, I just described Paper Mario ) can still have a chance just as much as someone who both has high support and ideas (I would say kkr fits there).

which means that in the end, chances rating are far from simple. There's many stuff that helps or hinder, but mixing it all together is difficult to measure...

So, shovel knight for example has high support lately sure, but in terms of what he brings vs the effort required to put him (aka, third party makes it difficult), it gets a bit less interesting not to mention what it actually took to have ANY third party to happen.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

So I decided to see how popular Tyrantrum was overall (which would help determine how viable he'd be to be chosen); according to the Dorkly poll on the matter, he's higher in popularity than Sceptile and Zoroark.

I'm taking it with a grain of salt, though.

 

[Burruni]

This is pretty much my point I was trying to make: quantity helps, sure, but it's not DIRECTLY relative to chances.

The thing is that I see often time characters like KKR, issac or Paper Mario (why I wouldn't mention him?) to have their supporters suggest ideas that would actually warrant the inclusion in many different ways, but their quantity and vocality of supports are so different.

What this means is a character that doesn't have vocal supports but offer many interesting ideas (yes, I just described Paper Mario ) can still have a chance just as much as someone who both has high support and ideas (I would say kkr fits there).

which means that in the end, chances rating are far from simple. There's many stuff that helps or hinder, but mixing it all together is difficult to measure...

So, shovel knight for example has high support lately sure, but in terms of what he brings vs the effort required to put him (aka, third party makes it difficult), it gets a bit less interesting not to mention what it actually took to have ANY third party to happen.

Technically, the "western third party" issue is more than just being third party for Shovel Knight. The case with him and particularly Shantae is that any legal deal to get the character contracted in for Smash is the maker shoving the character to Smash, unlike the payment deals that were demanded by SEGA in the time of Brawl for example. Plus, god knows how many people the indie teams would send to just to be extra hands for Smash.

 

[Kenith]

I'm gonna say a strong no.
Solely because King K. and Ridley tend to dominate newcomer situations even in Japan.

I'm confused. It seemed like @ JaidynReiman said that King K. Rool was the most wanted newcomer in Japan because Chrom was disconfirmed and therefore didn't count.
Which, even if I didn't have my stance on Chrom and other characters, wouldn't be true.

 

[Burruni]

I'm personally neutral on the Inklings. I probably wouldn't want to push content and characters from games that came out after Smash 4 if I could help it, to make Smash 4 feel less like an ongoing roster update... but if they have the popularity to warrant it and offer interesting gameplay opportunities, there's no lock and key to keep them out.



He has his fans, but he's not a top 5 frontrunner like he is in the west. At least according to one of PushDustin's polls.

I'm confused. It seemed like @ JaidynReiman said that King K. Rool was the most wanted newcomer in Japan because Chrom was disconfirmed and therefore didn't count.
Which, even if I didn't have my stance on Chrom and other characters, wouldn't be true.

Check that poll StormC linked that was done by PushDustin

That was taken near the start of the year, and I'm not sure if Chrom wouldn't be listed if Ridley is.

A sample size, yes, but any user ballot we try to use as a gauge is going to have that problem.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Chrom? If he ever becomes playable, 2 things will likely happen. 1: I will be mad. 2: Morgan helps Robin out in the final smash

 

[Deleted member]

Chrom? If he ever becomes playable, Morgan helps Robin out in the final smash

Or Chrom could still appear in Robin's Final Smash, only as a palette swap when another player chooses to play as him. I've seen at least one other fighting game pull that sort of trick off. Not that I'm expecting him to become playable, though.

 

[StormC]

Notice how you need 2 level of abstraction, the existence of the character and the character himself, characters like KKR only has the later because his entity already exist on its own from his games.

This is a pretty existential framing of inclusion of Smash characters. I think my brain hurts.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'm confused. It seemed like @ JaidynReiman said that King K. Rool was the most wanted newcomer in Japan because Chrom was disconfirmed and therefore didn't count.
Which, even if I didn't have my stance on Chrom and other characters, wouldn't be true.

Sorry. No, what I'm saying is, Chrom -was- one of the most requested characters before the game came out, but he's not nearly as highly requested anymore as of PushDustin's poll because of his disconfirmation. Chrom is the only "highly requested" character (like, within the Top 6) from before the game came out in Japan who isn't coming to the game, and has little chance of ever happening, and with Robin and Lucina, he's not really all that requested anymore.

The only reason I namedropped Chrom is because I said "either through getting in" (clearly referring to Mewtwo, Palutena, and Shulk; Roy was still more requested in PushDustin's analysis), or "having other roles" (the only one who really fits here being Chrom).


Even before release Chronobound's analysis didn't really say in which order the top 6 were most requested, just that Mewtwo and Roy were a lot more requested than Palutena, Chrom, King K. Rool, and Shulk. Then PushDustin's analysis showed that K. Rool was the #1 newcomer, with Krystal and Ridley pretty close behind him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mega Man was also quite a popular character choice, rivalling both King K.Rool and Ridley.

Am seriously not a great fan of Mega Man, but he was definitely up there in terms of popularity.

Shame that he was eventually the only Top Pick to make it into Smash, togheter with Mewtwo I guess...

 

[JaidynReiman]

Mega Man was also quite a popular character choice, rivalling both King K.Rool and Ridley.

Am seriously not a great fan of Mega Man, but he was definitely up there in terms of popularity.

Shame that he was eventually the only Top Pick to make it into Smash, togheter with Mewtwo I guess...

Oh, right, I forgot Mega Man. Sorry about that. Yeah, he was mentioned by Chronobound as well. I think...? Or perhaps it was actually after Mega Man was announced that Chronobound did his thing... not sure.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So, that Direct showed a new Chibi Robo...I know it means nothing but seeing him in the game would be neat

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh, right, I forgot Mega Man. Sorry about that. Yeah, he was mentioned by Chronobound as well. I think...? Or perhaps it was actually after Mega Man was announced that Chronobound did his thing... not sure.

No am pretty sure Mega Man was really popular before his reveal. How I know this is because I kinda wanted Mega Man out because of my anti- 3rd party character bias. However, I began to respect Mega Man once I played as him and discovered that he's better than 80% of the other newcomers

 

[Burruni]

So, that Direct showed a new Chibi Robo...I know it means nothing but seeing him in the game would be neat

Legitimately, I always thought Chibi-Robo was a pretty significant New IP to get into Smash 5.

Basically the of the next game, a fairly comical and not so combative moveset. Clean everything!

3 International titles and 1 that was Japanese exclusive before today.

He... has potential, I just feel like he never really had much pull to him.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

So, that Direct showed a new Chibi Robo...I know it means nothing but seeing him in the game would be neat

The only thing I wanted to buy was the new Mario and Sonic Rio 2016 game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The only thing I wanted to buy was the new Mario and Sonic Rio 2016 game.

ur a kasueel skrudL0rdz

 

[Diddy Kong]

So anything else worthy of notice from the Direct?

 

[Burruni]

So anything else worthy of notice from the Direct?

Monster Hunter X
Chibi Robo
Mario & Sonic at the Rio Olympic Games.

......That's what I've heard in discussion.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You can fight Marth, and Anna isn't the shopkeeper

 

[Diddy Kong]

We get a new Monster Hunter literally everytime! What is this, the next Ca$h Cow franchise?

You can fight Marth, and Anna isn't the shopkeeper

Eh? FE14 stuff?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We get a new Monster Hunter literally everytime! What is this, the next Ca$h Cow franchise?

Eh? FE14 stuff?

Capcom constantly releasing stuff? Never happened before *mvc3 and sf4* Nope, never happened before

 

[Burruni]

We get a new Monster Hunter literally everytime! What is this, the next Ca$h Cow franchise?

Eh? FE14 stuff?

Dude.
Monster Hunter's been a cash cow since it came out. It just took until a port of 3 for Nintendo fans to be made aware. It's legitimately one of the best selling series in Japan.

You can fight Marth, and Anna isn't the shopkeeper

WHAT IS ANNA?! NEED TO KNOW.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

WHAT IS ANNA?! NEED TO KNOW.

Two options: A: Second game Anna doesn't appear in. B: Anna is a unit again

 

[Burruni]

Two options: A: Second game Anna doesn't appear in. B: Anna is a unit again

Judging by how much she was highlighted in 13, I HIGHLY doubt it's the former. The only reason she was absent from FE2 is because it had no story and it was before they had tutorial stuff for her to host like she was in a few of the GBA titles and I think Ike's games too.