Character Discussion Thread

[DustyPumpkin]

"If Sakurai had just flat-out said he was a stage boss. Instead, the man trolled us along with false hope, only to be betrayed by that trust and hope in the coldest manner possible."

To be fair, Sakurai probably thought this was clear enough that he was a boss.

If this appeared in ANY other section of the direct, I'd be able to give you the benefit of the doubt.

BUT IT WAS DURING DISCUSSION OF BOSSES, SOMETHING RIDLEY HAD ALREADY BEEN IN SMASH.

You can be upset about how your hopes were high and then they got cut down. You have right to be.

But don't blame the makers of the game for the expectations you raised yourself in face of the evidence given.

And it was pretty obvious Toon Link wasn't playable when we were showed the Spirit Tracks Stage and Toon Link was in the background and nothing was said on it for Months

Blaming the fans for misinterpreting him is ****ty marketing. Blaming your audience for not being hyped by the things you wanted them to be hyped by, ignoring that you were setting them up for disappointment is ****ty marketing. Doesn’t matter whether you thought it was obvious or not, it’s irrelevant. The fact is that people did think we maybe were being teased, and therefore Sakurai should’ve shut it down.

There was absolutely no reason to not show Ridley by skin.

 

[A Distant Demon]

No, I meant as a playable fighter. I'm not very happy about the Pyrosphere boss, either; but we need to make it clear we don't like the role he's in in any way possible; that's what gets attention from the devs.


The only reason discussion of Ridley is quarantined is because...well, we all know that Ridley discussion would just attract people trying to stir us up for the lolz with "lol he's 2 big" or somesuch.

We all probably wouldn't even be this scorned if A) Ridley wasn't one of the worst goddamn stage hazards I've ever seen in my goddamn life and B) If Sakurai had just flat-out said he was a stage boss. Instead, the man trolled us along with false hope, only to be betrayed by that trust and hope in the coldest manner possible. I don't care who you support, but if you were given false hope they were playable and had that hope crushed into pieces because of an arbitrary reasoning, I think you'd be pretty pissed off, too.
The constant reminder of Sakurai's bull reasoning from the Internet does nothing but cause more pain to a group who's already been the go-to laughing stock of Smash since Brawl.

It's a kick in the balls to a group who's been being kicked there since 2008. :/

it doesnt matter WHY its closed its the fact it IS closed.

no discussion means no support which means no "huge vocal support"

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

But don't blame the makers of the game for the expectations you raised yourself in face of the evidence given.

Sakurai had also just pulled another stunt prior to that with Zero Suit Samus, though; and the evidence we had looked pretty miserable for a boss at the time....And sorry that we didn't know at that point that we'd get a half-assed glitchy mess of a stage hazard for one of the most requested newcomers of all time. :/

There's also not much else to blame when the main developer deliberately words something to be ambigious to hype it, and then just goes "lol he's a hazard". It's, as I said before, a kick in the nuts to his fanbase.

It's like if Sakurai teased Waluigi as a fighter, and then went and said a while later "lol he's still an assist trophy". They deliberately hyped us for something and then crushed it.

It's not a matter of being pissed because of our expectations being high, it's a matter of Sakurai and co. ****ing with us like this that set us all off. Giving us hope and crushing it was the worst thing they could have done. We'd have been fine, if a little sad, with a POTD reveal.

But nope, he gets hyped and then is killed of all hope in a Nintendo Direct.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Sakurai had also just pulled another stunt prior to that with Zero Suit Samus, though; and the evidence we had looked pretty miserable for a boss at the time....And sorry that we didn't know at that point that we'd get a half-***** glitchy mess of a stage hazard for one of the most requested newcomers of all time. :/

There's also not much else to blame when the main developer deliberately words something to be ambigious to hype it, and then just goes "lol he's a hazard". It's, as I said before, a kick in the nuts to his fanbase.

It's like if Sakurai teased Waluigi as a fighter, and then want and said a while later "lol he's still an assist trophy". They deliberately hyped us for something and then crushed it.

It's not a matter of being pissed because of our expectations being high, it's a matter of Sakurai and co. ****ing with us like this that set us all off. Giving us hope and crushing it was the worst thing they could have done. We'd have been fine, if a little sad, with a POTD reveal.

But nope, he gets hyped and then is killed of all hope in a Nintendo Direct.

Well, it at least ended very quickly.

He didn't teased Ridley as a fighter though, which means comparison isn't exactly...forgot the word for it. He teased him as something. His actual role being teased didn't made much sense when he had same role (except more important and executed a lot better) in previous game, especially when it was revealed several months later as if it was something hype-worthy even though a giant "f*** you" boss on the stage is just as bad as random tripping and side-scrolling stages. Kinda like "Look! Its Mario! And he might be playable..." or "Look! Its Charizard! I wonder if Charmander can evolve into him...". That was what got us. Every other character got instantly deconfirmed (from Prince Sable and Takamaru to Ray Man, Dark Samus and Waluigi). But not Ridley.

I still think we went too far with shadow analisys stuff.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sakurai isn't going to change his philosophy on how he decides on newcomers, but he can change his mind on the types of characters he disagreed on before.

 

[Burruni]

And it was pretty obvious Toon Link wasn't playable when we were showed the Spirit Tracks Stage and Toon Link was in the background and nothing was said on it for Months

Blaming the fans for misinterpreting him is ****ty marketing. Blaming your audience for not being hyped by the things you wanted them to be hyped by, ignoring that you were setting them up for disappointment is ****ty marketing. Doesn’t matter whether you thought it was obvious or not, it’s irrelevant. The fact is that people did think we maybe were being teased, and therefore Sakurai should’ve shut it down.

There was absolutely no reason to not show Ridley by skin.

Sakurai had also just pulled another stunt prior to that with Zero Suit Samus, though; and the evidence we had looked pretty miserable for a boss at the time....And sorry that we didn't know at that point that we'd get a half-***** glitchy mess of a stage hazard for one of the most requested newcomers of all time. :/

There's also not much else to blame when the main developer deliberately words something to be ambigious to hype it, and then just goes "lol he's a hazard". It's, as I said before, a kick in the nuts to his fanbase.

It's like if Sakurai teased Waluigi as a fighter, and then want and said a while later "lol he's still an assist trophy". They deliberately hyped us for something and then crushed it.

It's not a matter of being pissed because of our expectations being high, it's a matter of Sakurai and co. ****ing with us like this that set us all off. Giving us hope and crushing it was the worst thing they could have done. We'd have been fine, if a little sad, with a POTD reveal.

But nope, he gets hyped and then is killed of all hope in a Nintendo Direct.

There was no reason to not make the deconfirmation firm. I will not argue this.

But all of Sakurai's teasing for fighters was done with veterans. Toon Link on Spirit Tracks was gaps in time and was the worst it got. Zero Suit Samus got joked about being cut and then IMMEDIATELY shown in the direct.

Meta Knight had his extra tease of a day due to the mask.

The closest thing that could be called teasing a Newcomer by Sakurai was making a note of the Statue of Palutena in the background of her temple and saying "She's watching over the battle." That or the decieving way the Pseudo-Palutena trophy was done. But that was both brought up and then shut down within seconds.

To say that the word choice was deliberately ambiguous is saying that Sakurai's plan was to tease Ridley as a fighter, and then say "lol he's a hazard." The other way to look at it is that he teased a boss fight and we got a boss fight.

Discerning which one is the truth of that is a matter of interpretation of Sakurai's words. And Sakurai's word state Ridley's a boss because making him a fighter never felt right to him. Odds favor that Ridley may have been considered as a fighter but never planned, much like Chrom.

He's not in Smash 4 as a fighter. He's not going to be in Smash 4 as a fighter. In Smash 5, if he keeps comparable popularity and imporance in Metroid, there's a strong chance for him especially if Sakurai isn't directing it.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

He's not in Smash 4 as a fighter. He's not going to be in Smash 4 as a fighter. In Smash 5, if he keeps comparable popularity and imporance in Metroid, there's a strong chance for him especially if Sakurai isn't directing it.

Yeah, but how long do we usually wait between Smash games these days? Smash 64 came out in 1999, Melee came out two years after that, and Brawl came out 8 years after Melee. Smash 4 came out 5 years after Brawl. We'll be waiting a minimum of five years for a new Smash game, if they take their time with it.

That's five or more years of rebuilding our support, trying to make Ridley popular again and hoping to all hell that Ridley doesn't get the shaft again. Five. years. at least. That's a long time, and it's just more time on the agonizingly long wait for a playable Ridley that we shouldn't have to struggle with. Not helping is the viciousness of people who don't want him in. :/

 

[A Distant Demon]

Yeah, but how long do we usually wait between Smash games these days? Smash 64 came out in 1999, Melee came out two years after that, and Brawl came out 8 years after Melee. Smash 4 came out 5 years after Brawl. We'll be waiting a minimum of five years for a new Smash game, if they take their time with it.

That's five or more years of rebuilding our support, trying to make Ridley popular again and hoping to all hell that Ridley doesn't get the shaft again. Five. years. at least. That's a long time, and it's just more time on the agonizingly long wait for a playable Ridley that we shouldn't have to struggle with. Not helping is the viciousness of people who don't want him in. :/

every fanbase has had to wait for their character. Ridley isnt special in that regard at all :/

well except the last part. Roy chrom and geno are some of the only characters with that problem. . .

 

[BaganSmashBros]

He's not in Smash 4 as a fighter. He's not going to be in Smash 4 as a fighter. In Smash 5, if he keeps comparable popularity and imporance in Metroid, there's a strong chance for him especially if Sakurai isn't directing it.

And thats something we must make sure remains there. I am sure it will at least get back into its pre-Brawl state if he will appear in some kind of new Metroid game and not as yet another boss that isn't even him like in Fusion.

Yeah, but how long do we usually wait between Smash games these days? Smash 64 came out in 1999, Melee came out two years after that, and Brawl came out 8 years after Melee. Smash 4 came out 5 years after Brawl. We'll be waiting a minimum of five years for a new Smash game, if they take their time with it.

That's five or more years of rebuilding our support, trying to make Ridley popular again and hoping to all hell that Ridley doesn't get the shaft again. Five. years. at least. That's a long time, and it's just more time on the agonizingly long wait for a playable Ridley that we shouldn't have to struggle with. Not helping is the viciousness of people who don't want him in. :/

And those five (or more) years also won't have a good effect on us. We already have numerous casualties thanks to Sakurai's word (and he can do no wrong, so, its obviously true and absolutely objectively correct).

well except the last part. Roy chrom and geno are some of the only characters with that problem. . .

And K.Rool to a lesser extent.

 

[A Distant Demon]

And thats something we must make sure remains there. I am sure it will at least get back into its pre-Brawl state if he will appear in some kind of new Metroid game and not as yet another boss that isn't even him like in Fusion.

And those five (or more) years also won't have a good effect on us. We already have numerous casualties thanks to Sakurai's word (and he can do no wrong, so, its obviously true and absolutely objectively correct).

And K.Rool to a lesser extent.

K rool has huge support. the haters are pretty much drowned out by the overwhelming support other than neogaf apparently

 

[Burruni]

every fanbase has had to wait for their character. Ridley isnt special in that regard at all :/

well except the last part. Roy chrom and geno are some of the only characters with that problem. . .

Bandana Dee because he's generic
Captain Toad because he's generic
Inklings because they're too new and they have costumes.
Daisy because she's just tomboy Peach.
Waluigi because he's just a stupid spin-off character.
King K. Rool because he's not important to DK anymore and Sakurai doesn't care about the series anyways.
Isaac because his series is dead.
Anyone from Mother or F-Zero because their series are dead.

Every character is going to come across detractors. The more predominant a character becomes in discussion, the more abundant rejectors will likely appear.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

K rool has huge support. the haters are pretty much drowned out by the overwhelming support other than neogaf apparently

Thats why i said "to a lesser extent".

Bandana Dee because he's generic
Captain Toad because he's generic
Inklings because they're too new and they have costumes.
Daisy because she's just tomboy Peach.
Waluigi because he's just a stupid spin-off character.
King K. Rool because he's not important to DK anymore and Sakurai doesn't care about the series anyways.
Isaac because his series is dead.
Anyone from Mother or F-Zero because their series are dead.

Every character is going to come across detractors. The more predominant a character becomes in discussion, the more abundant rejectors will likely appear.

Ridley still has it the worst out of them all. Especially after SSB4. Here is the real hate coming from them. Without any good reasons for it (every "argument" against Ridley is clearly subjective [Captain Toad is still part of a generic species, Inklings are too new, Daisy is mostly a tomboy Peach that appeared only once in main game, Waluigi is exclusive to spin-offs, F-Zero and Mother are dead and K.Rool is kinda forgotten in DK, but that one is because as far as i remember he wanted to try something new; neither of these depend on anyone's opinion] and our only real sin was over-analising that direct).

 

[Champ Gold]

Yeah, but how long do we usually wait between Smash games these days? Smash 64 came out in 1999, Melee came out two years after that, and Brawl came out 8 years after Melee. Smash 4 came out 5 years after Brawl. We'll be waiting a minimum of five years for a new Smash game, if they take their time with it.

That's five or more years of rebuilding our support, trying to make Ridley popular again and hoping to all hell that Ridley doesn't get the shaft again. Five. years. at least. That's a long time, and it's just more time on the agonizingly long wait for a playable Ridley that we shouldn't have to struggle with. Not helping is the viciousness of people who don't want him in. :/

That's not hard considering all Nintendo has to do is make another Metroid game that shows Ridley in a much smaller form or anything else. The support depends on the games.

K. Rool is the only exception to this rule because he was once the main antagonist to DK and somewhat Issac. Trust me here m8, I always wanted Mac in Brawl and he never got his shot (he was one of the first ATs shown) and I kinda just dwindled hope until Next Level Games pretty much save his franchise from being left in the dust. All Ridley needs a ONE new game. Same for other characters.

 

[aldelaro5]

Bandana Dee because he's generic
Captain Toad because he's generic
Inklings because they're too new and they have costumes.
Daisy because she's just tomboy Peach.
Waluigi because he's just a stupid spin-off character.
King K. Rool because he's not important to DK anymore and Sakurai doesn't care about the series anyways.
Isaac because his series is dead.
Anyone from Mother or F-Zero because their series are dead.

Every character is going to come across detractors. The more predominant a character becomes in discussion, the more abundant rejectors will likely appear.

this is weird because I don't think anyone would object on this being the case for Paper Mario, but I don't see him a lot in discussions.

Which bugs me a lot actually.....

 

[A Distant Demon]

this is weird because I don't think anyone would object on this being the case for Paper Mario, but I don't see him a lot in discussions.

Which bugs me a lot actually.....

do you mean no one would object to paper mario having detractors?
because if that is what what your implying i disagree. they exist yes but they shouldnt.

 

[Burruni]

this is weird because I don't think anyone would object on this being the case for Paper Mario, but I don't see him a lot in discussions.

Which bugs me a lot actually.....

Paper Mario doesn't really make waves in terms of huge support or very vocal detractors.

My entire grounds is that I've been less happy with the series latter half than the former and the most recent usages of a character outside of special cases (Mostly just ) have had significant impact on a character's moveset and such. I'm not vocally against him getting in or anything, I just don't support him.

You could really say overall he's just a WOODEN personality on discussion.

Get it. Paper's made from wood

 

[DustyPumpkin]

I just want to play as Ridley....

 

[aldelaro5]

do you mean no one would object to paper mario having detractors?
because if that is what what your implying i disagree. they exist yes but they shouldnt.

???

I'm a bit confused, the point was that they existed, you agree they exist while saying you disagree?

it doesn';t matter if they should exist or not because I realised that what really matters and doesn't help me is that they exist in the first place.

Paper Mario doesn't really make waves in terms of huge support or very vocal detractors.

My entire grounds is that I've been less happy with the series latter half than the former and the most recent usages of a character outside of special cases (Mostly just ) have had significant impact on a character's moveset and such. I'm not vocally against him getting in or anything, I just don't support him.

You could really say overall he's just a WOODEN personality on discussion.

Get it. Paper's made from wood

If I go online and do search on him, it is practically impossible to come into any discussions without the similar another mario logic. Sure, it's hard to find discussions int he first place, but my point is that it still hurt to have discussion about it in the first place.

Like, I'm actually really doubting if a new back to root game at E3 will change this honestly...I still feel it's not going to change much....

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Paper Mario doesn't really make waves in terms of huge support or very vocal detractors.

My entire grounds is that I've been less happy with the series latter half than the former and the most recent usages of a character outside of special cases (Mostly just ) have had significant impact on a character's moveset and such. I'm not vocally against him getting in or anything, I just don't support him.

Well, things can also be completly made up if required.

You could really say overall he's just a WOODEN personality on discussion.

Get it. Paper's made from wood

This pun is so bad that it cuts my eyes.

I just want to play as Ridley....

But of course you can't. Ridley's most deserved and the only right role is a glorified punching bag. Just be happy with what you've got, no matter how "good" it is, and don't even dare to complain.

 

[Arcadenik]

That's not hard considering all Nintendo has to do is make another Metroid game that shows Ridley in a much smaller form or anything else. The support depends on the games.

K. Rool is the only exception to this rule because he was once the main antagonist to DK and somewhat Issac. Trust me here m8, I always wanted Mac in Brawl and he never got his shot (he was one of the first ATs shown) and I kinda just dwindled hope until Next Level Games pretty much save his franchise from being left in the dust. All Ridley needs a ONE new game. Same for other characters.

That's why I get excited every time Nintendo does something significant with Toad...

2009 - New Super Mario Bros. Wii
2012 - New Super Mario Bros. U
2013 - Super Mario 3D World
2014 - Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
2015 - Toad amiibo (he and the Inklings are the only non-Smash characters with amiibos)

I am always hoping for Nintendo to keep Toad in the spotlight long enough for him to get in Smash.

Only if the Pokemon Company would do the same for Meowth in the games... or even make Meowth's Party a real game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sakurai isn't going to change his philosophy on how he decides on newcomers, but he can change his mind on the types of characters he disagreed on before.

Pretty sure that Sakurai had a point about "If the character doesn't fit Smash, they won't be playable" and added Villager. Not saying Sakurai would change his mind about Ridley, but your post is rather untrue

 

[aldelaro5]

Well, things can also be completly made up if required.

This pun is so bad that it cuts my eyes.

But of course you can't. Ridley's most deserved and the only right role is a glorified punching bag. Just be happy with what you've got, no matter how "good" it is, and don't even dare to complain.

honestly, given its potential, it won't require much made up moves. And even if they do have made up stuff, the potential is again there.

But tbh, the Sticker star argument is to me the only legitimate one against him. Even though I have a counter for it, the truth is ultimately, I am more worried of the series state myself.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Pretty sure that Sakurai had a point about "If the character doesn't fit Smash, they won't be playable" and added Villager. Not saying Sakurai would change his mind about Ridley, but your post is rather untrue

read the 2nd half

"he CAN change his mind on the types of characters he disagreed on before."

there is no 't at the end of can

 

[DustyPumpkin]

But of course you can't. Ridley's most deserved and the only right role is a glorified punching bag. Just be happy with what you've got, no matter how "good" it is, and don't even dare to complain.

I am not giving up, I will keep such a Grudge on this I'll be coming out the TV

That's why I get excited every time Nintendo does something significant with Toad...

2009 - New Super Mario Bros. Wii
2012 - New Super Mario Bros. U
2013 - Super Mario 3D World
2014 - Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
2015 - Toad amiibo (he and the Inklings are the only non-Smash characters with amiibos)

I am always hoping for Nintendo to keep Toad in the spotlight long enough for him to get in Smash.

Only if the Pokemon Company would do the same for Meowth in the games... or even make Meowth's Party a real game.

Actually Speaking of Pokemon and Amiibo's what is Game Freak's Deal with Pokemon Amiibo not being used on anything other than Smash

 

[Cutie Gwen]

read the 2nd half

"he CAN change his mind on the types of characters he disagreed on before."

there is no 't at the end of can

Villager isn't really a type. Not one I can think of anyway.
Inb4 Normal/Fighting

 

[A Distant Demon]

Villager isn't really a type. Not one I can think of anyway.
Inb4 Normal/Fighting

"peaceful, non-fighter"

 

[Arcadenik]

Actually Speaking of Pokemon and Amiibo's what is Game Freak's Deal with Pokemon Amiibo not being used on anything other than Smash

They are used on Hyrule Warriors, Captain Toad, and Mario Party 10.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They are used on Hyrule Warriors, Captain Toad, and Mario Party 10.

Pretty sure they don't do anything unique

Actually Speaking of Pokemon and Amiibo's what is Game Freak's Deal with Pokemon Amiibo not being used on anything other than Smash

Because they're too busy working on the Wii U version of Pokken Tournament that'll be released worldwide with over 100 unique fighters, majority being fan favourites. PLZ

 

[DustyPumpkin]

They are used on Hyrule Warriors, Captain Toad, and Mario Party 10.

Sorry lemme re-phrase that
" what is Game Freak's Deal with Pokemon Amiibo not being used for Pokemon related things other than Smash, there's No Mario Kart Costumes and none of them are going to be used in Yoshi's Woolly World either despite everyone else being used*

 

[BKupa666]

Re: continuing to support Ridley, it makes all the sense in the world to send in votes...just without the expectation that he'll become DLC.

What if, for example, Sakurai changed his mind (with or without a new, smaller Ridley form in a new game), but saw diminished support for the character and thought "Guess the fans are okay with him being a submissive punching bag"? That wouldn't be fun, now.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Re: continuing to support Ridley, it makes all the sense in the world to send in votes...just without the expectation that he'll become DLC.

What if, for example, Sakurai changed his mind (with or without a new, smaller Ridley form in a new game), but saw diminished support for the character and thought "Guess the fans are okay with him being a submissive punching bag"? That wouldn't be fun, now.

This. Support him, but without expecting him as you did before and without shadow analisys bulls**t.

Yeah. That would suc- no. It would be f***ing disgusting.

 

[Arcadenik]

Re: continuing to support Ridley, it makes all the sense in the world to send in votes...just without the expectation that he'll become DLC.

What if, for example, Sakurai changed his mind (with or without a new, smaller Ridley form in a new game), but saw diminished support for the character and thought "Guess the fans are okay with him being a submissive punching bag"? That wouldn't be fun, now.

That's exactly what I am doing for Meowth. I know he won't be DLC in SSB4 since he is already a Pokeball summon. I am encouraging people to vote for Meowth to get him in SSB5.

 

[memoryman3]

???

I'm a bit confused, the point was that they existed, you agree they exist while saying you disagree?

it doesn';t matter if they should exist or not because I realised that what really matters and doesn't help me is that they exist in the first place.


If I go online and do search on him, it is practically impossible to come into any discussions without the similar another mario logic. Sure, it's hard to find discussions int he first place, but my point is that it still hurt to have discussion about it in the first place.

Like, I'm actually really doubting if a new back to root game at E3 will change this honestly...I still feel it's not going to change much....

Paper Mario has one huge detractor going against him. Mario and Dr. Mario.

 

[aldelaro5]

Paper Mario has one huge detractor going against him. Mario and Dr. Mario.

?

It;s not.

it seriously chnages nothing. What I'm telling is a lot claim that it makes no sense to not have him because of these 2, the reality is it doesn't really.

It's not the detractor....that argument btw has really weird logic behind....

 

[A Distant Demon]

paper mario could be unique from mario ridiculously easy

even then it's mario. you know the mascot?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

paper mario could be unique from mario ridiculously easy

even then it's mario. you know the mascot?

The mascot so far above anyone else that it is ridicolous (around 807,3722 million when even pokemon have 270.8 million and Wii whatevever games have around 200 million). Another reason why "Mario is overrepped" makes no sense.

 

[Burruni]

Thing Paper Mario has that don't.

1. Hammer
2. Ground Pound
3. Spin Dash (Not THAT kind )
4. Assistants
5. Bombs
6. Transforming ability into: Boat, Plane, Roll, and 2D Sliver.

And that's just off the top of my head....

 

[aldelaro5]

paper mario could be unique from mario ridiculously easy

even then it's mario. you know the mascot?

well, the thing that I found the most overlooked is how people seems to just say that because he's mario he simply adds nothing to the game. And that's actually even if you get the potential, i saw some saying it even if they knew it.

While in reality, people should look at what the potential forms overall. You can clearly rep the whole subset with just him and the subset itself is your addition, not jsut the character. if I was just looking at the character and nothing else surrounding him, I would actually agree, but it would be an incomplete overview because smash is mroe than just the characters....

That is the same thing as saying that toon link adds nothing, the problem is it do because without him, there's not much representation of the toon style of zelda which became distinctive on its own.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Thing Paper Mario has that don't.

1. Hammer
2. Ground Pound
3. Spin Dash (Not THAT kind )
4. Assistants
5. Bombs
6. Transforming ability into: Boat, Plane, Roll, and 2D Sliver.

And that's just off the top of my head....

Technically, Mario has both a hammer (mostly in RPGs) and a ground pound (many 3D games and some of the 2D games), but not in Smash.

 

[aldelaro5]

Thing Paper Mario has that don't.

1. Hammer
2. Ground Pound
3. Spin Dash (Not THAT kind )
4. Assistants
5. Bombs
6. Transforming ability into: Boat, Plane, Roll, and 2D Sliver.

And that's just off the top of my head....

actually, hammer isn't really exclusive, but I will agree he;s the most known to have it out of every mario.

Also, the 2d silver you mention reminds me something. I know I really don't like SS, but I saw someone saying an alt idea of him being in a shiny texture from the game and I found the idea awesome