Character Discussion Thread

[Curious Villager]

I think it would have been Mewtwo, as he would probably get completed instead.

I thought Jigglypuff mainly because she was the only veteran not included into the story and they both can more or less do the same thing during that scene (rolling into his wings) And because I can see Sakurai doing such a thing.

But yeah, I forgot about Mewtwo and the rest of the "Forbidden Seven". Which is ironic because I was just discussing that in another thread.... :T

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

I wonder if before Sonic's inclusion. Jigglypuff was meant to be the one to break Tabuu's wings.....

that would've been an Awesome twist!

Obviously the Mii Fighters were planned to be in Smash 4 from the start, and I love them and am super glad they're here and don't want them to leave,
But clearly they had a different development cycle to the rest of the characters to be added in, and since the comparisons are more direct and parallel than, say, a game mode, given the assets they're made of,
How many characters could they fit in the playable roster if they didn't decide to add the Mii Fighters?

Developmentally they are 3 different characters with one spot on the selection screen.
each Mii class has it's own standard moveset thus standard animation set that comes consistent across each fighter in a class, so 3 packs of standard animation.
Each has 12 unique special moves, totaling to 36.
Each has 7 costumes, one for each gender which is 14 bodies for each class plus 12 possible Mii colors on each,
which totals to 42 bodies, 504 textures for the Mii Fighters
And each is generated, thus scaled in size, speed and power, proportionally to the size of the original Mii.
Then the heads, which come as standard Mii assembly programming, plus the inert headgear.

So
3 standard movesets
36 special moves
42 bodies to map the animation to,
504 textures to map to the bodies

How many characters could the dev team make with these assets clear?

 

[Burruni]

Obviously the Mii Fighters were planned to be in Smash 4 from the start, and I love them and am super glad they're here and don't want them to leave,
But clearly they had a different development cycle to the rest of the characters to be added in, and since the comparisons are more direct and parallel than, say, a game mode, given the assets they're made of,
How many characters could they fit in the playable roster if they didn't decide to add the Mii Fighters?

Well, since the Miis are the Fighting Team for the game (so thus their models and most basic animations were done)
And how many of their moves are generic or a clone from another fighter's....

One.

 

[StormC]

See this is Exactly the kind of ungratefulness I'm talking about.

Why does someone have to be "grateful" when they're criticizing a product that they're putting money down for?

 

[PK_Knee]

Obviously the Mii Fighters were planned to be in Smash 4 from the start, and I love them and am super glad they're here and don't want them to leave,
But clearly they had a different development cycle to the rest of the characters to be added in, and since the comparisons are more direct and parallel than, say, a game mode, given the assets they're made of,
How many characters could they fit in the playable roster if they didn't decide to add the Mii Fighters?

The Mii Fighters make customisation good, and makes it worth while.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Well, since the Miis are the Fighting Team for the game (so thus their models and most basic animations were done)
And how many of their moves are generic or a clone from another fighter's....

One.

Actually that's a Chicken-and-Egg thing of which came first, Fighting Mii Team or Mii Fighters.

With the work that went into Mii Fighters I'm sure they came first and the Fighting Mii Team was a convenient way to use them.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Why does someone have to be "grateful" when they're criticizing a product that they're putting money down for?

KO

I'm done, you win, goodnight everybody, I'm out.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

The Mii Fighters make customisation good, and makes it worth while.

Sigh I know! <3 they're like my favorite addition to Smash 4!
A lot of people object to their inclusion just because it sounds like they steal a spot from someone else or that they're not "relevant game characters".
But Miis are just as relevant to Nintendo, than anyone else on the roster, if not more! At the time of this reply, Wii Sports is The top selling game of all time behind Tetris. The Mii Fighters represent Nintendo hardware's and several games from the Wii to the 3DS to the Wii U to the New 3DS and everything in between.

 

[Burruni]

Actually that's a Chicken-and-Egg thing of which came first, Fighting Mii Team or Mii Fighters.

With the work that went into Mii Fighters I'm sure they came first and the Fighting Mii Team was a convenient way to use them.

I meant that given how "generic" the moves were for Mii Fighters and the model/animations work for a fair amount of the works is shared between the playable Mii Fighters and Fighting Mii team, the amount of work saved by not doing 3 playable Mii Fighters but still having to program a Fighting Multi Man Team would at best be transferable for one fighter.

 

[PK_Knee]

Sigh I know! <3 they're like my favorite addition to Smash 4!
A lot of people object to their inclusion just because it sounds like they steal a spot from someone else or that they're not "relevant game characters".
But Miis are just as relevant to Nintendo, than anyone else on the roster, if not more! At the time of this reply, Wii Sports is The top selling game of all time behind Tetris. The Mii Fighters represent Nintendo hardware's and several games from the Wii to the 3DS to the Wii U to the New 3DS and everything in between.

Remember when people said they could never get in? lol scrubz...

 

[Deleted member]

How would you imagine the SSE with 4's newcomers ?
Which groups would you create with them ?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I like the Miis for the customization stuff. I'll never get why Palutena of all characters gets unique customs though...Isaac and Ray MKIII should too if DLC fighters do end up getting customs in the future. Then there's Jigglypuff who's got useless customs

 

[Wintropy]

I like the Miis for the customization stuff. I'll never get why Palutena of all characters gets unique customs though...Isaac and Ray MKIII should too if DLC fighters do end up getting customs in the future. Then there's Jigglypuff who's got useless customs

It's a reference to Uprising and its in-depth Powers system.

That and it's her "newcomer mechanic", which most of the (non-clone) newcomers have in some way.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, that could have easily been given to Shulk instead with his arts being specials instead of his stat gimmick. Palutena having unique customs is definitely a great thing

It's a reference to Uprising and its in-depth Powers system.

That and it's her "newcomer mechanic", which most of the (non-clone) newcomers have in some way.

 

[PK_Knee]

It's a reference to Uprising and its in-depth Powers system.

That and it's her "newcomer mechanic", which most of the (non-clone) newcomers have in some way.

The newcomers hould get the same treatment as veterans... and don't even get me started on how 3rd party characters are treated.

 

[Burruni]

I like the Miis for the customization stuff. I'll never get why Palutena of all characters gets unique customs though...Isaac and Ray MKIII should too if DLC fighters do end up getting customs in the future. Then there's Jigglypuff who's got useless customs

, the FACE of unlimited powers, has almost as bad of customs as .

And people call Sakurai Bias.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

, the FACE of unlimited powers, has almost as bad of customs as .

And people call Sakurai Bias.

Jump Inhale is great tho.
Sakurai doesn't seem to care about modern Kirby to

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

I meant that given how "generic" the moves were for Mii Fighters and the model/animations work for a fair amount of the works is shared between the playable Mii Fighters and Fighting Mii team, the amount of work saved by not doing 3 playable Mii Fighters but still having to program a Fighting Multi Man Team would at best be transferable for one fighter.

But that's just it, there's way more stuff they put into Mii Fighters that they didn't for Fighting Miis: entrances, using items, taunting, victory screens, Palutena's guidence, programing the selection image generator, just to name a few.

To make a Fighting Polygon, Wire Frame, or Alloy amounted to making a model and mapping an existing characters moveset to it, and turning off the use of items and special moves.

To turn a Mii Fighter into a Fighting Mii amounts to making 1 more costume for onto each class, implementing a generator that puts a selection of 4 random Mii heads onto these costumes and then setting them to Fighting Team mode (turning off the use of special moves and items).

It's just more logical to make and build the 3 Mii Fighters first and then making a Fighting Team setting for them.
Also the "genericness" is intentional and isn't a factor when it comes to move creation.

And I reread your comment, you have a point: If they still made the Fighting Mii Team without making the playable Miis it does sound like 1 character could fit.
However when you consider what they made 36 unique special moves, built 42 bodies to map the animation to, and 504 textures to map to the bodies, that sounds like more than just one character to me. But hey, that's what makes this a forum thread, amirite?

 

[PK_Knee]

Jump Inhale is great tho.
Sakurai doesn't seem to care about modern Kirby to

The Wave cutter is a great custom as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How would you imagine the SSE with 4's newcomers ?
Which groups would you create with them ?

I dunno. i'd have to make a story mode to find out. (I'm making one, but for my own roster, so it wouldn't be accurate.)

 

[Burruni]

I dunno. i'd have to make a story mode to find out. (I'm making one, but for my own roster, so it wouldn't be accurate.)

If I did that, it would effectively be the villans' tale.
and against the world.

And don't try to tell me Jigglypuff isn't evil.

I won't listen.

She's a Pop Idol, and thus automatically the most evil thing in Smash Bros.

Edit:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If I did that, it would effectively be the villans' tale.
and against the world.

And don't try to tell me Jigglypuff isn't evil.

I won't listen.

She's a Pop Idol, and thus automatically the most evil thing in Smash Bros.

She draws dongs on people when they sleep, that's what proves she's more evil than Ganondorf

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Remember when people said they could never get in? lol scrubz...

People thought the Miis couldn't get in the roster on a technical level because they'd just be 1 normal fighter with a changeable face. But Sakurai has a little more imagination that that...
(why isn't there a Sakurai emoticon?)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If I did that, it would effectively be the villans' tale.
and against the world.

And don't try to tell me Jigglypuff isn't evil.

I won't listen.

She's a Pop Idol, and thus automatically the most evil thing in Smash Bros.

You forgot the most evil beings of them all... and

 

[Burruni]

You forgot the most evil beings of them all... and

No.
Villager is Chaotic Neutral. He takes down anyone who he will cross paths with good or evil.

WFT is the good that the country needs, but not the one it wants.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

I like the Miis for the customization stuff. I'll never get why Palutena of all characters gets unique customs though...Isaac and Ray MKIII should too if DLC fighters do end up getting customs in the future. Then there's Jigglypuff who's got useless customs

I really am curious as to why Mewtwo doesn't come with any custom moves.
Sure it'd be a big deal to give him 36 unique ones, but even the lazy custom moves amount to a "faster but weaker" and "slower but stronger" stat change.

 

[Burruni]

I really am curious as to why Mewtwo doesn't come with any custom moves.
Sure it'd be a big deal to give him 36 unique ones, but even the lazy custom moves amount to a "faster but weaker" and "slower but stronger" stat change.

He has some, but they crash the game and can only be accessed with a bit of hacking.
We don't exactly know what's going on about it.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

If I did that, it would effectively be the villans' tale.
and against the world.

And don't try to tell me Jigglypuff isn't evil.

I won't listen.

She's a Pop Idol, and thus automatically the most evil thing in Smash Bros.

Edit:

I'll never look at Jigglypuff's Final Smash the same way again...

 

[PK_Knee]

Jigglypuff and WFT killed my family. ;-;

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He has some, but they crash the game and can only be accessed with a bit of hacking.
We don't exactly know what's going on about it.

They fixed the glitch for that.

 

[Burruni]

They fixed the glitch for that.

To access it or that they crash the game?
I've not heard much about it.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

He has some, but they crash the game and can only be accessed with a bit of hacking.
We don't exactly know what's going on about it.

I hope they fix this someday, like for the big patch when Lucas comes back.
Lucas should have custom moves too, even if they affect his moves the way Ness's does, there's a lot that can be done
Like what if they switched the effects of PK Freeze to PK Dark or PK Rest for example

 

[Zzuxon]

Here is my problem with Mii fighters.
It isn't that they are Miis. Miis are a real nintendo all star, and very crucial to the company's history.

My problem is that they aren't Miis. Nothing they do has anything to do with anything Miis do in Mii games. It's clear that they went OUT OF THEIR WAY to distance Mii Fighters from actual Miis.
Mii Fighters aren't Miis, they are a half-baked create your own character engine that uses Miis to make its job easier.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here is my problem with Mii fighters.
It isn't that they are Miis. Miis are a real nintendo all star, and very crucial to the company's history.

My problem is that they aren't Miis. Nothing they do has anything to do with anything Miis do in Mii games. It's clear that they went OUT OF THEIR WAY to distance Mii Fighters from actual Miis.
Mii Fighters aren't Miis, they are a half-baked create your own character engine that uses Miis to make its job easier.

Actually, a reason people didn't want Miis was because of how they'd likely be sport themed

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To access it or that they crash the game?
I've not heard much about it.

To access them

 

[Zzuxon]

Actually, a reason people didn't want Miis was because of how they'd likely be sport themed

I'm aware that was a common criticism. It is also a dumb criticism, any character can be given an interesting moveset.
Plus, Miis have way more to draw from than sports. I've made most of a Mii moveset, and it only has 4 moves from Wii Sports(Jab, ftilt, upsmash, side b).

 

[JaidynReiman]

Here is my problem with Mii fighters.
It isn't that they are Miis. Miis are a real nintendo all star, and very crucial to the company's history.

My problem is that they aren't Miis. Nothing they do has anything to do with anything Miis do in Mii games. It's clear that they went OUT OF THEIR WAY to distance Mii Fighters from actual Miis.
Mii Fighters aren't Miis, they are a half-baked create your own character engine that uses Miis to make its job easier.

I completely and totally disagree.


The entire point of Mii is to be able to play as yourself, or whoever you create, in whatever context is available to them. In various sports games, they do sports, or they do racing in Mario Kart.


In Smash Bros., they were designed TO FIGHT. I think this portrayal is the perfect portrayal of them. If you think Mii's are a "Nintendo all-star," you're wrong. Mii's aren't characters. They're you. They're whoever you make them out to be. Mii's are always designed to work in whatever game they are available in, and Smash is no exception.


Mii's right now are passable to me. I'd loathe their inclusion if they just used moves from sports games, though. That completely ruins the point of having Mii's to begin with. They're SUPPOSED TO BE A CUSTOMIZATION OPTION. That's the whole damn point.

 

[Burruni]

Actually, a reason people didn't want Miis was because of how they'd likely be sport themed

I actually made a Mii Moveset and the entire thing was based around Nintendo Hardware.

To just give the specials...

Neutral B was a Vitrual Boy VR "beam" like the Copy ability in Kirby Super Star.
Side B was chucking a Wiimote because of not having the wrist strap
Down B was setting down a 3ds, using the move again while on a platform would warp you back to the 3ds with REAL 3D SCREEEN but would consume the 3ds.
Up B was a heli-pack powered by spinning the control stick of an n64 controller. Edit: This IRONICALLY basically became the move for , because my idea was having the Mii wave off a smoking hand, tiring out after a certain bit of time.

Final Smash was the ULTIMATE windbox move: Blowing out the dust from an NES Cartridge. We're talking Big Bad Wolf tier Huff, Puff, and BLOWWWWWWWWWWWW.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I actually made a Mii Moveset and the entire thing was based around Nintendo Hardware.

To just give the specials...

Neutral B was a Vitrual Boy VR "beam" like the Copy ability in Kirby Super Star.
Side B was chucking a Wiimote because of not having the wrist strap
Down B was setting down a 3ds, using the move again while on a platform would warp you back to the 3ds with REAL 3D SCREEEN but would consume the 3ds.
Up B was a heli-pack powered by spinning the control stick of an n64 controller.

Final Smash was the ULTIMATE windbox move: Blowing out the dust from an NES Cartridge. We're talking Big Bad Wolf tier Huff, Puff, and BLOWWWWWWWWWWWW.

Nintendo should pull a Sonic Allstars Racing then and make their own AGES thing for such a moveset

 

[Burruni]

Nintendo should pull a Sonic Allstars Racing then and make their own AGES thing for such a moveset

That's what Mario Kart 9 is going to be. We all know it.