Character Discussion Thread

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah see? that's another thing, cut content. All cut content gets cut for a reason and I'm sure 100% of the cut content for Smash 4 was only cut because it couldn't be finished in time for release.
Chances are if all the AT's were set to implemented in the game as playable characters, the bulk of them would wind up cut completely too in this same way.
Like how Diddy Kong is completely absent from Melee outside of one mention on Dixie Kong's trophy.
Bowser Jr. was nearly cut too but they Juust managed to finish him and the Koopalings on time.
I'm also sure the only reason Dr.Mario was released in Smash 4 before Mewtwo was is Just because they Could finish him on time.

The reason being because the budget runs out. Mewtwo and Roy were nearly finished iirc in Brawl, why else would they be cut?

 

[Burruni]

The reason being because the budget runs out. Mewtwo and Roy were nearly finished iirc in Brawl, why else would they be cut?

Sonic.
Sonic caused a major shift of the production team's efforts towards the end of the work span of the game and caused the game to get delayed YET again.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh, I'll keep that in mind, I am just learning here.

Just try not to double post or post one word comments (or single images) and things will go just fine.
Oh and welcome to Smashboards by the way. c:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sonic.
Sonic caused a major shift of the production team's efforts towards the end of the work span of the game and caused the game to get delayed YET again.

Ergo, Sonic used up more of the budget

 

[PK_Knee]

Just try not to double post or post one word comments (or single images) and things will go just fine.
Oh and welcome to Smashboards by the way. c:

Thanks for the warm welcome guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[JaidynReiman]

While I'm miffed over characters being ATs, I can't complain since they are in game is some part not taken out and forgotten about


see:Issac and Ray


Besides most of those ATs I wouldn't call B-raated because Sakurai would put them in the roster with fan request. There are a lot of B-rated franchises on the roster. It's just st that they are A-rated on the roster

Actually, many of the characters were heavily fan-requested. Waluigi especially was noted, and was still denied. Sakurai directly teases this notion in Waluigi's reveal. This also goes for Ridley. Skull Kid and Midna were also requested quite highly and were popular requests pre-speculation. (Ghirahim support did start to go up later on.)

 

[Champ Gold]

Brawl got delayed TWICE. It's was gonna get released with Mario Galaxy.

Thanks to SSE being a massive timesink no one cares to play again and was mostly cared for cutscene interactions.

And then for the second time. Smash 4 just cut the BS out and had a 2 and a half year development cycle. Plus while most people might not like the idea, DLC is an major factor in fixing the small development window. Sakurai said he was adding extra modes and hopefully will rectify these problems.

 

[Kenith]

Brawl got delayed TWICE. It's was gonna get released with Mario Galaxy.

Thanks to SSE being a massive timesink no one cares to play again and was mostly cared for cutscene interactions.

And then for the second time. Smash 4 just cut the BS out and had a 2 and a half year development cycle. Plus while most people might not like the idea, DLC is an major factor in fixing the small development window. Sakurai said he was adding extra modes and hopefully will rectify these problems.

Except that even without delays Brawl still had a two year development cycle. It was started on in 2005.

 

[PK_Knee]

I just spiked a person on my friend list with Mii Swordfighters Dair, I taste salt.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

1) It's not "getting crazy." The Forbidden 7 data is indication enough that there were fighters partially in the works and at least a few of them were cut due to time more than any other factor (Namely, ). In one of the earliest interviews about Smash 4, Sakurai said that the team was not going to go through the heavy amount of work and time to make another SubSpace-like story mode. If there was a story mode that wasn't as massive in time and work on par of Subspace, it is not a crazy conclusion that these unfinished projects would have been able to see the light of day.

You made your point.

2) & were promoted alternate costumes. Does that stop what they exist as being an inaccurate or incomplete representation of who they are as characters in their incarnation as a fighter? No. It means that they are in a LESS inaccurate/incomplete spot by having the differentiation that they do have.

MOST people are not disregarding or ignoring what went into making Asssist Trophies. The present dissent over the matter is namely over the fact that if the work for them was not done for such complex items (which is what they effectively are,) we could have seen more work done for some characters present on the roster and could have seen more newcomers. Possibly some of those assist trophies being amongst them.

In speculation, people will approach many "what if" situations. Some pose how much of a better product the WiiU version could have been if the 3DS version wasn't attempted (even though it was big financial gain for Nintendo).

Yes. Just yes.
No need to put words into my mouth so you have more this to disagree with.
While Most people are not disregarding or ignoring what went into making Assist Trophies, there's a vocal minority swaying popular opinion into doing so.
But thank you for not being one of these people. In fact I commend and side with you for not being these people.

As someone who has the 3DS version because he can't afford a Wii U, but also mained Ice Climbers in Melee and Brawl, Super Smash Bros for 3DS is a bit off a bittersweet affair for me.

But outside of the power of the Smash Bros Fighter Ballot, there are things about Smash 4 that need to be faced and come to terms with.

See with eyes unclouded by hate, and look toward the future with enthusiastic fandom not rage fueled fandumb.
Who knows, maybe Everyone we wanted to be playable in Smash 4'll get a roster spot in Smash 5
Who knows what the NX could do to support this!

 

[PK_Knee]

You made your point.


Yes. Just yes.
No need to put words into my mouth so you have more this to disagree with.
While Most people are not disregarding or ignoring what went into making Assist Trophies, there's a vocal minority swaying popular opinion into doing so.
But thank you for not being one of these people. In fact I commend and side with you for not being these people.

As someone who has the 3DS version because he can't afford a Wii U, but also mained Ice Climbers in Melee and Brawl, Super Smash Bros for 3DS is a bit off a bittersweet affair for me.

But outside of the power of the Smash Bros Fighter Ballot, there are things about Smash 4 that need to be faced and come to terms with.

See with eyes unclouded by hate, and look toward the future with enthusiastic fandom not rage fueled fandumb.
Who knows, maybe Everyone we wanted to be playable in Smash 4'll get a roster spot in Smash 5
Who knows what the NX could do to support this!

Hmm, you make a nice point, but I'm sure they will pull somthing like an Alfozo.... Maybe Aslhey's little monster could become the assist trophy... a wild guess.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

The reason being because the budget runs out. Mewtwo and Roy were nearly finished iirc in Brawl, why else would they be cut?

This is a shrug answer but: time and placement with the rest of the roster?
I repeat that's just a shrug.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This is a shrug answer but: time and placement with the rest of the roster?
I repeat that's just a shrug.

Time should never be an issue and placement is dunmb as Mewtwo's addition screws up the roster here

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Hmm, you make a nice point, but I'm sure they will pull somthing like an Alfozo.... Maybe Aslhey's little monster could become the assist trophy... a wild guess.

Who knows, that doesn't sound so bad.
Also welcome to Smash Boards!

It's kinda hilarious how everyone's greeting you amidst everything else going on right now. I love it!

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't see a vote for an "unlikely" character being unproductive, as long as the word is heard by Sakurai with a noticeable amount of votes, he'll consider the character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't see a vote for an "unlikely" character being unproductive, as long as the word is heard by Sakurai with a noticeable amount of votes, he'll consider the character.

"Prince Sable has 1 vote? Hmm, I'll consider him next time"

 

[Burruni]

I don't see a vote for an "unlikely" character being unproductive, as long as the word is heard by Sakurai with a noticeable amount of votes, he'll consider the character.

Unrelated but Blue you've gotten a great new icon.

Now if it got Young Link's hat on the leaf and Bayonetta's hair it would encompass what we know and love from you xD

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Thanks to SSE being a massive timesink no one cares to play again and was mostly cared for cutscene interactions.
.

As someone who beat Subspace Emmisary 100% and on Intense, I beg to differ.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

As someone who beat Subspace Emmisary 100% and on Intense, I beg to differ.

1 person =\= the whole fanbase. The majority of fans think SSE took too long

 

[PK_Knee]

Who knows, that doesn't sound so bad.
Also welcome to Smash Boards!

It's kinda hilarious how everyone's greeting you amidst everything else going on right now. I love it!

It is actually kinda funny. "I want Minda in sm- Oh, hey nice to meet you!"

 

[A Distant Demon]

Unrelated but Blue you've gotten a great new icon.

Now if it got Young Link's hat on the leaf and Bayonetta's hair it would encompass what we know and love from you xD

And kawashima's . . .numbers?

1 person =\= the whole fanbase. The majority of fans think SSE took too long

I still love SSE.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Thank @vaanrose for the icon, it was a birthday gif. :}

 

[Champ Gold]

Actually, many of the characters were heavily fan-requested. Waluigi especially was noted, and was still denied. Sakurai directly teases this notion in Waluigi's reveal. This also goes for Ridley. Skull Kid and Midna were also requested quite highly and were popular requests pre-speculation. (Ghirahim support did start to go up later on.)

I'm not gonna be that guy pretty much crapping on request but man I was never feeling Skull Kid (who did jack all but troll you during MM and bringing the moon down)and Midna. Waluigi was just the usual "we got nothing to pull from aside from sports and party games" and Peach already filled that niche of using the sports games with her Foward smash. Ridley was always I figured was design problems with his skeletal animation, he just fits more as a boss and how his Other M design was absolutely hot trash and I believe he would be playable if his Brawl deign got in. But that's just me.

Except that even without delays Brawl still had a two year development cycle. It was started on in 2005.

Yeah but Smash 4's focused more on characters moreso considering how unique the newcomers are. Plus Brawl would have had the same problems and complaints if SSE wasn't a thing. I doubt we would have a much bigger roster but we might could have saved Mewtwo and Roy.

Plus which was a bigger detriment SSE for Brawl or 3DS for Smash 4?

 

[Kenith]

Yeah but Smash 4's focused more on characters moreso considering how unique the newcomers are. Plus Brawl would have had the same problems and complaints if SSE wasn't a thing. I doubt we would have a much bigger roster but we might could have saved Mewtwo and Roy.
Plus which was a bigger detriment SSE for Brawl or 3DS for Smash 4?

Honestly? I'm going to say 3DS for Smash 4. Because at least with the Subspace Emissary Brawl feels like a completely fleshed out game...whereas Smash 4, no matter which version, just feels incomplete to me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Pus which was a bigger detriment SSE for Brawl or 3DS for Smash 4?

3DS by far, SSE is at least something different, with fun bosses, though it can drag on a bit, especially that sodding maze...3DS may have split the transforming characters, but that also means we lost Squirtle and Ivysaur, and most important of all, Ice Climbers. Now that I think about it 3DS version not existing also means more money and work would have gotten in the Wii U version and more sales for the Wii U

 

[Burruni]

I'm not gonna be that guy pretty much crapping on request but man I was never feeling Skull Kid (who did jack all but troll you during MM and bringing the moon down)and Midna. Waluigi was just the usual "we got nothing to pull from aside from sports and party games" and Peach already filled that niche of using the sports games with her Foward smash. Ridley was always I figured was design problems with his skeletal animation, he just fits more as a boss and how his Other M design was absolutely hot trash and I believe he would be playable if his Brawl deign got in. But that's just me.


Yeah but Smash 4's focused more on characters moreso considering how unique the newcomers are. Plus Brawl would have had the same problems and complaints if SSE wasn't a thing. I doubt we would have a much bigger roster but we might could have saved Mewtwo and Roy.

Plus which was a bigger detriment SSE for Brawl or 3DS for Smash 4?

SSE.
3DS and WiiU shares many assets and the fact that they made two full versions of the game in the same 2.5 year timespan is able to thank this fact.
The main "unique" assets would be Smash Run's which is equivilent to one replayable SSE Map with RNG in it, the stages and Classic mode map.

SSE delayed Brawl by a fair chunk and had little value by itself after you've played it through once or twice.

Smash 3DS can stand by its own standalone product done in the same timespan alongside Smash Wii U and its main fault is making me lose my Icies.

 

[PK_Knee]

Honestly? I'm going to say 3DS for Smash 4. Because at least with the Subspace Emissary Brawl feels like a completely fleshed out game...whereas Smash 4, no matter which version, just feels incomplete to me.

I could honestly care less about the Subspace Emissary. It was some dumb fun the first time, but then it got bland.

 

[Kenith]

Of course, it's sort of a hard question to answer considering we don't know how much content we'd get from cutting the SSE or 3DS version.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Time should never be an issue and placement is dunmb as Mewtwo's addition screws up the roster here

"Time should never be an issue"
What is a Delay then if not time being an issue?

And yeah the organization of characters on the select screen is different for Smash 4 than it was for Brawl.
Brawl's roster was "Top Row: Default Fighters from Smash 64 except Yoshi, + Marth and Mr.G&W" and there each colum was characters from that franchise or characters developmentally connected to that character's legacy somehow with a limit of 4 roster slots per franchise.

I can't say for sure what the rules for Smash 4's select screen placement. My guess is they're aligned by programmed ID number.
The Mii Fighters are last, 3rd party characters second-to-last, Dr.Mario, Dark Pit and Lucina are separate from the rest of their franchise because they got their numbers too late, and the DLC characters come between the 3rd parties and the Miis.

If they implemented Mewtwo and Roy into Brawl before released they'd have to figure out something else with the select screen.

Not saying it justifies leaving out Mewtwo and Roy at all, just saying it was another drop in the bucket.

1 person =\= the whole fanbase. The majority of fans think SSE took too long

I wasn't speaking for the fandom, I'm speaking for myself.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"Time should never be an issue"
What is a Delay then if not time being an issue?

And yeah the organization of characters on the select screen is different for Smash 4 than it was for Brawl

What is a delay? Something you do when you don't have enough time to finish the game!
Mewtwo is at the bottom of the CSS, not around otber characters from his franchise or around other characters from the time period he debuted in

 

[Champ Gold]

Honestly? I'm going to say 3DS for Smash 4. Because at least with the Subspace Emissary Brawl feels like a completely fleshed out game...whereas Smash 4, no matter which version, just feels incomplete to me.

3DS by far, SSE is at least something different, with fun bosses, though it can drag on a bit, especially that sodding maze...3DS may have split the transforming characters, but that also means we lost Squirtle and Ivysaur, and most important of all, Ice Climbers. Now that I think about it 3DS version not existing also means more money and work would have gotten in the Wii U version and more sales for the Wii U

I guess it was true but what hurt me most for Brawl was that SSE development hurt it in balance department, while 3DS lost ICs and the other Pokemon, Brawl flat out cut out 6/7 characters, 3 of which were fairly popular veterans from Melee, some unique things like battle damage, All-Star and Event Mode not being dull and the possibility of Sonic being in but not hurting development.

SSE.
3DS and WiiU shares many assets and the fact that they made two full versions of the game in the same 2.5 year timespan is able to thank this fact.
The main "unique" assets would be Smash Run's which is equivilent to one replayable SSE Map with RNG in it, the stages and Classic mode map.

SSE delayed Brawl by a fair chunk and had little value by itself after you've played it through once or twice.

Smash 3DS can stand by its own standalone product done in the same timespan alongside Smash Wii U and its main fault is making me lose my Icies.

Plus there was the fact that they took a lot of Brawl's stuff and brought it back and gave it the ultimate face lift

 

[PK_Knee]

I think some customs should be banned... mostly the wind ones. I HATE when I lost to a cheap gimmick.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

What is a delay? Something you do when you don't have enough time to finish the game!
Mewtwo is at the bottom of the CSS, not around otber characters from his franchise or around other characters from the time period he debuted in

You didn't read what I said.
He's down there because being DLC, his ID number comes After Sonic, Mega Man and PacMan

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think some customs should be banned... mostly the wind ones.

I HATE when I lost to a cheap gimmick.

Er...This isn't the thread for that
And now we know why edgehogging was removed

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Thanks to SSE being a massive timesink no one cares to play again and was mostly cared for cutscene interactions.

When your favorite mode in Super Smash Bros. Brawl is despised.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You didn't read what I said.
He's down there because being DLC, ID number comes After Sonic, Mega Man and PacMan

I admit I didn't see that at first

 

[PK_Knee]

Er...This isn't the thread for that
And now we know why edgehogging was removed

Whoops, I forgot. Derp.

 

[Deathcarter]

About the dislike of Assist Trophies, I feel Assists would be much better received were they implemented in a much better way than being tied to an item. If they had their own special mode where they operated like Assists in other fighters (some would have to be rebalanced of course), they would be a far cooler addition. As it currently stands, they don't do anything for people who dislike items and even for those who do the inability to choose which assist you want to help you makes it fail in terms of being effective fanservice imo.

 

[Burruni]

Welp.

I just learned that Rhythm Heaven: The Best + (3DS Title) uses a new MC that has little to no similarity to Marshal, the Glee Club members (aka the Chorus Kids), or the (I'm pretty sure) Nameless face character from Night Walk in the GBA title.

A little disappointing, but that also means I'll have to ultimately update my Rhythm Heaven "Mascot" character moveset once I can get some good footage of the new games.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Welp.

I just learned that Rhythm Heaven: The Best + (3DS Title) uses a new MC that has little to no similarity to Marshal, the Glee Club members (aka the Chorus Kids), or the (I'm pretty sure) Nameless face character from Night Walk in the GBA title.

A little disappointing, but that also means I'll have to ultimately update my Rhythm Heaven "Mascot" character moveset once I can get some good footage of the new games.

That reminds me, saw a Rhythm Paradise game, would have got it if I had a new system to play it on