Character Discussion Thread

[Cutie Gwen]

I appreciate what you're saying (I especially commend you for being civil about it).
But that is not my point. I am not trying to discredit or derogate any fans desire to play as their favorite character, absolutely not.
(Especially not now when Nintendo's opened an ear and given us a voice! I support the Smash Bros Fighter Ballot 100%)

My point is simply that people Also need to understand and Appreciate the fact, that the developers Still put in all the time and effort to implement that character into the game at All.

For example: there are only 5 Playable Pokemon, but they still built, animated and programmed 40 Pokeball pokemon into Both games, animated 37 of them into the stages (5 on the 3DS and 32 on the Wii U) and even added 5 more as Smash Run enemies! So not counting trophies there are 87 Pokemon molded animated and programmed in to Super Smash Bros for Wii U and 3DS

They still had to build program animate and voice Waluigi, Ashley, Midna, Dark Samus, Ghirahim and Samurai Goroh,
They Still had to build and animate and program Ridley to be a stage hazard in Pyrosphere,
They still built animated programmed and voiced Chrom to be part of Robin's Final Smash and victory screens,
Tom Nook's still in Villager's Final Smash, nearly All of the F-Zero racers are animated into the stage!

So when you clamor for these characters to join the other stars on the chosable roster, you shouldn't be Angry that they were neglected and unloved by the developers, because that is simply not true.

Nothing about making a Super Smash Bros game is easy, Sakurai and his team have it rough from day one.
They didn't satisfy Everyone, but they still deserve credit for trying. You can still Ask for more, but don't Pretend you got nothing.
That's all I'm saying. That's what I mean by I should bring this up elsewhere but here.
But I still think it's something that even everyone on this forum should be Conscious of.

I should be SO thankful Ridley's design was made even worse, his beak being screwed up again and how he's a coward that joins sides in contrary to the Metroid games. Some ATs are done for no reason, Sakurai knows people want more Metroid characters, yet Dark Samus, a character that's pretty unique, was an AT. Why?

 

[Kenith]

And whether or not you support your characters being Assist Trophies or not, you should still take the time to appreciate that the developers still put in the effort to include your favorite characters in the experience at All. That's all I'm saying.

So I should appreciate the characters I want as a playable character, instead relegated to a cameo that has a tiny chance of appearing to throw out a few random attacks (sometimes AT ME) every time I open an Assist Trophy that I never use because I hardly ever use items and they aren't available online or in competitive play, not to mention making everyone believe they're doomed to never become a fighter of their own and I will get ridiculed if I try to support them?

No, I hate Assist Trophies, I will never 'appreciate' their existence. Once the idea entered Smash Bros. it basically became a death knell for any B-list Nintendo character that might have made the roster otherwise.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Assist Trophies are in a love/hate scenario, you can summon characters who didn't make the cut to help out! However, it's a character you wanted and then you feel salty, it's made even worse when said character you wants starts attacking you

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Diffence: When saying 'in Smash' we mean playable characters, how would you feel if every character you wanted was an Assist Trophy or worse, a stage hazard? I'm not happy literraly every character I wanted didn't make it in. Ridley, BDee, K.Rool, Isaac, Ray MKII, Dillon, Nabbit, Dark Samus, Ghirahim, etc. I want to play as my favourite Nintendo characters or character I feel are significant enough

Actually I Did want Prince Sable, Magnus and Midna to be playable! I also wanted Balloon Fighter and for them to add Ridley to the roster so everyone would shut up about him!
But do you think I'm Mad that Prince Sable still attacks with his frog and snake form, that Magnus can be summoned by Pit and say "Sorry I'm late, I had other business to attend to!" for Ghirahim to still appear and carve Link to shreds or to still fight against/alongside Ridley? I'm not angry and neither should you be! Unsatisfied sure, but not angry.

Being an Assist Trophy is Not the Disrespect to a character the way everyone sees it as. What's say they did add Ridley, BDee, K.Rool Isaac, Ray MK2, Dillon, Nabbit Dark Samus and Ghirahim onto the roster at once but just made them all alt skins of Fox. Would you be satisfied then?

 

[Kenith]

If they had added several of the Assist Trophies they did add as clones of existing characters I would be completely okay with that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually I Did want Prince Sable, Magnus and Midna to be playable! I also wanted Balloon Fighter and for them to add Ridley to the roster so everyone would shut up about him!
But do you think I'm Mad that Prince Sable still attacks with his frog and snake form, that Magnus can be summoned by Pit and say "Sorry I'm late, I had other business to attend to!" for Ghirahim to still appear and carve Link to shreds or to still fight against/alongside Ridley? I'm not angry and neither should you be! Unsatisfied sure, but not angry.

Being an Assist Trophy is Not the Disrespect to a character the way everyone sees it as. What's say they did add Ridley, BDee, K.Rool Isaac, Ray MK2, Dillon, Nabbit Dark Samus and Ghirahim onto the roster at once but just made them all alt skins of Fox. Would you be satisfied then?

You don't get it. I used Ridley as an example of how Ridley's portrayal is inaccurate, why would I think that alts are better? I listed why people dislike ATs, a character they wanted suddenly goes "lol nope, I'm something completely random and I might stay as this for the rest of the franchise!"

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

I should be SO thankful Ridley's design was made even worse, his beak being screwed up again and how he's a coward that joins sides in contrary to the Metroid games. Some ATs are done for no reason, Sakurai knows people want more Metroid characters, yet Dark Samus, a character that's pretty unique, was an AT. Why?

So I should appreciate the characters I want as a playable character, instead relegated to a cameo that has a tiny chance of appearing to throw out a few random attacks (sometimes AT ME) every time I open an Assist Trophy that I never use because I hardly ever use items and they aren't available online or in competitive play, not to mention making everyone believe they're doomed to never become a fighter of their own and I will get ridiculed if I try to support them?

No, I hate Assist Trophies, I will never 'appreciate' their existence. Once the idea entered Smash Bros. it basically became a death knell for any B-list Nintendo character that might have made the roster otherwise.

See this is Exactly the kind of ungratefulness I'm talking about.

 

[PK_Knee]

Welcome to the Official Character Discussion Thread!

The purpose of this thread is to discuss, speculate, predict, and amicably debate the characters the roster of Smash 4 is and could be composed of. To avoid having this thread follow the fate of those prior, what is and is not permissible to post has been mutually amended by the moderating staff. Apart from topical text-only posts, posting legitimate prediction roster images and other content specifically related to the topic of the thread, which is character/roster discussion and only character/roster discussion is acceptable. However, repeated posting of the same acceptable material to the point it becomes excessive and constitutes spam, is not.

Posting any material that is liable to derail the thread, such as joke/trolling posts, flaming/or harassing other users over character choice or general opinions, posts consisting solely or comprised primarily of a gif/meme/video/off-topic image/etc, including Smash Bros. memes or troll roster images, discussion about the state of the thread, general off-topic discussion, or any other content that conflicts with the Global Rules of posting are strictly prohibited and will result in penalization.

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Thank you.

Ashley, my girl, for smash 4.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

See this is Exactly the kind of ungratefulness I'm talking about.

Considering literally every character I wanted didn't make it in and characters I truly dislike got in, I think I should be allowed to vent. Besides, you're acting like the kind of person who believes Samus' personality in Other M is perfect because it's better than nothing

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

So I should appreciate the characters I want as a playable character, instead relegated to a cameo that has a tiny chance of appearing to throw out a few random attacks (sometimes AT ME) every time I open an Assist Trophy that I never use because I hardly ever use items and they aren't available online or in competitive play, not to mention making everyone believe they're doomed to never become a fighter of their own and I will get ridiculed if I try to support them?

No, I hate Assist Trophies, I will never 'appreciate' their existence. Once the idea entered Smash Bros. it basically became a death knell for any B-list Nintendo character that might have made the roster otherwise.

Assist Trophies: the death knell for any B-List Nintendo character, dooming them to never become playable.
Yes, just keep pretending Kind Dedede, Little Mac and Charizard didn't graduate from being background elements, pokeball pokemon and assist trophies.

If things can change for them, things can change for anyone. But being all negative about it isn't going to help.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

it's made even worse when said character you wants starts attacking you

Isn't that the same as someone else picking your favorite character to play with against you?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

OI! HIDE THAT!

Spoiler

Metal Face isn't a giant robot but a guy in a mech suit

Nabbit can do something no one else has: Thief! While Greninja technically does that as the Kalos starters represent fighter mage thief circles, Greninja doesn't do that
Waluigi needs to show how he's different and gain some relevancy such as getting his own game dammit

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_(character_class)

Archetype ahoy!

Nabbit would be the only character that could be some kind of "Rogue/Thief" character.

 

[Kenith]

See this is Exactly the kind of ungratefulness I'm talking about.

I think it's rather disrespectful to call someone dissatisfied with the way a character is represented as being "ungrateful".

Ashley, my girl, for smash 4.

Your first post on this forum, and all you have to say is support for a character that is regarded as impossible by pretty much everyone.
I like you.
Unless you spam that support. Please don't do that.

 

[PK_Knee]

Oh, no, my Notifications are exploding. ;-;

 

[Burruni]

See this is Exactly the kind of ungratefulness I'm talking about.

There was time, money, and energy done into them.

Energy that some people believe was not well spent from a design point.

If the Subspace Emmisary was not attempted in Brawl, odds are we would have gotten more fighters to come out for the game.

Should people like Subspace for the work that was put into it for the sake of it being done? No, it should be on how they enjoyed the actual game mode.

Given the work done for all the models and animations, people have theorized that for the dozens of AT's, how many fighters could have been salvaged from this?

People are upset about seeing their characters in inaccurate portrayals more than anything else.

The vocal chunk of fans still upset about him being Falcondorf.

for being a carbon copy of Marth despite having access to Lances and various jobs for much more potential.

for not even having a moveset based on the different weapon types in uprising.

for not having almost any parts of his moveset resemble his ACTUAL games of Wario Land/World instead of just the Warioware series where he is little more than an MC.

Edit: I also remember, before this game, the issues people had with not having his iconic roll as an attack or lacking his jump slash. The point is the issue is fans of a character seeing far more that could be done with them. That isn't just limited to Assist Trophies of Stage Hazards.

 

[PK_Knee]

I think it's rather disrespectful to call someone dissatisfied with the way a character is represented as being "ungrateful".

Your first post on this forum, and all you have to say is support for a character that is regarded as impossible by pretty much everyone.
I like you.
Unless you spam that support. Please don't do that.

I will not spam that, I actually like this site. .-.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Considering literally every character I wanted didn't make it in and characters I truly dislike got in, I think I should be allowed to vent. Besides, you're acting like the kind of person who believes Samus' personality in Other M is perfect because it's better than nothing

No actually even I think Samus was misrepresented in Other M. But by coincidence I do have friends that think it's better than nothing.
I kinda think it Is nothing, but that's a whole other discussion.

 

[PK_Knee]

No actually even I think Samus was misrepresented in Other M. But by coincidence I do have friends that think it's better than nothing.
I kinda think it Is nothing, but that's a whole other discussion.

I agree with that, but I still like that game.

 

[Kenith]

I will not spam that, I actually like this site. .-.

Then I retract my concerns and bid you a warm welcome.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Assist Trophies: the death knell for any B-List Nintendo character, dooming them to never become playable.
Yes, just keep pretending Kind Dedede, Little Mac and Charizard didn't graduate from being background elements, pokeball pokemon and assist trophies.

If things can change for them, things can change for anyone. But being all negative about it isn't going to help.

Considering Starfy, Waluigi, Lyn and other have had these roles for multiple games now, it's not smart to think they can be promoted suddenly
Jim Sterling said it best here NSFW obviously

 

[PK_Knee]

Then I retract my concerns and bid you a warm welcome.

Thanks. :D

 

[Wintropy]

This might seem like a condescending question, but I only ask out of genuine curiosity:

What exactly is the purpose of rallying for unlikely characters? Perhaps for mainline Smash games I can understand it a bit more, but for DLC, character numbers are pretty limited. For me, if I want to spend hours of my time rallying for a DLC character, I think to myself "could this character conceivably be within the first ten DLC additions?" Supporting characters like K. Rool, Wolf, Isaac, Inkling, and Dixie make sense in this regard. But how fruitful is a DLC campaign for someone like Travis Touchdown going to be?

Sometimes you have characters that spike way up in popularity suddenly, like Shovel Knight, but those are very rare and incidental (and his popularity has pretty much totally died out by now). If you enjoy discussing the character and speculating about what they would look like in Smash, that's fine, but I couldn't imagine trying to run a thread and Twitter account for these types of characters on a daily basis. It'd be exhausting and mostly unproductive. Most of the time, either the character is popular and/or likely or not; very few are going to be on the fence.

I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I support characters like Tiki and Anna is because I love the characters and think they'd be neat in Smash. I certainly don't expect them and I won't be upset if they don't make it - and I think that's part of the fun. If you just support out of interest in the character, freed of any expectations or conditionals, you can't be disappointed; you're not relying on their appearance to appease you, and if it does happen, you get a nice surprise from it. There's no salt or ire if they don't make it, you can just say, "GG, guys, that was fun. See you same time next game?"

I find it's much more relaxed in that sense. And I appreciate the intimacy of these small, tight-knit support communities.

 

[FalKoopa]

Ashley, my girl, for smash 4.

I like you.

 

[Burruni]

Ashley, my girl, for smash 4.

Well.

I'm the owner of her active thread over on this kind of subforum that FalKoopa, KtG, and a few others run. So you're with friends here xD

 

[Kenith]

Considering Starfy, Waluigi, Lyn and other have had these roles for multiple games now, it's not smart to think they can be promoted suddenly
Jim Sterling said it best here NSFW obviously

Liked because Jim Sterling.

I like you.

Why isn't everyone like this?

 

[PK_Knee]

I'm surprised I got accepted here so quickly, on Smash Reddit, it was hard to fir in unless you were 100% competitive, which I'm not.

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

There was time, money, and energy done into them.
Energy that some people believe was not well spent from a design point.

Should people like Subspace for the work that was put into it for the sake of it being done? No, it should be on how they enjoyed the actual game mode.

Ok see, That I can agree with! You don't have to like it but you should still acknowledge of the effort that went into making it.

If the Subspace Emmisary was not attempted in Brawl, odds are we would have gotten more fighters to come out for the game.

Let’s not get crazy.

The vocal chunk of

fans still upset about him being Falcondorf.

for being a carbon copy of Marth despite having access to Lances and various jobs for much more potential.

for not even having a moveset based on the different weapon types in uprising.

for not having almost any parts of his moveset resemble his ACTUAL games of Wario Land/World instead of just the Warioware series where he is little more than an MC.
.

I agree about Falcodorf.

And I’m actually with you 100% about Wario’s inaccurate portrayal! Taking the shoulder attack cheesed me off too.

Even I think Dark Pit had potential to use all the things in Uprising Pit couldn't in Smash. That's exactly what Palutena does after all.
But the thing with Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr.Mario was that they were originally going to just be model swaps of Marth, Pit and Mario respectively. Then at some point in development they thought “Hey let’s make Lucina’s sword work a little differently, give Dark Pit’s items a different effect to Pit’s and let Dr.Mario use pills. These differences were at odds with how model swaps worked, so because it wouldn't add extra man-hours to the project since the work was already done, they gave Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr.Mario their own slots on the roster.

And admit, it you play Dark Pit instead of Pit anyway. If you still choose Pit, Please let me know so I can personally thank you for giving Pit the love he deserves!

The point is the issue is fans of a character seeing far more that could be done with them. That isn't just limited to Assist Trophies of Stage Hazards.

I agree that there is more that can be done with them.

I am not opposing believing more can be done with a character. I am not against asking for More, what I am against is resenting disregarding and ignoring what we already have in doing so.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Let’s not get crazy.

How? There was a limited budget and iirc the development for SSe was about half of Brawl's development time as a whole and the reason it's a doubleburned disk or something like that

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

Considering Starfy, Waluigi, Lyn and other have had these roles for multiple games now, it's not smart to think they can be promoted suddenly
Jim Sterling said it best here NSFW obviously

King Dedede and Charizard were background elements and items for multiple games.
I'm not going to say I believe Starfy, Waluigi and Lyn can become playable in Smash 4 in any way other than being voted in,
but there's also Smash 5 down the road to dream about, right now Anything's possible for that game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

King Dedede and Charizard were background elements and items for multiple games.
I'm not going to say I believe Starfy, Waluigi and Lyn can become playable in Smash 4 in any way other than being voted in,
but there's also Smash 5 down the road to dream about, right now Anything's possible for that game.

We've said it to someone else here before, saying 'Anything's possible' isn't a good argument, or otherwise I'd vote for my cat in Smash saying "Anything's possible"

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

How? There was a limited budget and iirc the development for SSe was about half of Brawl's development time as a whole and the reason it's a doubleburned disk or something like that

Yeah and that amounts to Adventure Mode stages and cutscenes. Something Smash 4 is relatively lacking
...given how much bigger Smash 4's roster is than Brawl's you might have a case there...

 

[A Distant Demon]

I'm surprised I got accepted here so quickly, on Smash Reddit, it was hard to fir in unless you were 100% competitive, which I'm not.

Thats because the smash reddit hates fun and all of them think they are superior to everyone else.

 

[PK_Knee]

King Dedede and Charizard were background elements and items for multiple games.
I'm not going to say I believe Starfy, Waluigi and Lyn can become playable in Smash 4 in any way other than being voted in,
but there's also Smash 5 down the road to dream about, right now Anything's possible for that game.

I disagree, Alfonzo can replace them.

Thats because the smash reddit hates fun and all of them think they are superior to everyone else.

XD

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah and that amounts to Adventure Mode stages and cutscenes. Something Smash 4 is relatively lacking
...given how much bigger Smash 4's roster is than Brawl's you might have a case there...

It's pretty much a fact at this point, not to mention Smash 4 also suffers from cut content. Rhythem heaven, IC if Sakurai's implication holds value, Dr Mario stage and possibly a few characters

 

[memoryman3]

I appreciate what you're saying (I especially commend you for being civil about it).
But that is not my point. I am not trying to discredit or derogate any fans desire to play as their favorite character, absolutely not.
(Especially not now when Nintendo's opened an ear and given us a voice! I support the Smash Bros Fighter Ballot 100%)

My point is simply that people Also need to understand and Appreciate the fact, that the developers Still put in all the time and effort to implement that character into the game at All.

For example: there are only 5 Playable Pokemon, but they still built, animated and programmed 40 Pokeball pokemon into Both games, animated 37 of them into the stages (5 on the 3DS and 32 on the Wii U) and even added 5 more as Smash Run enemies! So not counting trophies there are 87 Pokemon molded animated and programmed in to Super Smash Bros for Wii U and 3DS

They still had to build program animate and voice Waluigi, Ashley, Midna, Dark Samus, Ghirahim and Samurai Goroh,
They Still had to build and animate and program Ridley to be a stage hazard in Pyrosphere,
They still built animated programmed and voiced Chrom to be part of Robin's Final Smash and victory screens,
Tom Nook's still in Villager's Final Smash, nearly All of the F-Zero racers are animated into the stage!

So when you clamor for these characters to join the other stars on the chosable roster, you shouldn't be Angry that they were neglected and unloved by the developers, because that is simply not true.

Nothing about making a Super Smash Bros game is easy, Sakurai and his team have it rough from day one.
They didn't satisfy Everyone, but they still deserve credit for trying. You can still Ask for more, but don't Pretend you got nothing.
That's all I'm saying. That's what I mean by I should bring this up elsewhere but here.
But I still think it's something that even everyone on this forum should be Conscious of.

Some characters like Dixie Kong, were represented in the worst way possible.....item trophies in Smash Tour.

 

[Kenith]

@ PK_Knee just a reminder, double posting and single word posts are frowned upon on Smashboards. Like, the against the rules kind of frowned upon.

How? There was a limited budget and iirc the development for SSe was about half of Brawl's development time as a whole and the reason it's a doubleburned disk or something like that

That just shows how much work went into Brawl. Half the game went into a story mode and the game still managed to have 39 characters, 41 stages, over 500 collectables and over 200 music tracks.

 

[Burruni]

Ok see, That I can agree with! You don't have to like it but you should still acknowledge of the effort that went into making it.



Let’s not get crazy.



I agree about Falcodorf.

And I’m actually with you 100% about Wario’s inaccurate portrayal! Taking the shoulder attack cheesed me off too.

Even I think Dark Pit had potential to use all the things in Uprising Pit couldn't in Smash. That's exactly what Palutena does after all.
But the thing with Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr.Mario was that they were originally going to just be model swaps of Marth, Pit and Mario respectively. Then at some point in development they thought “Hey let’s make Lucina’s sword work a little differently, give Dark Pit’s items a different effect to Pit’s and let Dr.Mario use pills. These differences were at odds with how model swaps worked, so because it wouldn't add extra man-hours to the project since the work was already done, they gave Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr.Mario their own slots on the roster.

And admit, it you play Dark Pit instead of Pit anyway. If you still choose Pit, Please let me know so I can personally thank you for giving Pit the love he deserves!



I agree that there is more that can be done with them.

I am not opposing believing more can be done with a character. I am not against asking for More, what I am against is resenting disregarding and ignoring what we already have in doing so.

1) It's not "getting crazy." The Forbidden 7 data is indication enough that there were fighters partially in the works and at least a few of them were cut due to time more than any other factor (Namely, ). In one of the earliest interviews about Smash 4, Sakurai said that the team was not going to go through the heavy amount of work and time to make another SubSpace-like story mode. If there was a story mode that wasn't as massive in time and work on par of Subspace, it is not a crazy conclusion that these unfinished projects would have been able to see the light of day.

2) & were promoted alternate costumes. Does that stop what they exist as being an inaccurate or incomplete representation of who they are as characters in their incarnation as a fighter? No. It means that they are in a LESS inaccurate/incomplete spot by having the differentiation that they do have.

MOST people are not disregarding or ignoring what went into making Asssist Trophies. The present dissent over the matter is namely over the fact that if the work for them was not done for such complex items (which is what they effectively are,) we could have seen more work done for some characters present on the roster and could have seen more newcomers. Possibly some of those assist trophies being amongst them.

In speculation, people will approach many "what if" situations. Some pose how much of a better product the WiiU version could have been if the 3DS version wasn't attempted (even though it was big financial gain for Nintendo).

Edit:

@ PK_Knee just a reminder, double posting and single word posts are frowned upon on Smashboards. Like, the against the rules kind of frowned upon.


That just shows how much work went into Brawl. Half the game went into a story mode and the game still managed to have 39 characters, 41 stages, over 500 collectables and over 200 music tracks.

Man, it's almost like the release was delayed by over a year and a half in its production!

 

[Champ Gold]

While I'm miffed over characters being ATs, I can't complain since they are in game is some part not taken out and forgotten about


see:Issac and Ray


Besides most of those ATs I wouldn't call B-raated because Sakurai would put them in the roster with fan request. There are a lot of B-rated franchises on the roster. It's just st that they are A-rated on the roster

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

It's pretty much a fact at this point, not to mention Smash 4 also suffers from cut content. Rhythem heaven, IC if Sakurai's implication holds value, Dr Mario stage and possibly a few characters

Yeah see? that's another thing, cut content. All cut content gets cut for a reason and I'm sure 100% of the cut content for Smash 4 was only cut because it couldn't be finished in time for release.
Chances are if all the AT's were set to implemented in the game as playable characters, the bulk of them would wind up cut completely too in this same way.
Like how Diddy Kong is completely absent from Melee outside of one mention on Dixie Kong's trophy.
Bowser Jr. was nearly cut too but they Juust managed to finish him and the Koopalings on time.
I'm also sure the only reason Dr.Mario was released in Smash 4 before Mewtwo was is Just because they Could finish him on time.

 

[PK_Knee]

@ PK_Knee just a reminder, double posting and single word posts are frowned upon on Smashboards. Like, the against the rules kind of frowned upon.


That just shows how much work went into Brawl. Half the game went into a story mode and the game still managed to have 39 characters, 41 stages, over 500 collectables and over 200 music tracks.

Oh, I'll keep that in mind, I am just learning here.