Character Discussion Thread

[JamesDNaux]

So that is a line and overall tone for the game that really sat with me (and a number of others) poorly. It just... feels like the way that they handled transitioning the characters into that style of a game was a poor one to do it without being kind of jarring to fans.

You just need to listen to Grunty.

• Your feathered friend is such a joke, where are the "funny" lines she once spoke?
• With special abilities left on the bench, all you have is that stupid wrench!
• This town is such a confusing place, I'd slap the planner across the face!
• Is it just me or is your nose square? The fans will hate it, you butt-ugly bear!
• You must have gone mad from Kazooie's blabbing, lazing around for years in that cabin!
• I'll build a car from sticks and twine, and still outclass your best design!
• Hunting Jiggies, I don't see the point. Why drag us here to this dead-end joint?
• You can't beat me good in this game, I'll still come out as an eyeball or brain!

Banjo has always been full of self biting humour. How did they know a boss was coming? Because the music changed, obviously.

 

[Burruni]

You just need to listen to Grunty.

• Your feathered friend is such a joke, where are the "funny" lines she once spoke?
• With special abilities left on the bench, all you have is that stupid wrench!
• This town is such a confusing place, I'd slap the planner across the face!
• Is it just me or is your nose square? The fans will hate it, you butt-ugly bear!
• You must have gone mad from Kazooie's blabbing, lazing around for years in that cabin!
• I'll build a car from sticks and twine, and still outclass your best design!
• Hunting Jiggies, I don't see the point. Why drag us here to this dead-end joint?
• You can't beat me good in this game, I'll still come out as an eyeball or brain!

Banjo has always been full of self biting humour. How did they know a boss was coming? Because the music changed, obviously.

I know that it has always had that self-referential, 4th wall breaking writing that kept things so charming.

But... in the perspective that I felt myself anchored to with that game, a lot of it came off as mocking. The fact that they basically said that they had clear choices to the base structure to the game while being aware that (a good chunk of) the fans would be upset to the point of, quote "hate," it just... it is one of few times I can fully say I've been disappointed in a game. And it is frankly my fault, still.

But even with the ironic writing, my original point was that the disservices about the nature of Nuts & Bolts and the Microsoft usage of Conker can be seen as a worse fate than what Spyro currently is holding as the anchor that was the big title to kick off Skylanders.

Edit: Nuts & Bolts is a below-average title that would do better as a Lego-like title than being associated with B&K. Even as bad and glitchy as Sonic 06 is as one of the most infamous sequels of all time, at least it still felt like you were playing a Sonic game. I never really felt like I was playing a Banjo game during my ~6 hours with Nuts & Bolts. That is MY opinion on the game and it is one that I have stumbled across frequently. But that's pretty irrelvant to the point I originally tried to make using the game as a reference.

 

[Kenith]

It would be hilarious seeing someone like Waluigi or Ridley at the top of the list and they ignored it.

If Ridley was legitimately THE single most voted character in the ballot, I don't think they would ignore it. Granted he's not, but if he was I think they would try to make him work again.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You must have gone mad from Kazooie's blabbing, lazing around for years in that cabin!

I take it this quote is from Banjo Tooie.

 

[Kenith]

I like you. You still show support despite the odds being against you. I feel every supporter should do this, be it that Sakurai didn't make them playable, can't/doesn't want to, or because of third party, keep striding forward!

That's what I'm doing. It's rather frustrating to be treated like I'm delusional because of it, though.

 

[StormC]

My first time being in this thread.

What is the community's feeling on Pig/Classic Ganon as a fighter in Smash? Personally, I've only recently really come around to the idea, but I definitely think he would be a perfect way to close out the Zelda roster by completing a second Triforce, giving us a unique Ganon moveset without taking away Falcondorf, and gives us another heavyweight and villain. After K. Rool, he'd probably be the newcomer I'd like to see the most as Smash DLC, unlikely as it is.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

All this stuff about Ganon...

I know some peeps like @oni333 and @ Burruni have wanted him for a long time...

But it honestly feels a bit like a bandwagon.

Which I find weird because Ganon is a constant.

What brought this sudden surge of discussion?

I mean Impa has been a popular pick since Skyward Sword.

Tingle since he's been born. Cuz he's too sexy.

Midna and Ghirahim since their respective debuts.

And Young Link since Melee.

What happened with Ganon? It basically came out of no-where. The dude isn't very popular as a smash request (Impa, Young Link and Midna and Ghirahim all beat him in polls) and he's always had relevancy so there's no real reason for a big spike....

Don't get me wrong, Ganon would be neat (prefer Impa though, base @ Diddy Kong you converted me), but this feels a bit odd.

 

[Curious Villager]

I always liked Ganon since A Link to the Past which was my first Zelda game. In fact, I found it even more odd that people didn't support him until this game. Especially considering the fact that the Smash Bros fanbase have been begging for more villains for years.

I guess the fact Sheik is her own character now (Making it two separate Zelda's and Link's) as well as the fact Ganon got (sort of) revived in A Link Between Worlds after his long absence as well as it's reappearance in Hyrule Warriors made people notice him more.

Which to be fair. Isn't really any different to Impa's return in Skyward Sword after her long absence and Hyrule Warriors making people notice her more as well.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Which to be fair. Isn't really any different to Impa's return in Skyward Sword after her long absence and Hyrule Warriors making people notice her more as well.

Eh. I'd argue otherwise.

Ganon was always relevant to the series.

Impa wasn't so her spike after her return made sense.

Ganon having a spike seems kind of weird....

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh. I'd argue otherwise.

Ganon was always relevant to the series.

Impa wasn't so her spike after her return made sense.

Ganon having a spike seems kind of weird....

Sure, but between the N64 and Wii era, the main focus was mainly planted on Ganondorf whilst Ganon was treated as an "ultimate form" for him. (Even with Four Swords adventures which doesn't really get noticed much in of its own). It wasn't until A Link Between World's where he got a bit more of his own spotlight again (however briefly that was) without being treated as an extension to Ganondorf again.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sure, but between the N64 and Wii era, the main focus was mainly planted on Ganondorf whilst Ganon was treated as an "ultimate form" for him. (Even with Four Swords adventures which doesn't really get noticed much in of its own). It wasn't until A Link Between World's where he got a bit more of his own spotlight again (however briefly that was) without being treated as an extension to Ganondorf again.

But still relevant. Just because Ganon was Ganondorf's trump card doesn't make him less relevant in those years.

 

[Curious Villager]

But still relevant. Just because Ganon was Ganondorf's trump card doesn't make him less relevant in those years.

He was relevant I agree. but he wasn't really as much of the main focus as Ganondorf was. Hence why people started to notice him when he received more of it in A Link Between Worlds. Also do keep in mind that A Link Between Worlds was designed with Zelda fans of the Pre-Ocarina of Time Zelda's and the Oracle's in mind. So it may have also brought in some fans who enjoyed those earlier titles or got people who enjoyed A Link Between Worlds to try out those titles as well (or at least A Link to the Past). Which could have probably also contributed to his surge of support.

That's just what I think though.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He was relevant I agree. but he wasn't really as much of the main focus as Ganondorf was. Hence why people started to notice him when he received more of it in A Link Between Worlds. Also do keep in mind that A Link Between Worlds was designed with Zelda fans of the Pre-Ocarina of Time Zelda's and the Oracle's in mind. So it may have also brought in some fans who enjoyed those earlier titles or got people who enjoyed A Link Between Worlds to try out those titles as well (or at least A Link to the Past). Which could have probably also contributed to his surge of support.

That's just what I think though.

Okay I suppose....

But why the rise now of all times?

You'd think that 2014 would be the time to start as Link Between Worlds was just released and all of the Ganon games were released on VC.

 

[Curious Villager]

Okay I suppose....

But why the rise now of all times?

You'd think that 2014 would be the time to start as Link Between Worlds was just released and all of the Ganon games were released on VC.

There was some support for Ganon during 2014 I remember. I suppose it was just a smaller group then though..

 

[Swamp Sensei]

There was some support for Ganon during 2014 I remember. I suppose it was just a smaller group then though..

It was indeed smaller.

I'm just not sure why it's growing now, when nothing notable with Zelda has really happened.

 

[Curious Villager]

It was indeed smaller.

I'm just not sure why it's growing now, when nothing notable with Zelda has really happened.

Well there was that playable Ganon DLC for Hyrule Warrior's not too long ago...

 

[Kenith]

It was indeed smaller.
I'm just not sure why it's growing now, when nothing notable with Zelda has really happened.

That's why we support Ganon, or any Zelda newcomer in general. Because nothing notable with Zelda has happened. We didn't get a newcomer and Ganondorf is still a clone. Ganon would solve both of those problems while being a rad pig demon wielding a trident.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's why we support Ganon, or any Zelda newcomer in general. Because nothing notable with Zelda has happened. We didn't get a newcomer and Ganondorf is still a clone. Ganon would solve both of those problems while being a rad pig demon wielding a trident.

Missing my point.

Yeah, nothing notable happened with Zelda lately, but I'm talking about just that. I'm just confused as to why he's more popular than last year when he was arguably more relevant then.

He's picking up notable steam (still behind those four I mentioned though) in our present day.

It strikes me as odd.

Well there was that playable Ganon DLC for Hyrule Warrior's not too long ago...

I doubt that swayed minds...

It wasn't very fun....

 

[Kenith]

Missing my point.
Yeah, nothing notable happened with Zelda lately, but I'm just confused as to why he's more popular than last year when he was arguably more relevant.
He's picking up notable steam (still behind those four I mentioned though) in our present day.
It strikes me as odd.

I didn't miss your point at all. I said exactly what was supposed to be said. Part of Ganon's support comes from the fact that Ganondorf is still a Captain Falcon clone, and also because he's one of the few candidates for a newcomer not deconfirmed already.
That said, I don't know what you're referring to, I'm not seeing much support for him at all.

 

[Curious Villager]

I doubt that swayed minds...

It wasn't very fun....

Well, it did get some people talking for a bit before it got released.....

Anyway, I'm personally happy that Ganon has been getting noticed some more with the fandom, and I do hope that his support continues to move forward as I do feel that he does have a place with the Super Smash Bros series, likewise I feel the same for King.K.Rool and Ridley. That's my opinion on that.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That said, I don't know what you're referring to, I'm not seeing much support for him at all.

I'm seeing much more than I used to.

Though he stills pales in comparison to Impa, Young Link, Ghirahim and Midna.

Though Impa is the only one out of those I consider remotely possible.

 

[Kenith]

I'm seeing much more than I used to.
Though he stills pales in comparison to Impa, Young Link, Ghirahim and Midna.
Though Impa is the only one out of those I consider remotely possible.

Funny because I consider Ganon the most likely out of all of those.
At least, as anything more than an easy clone/Luigified clone.

 

[IsmaR]

I doubt that swayed minds...

It wasn't very fun....

Regardless of how rage-inducing OHKO's from Gohma the mode was, Ganon has now been playable in non-dorf form.

That's bound to kindle more than a few "Huh, pig Ganon would be cool in an actual fighting game" thoughts from fans.

Give it time, soon enough people will be fawning over the villain for Zelda Wii U.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's always heart warming to see Impa discussion in my absence <3

I agree with Ganon being a bit of a bandwagon thing though. He wasn't all that popular before his return in ALBW, which am not even too sure if it should count. The appearance of Ganon was similar to how he appeared in the Oracle games. And wasn't the "Ghirahim" of ALBW ultimately poccesing Ganon? I think it's pretty weak of a boss appearance myself tbh... And fans seem to cling to Ganon more because Ganondorf is mostly unchanged from Brawl.

Also, since Zelda Wii U isn't appearing on E3, chances are big it's gonna be delayed. And if it's delayed, it will most likely mean no Zelda Wii U characters being voted for on the ballot. I say this makes Impa a far stronger contender than any other Zelda potential character.

 

[Kenith]

I think implicating a character's support comes from "bandwagoning" is really selling them short.
I also think that saying that Ganon's support comes from bandwagoning then praising Impa is extremely ironic.

Give it time, soon enough people will be fawning over the villain for Zelda Wii U.

Watch it be Vaati's big comeback and then everyone loses their minds and starts supporting him for Smash 4/5.

 

[FalKoopa]

Unless we see another console Toon Link game, Vaati is a lost cause.

 

[Burruni]

My support for Ganon came a bit in a surge after ALBW because it was the first we've seen Ganon by himself (Edit: By this I mean not as a transformation of Ganondorf in the final boss fight) in a Zelda game since FSA.

I didn't put him on my rosters because I played it to what I felt were more "safe" picks with only a personal want or two being wholly added in (namely Geno and Bandana Dee).

He has always made a lot more sense as a Zelda newcomer than Impa (who is the forerunner of choices), but I never thought we'd be seeing one when , , and ultimately had effectively the same designs from Brawl. Ganondorf being held secret until the game came out only reaffirmed my belief. Would I have loved to see Ganondorf and Ganon as a double-header kind of trailer akin to in ~'s? Yes. But I didn't expect it. I was busy worrying that Icies weren't coming back and in terms of newcomers... Bandana Dee and a Rhythm Heaven Character were on my sight.
Now that we're shifting to the Ballot? I'm being a lot more vocal about it because Ganon is a better and more deserving choice of a Zelda newcomer in my eyes.

Edit: TL;DR - I've wanted Ganon since ALBW made me hopeful we would see a resurgence of his usage in the series alone. I was fairly quiet about it because I never expected a Zelda newcomer for this title, I was focused on the few "want" picks that I had on my rosters (and I never saw that we had a Ganon thread). Now that we're to the situation of the Ballot, I'm coming out the supporter's closet.

 

[Kenith]

Unless we see another console Toon Link game, Vaati is a lost cause.

Maybe...don't let Scatman hear--wait, where the hell is he?
Vaati would be cool. Although, like Ganondorf/Ganon, I'd rather see his beast form as a playable character than his Minish form. Or a hybrid of the two where you control him as a Minish but his attacks create a phantom version of his monster form around him.

 

[memoryman3]

Strangely, Zelda will soon have less reps than FIRE EMBLEM (which I'm sure there is a bias for) and is already outpaced by Mario by a long shot.

Then again, Zelda doesn't really have a vast range of characters to pick from. Some might argue we already have all of the key Zelda characters, because Tecmo had to actually make ORIGINAL characters such as Cia and Lana to pad out the roster in Hyrule Warriors. Compared to Super Mario and Donkey Kong, where the roster, while large, still has unfinished business with staples such as Toad/Toadette, Daisy, Dixie and K.Rool.

 

[FalKoopa]

Maybe...don't let Scatman hear--wait, where the hell is he?
Vaati would be cool. Although, like Ganondorf/Ganon, I'd rather see his beast form as a playable character than his Minish form. Or a hybrid of the two where you control him as a Minish but his attacks create a phantom version of his monster form around him.

I prefer the opposite, actually.The black eye beast looks perfect for a Final Smash to me.

 

[MainJPW]

Unless we see another console Toon Link game, Vaati is a lost cause.

Ah yes, Wind Waker 2 please!

 

[memoryman3]

Edit: Nuts & Bolts is a below-average title that would do better as a Lego-like title than being associated with B&K. Even as bad and glitchy as Sonic 06 is as one of the most infamous sequels of all time, at least it still felt like you were playing a Sonic game. I never really felt like I was playing a Banjo game during my ~6 hours with Nuts & Bolts. That is MY opinion on the game and it is one that I have stumbled across frequently. But that's pretty irrelvant to the point I originally tried to make using the game as a reference.

Sonic BOOM was bad, glitchy and didn't feel like Sonic.

 

[Burruni]

Sonic BOOM was bad, glitchy and didn't feel like Sonic.

Yep. And from those grounds it's worse than Sonic 06. I often say that it's worse because it's a very empty and bland kind of bad where you can't really get any enjoyment from it, while 06 has its moments and the brief windows when you can see the stellar game they wanted to make. But 06 was the "standard for bad" most gamers ended up using and was a more timely comparison to Nuts & Bolts. Nobody had high hopes for Boom. THAT is the big difference in the impact the two games had.

 

[Kenith]

Firstly...

Strangely, Zelda will soon have less reps than FIRE EMBLEM (which I'm sure there is a bias for) and is already outpaced by Mario by a long shot.

No, they're be on par. Three unique characters and two clones. I don't really think there's a bias for Fire Emblem.
Secondly...

Then again, Zelda doesn't really have a vast range of characters to pick from.

...what?

 

[SpandexBullets]

More female characters;
• Tetra
• Amaterasu
• Paulie
• Kumatora
• Prime Samus
• Dixie Kong
• Jade (BGAE)
• Zelda (all knight-like with the reflector sword from TP, ultising Sheik's melee down Smash, Dair, Bair, and a sword jab similar to Shieks. New everything else and specials.)

This is some childs first smash; let's not show preference.

 

[Kenith]

Wait...when did Beyond Good and Evil warrant a character in Smash Bros.? That seems exceedingly random compared to the other characters you listed.
Also, who's Paulie? Judging from the fact you listed her next to Kumatora I'm guessing you mean Paula?

 

[Burruni]

More female characters;
• Tetra
• Amaterasu
• Paulie
• Kumatora
• Prime Samus
• Dixie Kong
• Jade (BGAE)
• Zelda (all knight-like with the reflector sword from TP, ultising Sheik's melee down Smash, Dair, Bair, and a sword jab similar to Shieks. New everything else and specials.)

This is some childs first smash; let's not show preference.

This... came out of nowhere, but let me say a few things about the list

1) Amaterasu is 3rd Party so get one massive pull in the ballot if you expect her.
2) "Prime Samus" as in having some major visual and gameplay distance from despite just being her usage in the prime trilogy?
3) Kumatora and presumably Paula are from a series that already required DLC to get their second fighter back. And with Itoi saying that he is done with the series, I don't foresee a third character.
4) Beyond Good and Evil needs that teasered sequel before we seriously talk about Smash hopes...
5) "All Knight-like" Zelda..... a) why not the pre-planned Toon Zelda? b) why not Tetra? c) why not the rapier-toting Zelda from hyrule Warriors if you are gonna press for a 3rd version of Zelda on the roster, and I'd expect to see Impa and Ganon far before her.

Edit: Interesting that you'd list Dixie Kong but exclude Impa and then we have other big female DLC pushers like Krystal, Medusa, Shantae, Inkling (technically), even the likes of Anna (Fire Emblem), Captain Syrup, Bayonetta or even Adeline.

 

[FalKoopa]

Also, who's Paulie? Judging from the fact you listed her next to Kumatora I'm guessing you mean Paula?

Pauline? lol

 

[Kenith]

Edit: Interesting that you'd list Dixie Kong but exclude Impa and then we have other big female DLC pushers like Krystal, Medusa, Shantae, Inkling (technically), even the likes of Anna (Fire Emblem), Captain Syrup, Bayonetta or even Adeline.

ALSO MIDN-*shot, banned, electrocuted, sent to the Shadow Realm, etc.*

Pauline? lol

How did I...? I am dumb.
Although I have no idea what Pauline would do that would prevent her from being torn to shreds if she got in over Captain Toad.
Or King K. Rool and Dixie Kong, technically.

 

[Burruni]

ALSO MIDN-*shot, banned, electrocuted, sent to the Shadow Realm, etc.*


How did I...? I am dumb.
Although I have no idea what Pauline would do that would prevent her from being torn to shreds if she got in over Captain Toad.
Or King K. Rool and Dixie Kong, technically.

I was keeping out characters with a role already. KtG you know I'd put Ashley and Isabelle in there (a bit before Midna... and Dark Samus somewhere in there).