Character Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

I was referring to the Young Link one.

I really really hope you were sarcastic here. :<
That's just only going to break my heart more.

 

[Chandeelure]

Ganon and Young Link are not going to happen so I don't see the point in discussing about their threads.

 

[BluePikmin11]

There are still things to talk about with Young Link, there's many people who talk about a revamp based on Majora's Mask Link's incarnation, certainly gets people excited for a discussion. Seriously if that thread gets locked right after I got the ownership of that thread a few months ago by IsMar, I'm just going to quit posting in the Character Discussion boards entirely.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Ganon isn't the same as Ganondorf's beast Ganon transformation. They're from completely different time lines and are therefore no longer the same individual. That's not even getting into the fact that one's basically an anthropomorphic pig wizard and the other is pretty much an out of control werehog.

 

[Chandeelure]

That masks moveset is not going to happen, it would need a lot of effort for a character that nobody wants back except for some hipsters smash fans, also... transformations are gone.

And I'm pretty sure Sakurai thinks beast Ganon and pig Ganon are the same, we are talking about the guy who thinks conductor Link and Wind Waker Link are the same, the one who thinks adult Link and conductor Link can be confused, the one who made Ganondorf a Captain Falcon semiclone and the one who planned Toon Sheik for Brawl.

Also, Impa is much more popular than both of them, and Impa is not really that popular.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Impa was ever only popular among the Smash fan base because people wanted her to take up Sheik's move set. Time to copy paste something I wrote elsewhere.

We have Toon Link to represent the "toon style" games, while Link, Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf take most of their cues from the realistic 3D Zelda games. What we currently DO NOT have is a Zelda character that is emblematic of the classic top down games. Ganon would be a GREAT way to give the older games some rep.

Playstyle wise, he would be a highly mobile heavy weight (teleporting all over the place) with an interesting projectile game based off of his magic attacks (the game needs more fire bats.) He would also use his trident for melee attacks, making him our first spear user.

He basically combines most of the positive points of both

and

You could easily make a full move set only using the Ganon fight from A Link to the Past, even though I would personally use move from his other appearances as well.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I know, I'm just bringing up that discussion for Young Link still exists.
And there are easy multiple ways around it to make the MM transformations work if you read my earlier posts about Young Link when I was talking to @ Ura . I don't want the thread locked because of someone's opinion about Young Link when there are multiple viable arguments against this, that doesn't feel like a justified reason to lock the thread.

 

[A Distant Demon]

A LOT of characters arent going to happen. But that isnt an excuse to close their thread.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Young Link in Smash means we have a Goron, a Zora and a Deku in Smash right?
The, I dunno, most important tribes in Zelda lore?

The tribes that appear more than Impa and Tingle combined?

Not to mention Young Link is a veteran and, if we're going on Rosalina Logic, represents one of the most critically aclaimed games of all time, both of them gaining a remake in the current gen.

Or he's a super easy vet clone who need no reasons to join becuz vet and super easy clone. /pichulogicz
And he would still be a relevant and popular clone at that.

Why would we even close a thread of a dude that got the best game ever under his belt, is a veteran and is the most recent choice ever, on top of having the possibility of being an easy clone because the fans, who have been wrong time and time again think he's "unlikely"?

 

[Chandeelure]

Oh, just for clarification, I don't want the thread closed, well... I don't really care.

I will think Young Link has a chance only if Roy comes unchanged.

 

[IsmaR]

Young Link is a specific Link during a specific era.

Whether or not the "kid" version of Link niche is filled or not is irrelevant given he's already been in Smash. In the same lieu as Doc, Smash has given them their own identity.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sorry, budging in to do a Bayonetta debate again since JamesDNaux requested it,

I know:

So, as long as any Joe Blow has a vote, then they have an actual legitimate chance of getting into Smash.

A large amount of votes so that Sakurai can at least consider the character. And Bayonetta does a chance to make it in Smash.

By that logic, explain to me how Bayonetta is any more likely than Lip.

I'll give a list of things of what Bayonetta offers right now that has:
+Currently running, relevant third-party franchise with it's newest critically acclaimed game Bayonetta 2.
+Arguably more well known than Panel de Pon right now.
+More requested than Lip right now by a large margin, so Sakurai can easily see that Bayonetta is wanted highly among Smash fans.
+Has a large amount of noticeable moveset potential, already nailing through Sakurai's first step in picking 3rd parties.
+A pretty iconic character that the majority of people of today would buy instantly. (Also attracting, that grabs a lot of a casual gamer's attention.)
+Also being advocated by Platinum Games, meaning they open to his inclusion.

And reiterating, it's not a dormant series right now, that's the main advantage I see Bayonetta having over Lip.

Or a Goomba.

, seriously? There's so much I can argue against this it's not funny, comparing Goomba's chances to Bayonetta is absurd.

Or Goku. Sakurai can change his mind, you know. He'll clearly listen to any outrageous request, at that.

Going by Sakurai's recent word about Spongebob and Goku, he's likely not happening at all. Anything that's said by Sakurai post-Smash release (Or near that) is probably not going to change at all.

As far as I recall, you ended the last one with the same "anything can change" shlick.

Again, if you're not going to continue it in the character thread, just drop it in here.

As far as I can recall, I ended the debate with how Bayonetta isn't as much of a controversial character as you think. I'm sure I didn't end it on a low note here, I don't really do that kind of stuff.

 

[Ura]

Oh, just for clarification, I don't want the thread closed, well... I don't really care.

I will think Young Link has a chance only if Roy comes unchanged.

Personally, I think Roy will be changed up pretty significantly though that doesn't mean YLink's chances are out the window. He can still be pretty different from both of the Link's in the games.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I will think Young Link has a chance only if Roy comes unchanged.

Which he most likely will because we already have Lucina, plus the Melee clones that made it back where all heavily revamped.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I dunno about that, he certainly has the time to revamp him, Sakurai is not at a state where he can add clones last minute anymore.

 

[Ura]

At worst, I can see YLink without any MM moves and instead using different specials than the other 2 Link's (i.e. Bombchu's instead of Bomb's, FIre Arrows instead of regular ones, etc) while having significantly different A attacks.

 

[BluePikmin11]

New topic, how likely do you think Sakurai will revamp all three clones additions in the roster with a new semi-clone moveset? Certainly seems like fan-service people would buy immediately, given the general complaints of clones from many people.

 

[IsmaR]

At the very least, they could stand to make Young Link's Hookshot yellow/gold.

Ice Arrows, Bombchus and the Bomb Mask as custom move swaps plz

 

[JamesDNaux]

Going by Sakurai's recent word about Spongebob and Goku, he's likely not happening at all. Anything that's said by Sakurai post-Smash release (Or near that) is probably not going to change at all.

Yes, and Sakurai gave specific criteria for third party characters as well, yet you keep moving goal posts.

You keep saying that Sakurai can change his mind, and that "argument" can apply to literally anything. Like Ridley, for one.

"Anything can change!" is not suitable evidence toward's Bayonetta's chances.

I'll give a list of things of what Bayonetta offers right now that has:
+Currently running, relevant third-party franchise with it's newest critically acclaimed game Bayonetta 2.
+Arguably more well known than Panel de Pon right now.
+More requested than Lip right now by a large margin, so Sakurai can easily see that Bayonetta is wanted highly among Smash fans.
+Has a large amount of noticeable moveset potential, already nailing through Sakurai's first step in picking 3rd parties.
+A pretty iconic character that the majority of people of today would buy instantly. (Also attracting, that grabs a lot of a casual gamer's attention.)

Again, using Nintendo character standards for non Nintendo characters.

-"Currently running franchise."

And reiterating, it's not a dormant series right now, that's the main advantage I see Bayonetta having over Lip.

Means absolutely nothing for third parties and barely means anything for Nintendo characters either.
Bayonetta isn't currently running anyway nor is it a franchise. Every current third party, plus Snake and Ryu, have had 20+ games covering a span of 20+ years. Bayonetta has two games, one of which would not have existed if not for a pity save from Nintendo. Unless you can give solid proof that a Bayonetta 3 is in the works, she's going to be a niche cult character in a few years. Geno.

-The argument that Bayonetta is more well known than Lip again implies that they play by the same rules, which they don't. You may as well be saying that Minecraft Steve can get in because of how well known he is.

-Again, thinking that requests are going to affect anything. If that were the case, then Goku and Ridley are shoe-ins.

-Moveset potential has absolutely nothing to do with anything, but who's to say one character has more potential than another?

-Mario is iconic. Pac-Man is iconic. Sonic... you get where this is going. You're terribly misconstruing the definition of the word iconic to suit your own needs. Unless you mean to say that she's currently a fad, of which will fade away very soon.

As far as I can recall, I ended the debate with how Bayonetta isn't as much of a controversial character as you think. I'm sure I didn't end it on a low note here, I don't really do that kind of stuff.

She is a controversial character, and not because of how provocative she is.

Bayonetta does not have the status required of a third party character.

Sorry, budging in to do a Bayonetta debate again since JamesDNaux requested it,

Very mature.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Sorry, budging in to do a Bayonetta debate again since JamesDNaux requested it,

I know:


A large amount of votes so that Sakurai can at least consider the character. And Bayonetta does a chance to make it in Smash.


I'll give a list of things of what Bayonetta offers right now that has:
+Currently running, relevant third-party franchise with it's newest critically acclaimed game Bayonetta 2.
+Arguably more well known than Panel de Pon right now.
+More requested than Lip right now by a large margin, so Sakurai can easily see that Bayonetta is wanted highly among Smash fans.
+Has a large amount of noticeable moveset potential, already nailing through Sakurai's first step in picking 3rd parties.
+A pretty iconic character that the majority of people of today would buy instantly. (Also attracting, that grabs a lot of a casual gamer's attention.)
+Also being advocated by Platinum Games, meaning they open to his inclusion.

And reiterating, it's not a dormant series right now, that's the main advantage I see Bayonetta having over Lip.


, seriously? There's so much I can argue against this it's not funny, comparing Goomba's chances to Bayonetta is absurd.


Going by Sakurai's recent word about Spongebob and Goku, he's likely not happening at all. Anything that's said by Sakurai post-Smash release (Or near that) is probably not going to change at all.

If the rules can be broken for fighting characters, the third-party rules can be broken too.

Anything is possible, it's Sakurai we're dealing with

As far as I can recall, I ended the debate with how Bayonetta isn't as much of a controversial character as you think. I'm sure I didn't end it on a low note here, I don't really do that kind of stuff.

Sorry.

But the thing I'm curious about:

Do you have a concrete idea on how Bayonetta could be toned down?
All I've heard is "Sakurai can do it", and I'm sure he can, but I want to have something more concrete.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I dunno about that, he certainly has the time to revamp him, Sakurai is not at a state where he can add clones last minute anymore.

Exactly. And provided that FE6 actually came out since the time Roy was added in as a last minute Marth clone there's all the more reasons to not expect him back with the same moveset.

I still think Toon Link was decided upon to be exactly Young Link's spiritual succesor. The fact he got Fire Arrows as a custom this game only adds up to this feeling. I think that even Dr.Mario could have gotten more unique moves if he was to return in Brawl as planned. He's already much different this time around, with far more changes in speed / strenght and other artibutes than before.

I would like a Young Link based on Majora's Mask, but am not seeing it happening. There was a good reason why Sakurai planned to let return all Melee veterans in Brawl outside of Young Link and Pichu.

Impa is still a better choice anyway, so let's just keep with her.

 

[Ura]

New topic, how likely do you think Sakurai will revamp all three clones additions in the roster with a new semi-clone moveset? Certainly seems like fan-service people would buy immediately, given the general complaints of clones from many people.

I think that would be a good idea. Adding on to what I said before, Wolf's moveset is pretty similar to what I mentioned for YLink. He has very different A attacks and his B specials are only somewhat related to Fox and Falco's. The same can work for Roy to differentiate himself from Marth and Lucina.

Pichu I think can return with his previous moveset only he'll be able to deal more damage and knockback when he's really damaged himself (like Lucario). Would make Pichu a very volatile character to use which I think is a pretty interesting concept for Smash.

I still think Toon Link was decided upon to be exactly Young Link's spiritual succesor. The fact he got Fire Arrows as a custom this game only adds up to this feeling.

Ness/Fox have Lucas/Wolf inspired specials as their customs. It doesn't mean anything really. I can see Lucas/Wolf having Ness/Fox inspired customs as well when they return (granted DLC characters ever get customs lol).

 

[A Distant Demon]

Oh boy a Bayonetta argument

yeah have fun with that i dont feel like dealing with that **** again

 

[BluePikmin11]

By 3 clones, I meant Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Oh god, it's always fun popping in during Bayonetta discussion
I would love to see the char in Smash but I know her chances are low

 

[Champ Gold]

Oh boy a Bayonetta argument

yeah have fun with that i dont feel like dealing with that **** again

I rather discuss K. Rool vs Dixie vs Wonder Red vs Issac, / arguments and Gemastu again over freaking Bayonetta again

 

[A Distant Demon]

New topic, how likely do you think Sakurai will revamp all three clones additions in the roster with a new semi-clone moveset? Certainly seems like fan-service people would buy immediately, given the general complaints of clones from many people.

In this game or in the next smash? because I am 100% sure it isnt happening this game.

Next game maybe a little bit of luigification but not as severe as the differences between Fox and falco thats for sure. Even then im not sure how many of them are coming back at all.

 

[Burruni]

Here are my stances on the 3 Alt. Costume Promoted clones.

: I was infuriated by his return. But honestly keeps him differentiated from enough because of the number of moves that have differentiation in properties. He's tier in my eyes in terms of "Clone" factor.

: There are threads dedicated to how this could be made better. If there was more differentiation in side+B than launch angle, given a unique down B, and some more unique standard moves and he'd be acceptable. Maybe not likable, but far better off. Otherwise, make him an alternate costume. Nothing prevents him from using the Three Sacred Treasures despite not having used them in the game since he's practically identical to Pit come the end of Awakening.

: I want her as an Alt. Costume in Smash 5. Her difference in the blade is so minute when it comes to actual gameplay when every move she has is the exact same. She should've brought her Lance mastery if she wanted to be made out more unique. Chrom at least had a shield in the form of the Fire Emblem over his daughter for potential to be unique.

 

[Kalimdori]

The purpose of Young Link was for there to be a child Link in Smash. With Toon Link serving the exact same purpose, Young Link has no reason to show up.

Darnit! I was so hopeful to see Roy come back, but since Lucina's taken his slot as a Marth clone there's no chance he could show up!

 

[Champ Gold]

Here are my stances on the 3 Alt. Costume Promoted clones.

: I was infuriated by his return. But honestly keeps him differentiated from enough because of the number of moves that have differentiation in properties. He's tier in my eyes in terms of "Clone" factor.

: There are threads dedicated to how this could be made better. If there was more differentiation in side+B than launch angle, given a unique down B, and some more unique standard moves and he'd be acceptable. Maybe not likable, but far better off. Otherwise, make him an alternate costume. Nothing prevents him from using the Three Sacred Treasures despite not having used them in the game since he's practically identical to Pit come the end of Awakening.

: I want her as an Alt. Costume in Smash 5. Her difference in the blade is so minute when it comes to actual gameplay when every move she has is the exact same. She should've brought her Lance mastery if she wanted to be made out more unique. Chrom at least had a shield in the form of the Fire Emblem over his daughter for potential to be unique.

I consider as the Evil Ryu/Devil Jin of Smash Bros and people tend to forget that. He's so insanely different from however similar. He's a hard hitting much more vicious character

& however are similar but should have better differences even then look at the this way, Electroshock Arm should be one of custom moves you're right on Lucina because while she's popular, she is forever a because that's what she is, unless you want to give her the treatment but with electricity instead of fire but at the end of the day, she should be regulated to an alt plus Lucina with a tipper would be great

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yes, and Sakurai gave specific criteria for third party characters as well, yet you keep moving goal posts.

You keep saying that Sakurai can change his mind, and that "argument" can apply to literally anything. Like Ridley, for one.

"Anything can change!" is not suitable evidence toward's Bayonetta's chances.

Not really, at the very least, as long as the ballot says any video-game character can voted, Bayonetta is not completely out of the radar. It suggests to me that he's bit open to more third-party choices and that those choices. It's not much to go by, but it's there to show she's qualifiable and more of a possible choice than before and that Sakurai can change his mind on third parties if fans show very good reasons on why she should be in, and there are plenty of them available.

Again, using Nintendo character standards for non Nintendo characters.

-"Currently running franchise."

It's not much of a chance raiser or anything, but it's a reminder to Sakurai that the franchise isn't dead.

Means absolutely nothing for third parties and barely means anything for Nintendo characters either.

Yeah, I don't think retro characters can really apply for third-parties here.

Bayonetta isn't currently running anyway nor is it a franchise. Every current third party, plus Snake and Ryu, have had 20+ games covering a span of 20+ years. Bayonetta has two games, one of which would not have existed if not for a pity save from Nintendo. Unless you can give solid proof that a Bayonetta 3 is in the works, she's going to be a niche cult character in a few years. Geno.

Based on a few interviews about Kamiya here and how he would like to make sequels for certain franchises, I'm sure Bayonetta isn't dead yet. If this tweet is in any indication:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/357364545003601920

I hope so. RT @Patpadi1: if Bayonetta 2 going to be a hit would you think about it to make a third part ?

And it is certainly a hit right now with the raving reviews it's getting, Bayonetta 3 will probably happen someday, but not this year because I think it's too early and Bayonetta 2 has just release months ago and it's only in it's baby steps.

-Again, thinking that requests are going to affect anything. If that were the case, then Goku and Ridley are shoe-ins.

Again, it will at least help Sakurai consider Bayonetta it won't make her a shoo-in, just at the least considered since the ballot is more of a suggestion box than anything. She hasn't been flat-out deconfirmed like Goku and Ridley.

-Moveset potential has absolutely nothing to do with anything, but who's to say one character has more potential than another?

Of course it does, if the character isn't interesting to make a Smash fighter out of, then Sakurai is probably going to pass by the character's inclusion. Bayonetta is the complete opposite of uninteresting.

-Mario is iconic. Pac-Man is iconic. Sonic... you get where this is going. You're terribly misconstruing the definition of the word iconic to suit your own needs. Unless you mean to say that she's currently a fad, of which will fade away very soon.

-The argument that Bayonetta is more well known than Lip again implies that they play by the same rules, which they don't. You may as well be saying that Minecraft Steve can get in because of how well known he is.

Not really, she is certainly iconic and recognizable to a noticeable extent (moreso than average eShop game that gets released every week), I've seen her in many gaming websites with many using her as avatars and people praising her games, just not as iconic as the legendary 3 we have right now. You gotta stop comparing her to them. It's getting really misleading.

Very mature.

It's like you want to kick me out of this place man. :L
I don't think there's a need for this really.

 

[Ura]

I consider to be less of a clone than is now TBH. He has a lot attacks that are different from and his playstyle is much different than his. For Smash 5, &need to be significantly decloned or be made as alts.

I said this many times before but should &return back to Smash, they need to get the Wolf treatment meaning they'll have different yet somewhat similar B specials but their A attacks will be almost completely different from their originator and other clone.

 

[FalKoopa]

Darnit! I was so hopeful to see Roy come back, but since Lucina's taken his slot as a Marth clone there's no chance he could show up!

Not quite. Roy was forced to play differently because of his weird. That's not really the case for Lucina.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah I wouldn't be locking a thread because a certain "niche" has been taken by another playable character. I don't think anybody would want to see threads like the Squirtle Support thread getting locked because "his niche as a Water Starter Pokemon has been taken by Greninja"....

And not every character in the character support section is going to happen, which still doesn't mean they aren't allowed to be supported if they don't have any active roles of any kind.

So good on not locking Young Link's thread.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Not really, at the very least, as long as the ballot says any video-game character can voted, Bayonetta is not completely out of the radar. It suggests to me that he's bit open to more third-party choices and that those choices. It's not much to go by, but it's there to show she's qualifiable and more of a possible choice than before and that Sakurai can change his mind on third parties if fans show very good reasons on why she should be in, and there are plenty of them available.

There you go again, a large chunk of your argument is based on your own assumptions on what Sakurai may or may not do. We have actual evidence of what to expect of a third party, and absolutely no evidence suggesting to the contrary.

It's not much of a chance raiser or anything, but it's a reminder to Sakurai that the franchise isn't dead.

Yeah, I don't think retro characters can really apply for third-parties here.

Based on a few interviews about Kamiya here and how he would like to make sequels for certain franchises, I'm sure Bayonetta isn't dead yet. If this tweet is in any indication:
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/357364545003601920

Can't compare to retros? That's ironic. You've been comparing her to regular Nintendo characters this whole time.

I feel bad for you there, just because the developer teases a sequel doesn't mean it's happening. I know that pain all too well.

But again, you cannot use the "standards" of Nintendo characters for third party characters. Her having a "living franchise" means absolutely nothing. Mega Man and Pac-Man are both dead in the water and Sonic isn't far behind them.

And it is certainly a hit right now with the raving reviews it's getting, Bayonetta 3 will probably happen someday, but not this year because I think it's too early and Bayonetta 2 has just release months ago and it's only in it's baby steps.

Not really, she is certainly iconic and recognizable to a noticeable extent (moreso than average eShop game that gets released every week), I've seen her in many gaming websites with many using her as avatars and people praising her games, just not as iconic as the legendary 3 we have right now. You gotta stop comparing her to them. It's getting really misleading.

Good reviews =/= iconic.

Elvis Presley is iconic, his music lives on long after his death and people around the world know him regardless of if they listen to his music or not. Mario, Pac-Man, etc are comparable to this, even someone with vague knowledge of games knows them and two of them are still living on legacy alone. You have some weird assumption that because Bayonetta has fans, she's somehow iconic. Every character has fans, how does someone using a Bayonetta avatar mean anything? I'm using a Lip avatar, is she suddenly iconic? She caused a minor amount of notice when her second game was Wii U exclusive, but that is not even close to being iconic. You can argue all you want about how many fans she has and I won't disagree with you, but you're just flat out incorrectly using a word.

She has to be compared to them because they are the bar she has to meet yet is nowhere near, third party characters are a special case, for far more than one reason. Until Sakurai says "I don't care who it is, if they've been in a game then it's possible" then the iconic status holds true. You might take it as me talking down Bayonetta, but that's not the case. She's just a character that is currently popular (key word, popular, not iconic) but will more likely than not fade into obscurity. I will completely change my mind if this somehow changes, but that's the point where you're jumping the gun too soon, you haven't even given her a decade to prove herself. Hell, the first game is getting old and she still only has two games, if that isn't a bad sign then I don't know what is. There are so many characters that people would have told you were icons during their time, but they didn't last.

 

[Champ Gold]

There you go again, a large chunk of your argument is based on your own assumptions on what Sakurai may or may not do. We have actual evidence of what to expect of a third party, and absolutely no evidence suggesting to the contrary.


Can't compare to retros? That's ironic. You've been comparing her to regular Nintendo characters this whole time.

I feel bad for you there, just because the developer teases a sequel doesn't mean it's happening. I know that pain all too well.

But again, you cannot use the "standards" of Nintendo characters for third party characters. Her having a "living franchise" means absolutely nothing. Mega Man and Pac-Man are both dead in the water and Sonic isn't far behind them.

Good reviews =/= iconic.

Elvis Presley is iconic, his music lives on long after his death and people around the world know him regardless of if they listen to his music or not. Mario, Pac-Man, etc are comparable to this, even someone with vague knowledge of games knows them and two of them are still living on legacy alone. You have some weird assumption that because Bayonetta has fans, she's somehow iconic. Every character has fans, how does someone using a Bayonetta avatar mean anything? I'm using a Lip avatar, is she suddenly iconic? She caused a minor amount of notice when her second game was Wii U exclusive, but that is not even close to being iconic. You can argue all you want about how many fans she has and I won't disagree with you, but you're just flat out incorrectly using a word.

She has to be compared to them because they are the bar she has to meet yet is nowhere near, third party characters are a special case, for far more than one reason. Until Sakurai says "I don't care who it is, if they've been in a game then it's possible" then the iconic status holds true. You might take it as me talking down Bayonetta, but that's not the case. She's just a character that is currently popular (key word, popular, not iconic) but will more likely than not fade into obscurity. I will completely change my mind if this somehow changes, but that's the point where you're jumping the gun too soon, you haven't even given her a decade to prove herself. Hell, the first game is getting old and she still only has two games, if that isn't a bad sign then I don't know what is. There are so many characters that people would have told you were icons during their time, but they didn't last.

I agree but I feel like with fanbase of Smash iconic and popular separation seems blurred. Considering the choices of other 3rd party characters for the ballot like Rayman, Banjo, Shantae and even the likes of Phoenix Wright and Prof. Layton aren't iconic in any sense of the word but are pretty popular choices from fans.

Plus Iconic characters are too far few from between. And those iconic characters aren't even either Nintendo related from their games being on their consoles to being mostly a Sony/Xbox character.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I agree but I feel like with fanbase of Smash iconic and popular separation seems blurred. Considering the choices of other 3rd party characters for the ballot like Rayman, Banjo, Shantae and even the likes of Phoenix Wright and Prof. Layton aren't iconic in any sense of the word but are pretty popular choices from fans.

Plus Iconic characters are too far few from between. And those iconic characters aren't even either Nintendo related from their games being on their consoles to being mostly a Sony/Xbox character.

and yet those few characters that are uber iconic are the only type of 3rd parties playable.

I said i wouldnt get involved

 

[JamesDNaux]

I agree but I feel like with fanbase of Smash iconic and popular separation seems blurred. Considering the choices of other 3rd party characters for the ballot like Rayman, Banjo, Shantae and even the likes of Phoenix Wright and Prof. Layton aren't iconic in any sense of the word but are pretty popular choices from fans.

Plus Iconic characters are too far few from between. And those iconic characters aren't even either Nintendo related from their games being on their consoles to being mostly a Sony/Xbox character.

Rayman is an iconic character, 20 years with 50+ games and he's the mascot of one of the largest game developers.

Though as much as I wish he wasn't, Banjo is even worse off than Bayonetta.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Can you give me a link to the artical that confirms the PSABR argument, I can't find it anywhere.

http://www.examiner.com/article/son...ix-collab-playstation-all-stars-battle-royale
This help?

 

[Champ Gold]

Rayman is an iconic character, 20 years with 50+ games and he's the mascot of one of the largest game developers.

Though as much as I wish he wasn't, Banjo is even worse off than Bayonetta.

Not really. And he is a mascot of Ubisoft but not someone I'll call iconic. I mean for almost 3-4 years before Origins and Legends, the Rabbids were MORE popular than Rayman himself.

I feel like iconic is stretching it.