Character Discussion Thread

[Cutie Gwen]

JACK FROST FOR SMASH.

Yes I will keep plugging this guy any time that extra third parties under our current companies gets brought up xD

That's from an Atlus game? Cute af. Need to play the Persona games some day

 

[Diddy Kong]

Secondary Sega characters... Yes, with Ryu most likely being in, I can see why such discusion would excist now.

Still don't like the idea. And never will.

What I fear most is the day we're going to see Shadow the Hedgehog. I dreaded this idea during the Brawl speculation, and I still dread it now.

 

[Spinosaurus]

That's from an Atlus game? Cute af. Need to play the Persona games some day

Might want to play a Shin Megami Tensei game if you want the actual demons (particularly Jack Frost) to have actual significant roles.

 

[Burruni]

That's from an Atlus game? Cute af. Need to play the Persona games some day

That is actually the Demon who has basically become the MASCOT for Atlus. In fact, he two other "Jack" demons being Pyro Jack and Jack the Ripper starred in a virtual boy game Jack Bros. How more dedicated can you be to Nintendo then letting your character be on THAT system?!

TAKE IN THE EYE CANCER AND LET THIS LITTLE DEVIL HEE-HO THE HOO-HAH!

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

A lot of people request Bayonetta because they think she's a Nintendo character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Still highly requested enough for Sakurai to notice anyway, it's not like that matters at all.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Still highly requested enough for Sakurai to notice anyway, it's not like that matters at all.

It does though...

They're not gonna use their coinage for just any popular third party.

Bayonetta is neat, but not a gaming titan.

 

[BluePikmin11]

You don't know that if it's the case for DLC, Sakurai could still use a non-iconic third party if he wanted to.

 

[MainJPW]

What I fear most is the day we're going to see Shadow the Hedgehog. I dreaded this idea during the Brawl speculation, and I still dread it now.

I mean, if we were to get a second Sonic character I don't really see why Shadow would come over someone like Tails or even Knuckles.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You don't know that if it's the case for DLC.

Ryu

Sakurai could still use a non-iconic third party if he wanted to.

Sakurai could also quit and become a scientologist.

Saying it COULD happen is a very bad argument, Blue...

 

[Diddy Kong]

I mean, if we were to get a second Sonic character I don't really see why Shadow would come over someone like Tails or even Knuckles.

But what if we get another Lucina / Dark Pit situation? / = Tails / Knuckles / = Shadow.

I AM GETTING SCARED AGAIN!

 

[Wolfie557]

If Tharja's trophy was removed likely due to avoiding higher age ratings, I highly doubt Bayonetta is the sort of character that would be considered for Smash.

This is Bayonetta’s equivalent to Ridley’s “Too big!” argument. Both “arguments” are stupid, foolish and not well thought-through at all. The standard costumes from both Bayonetta games as well as most of the additional costumes are no more revealing than some of the costumes which are already in Smash Bros. Inherently she’s no more sexual than Zero Suit Samus when acting normally as usual and when there are no Team Little Angel’s ultra exaggerated close up poses in those very few cutscenes across the two main games. She is much less revealing than a Shirtless Shulk or ZZS and with Lady Palutena on the sexy poses list already, some potential taunts would also be perfectly acceptable. If anything, all you’d have to do is make the Wicked Weaves not strip her while showing the epic hair effects similar to the process in Bayonetta and cut the cursing - that is, if Wicked Weaves do come into play.

No, I did say Japan did the same.

Only in Europe do FEA and Smash 4 have the same age rating.

For Japan and North America, FEA has higher age ratings than Smash.


Bayonetta without being sexually explicit and provocative isn't Bayonetta.

It's not just the sexual stuff. It's her entire personality.

If you censor the sexual explicitness and her provocative one-liners, all the appeal of her character is gone. She's meant to be a femme fatale. She's meant to be daring.

For her to be in Smash, she would have to be toned down a lot to preserve the lighthearted tone of the game, but doing so would destroy what makes her character unique and appealing. It would remove what makes Bayonetta what she is.

Even Ganondorf, with his ever-controversial Falcon semi-clone status, has the essential points about his character there: he's evil, he's powerful, he has dark magical powers. You can look at him and note he's evil and very powerful.

As mentioned in the first countered-argument, there honestly isn’t much to tone down at all, therefore the vast majority of Bayonetta shall remain the same. And after all, her personality is arguably much more significant than what she chooses to wear and do. Bayonetta's main personality would easily be able to shine through.

I’m sure Bayonetta fans like myself would be very happy to see one of their most beloved characters in such a game like Smash Bros. It would certainly be a huge privilege to Bayonetta’s fans and her developers alike. Afterall, isn’t one of the main reasons why we want characters in Smash Bros because we simply like them that much?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Well seeing as Shadow is an AT, I don't think it would be worth worrying over til the day Smash 5 comes around (If it ever does)

This is Bayonetta’s equivalent to Ridley’s “Too big!” argument. Both “arguments” are stupid, foolish and not well thought-through at all.

Well hilariously enough, that "Too big!" argument has kept Ridley from playable status again. No reason the sex appeal would not if that's how Sakurai feels, and if Tharja (Who is from a T-rated game) had to get censored, Bayo has little shot imho.

 

[Frostwraith]

But Japan is the only one with the Tharja trophy, I was moreso talking about the only one that censored it, Japan had the trophy and Europe had the same agerating

The Japanese version DOESN'T have the Tharja trophy.

The trophy was removed in all versions.

 

[FalKoopa]

You don't know that if it's the case for DLC, Sakurai could still use a non-iconic third party if he wanted to.

'Could happen' can mean a 0.5% chance or a 99.5% chance. It's not an good argument.

 

[Wolfie557]

A lot of people request Bayonetta because they think she's a Nintendo character.

Never personally seen someone say she is 1st party yet.

And I've seen quite a lot of Bayonetta voters...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is Bayonetta’s equivalent to Ridley’s “Too big!” argument. Both “arguments” are stupid, foolish and not well thought-through at all.

And yet they were right in the end.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ryu

Not really enough evidence for me, I suggest waiting for a few more third-party inclusions before we can finalize that statement.

Saying it COULD happen is a very bad argument, Blue...

If any video-game character is eligible in the ballot, then it justifies my statement that Bayonetta and every other popular third-party are very possible choices since Sakurai is open to any third-party.

 

[MainJPW]

But what if we get another Lucina / Dark Pit situation? / = Tails / Knuckles / = Shadow.

I AM GETTING SCARED AGAIN!

Well you would't have to worry seeing as...

Well seeing as Shadow is an AT, I don't think it would be worth worrying over til the day Smash 5 comes around (If it ever does)

See?

 

[Wolfie557]

And yet they were right in the end.

Ridley =/= Bayonetta

You are assuming it's the same thing, which is clearly not and hence Sakurai's opinion may differ greatly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The Japanese version DOESN'T have the Tharja trophy.

The trophy was removed in all versions.

Didn't know that

And yet they were right in the end.

Though Ridley's argument had holes. huehue bayonetta holes

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not really enough evidence for me, I suggest waiting for a few more third-party inclusions before we can finalize that statement..

We're not gonna get a lot mate...

And even then.

, Ryu should be enough proof.

If any video-game character is eligible in the ballot, then it justifies my statement that Bayonetta and every other popular third-party are very possible choices since Sakurai is open to any third-party.

That's assuming quite a lot.

It said you could vote for any character.

Sakurai never said he was open to anyone.

Ridley =/= Bayonetta

I was countering your analogy.

I know that a giant purple space dragon (whom I love) and a sexy witch (whom I love in a different way )are not one in the same.

But the similarities between their circumstances do exist.

Though Ridley's argument had holes. huehue bayonetta holes

Hey man, you know I want the Ridmeister desperately, but other people were right.

Sakurai thinks he's too big in his current state.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ridley and holes... How this brings back memories.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We're not gonna get a lot mate...

And even then.

, Ryu should be enough proof.


That's assuming quite a lot.

It said you could vote for any character.

Sakurai never said he was open to anyone.


I was countering your analogy.

I know that a giant purple space dragon (whom I love) and a sexy witch (whom I love in a different way )are not one in the same.

But the similarities between their circumstances do exist.


Hey man, you know I want the Ridmeister desperately, but other people were right.

Sakurai thinks he's too big in his current state.

I'm going to be honest, I only quoted you so I could make a sex joke, not for a debate. I personally disregard pretty much anything Sakurai says, even on his Chrom reason despite my joy of the thought of Chrom never being playable

 

[Wolfie557]

I was countering your analogy.

I know that a giant purple space dragon (whom I love) and a sexy witch (whom I love in a different way )are not one in the same.

But the similarities between their circumstances do exist.

So what are they?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So what are they?

• Character is popular request
• Majority thinks its unlikely due to the character "Not fitting" for whatever reason
• Supporters deny argument fiercely
• Ends in failure....

 

[Wolfie557]

Well seeing as Shadow is an AT, I don't think it would be worth worrying over til the day Smash 5 comes around (If it ever does)



Well hilariously enough, that "Too big!" argument has kept Ridley from playable status again. No reason the sex appeal would not if that's how Sakurai feels, and if Tharja (Who is from a T-rated game) had to get censored, Bayo has little shot imho.

obviously this would be removed.

Spoiler

While Bayonetta would not need to 'strip' anything during wicked weave attacks, as the hair animation can still go on without that.

• Character is popular request
• Majority thinks its unlikely due to the character "Not fitting" for whatever reason
• Supporters deny argument fiercely
• Ends in failure....

Only because supporters of other characters don't want her.
The end in failure bit is a long way off. ......and happens to the vast majority of potential fighters.

 

[Burruni]

So what are they?

Not being playable in Smash
The fact that both characters were designed with a mentality that doesn't translate well into Smash. Ridley's intent was to be a huge dragon-looking creature that was the most physical representation of Samus's fears and weaknesses as, in almost every case, the penultimate boss in a game. Bayonetta was designed to be an embodiment of female power fantasies while being riddled with the over-the-top action and sexual jokes made famous by Devil May Cry about a decade before Bayonetta.
"Inherently she’s no more sexual than Zero Suit Samus when acting normally as usual" is a lie as a fan of both series. Zero Suit Samus is a hyper-weakened state that revolves around dodging enemies through platforming and stealth wearing a fairly skintight suit. The fact that Bayonetta's outfit sheds more and more until she's in just a sling bikini as her combos evolve out into more advanced attacks, the Tortune Attacks, and Umbra Climaxes are canon sexuality in gameplay, not cutscenes.

 

[Wolfie557]

Not being playable in Smash
The fact that both characters were designed with a mentality that doesn't translate well into Smash. Ridley's intent was to be a huge dragon-looking creature that was the most physical representation of Samus's fears and weaknesses as, in almost every case, the penultimate boss in a game. Bayonetta was designed to be an embodiment of female power fantasies while being riddled with the over-the-top action and sexual jokes made famous by Devil May Cry about a decade before Bayonetta.
"Inherently she’s no more sexual than Zero Suit Samus when acting normally as usual" is a lie as a fan of both series. Zero Suit Samus is a hyper-weakened state that revolves around dodging enemies through platforming and stealth. The fact that Bayonetta's outfit sheds more and more until she's in just a sling bikini as her combos evolve out into more advanced attacks, the Tortune Attacks, and Umbra Climaxes are canon sexuality in gameplay, not cutscenes.

with the quote, I meant within Smash.
Like I said many times before, her outfit would not shed at all, which would also not impact who the character is.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It can be proof, but that proof can easily be squashed if Sakurai changed his mind on third-parties. If the off-chance Sakurai can change his mind on fighting game characters, he can certainly change his mind on other third-parties too.

That's assuming quite a lot.

It said you could vote for any character.

Sakurai never said he was open to anyone.

It looks like it is the case, Sakurai could've told to Nintendo that only Nintendo characters are eligible in the ballot, but he didn't, he let any video game character to be voted on the ballot, which could potentially mean he's open to other third party character ideas too. There was probably a lot of thought put into it when he made this decision.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually, how many characters has Sakurai deliberately said no too?
Villager-Wouldn't fit in a fighting game due to peaceful nature-Playable now
Chrom-Too similar to Marth and Ike in comparison to Robin-Skills can be used for a unique moveset
Takamaru-Assumed not popular enough despite appearing in quite a few games, including Murasame GBA which sold well iirc, something that would determine his spot in a previous interview-Blatant lies
Ridley-Multiple reasons though not all make sense-Blatant lies and bias
Ryu-Fighting game characters wouldn't fit in smash to Sakurai-DLC
Excitebiker-No realistic aerial animations-Lack of creativity

 

[Wolfie557]

Actually, how many characters has Sakurai deliberately said no too?
Villager-Wouldn't fit in a fighting game due to peaceful nature-Playable now
Chrom-Too similar to Marth and Ike in comparison to Robin-Skills can be used for a unique moveset
Takamaru-Assumed not popular enough despite appearing in quite a few games, including Murasame GBA which sold well iirc, something that would determine his spot in a previous interview-Blatant lies
Ridley-Multiple reasons though not all make sense-Blatant lies and bias
Ryu-Fighting game characters wouldn't fit in smash to Sakurai-DLC
Excitebiker-No realistic aerial animations-Lack of creativity

Pac-Man - Suggested by Miyamoto during Brawl but (correct me if I'm wrong here) couldn't think of a good moveset.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Ryu-Fighting game characters wouldn't fit in smash to Sakurai-DLC

actually this was untrue. the fans misconstrued it. I believe it was something like fighting characters must bring something unique to the table

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Pac-Man - Suggested by Miyamoto during Brawl but (correct me if I'm wrong here) couldn't think of a good moveset.

Oh yeah! Thought it was because Sakurai thought he was silly

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It can be proof, but that proof can easily be squashed if Sakurai changed his mind on third-parties. If the off-chance Sakurai can change his mind on fighting game characters, he can certainly change his mind on other third-parties too.


It looks like it is the case, Sakurai could've told to Nintendo that only Nintendo characters are eligible in the ballot, but he didn't, he let any video game character to be voted on the ballot, which could potentially mean he's open to other third party character ideas too. There was probably a lot of thought put into it when he made this decision.

Actually.

The thing about Fighting Game characters was a mistranslation.

Wasn't it @PushDustIn ?


Regardless, he allowed it to be open ended.

That doesn't mean he's open to anything. You're making a false connection.

 

[Burruni]

Actually, how many characters has Sakurai deliberately said no too?
Villager-Wouldn't fit in a fighting game due to peaceful nature-Playable now
Chrom-Too similar to Marth and Ike in comparison to Robin-Skills can be used for a unique moveset
Takamaru-Assumed not popular enough despite appearing in quite a few games, including Murasame GBA which sold well iirc, something that would determine his spot in a previous interview-Blatant lies
Ridley-Multiple reasons though not all make sense-Blatant lies and bias
Ryu-Fighting game characters wouldn't fit in smash to Sakurai-DLC
Excitebiker-No realistic aerial animations-Lack of creativity

: Totally Granted. He changed his mind. A game later after the series became far more popular.
Chrom: Of the two major protagonists of Awakening, Sakurai saw more appeal in a magiknight. Is there really an argument against it?
Takamaru: Not popular enough of a Retro without being tied to a piece of hardware () or being part of a unique gimmick ()
Ridley: Fits better as a boss. He's a Charizard with the lankiness of Waluigi. That's his philosophy and there is a significant chunk of people who aggree with him.
Ryu: NEVER BLATANTLY SAID NO. HE SAID THAT FIGHTING GAME CHARACTERS DIDN'T INTEREST HIM AS MUCH TO TRY TO SHOW OFF IN SMASH.
ExciteBiker: We already got a biker that encompassses almost everything about Excite Bike.

 

[A Distant Demon]

The biggest feature we look at in Smash Bros. is, ‘What does this character bring to Smash Bros. that other characters don’t?’ If you look at… someone from a fighting game already, and people like fighting with this character, from my point of view, it’s like ‘this guy does what this guy already does. He fills the role that this character already has. So while you may like this character and he’s interesting, that doesn’t really merge well, here

found it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

actually this was untrue. the fans misconstrued it. I believe it was something like fighting characters must bring something unique to the table

Ryu isn't exactly that unique, although different enough, Hadouken, Shoryuken and Tatsumaki Senpukyaku were in Mario's moveset

 

[Wolfie557]

Actually.

The thing about Fighting Game characters was a mistranslation.

Wasn't it @PushDustIn ?


Regardless, he allowed it to be open ended.

That doesn't mean he's open to anything. You're making a false connection.

Obviously he wouldn't count suggestions like Shrek, Goku or 'reckless silhouette guy'.

But you never know about characters that actually make at least some sense, like Krystal, Bayonetta, Waddle Dee, Rayman ect.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Ryu isn't exactly that unique, although different enough, Hadouken, Shoryuken and Tatsumaki Senpukyaku were in Mario's moveset

down b is not at all like spin kick.

neither is the fireball the same as the hadouken