Character Discussion Thread

[humist1]

So far almost everyone i've talked to that wanted Chrom hasn't played awakening.

 

[?????????????]

I meant more so an avatar character using hammer space to attack. It has to do more with the lack of thrills and chills after we've gotten some interesting ideas brought to the table, it would just feel lacking. It's sort of like why I think revealing Chrom would cause a negative response at this point in time.

Hm...maybe. Purely from a "thrill" or "hype" standpoint, I could see that from both prospects, when compared to the newcomers that have been offered so far.

Even so, I think both Miis and Chrom have enough supporters to generate a positive reaction, and enough to offer as new characters.

Out of curiousity...how would you feel about Dixie in this regard?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Out of curiousity...how would you feel about Dixie in this regard?

I still say people underestimate Dixie too much.

She's a perfectly fine character, especially now that the Diddy & Dixie thing is dead in it's tracks.

 

[andimidna]

Looks like a certain someone hasn't been talked about for a while on this thread

Spoiler

MIDNA >:D

Click to see the full-size image, I dare you.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Looks like a certain someone hasn't been talked about for a while on this thread

10/10 would-

...Yeah Midna is alright. Would be great, but highly unlikely.

Still looking for feedback on the aesthetics on this, not the characters on it. The border feels bland to me but I'm not sure what else I can do.
[collapse=]

[/collapse]

 

[CalumG]

Midna has never been a character I can really get behind. She sits among characters like Zant, Geno, Skull Kid and the Metroid Prime Hunters as a one-hit-wonder character, not destined to appear again.

If Sakurai can come up with a unique and fun gimmick for her (a la Rosalina), I wouldn't be against it (how a character plays is the most important thing, after all) but on character merit alone I don't think she's got what it takes, especially against the likes of other Zelda characters - not to mention the fact that Twilight Princess is slowly growing to be considered as one of the 'weaker' 3D Zelda titles and Nintendo has been moving away from that direction somewhat.

 

[?????????????]

Still looking for feedback on the aesthetics on this, not the characters on it. The border feels bland to me but I'm not sure what else I can do.

Aesthetics, eh? I think it's very pleasing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so please feel free to ignore my suggestions, but if I were the one making this, I would put in-game based banners on the sides of the logo on the top (like a "Back" banner on the right and a "2:00 Minute KO Fest!" or "3-Stock Survial" banner on the left, or something like that). I also would have given each character one unified matching background, although the individualized colors is kinda cool.

 

[volbound1700]

I would love a Midna/Wolf Link combo. However, any new Zelda character would make me happy.

I would pick Skull Kid over the rest.

 

[False Sense]

Looks like a certain someone hasn't been talked about for a while on this thread

Spoiler

MIDNA >:D

Click to see the full-size image, I dare you.

Actually, there was a small discussion on Midna a few pages back.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

No, that's ZSS's Side Special. Her Neutral Special is the paralyzing shot.

We're talking about SMASH attacks.

I've gotten into nothing, but clone debates lately.

 

[AEMehr]

Little Mac did have a Wii Reboot (Punch-Out! on the Wii) but whether that counts or not... I'm sure the final roster will show us that.

I'm aware of this, as I am sure everybody else on this entire forum is.
–––

The difference is that he appeared in Punch Out!! for Wii before appearing in Smash, while Pit appeared in Smash before appearing in Kid Icarus: Uprising. Little Mac has been revived already, Sakurai does not need to revive him because he is revived already.

Punch-Out!! Wii is essentially the original Punch-Out!! with a lot more personality in it. That doesn't mean I don't like it or anything, but when it comes to a franchise getting a "revival"... Kid Icarus's crazy genre spin makes it much more "revived" than Punch-Out!!'s Wii game.
–––

A: He's not that old

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch-Out!!_(NES)
25 Years is pretty old in my book.

B: He's not a retro no matter how you want to twist your personal view on what retros are.

Twist my personal views? Uh, what? Punch-Out!! Wii is the closet thing we have to Classic Nintendo gaming in our current generation (or previous, I should say. Current Gen's would probably be Tropical Freeze).
A revitalized franchise or character would be Pit, as Uprising is literally in an entirely different GENRE than the older games.

Little Mac works as a retro character like that. -And no I didn't say Donkey Kong is a retro character so don't even suggest that I did.

I don't think you should intentionally, take Sakurai's quotes so loosely. I thought about using "older characters" as a defense for Samurai Goroh, but I think it's pretty obvious that he's referring to retros.

It's obvious he's referring to older Nintendo characters and Little Mac IS an older Nintendo character.
–––

The roster is meant to be very minimalistic with no-cuts, I originally aimed for 44 characters and I still felt like I needed 45 to get everyone I felt was necessary in there. If I went for a 50 character roster it would have a "formal" retro character, maybe even two!

BUT I was not aiming for anything higher than 45 characters and I believe that there are more ways to bring back other older Nintendo characters through other means...
Stages, Trophies, Stickers, and even Songs. Maybe even through this character customization process if we can customize the character's appearance too.

I've never said that a formal retro character isn't going to happen or if I have any bias against them. I even support Mach Rider and Muddy Mole and have had both of them, Takamaru, and Lip in previous rosters that were larger than 45 characters. The entire point of this roster was to suggest that a retro may not be in the roster it's got 45 characters with no-cuts (Of course, I suppose one could fit in Shulk's place).

 

[JamesDNaux]

Aesthetics, eh? I think it's very pleasing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so please feel free to ignore my suggestions, but if I were the one making this, I would put in-game based banners on the sides of the logo on the top (like a "Back" banner on the right and a "2:00 Minute KO Fest!" or "3-Stock Survial" banner on the left, or something like that). I also would have given each character one unified matching background, although the individualized colors is kinda cool.

I thought about doing the select screen options, but I didn't feel like trying to make it look like a pass-off of the actual screen, I'd like to keep it simple as well. For the characters, do you think black or white (or something else) would look better? Any ideas as to where else I could implement their page colour? I tried the borders once. My current one has the colours only on confirmed characters, while unconfirmed veterans have white squares and possible newcomers have black ones.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

25 Years is pretty old in my book.

I mean his last game was 5 years ago.

Twist my personal views? Uh, what? Punch-Out!! Wii is the closet thing we have to Classic Nintendo gaming

Sakurai said he was looking for older characters. That does not define a character as retro because they are 5 years old. I think Sakurai used the term "older characters" loosely, actually referring to his set definition of retros.

A revitalized franchise or character would be Pit, as Uprising is literally in an entirely different GENRE than the older games.

So F-Zero was a retro franchise during Brawl? Despite that it was 3 years old? It's an old game that kept the same genre.

Little Mac works as a retro character like that.

Says you! This is YOUR definition of retro, not Sakurai's.

It's obvious he's referring to older Nintendo characters and Little Mac IS an older Nintendo character.

Maybe I misspoke. I wouldn't take Sakurai's quotes LITERALLY.

The roster is meant to be very minimalistic with no-cuts, I originally aimed for 44 characters and I still felt like I needed 45 to get everyone I felt was necessary in there. If I went for a 50 character roster it would have a "formal" retro character, maybe even two!

Same here. Except I would not consider a 45 roster realistic, let alone 44! I think the lowest is 48 and the highest is 50. And you should also take into consideration how many newcomers TOTAL. You can have more than one newcomer in one slot. Like Pokemon Trainer or Toon Zelda/Tetra.

 

[andimidna]

Midna has never been a character I can really get behind. She sits among characters like Zant, Geno, Skull Kid and the Metroid Prime Hunters as a one-hit-wonder character, not destined to appear again.

If Sakurai can come up with a unique and fun gimmick for her (a la Rosalina), I wouldn't be against it (how a character plays is the most important thing, after all) but on character merit alone I don't think she's got what it takes, especially against the likes of other Zelda characters - not to mention the fact that Twilight Princess is slowly growing to be considered as one of the 'weaker' 3D Zelda titles and Nintendo has been moving away from that direction somewhat.

Imp Midna could switch between using Wolf Link and being alone. She'd be a mage type character alone, but with Wolf Link she becomes a quadruped unable to take damage from below, just like Nana doesn't affect Popo's damage, Wolf Link would be like a giant shield from below. Her Final Smash would turn her into her fused shadow form, a large monster with a spear. And at the end, she'd transform to Princess Midna (like ZSS in a way). Her True Form could wield the Twilight Sword for basic attacks, unused items for specials, and magic type moves for the rest. Imagine her using the unused sword skills like the helm splitter, great spin, etc. Imagine her using the Ball and Chain, Dominion Rod, Spinner, or maybe even some not in Twilight Princess. A combination of a magic/item/sword character is something I want to see. Magic orbs, warping, telaporting away anyhing no matter how Ridley big it is, separating into a bunch of tiny Twili particles, beloved Zelda items, a spear, a Twilight Sword powerful enough to revive Stallord, energy field, claws, scratches... there's a lot to work with.

Something I see as more likely is Link transforming into Wolf Link (with Midna on his back) after his Final Smash, but I wanted to show how unique she COULD be.

Twilight Princess is the best selling and 2nd best rated Zelda, not sure what your talking about there. Moving away? Zelda U Demo suggests that's not the case.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So this would be my take on a 48 character roster (though I stand by my last one more.)

• My only doubt with Roy is his potential. I mostly stand by Robin because the Tactician has appeared two times, will likely become a staple, and is very unique as well as a different unit.
• Also please excuse my lack of a second retro.

@ AEMehr : Thanks for the icons

 

[andimidna]

So this would be my take on a 48 character roster (though I stand by my last one more.)

View attachment 9227

• My only doubt with Roy is his potential. I mostly stand by Robin because the Tactician has appeared two times, will likely become a staple, and is very unique as well as a different unit.
• Also please excuse my lack of a second retro.

@ AEMehr : Thanks for the icons

If you want to pick a FE semi-clone so much... why Roy over Chrom or Lucina?

 

[Jaedrik]

Midna has never been a character I can really get behind. She sits among characters like Zant, Geno, Skull Kid and the Metroid Prime Hunters as a one-hit-wonder character, not destined to appear again.

Midna is the only one I would get behind. . .
if you know what I mean
lolololololololololinnuendolololololololololol
I'm. . . I-I should go to bed now.

Edit: James, I blame your Midna avatars.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If you want to pick a FE semi-clone so much... why Roy over Chrom or Lucina?

Because fire.

 

[andimidna]

Midna is the only one I would get behind. . .
if you know what I mean
lolololololololololinnuendolololololololololol
I'm. . . I-I should go to bed now.

Thanks for the link to the Anna thread! I was trying to find it earlier!

And Saturn... why do you feel so strongly towards clones
1) Higher standards have been set this time around
2) There's more on the line... the success of this game could be great for the Wii U, a clone won't destroy that... but why hurt the hype with any disappointment?
There are so many unique classes in Fire Emblem that could easily be made unique... Roy was just a last minute choice for a game 13 years ago... they almost put Leif as the FE clone too. It's not like they've ever really shown much Roy love. He has his merits of course... but people are looking for something new... new character w/ unique moveset>new moveset for old character>new clone>old clone without a doubt.

I still want to play as a Manakete.

Because fire.

Well I sure can't think of a multiple characters that already have moves involving fire.
Even besides

People say Chrom and Lucina would HAVE to be a clone mix of Ike and Marth... but Roy pretty much is that already. I put them as a team... why add characters for no point? If they add nothing, they better be very popular and recent. This is just part of some of the standards that have been set with the new character gimmicks. The only characters I consider extremely unique outside of SSB4's newcomers would be:
And I consider everybody except Wii Fit Trainer unique this time around. So half have been added in this game... you can't argue clones because of patterns. Patterns justifying anything implies Sakurai is a robot. And I'm pretty sure he's not... so anything is fair game. Like not having 2 Pokemon newcomers, no new Starfox rep, not adding a new Small Link replacing the old one (which has been confirmed to not be happening)... and more.

 

[AEMehr]

I mean his last game was 5 years ago.

Well that doesn't make him any less younger. It's not like Mario is suddenly a fresh face in the gaming industry because of 3D World being released in November.

Sakurai said he was looking for older characters. That does not define a character as retro because they are 5 years old. I think Sakurai used the term "older characters" loosely, actually referring to his set definition of retros.

Well I think he just said "older characters" because it's what he's interested in having "older characters" in the game somehow. Whether it's by playable means or not has yet to be seen.

So F-Zero was a retro franchise during Brawl? Despite that it was 3 years old? It's an old game that kept the same genre.

F-Zero is (or was) much more into the public eye than Punch-Out!! is. It's anime being a key factor in it's Japanese popularity. From a gaming perspective I'd say that you could consider him Retro, but the anime is what keeps the franchise as a whole relevant.

Says you! This is YOUR definition of retro, not Sakurai's.

From what I can tell Retro characters represent a certain system. Only retro characters thus far that really reflect this are the Ice Climbers to specifically represent the NES and Pit for apparently the Famicom (But I have seen some sources Pit was added because he was a "Popular" candidate).
So this would make Little Mac represent the Arcade since, as previously mentioned, the arcade versions of Punch-Out!! seem to be focused a big focus in his promotional material / moveset. In fact, I believe we haven't even seen the Star Punch yet. Which just adds to the possibility of him being a more classically focused character.

Maybe I misspoke. I wouldn't take Sakurai's quotes LITERALLY.

Maybe not, but like I said I couldn't fit in a formal retro character in there. So Little Mac is the retro character in this roster.

Same here. Except I would not consider a 45 roster realistic, let alone 44! I think the lowest is 48 and the highest is 50. And you should also take into consideration how many newcomers TOTAL. You can have more than one newcomer in one slot. Like Pokemon Trainer or Toon Zelda/Tetra[/quote

Having only 8 newcomers may sound like a stretch, (I'm not even a big fan of it myself), but given that Sakurai has said that he believes the team needs a change of direction I think that this happening could be a thing.

As for my total amount of actual playable characters, 48. 52 counting the optional custom ones you send in from the 3DS version. I find that to be a healthy amount, and it's fits the criteria for what you consider the lowest character amount and can be above what you deem the highest.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

@SaturnGamer64 my only personal qualm with your roster is no Shulk. I'm not a fan of Goroh but I know your position and won't attempt to change that.

I know you're not keen on Shulk, but he is a very possible candidate, and I think you should consider him.

 

[shrooby]

So this would be my take on a 48 character roster (though I stand by my last one more.)

That Ridley icon looks a little...off. The coloring I mean. It's seems too on the red side. Like it was cropped out of a screenshot where Ridley is in the lava-filled Pyrosphere, so the lighting is more reddish.
My only non-visual related qualm is the lack of K. Rool, but that's only one thing, so it's still good.

I still want to play as a Manakete.

And I want to play as a merchant, but we're both going to have to move on.

 

[Deleted member]

Are people arguing about Sakurai's definition of a "retro"....when he never gave one in the first place?

 

[andimidna]

@SaturnGamer64 my only personal qualm with your roster is no Shulk. I'm not a fan of Goroh but I know your position and won't attempt to change that.

I know you're not keen on Shulk, but he is a very possible candidate, and I think you should consider him.

This.
You don't have to add another F-Zero rep just because CFalcon has been in since the original. CFalcon is so recognizable now with his Falcon Punch, nobody else in the series can compare to half of CFalcon. Especially if it's from a racing series.
Scenario: Little Mac was added in the original Smash Bros over someone else and at the time, Punch Out had 4 games.
Another Punch Out game came inbetween 64 and Melee, but nobody from Punch Out was added.
6 Punch Out games came out inbetween Melee and Brawl, all it got was an assist (King Hippo).
No Punch Out games for a decade... does this series where all of the characters do the same thing, get a new rep now?
Another punch based moveset but what... slower and more powerful?
I just don't think so.
And yea, Samurai Goroh has a sword... but Smash Bros isn't at a major lack of sword characters... at all, and we all know this. It's one of the main reasons I hate when people put Magnus over Palutena.
Shulk seems much more viable. But he is a sword character too?
There are many more options in the series, and taken from a new series, there are more abilities able to be borrowed, but I don't think that'd even be needed. He has more moves in general... and more requests. And, most importantly, a new game announced for his series.
Which better happen to FZero too at E3 2014...

 

[FlareHabanero]

@ andimidna

I just don't give a **** about Fire Emblem anymore.

Just bring back Roy, because I want to watch the world burn.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

@ andimidna

I just don't give a **** about Fire Emblem anymore.

Just bring back Roy, because I want to watch the world burn.

At this point, I'm almost alright with just Marth and Ike, and not adding anybody.

 

[andimidna]

That Ridley icon looks a little...off. The coloring I mean. It's seems too on the red side. Like it was cropped out of a screenshot where Ridley is in the lava-filled Pyrosphere, so the lighting is more reddish.
My only non-visual related qualm is the lack of K. Rool, but that's only one thing, so it's still good.



And I want to play as a merchant, but we're both going to have to move on.

I want to play as a merchant AND a manakete .-.
They're basically the most recurring FE characters not included that people actually care about... it's a possibility. They have more moveset possibilities than many...

At this point, I'm almost alright with just Marth and Ike, and not adding anybody.

I think that has no chance of happening. If Sakurai neglects the idea of having a FE newcomer, I think he'll just take the easy route and add the old guy, Roy. Although I don't think he's going to overlook the series... if there's any existing series that really deserve a new rep based on the series' merits it'd be Fire Emblem, Donkey Kong, Kid Icarus, and Metroid.
Plus there are more viable options than any other series. Chrom, Lucina, Anna, Tiki, Roy, Robin, Lyn, Micaiah, Black Knight, Tharja, Lissa, Ephraim, Eirika, Leif, Gaius... the list goes on...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I want to play as a merchant AND a manakete .-.
They're basically the most recurring FE characters not included that people actually care about... it's a possibility. They have more moveset possibilities than many...

In the grand scheme of things, Anna and Tiki have virtually no popularity for Smash. Until they get that, they're incredibly unlikely. They might have vocal supporters here, but that doesn't mean much.

 

[Pazzo.]

I would love a Midna/Wolf Link combo. However, any new Zelda character would make me happy.

I would pick Skull Kid over the rest.

In a perfect world...

In the grand scheme of things, Anna and Tiki have virtually no popularity for Smash. Until they get that, they're incredibly unlikely. They might have vocal supporters here, but that doesn't mean much.

Popularity FOR Smash? What does that mean? Sorry for the ignorance.

 

[andimidna]

In the grand scheme of things, Anna and Tiki have virtually no popularity for Smash. Until they get that, they're incredibly unlikely. They might have vocal supporters here, but that doesn't mean much.

Smash could give them the popularity they deserve
Then as more people play Fire Emblem and it becomes a more consistent series (assumption), they will be much more recognizable and as a result will have larger roles. There aren't many in the series that can recurr really... Anna always will... as there is a long line of Annas... hell, there were a bunch of Annas in Awakening. And Tiki is a Manakete, so she's centuries old, it's actually the same Tiki in every game she appears in (I believe) and that's what will keep her roles coming.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Popularity FOR Smash? What does that mean? Sorry for the ignorance.

Take Shortie's poll for example. They don't get requested. They're not even close to say, Roy or Chrom. They might be reoccurring characters, but without the popularity to push them, they pretty much have nothing.

Don't even bring Wii Fit Trainer into this like a lot of people do. That's completely different. (not saying you will. I just see that a lot lol)

@ andimidna possibly, but what at the very least Anna lacks, in my opinion, is the ability to draw people to the game. Tiki could, but I just don't see the draw of adding Anna.

 

[shrooby]

@ andimidna

I just don't give a **** about Fire Emblem anymore.

Just bring back Roy, because I want to watch the world burn.

Roy will literally and figuratively be burning things.

I want to play as a merchant AND a manakete .-.
They're basically the most recurring FE characters not included that people actually care about... it's a possibility. They have more moveset possibilities than many...

Moveset possibilities? Yeah, I'll give the two of them that. But they're not popular enough in the grand scheme of things, which is pretty important. Even here they're not that popular. Hopefully Anna will get some more somewhat-significant roles in later games to get her popularity up. Unlike pretty much every Fire Emblem character, her chances aren't completely shot if she misses this time. (I mean, assuming there is a next one, but let's just assume there is.)

 

[FlareHabanero]

At this point, I'm almost alright with just Marth and Ike, and not adding anybody.

"almost"?

 

[Pazzo.]

Take Shortie's poll for example. They don't get requested. They're not even close to say, Roy or Chrom. They might be reoccurring characters, but without the popularity to push them, they pretty much have nothing.

Don't even bring Wii Fit Trainer into this like a lot of people do. That's completely different. (not saying you will. I just see that a lot lol)

I know what you mean, so don't worry bro.

Ah ha. I understand what you mean... but is Sakurai dependent on requests alone? To what point do they effect him? Megaman could be one case....

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

"almost"?

In general, I just feel like Fire Emblem should get another character, so in that line of thinking, I would want them to. But deep down, I would gladly forfeit a Fire Emblem character for someone like say, Shulk.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm fine with forfeiting both.

 

[Pazzo.]

I'm fine with forfeiting both.

For whom, my good Entei?

 

[Croph]

And Saturn... why do you feel so strongly towards clones
1) Higher standards have been set this time around
2) There's more on the line... the success of this game could be great for the Wii U, a clone won't destroy that... but why hurt the hype with any disappointment?
There are so many unique classes in Fire Emblem that could easily be made unique... Roy was just a last minute choice for a game 13 years ago... they almost put Leif as the FE clone too. It's not like they've ever really shown much Roy love. He has his merits of course... but people are looking for something new... new character w/ unique moveset>new moveset for old character>new clone>old clone without a doubt.

I still want to play as a Manakete.

Hey now, Roy got a lot of love too!

Roy's properties stood out and interested Sakurai, and he even said players would fall in love with Roy's "charm" (as evidence on the Melee website). In the end credits of FE6, Melee is credited and Sakurai is given a special thanks. How nice of IS! It's also worth mentioning that at some point after Melee, I believe I've read some IGN articles stating that FE6 was possibly going to be localized. Why? That's beyond me if true. I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS PLS KTHXBAI!! Roy also got a lovely redesign in Awakening, and is also the commander of all of the Elibe army for the Red vs. Blue DLC in Awakening. Goes to show you he holds some importance.

And he was planned for Brawl, but we know how Roy, and the rest of the planned fighters turned out. Still would like to see a Forbidden 7 character revealed, namely Mewtwo, soon.

I also wouldn't mind playing as a Manakete, though I'm not expecting one. I think Tiki has the best shot, but Idenn or Ninian (she still counts, right?) would be my personal pick.

And I consider everybody except Wii Fit Trainer unique this time around. So half have been added in this game... you can't argue clones because of patterns. Patterns justifying anything implies Sakurai is a robot. And I'm pretty sure he's not... so anything is fair game. Like not having 2 Pokemon newcomers, no new Starfox rep, not adding a new Small Link replacing the old one (which has been confirmed to not be happening)... and more.

Are people arguing clone inclusions because of patterns? I'm thinking we may see them if time restrains are in issue, but as a semi-clone (perhaps something like Wolf). I mean maybe Sakurai will pull a Melee and add clones to spice up the roster (I personally hope they're semi-clones), however, I'm not seeing it. Who knows... I would like to see if characters like Falco and Ganon are still clone-ish though. That's a big one for me.

I don't think Roy would get in because of some clone rule (if that's what we're arguing). It's more Sakurai likes to add in things he couldn't in previous installments (due to time restrains, limitations/resources, etc.), which expands to mechanics, characters, etc. and I think he would reconsider such characters like Roy, Mewtwo, Dixie, ect., as well take in other factors for said character's inclusion -- not really to add Roy because he's some clone. Maybe because he might be easier to implant, but I don't think that would be the main reason. At least, I hope not... but I guess it's better than nothing lol.

 

[Arcanir]

@ andimidna

I just don't give a **** about Fire Emblem anymore.

Just bring back Roy, because I want to watch the world burn.

Nah, if you really want the sparks to fly, take out Ike and only leave Marth.

 

[shrooby]

I know what you mean, so don't worry bro.

Ah ha. I understand what you mean... but is Sakurai dependent on requests alone? To what point do they effect him? Megaman could be one case....

As well as Bowser, Peach, Wario, Sonic, Dedede, Meta Knight...
We could argue if popularity was the only thing that got the above characters in, but it was definitely a force. If it wasn't, then I don't think Sakurai would've done character polls to begin with. Popularity is very helpful. If it wasn't then I don't think Ridley or K. Rool would be likely at all, and we would not have Sonic. Is it the only force driving the whole roster? No, but it's a very strong force all things considered.