Character Discussion Thread

[Frostwraith]

I'm already considering the sound files, Frosty, I still just don't like the idea of Ryu making the game lose its focus.

Right, because 4 third-party characters out of a total of over 50 characters is the game losing its focus.

Should Roy and Ryu be indeed part of the roster and counting Mii Fighter classes as separate, we have 55 characters.

4 out of 55 equates to 7% of the roster. Brawl has 2 third-party characters out of 39, which is around 6% of the roster.

Clearly, the increase of 1% in the ratio of third-party characters in the roster shows the game is losing its focus.

 

[Kenith]

I understand the concern behind Smash Bros. being over saturated with third-parties. Really, I do.
But I don't mind third party characters as long as they have significant relevance to Nintendo. Ryu has that relevance. Mega Man has it. Phoenix Wright has it. Strider and Arthur have it.
And they're all owned by Capcom. So what?
Would you rather a some third-party with much less significance to Nintendo be added...just because they're not from Capcom? That is completely arbitrary idea and makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Wolfie557]

My personal max limit:
Up to 8 different 3rd party companies.(Preferably just the following:Sega, Namco Bandai, Tecmo Koei, Capcom, Ubisoft, Square Enix, Konami, PlatinumGames.)
1-2 3rd party characters each representing a different series - depending on the company.


Of course.....that might not happen till like Smash 9 lol.(or never.) But I am very open minded when it comes to characters.

 

[Kenith]

Maybe Ryu being in is part of a huge Capcom themed Smash Bros. expansion.
S.T.A.R.S. costumes for the Mii fighters would be AWESOME.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Maybe Ryu being in is part of a huge Capcom themed Smash Bros. expansion.
S.T.A.R.S. costumes for the Mii fighters would be AWESOME.

And a custom Boulder punching move for the Mii Fighter!

 

[Kenith]

And a custom Boulder punching move for the Mii Fighter!

Sigh...we don't talk about that game...

 

[Spazzy_D]

This is why I think we will only get a couple of characters from the ballot after Roy and Ryu. People in general probably don't care that much. I mean some people may fork over 5 dollars or whatever for a character they use once and never touch again, but if I don't see myself using the character much I'm not going to continually buy them (but I will take that back if I can't play against them randomly online). Really it is probably in Nintendo's best interest to just make a couple top picks that lots of people will buy, and focus efforts on stuff that will appeal to everyone like new skins/colors, stages and items.

.....Do you honestly believe that people won't buy all the character DLC but will buy alternate skins and colors?

 

[Kenith]

I'd pay for alternate costumes. Not colors though. Not even for a dollar.

 

[Wolfie557]

I'd pay for alternate costumes. Not colors though. Not even for a dollar.

Both are horrible eyes.

Why doom a potentially awesome character for a costume.......

(even if you mean costumes like zora suit Link ect ect, I think it's a bad idea still.)

 

[Spazzy_D]

I'd pay for alternate costumes. Not colors though. Not even for a dollar.

It's not about people not buying costumes, it's about costumes being more desirable to the average consumer than characters. One of those things actually changes the way the game is played. The other does not.

 

[random rendum]

what is this capcom has too many reps stuffed

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

what is this capcom has too many reps stuffed

Someone doesn't want Ryu in smash solely because he is third party.

 

[Kenith]

Damn, I made myself sad with the idea of Resident Evil costumes...
I just really wish characters had alternate costumes in general...Ocarina of Time Link/Ganondorf for example.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Damn, I made myself sad with the idea of Resident Evil costumes....

Can't wait for that Guile wig for Mii Fighters.

 

[FalKoopa]

Did we really have that cringe-inducing talk?

Can't wait for that Guile wig for Mii Fighters.

Yes please. we NEED this along with Guile's theme.

I'm not too big on Ryu, personally. Would have preferred Phoenix Wright, just so I could scream "Objection" in a Smash match. Oh well.

 

[Andinus]

.....Do you honestly believe that people won't buy all the character DLC but will buy alternate skins and colors?

Depends how much they charge.. For me it's buying something I will get use out of. If they charge say 7-10 bucks for two character alts/costumes for everyone. Then I would rather buy that than characters I won't ever play as.

 

[Chandeelure]

Can't wait for that Guile wig for Mii Fighters.

Are you talking about the golden Etika wig?

 

[Burruni]

Since we got a little argument spewed up over the matter of character worthiness being weighted being affected by having the same father company, I drafted this up for the "contenders" with our 4 current companies for 3rd party representation, Square-Enix as the clear next largest company for merit, and 3 of the biggest sole-candidate 3rd party characters. Please read through before comments.

Capcom

Spoiler

Megaman: The original Jump 'n' Shoot Man. A series that commanded more popularity than a number of NES born Nintendo series already in Smash bros during his reign on the NES and later SNES. A series so beloved that when the head creator left to make a spiritual successor people SWARMED it to fund the campaign. A man of one of the largest canon arsenals for gaming.
X: Taller, Leaner, more Agile Megaman designed to show off the capabilities of the SNES as a new sub-series that carried from SNES to PS1 that started off with more steam than the original series did but slowly died off.
Zero: The more fan beloved protagonist from the X series with a sword in hand and a pistol used more as a secondary weapon. Ultimately got a redesign and his own 4 games on the GBA whose engine was reused for a 2-part ZX series in the early DS lifespan.
Megman.Exe: The Battle Network series for Megaman was the only one to have a positively recieved show and held as one of the stronger series of the GBA with over a half dozen core entries with Pokemon-esque "Versions" for some of the titles.
Sir Arthur: When people think about "Nintendo Hard," one of the first games to come to mind is none other than the iconic Ghosts 'n' Goblins. Starting on the arcade, was far more famous for its apperances on the NES and sequels on the SNES and various Gameboy systems with the latest additions coming in 2009 and 2010 for iOS. A bit more out-dated than a number of fighters here, but a relic of gaming history.
Ryu: Mr. Street Fighter. Face of the series and certainly the fist of it with the famous Haduken and Shoryuken. Despite having so few main releases and an overly abundant amount of remakes, Street Fighter is inarguably one of the most famous Fighting Game series and the one that did the most to establish, evolve, and define the genre.
Chun-Li: If Ryu is the face and fist, she is the chest and legs of fighting games. The second most iconic fighter other than Ryu and possibly Ken (for being Ryu's Luigi) or Akuma as the iconic villain. One of the first strong women of gaming and one whose thousand kicks is blatantly referenced in the Mii Fighter's skills.
Pheonix Wright: To those who claim that he's just a mere puzzle game, OBJECTION! A series that started on the GBA and has held itself firmly Nintendo-rooted, it's an incredibly famous and "copied" game that even warranted a live action film made of the first game's story who already has taken to fighting once before.
Amaterasu: The Nintendo-tied Wolf Diety who embodies japanese history (with some writer's licence) and embodies the fast paced combo-heavy action iconic of Clover Studios, more well known now as Platinum Games and the style of Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe, Bayonetta, Wonderful 101, and Okami itself.
Shantae: Almost entirely Nintendo-rooted somewhat small series starting on the GameBoy Color who has basically been fully handled by Way Forward who have been diehard for Nintendo in their products and desire for her inclusion. Due to her listing in the SSB Roster Maker program, I assume her rights are owned by Capcom?

Namco-Bandai

Spoiler

Pac-Man: You can't talk about Gaming history without him. There's nothing more to say.
Agumon: Starting off as Vitrual Pets, Digimon evolved into a series that rivaled Pokemon like Sonic rivaled Mario as a show and a game. Digimon in itself has at least 4 traditional fighting games because I OWN 4 and of course Agumon is the Pikachu for it.
Heihachi: Tekken, being the big rival for Street Fighter as king of fighters, would be nowhere without its iconic villain who was in Playstation All-Stars With Pokken being in the works, could this be a signal about Tekken getting its own fighter in to properly clobber Ryu?
Jin: Ryu of Tekken. Really don't need to say more.
Lloyd: The Tales of series is one of the most popular and well known for JRPGs, with Lloyd being both one of the most iconic, popular protagonists in one of the best selling games that HAPPENED to release on the gamecube if my memory serves me right.
Nightmare: Soul Calibur being the second big fighter for Namco-Bandai, Nightmare and Ivy are the two biggest faces for the series that already had Link fight in it. Ivy having less clothing than ZSS out of the shower, Nightmare's a better choice for Smash.

SEGA

Spoiler

Sonic: Mario's old rival and one of the most iconic gaming faces ever. And... frankly, he's the biggest thing for SEGA by a long shot.
Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik: The Dr. Wily that's far more iconic and has fought hand to hand in his multi-functional Egg-O-Matic which would basically function like Bowser Jr.
Tails: The tech-heavy flying fox. One of gaming's oldest sidekicks... if Sonic as a series got a second fighter, he'd be the biggest rival with Eggman for the spot.
Knuckles: The first big rival for Sonic, the gliding echidna who's better than the rest of them, best of them. Tougher than Leather!
Jack Frost: Since Atlus has been bought by the same hands of SEGA, with SMT and its child series Persona having a mixed history of Nintendo and Sony alike (and Jack Frost starring in one of few games on the Virtual Boy) the mascot of the series seems like a great cartoony demon to spice up the roster.

Konami

Spoiler

Solid Snake: Already got in. The man and series that is still famous for the "!" and Carboard Boxes that accompanied the series that made Stealth in gaming what it is today.
Bomberman: One of the most classic series for head-to-head simply competative gaming. While the series has tried to experiment with dozens to titles (EVEN LETTING WARIO STAR IN ONE), it has remained one of Konami's flagship series. Frankly, the entire entity of the Bomb ability from Kirby is derived from this series.
Simon Belmont: The Demon-Hunter legend from one of the truest series for Nintendo Hard and later crafted up the explorative 2D action platformer genre of MetroidVANIA, Castlevania. With a standard whip, wide arsenal of sub weapons, and the sometimes ludicrous skills for platforming in place, he rivals only Alucard for being the face for the series. Clearly, this is no ordinary man, for WHAT IS A MAN?! A MISERABLE LITTLE PILE OF SECRETS! BUT ENOUGH TALK, HAVE AT YOU!

Square-Enix

Spoiler

Cloud Strife: The most iconic Final Fantasy protagonist of the game that has gotten milked the most, as hard as 13 tries. With two spinoffs, at least 3 ports with minimal changes, and of course the entire FILM.
Black Mage: The fairly enigmatic but iconic character design dating back to the first title that encompasses the magic that made the series shine wo has already appeared in a number of Mario spinoffs.
Chocobo: Kweh! The Yoshi for Final Fantasy whose spin-offs include racing and a dungeon crawler series that allowed himt ot ake the various jobs of the series as a sort of an Avatar character with one of the titles being fairly late in the Wii's lifespan. Surpsingly, was a notable voted candidate back in the ages of Melee.
Chocobo & Slime: The power of Chocobo with the shape-shifting goop from Dragon Quest! Seems... just like too quirky of a duo to quite count out.

1-Offs

Spoiler

Rayman: What can be say that hasn't been already?
Quote: The man who made indie gaming something to truly look at for the power and quality that the titles can create. Was ported to Nintendo before all others and then REMADE for 3DS TWICE.
Professor Layton: A slightly less wild Pheonix Wright that has been entirely Nintendo and isn't owned by capcom.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Depends how much they charge.. For me it's buying something I will get use out of. If they charge say 7-10 bucks for two character alts/costumes for everyone. Then I would rather buy that than characters I won't ever play as.

I get that, and everyone is different, but paid costume DLC is exactly the type of nickle and diming that gamers complain about and that Sakurai is afraid of being associated with. The dev team gets a bit of a pass on the Mii Fighter costumes largely because of the character DLC launching with it.

In any case, character DLC is always the premiere and best selling DLC in fighting games. When DLC for Smash was first being speculated on, 90% of it was on characters, and that has yet to change. That's where the hype is. Sakurai knows that. In his latest interview he said that people get excited to see "who will join the battle."

That's why I don't see character DLC ending anytime soon. If the placeholder data is correct we already have 6 characters on the way. My original Smash character DLC estimate was 6-12 characters. I'm thinking 8-10 sounds most reasonable at the moment.

That's not to say that burn out won't occur. Everything has diminishing returns, after all. @SmashChu actually wrote an article to that effect for source gaming that's worth a read. https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/17/dlc-econ-101-dlc-and-diminishing-marginal-utility/

 

[Sid-cada]

Shantae: Almost entirely Nintendo-rooted somewhat small series starting on the GameBoy Color who has basically been fully handled by Way Forward who have been diehard for Nintendo in their products and desire for her inclusion. Due to her listing in the SSB Roster Maker program, I assume her rights are owned by Capcom?

The original, GBC Shantae was published by Capcom, although developed by WayForward. The rights to her are still owned by WayForward, and they have gone indie. Capcom hasn't touched Shantae after the original.


Edit: Also, is there a reason you didn't consider Slime solo?

 

[Burruni]

The original, GBC Shantae was published by Capcom, although developed by WayForward. The rights to her are still owned by WayForward, and they have gone indie. Capcom hasn't touched Shantae after the original.

Thank you for clarifying that. I've never played that close attention to credits and I knew it was Way Forward who was MAKING the games and selling Shantae to Smashdom, but was confused why she was listed under Capcom for the program. Gonna change that now.

 

[Andinus]

I get that, and everyone is different, but paid costume DLC is exactly the type of nickle and diming that gamers complain about and that Sakurai is afraid of being associated with. The dev team gets a bit of a pass on the Mii Fighter costumes largely because of the character DLC launching with it.

In any case, character DLC is always the premiere and best selling DLC in fighting games. When DLC for Smash was first being speculated on, 90% of it was on characters, and that has yet to change. That's where the hype is. Sakurai knows that. In his latest interview he said that people get excited to see "who will join the battle."

That's why I don't see character DLC ending anytime soon. If the placeholder data is correct we already have 6 characters on the way. My original Smash character DLC estimate was 6-12 characters. I'm thinking 8-10 sounds most reasonable at the moment.

That's not to say that burn out won't occur. Everything has diminishing returns, after all. @SmashChu actually wrote an article to that effect for source gaming that's worth a read. https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/17/dlc-econ-101-dlc-and-diminishing-marginal-utility/

And burnout is mainly what I'm getting at when I feel that we will only be getting 2-4 characters beyond what we got now for a total of 6-8.
For me I look at it this way. Say they do give us 10-15 characters for 5 bucks each. That's 50-75 bucks worth of premium content. For me at some point I say slow down here.. I'm not even gonna use most of these characters... Why am I putting down all this money for them. Not that some people wouldn't, like hardcore fans, completionists and people with OCD. But I think you average consumer will just start to pick and choose based on interest and character reviews, and won't bother with a lot of them.

And Nintendo has to figure at what point will we achieve optimal profits.. That's probably the biggest purpose of the ballot. So they can pick the top few characters that will make them money.

Like I got a friend now who has both versions of the game, but he has basically already moved on. He likes the game and will play it with me, but I doubt he will bother with much dlc, and he certainly won't pick up a bunch of content he will never use at this point.

Me personally I would be likely to buy every character, if the characters are limited. Give me too much and my money will go elsewhere.

 

[TheAnvil]

There should be no limit on 3rd Parties beyond the number of plausible 3rd Party characters. Which isn't many.

The game will never lose focus as long as Sakurai never loses sight of his appropriate guidelines when selecting them.

 

[Putuk]

We talking 3rd party characters?
Honestly, I'm currently in a "the more the merrier" mindset. With the Lucas reveal, I have everything I ever wanted from a Smash roster. The only thing I'm really hoping for are some not-so-obvious picks. Say some more niche characters, I'd like to see that. I'd like to be surprised.

 

[Wolfie557]

There should be no limit on 3rd Parties beyond the number of plausible 3rd Party characters. Which isn't many.

The game will never lose focus as long as Sakurai never loses sight of his appropriate guidelines when selecting them.

which ones seem plausible to you?

 

[DJ3DS]

I could start up a fish and chip shop with all the salt Ryu seems to be generating. I don't understand what has led people to believe that characters owned by companies not yet represented are better fits for an all-star game like this than the literal face of fighting games just because the company he is owned by happen to have another iconic character in there already.

I mean, it's almost like suggesting we punish Capcom because they've made a bigger impact on gaming. Utter nonsense.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, speaking of Ryu and Ken, I really hope that Ken is an alt for Ryu if he's in. It just feels weird having Ryu as the sole SF rep in any crossover.

I'd imagine Ken as a costume would give Sakurai the same issue he had with Doc/Pittoo/Lucy unless he made Ryu have a hybrid style of both his own and Ken's.

 

[Spazzy_D]

which ones seem plausible to you?

I said the following a while back in the leak thread:

"Yeah, in my opinion though, guest spots in Smash aren't for characters from recent and well received games. They are reserved for video game industry icons.

Out of the (if Ryu shows up) 5 guest spots in Smash so far, Sonic is the youngest, debuting in 1991, and Megaman is the poorest selling, at over 30 million. These characters mean something in the context of video game and Nintendo history. I would hope future third party newcomers continue this trend."

I don't mind having any third party characters as long as they feel both iconic and important. There are still quite a few characters out there that would fit this criteria.

 

[TheAnvil]

which ones seem plausible to you?

Off the top of my head, besides the ones have already been playable (and Ryu):

Banjo-Kazooie - This duo is more Nintendo than most Nintendo characters, being from the same canon world as Mario and Donkey Kong. The Banjo-Kazooie series is synonymous with Nintendo, and the 3 N64 games in which he appeared were beyond critically and commercially successful. Mario 64 created the 3D platformer, but Banjo-Kazooie perfected it. Would 100% be in by now if the Rare/Microsoft transaction had not been made.
Rayman - One of the most iconic video game characters of all time, very comparable to Mega Man. Many of his games are considered among the greatest of all time. Has recently been tied quite strongly to Nintendo too, which is a plus. And his trophy is in Smash.
Bomberman - Huge gaming franchise that has had a release on every Nintendo platform except the current gen 3DS and Wii U. Even had a cross over with Wario. Too bad Konami have killed the franchise.
Tails - Sonic could easily justify another character, and Tails is a hugely iconic character. Essentially the Luigi of the Sonic series. Sonic and Tails are among the most iconic video game duos of all time along with Mario and Luigi, and DK and Diddy.
Leon Kennedy - Resident Evil is one of the biggest gaming franchises of all time, and one of Capcom's big 3. Leon's games are more strongly associated with Nintendo than the other main protagonists, as 2 and 4 were both on Nintendo platforms, whereas 1,3 and 5 were not (barring remakes and ports).
Spyro The Dragon - Along with Crash, Spyro was a direct rival to Mario, just like Sonic. Skylanders has elevated him beyond what he was before.
Crash Bandicoot - See Spyro, above.


There maybe 1 or 2 others that I'm forgetting. All of the above have significant enough gaming legacies, and ties to Nintendo. Not saying that some of these characters will ever be in Smash, but they all deserve it.

 

[Ura]

I'm going to be honest, the only time I ever heard of Rayman before the fake leak was one of his spinoff games from like 2007 and some other mobile game.

I always assumed his series was just another generic platformer series.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Remember when people jumped on one another for wanting more than one character from a company?

I feel like those not entirely pleased with Ryu's inclusion may have been the poor sods who were dogpiled upon for such an opinion this time last year.

That said I am genuinely surprised Chun-Li wasn't known by everyone. She's the most famous female video game characters I can think of aside from Lara Croft and the Nintendo Princesses.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Remember when people jumped on one another for wanting more than one character from a company?

I feel like those not entirely pleased with Ryu's inclusion may have been the poor sods who were dogpiled upon for such an opinion this time last year.

That said I am genuinely surprised Chun-Li wasn't known by everyone. She's the most famous female video game characters I can think of aside from Lara Croft and the Nintendo Princesses.

I was going to ask who "Nintendo Princesses" was before I realized you were talking about Peach, Daisy, and Rosalina lol.

 

[TheAnvil]

I'm going to be honest, the only time I ever heard of Rayman before the fake leak was one of his spinoff games from like 2007 and some other mobile game.

I always assumed his series was just another generic platformer series.

You must have lived in a cave.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I was going to ask who "Nintendo Princesses" was before I realized you were talking about Peach, Daisy, and Rosalina lol.

Zelda? Technically Lucina as well, lol.

 

[N3ON]

Who the heck is Chun Li?

No, not at all. I really don't know who Chun Li is.

Then explain why Street Fighter is not owned by Nintendo.

Someone doesn't want Ryu in smash solely because he is third party.

A lot of people don't want Ryu in Smash because he's third-party. A lot of people don't want a lot of characters in Smash because they're third-party.

@ Burruni
Shantae's rights are held by WayFoward, if they were held by Capcom she wouldn't be indie.

You must have lived in a cave.

That's no worse than not knowing who Chun Li is. At least he had heard of Rayman.

 

[TheAnvil]

A lot of people don't want Ryu in Smash because he's third-party. A lot of people don't want a lot of characters in Smash because they're third-party.

@ Burruni
Shantae's rights are held by WayFoward, if they were held by Capcom she wouldn't be indie.


That's no worse than not knowing who Chun Li is. At least he had heard of Rayman.

Well at least Chun Li isn't the face of her series. It's pretty bad though, you'd think that any gamer had heard of all of the original SF2:World Warriors cast.

The funny thing about Ryu is, I bet he's had more Nintendo releases than the vast majority of the current cast. SF2 is the most successful 3rd Party game on a Nintendo platform ever, too.

 

[aldelaro5]

I feel like any gamer, even if they don't Street Fighter, should know who Ryu, Ken, Chun-li, and Akuma are. So now you do.
Also, speaking of Ryu and Ken, I really hope that Ken is an alt for Ryu if he's in. It just feels weird having Ryu as the sole SF rep in any crossover.

idk who akuma is btw.....

But I did for ryu, ken and chun-li.

What sis I do? Am I not a gamer anymore?

 

[Oblivion129]

I noticed the Nightmare support thread is locked. Why is that? After Ryu, I think Nightmare would be a great choice for second Namco rep. Final Destination has a Soul Calibur'ish look to it anyways so it could be his home-stage.

 

[aldelaro5]

what is this capcom has too many reps stuffed

This concept can be explained by a very simple image:

That was the thread some times after the files were found btw....

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

idk who akuma is btw.....

But I did for ryu, ken and chun-li.

What sis I do? Am I not a gamer anymore?

No. If anyone isn't a gamer with that logic it's me. Especially since I started with the most hated games in each series I played. (Black 2, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Super Mario Galaxy...)