Character Discussion Thread

[FalKoopa]

Solid Snake accidently steps on a landmine.

This is surprisingly appropriate.

 

[aldelaro5]

King K. Rool uses Paper Mario as a shield from the monkey mutts.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Seriously, this is gold

The worse is that I think these are actually the most likely newcomers

 

[Loungemen]

I don't think it's going to go by popularity alone. Knowing Sakurai, he's probably just going to choose who he likes best, though they probably will be out of the top fifteen.

You are perhaps the biggest spoilsport I've seen on SB :V

Then again we can never question Sakurai, so be prepared for disappointment one way or another.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait...People think Ryu is too similair to Mario? I may not like Ryu but I've played as him a bit in SSF43DS and Tatsunoko vs Capcom. Hadouken is more like Bowser's Fire Breath custom, Shoryuken is even different! Whirlwind Kick is also very different!

 

[Spazzy_D]

The only one that I would like to see at this point is Ray from Custom Robo. Sadly he will probably never get in. Maybe Starfy or Saki as well. Isaac would be cool thought and he has a really good fan base to boot so I hope he gets in for the sake of his fans.Please no. Snake, Bomberman, Simon Belmont, Layon, Slime/Slime & Chocobo, and Ryu are all much better choices for third-parties before we get to him.
I agree with the sentiment that we tend on overrate characters in general (which is why I can't justify giving anyone above 60%, except maybe Inklings although I couldn't care less about them) which is something I've learned from last time I was here. Still, had it not been for the Smash Ballot I wouldn't even be here. After the initial roster got revealed given up hope that anymore newcomers I wanted would get in as DLC but at the same time I was mostly satisfied with the roster so it wasn't worth my time to stick around. But now that the Smash Ballot is a thing, I actually have hope for King K. Rool, who's the last newcomer I want that I feel has a realistic shot of getting in. The other two I want, Bomberman and Ray, are pipe dreams (although I am excited for Lucas and Roy's return). I do however expect one character to be added partially as a result of fan demand (outside of pre-planned characters).
This. I never made much of a comparison between Ryu and Mario and I haven't exactly played a lot of Street Fighter myself. Comparing these two is like comparing an apple to an orange. Even then, the uppercut and the Hadoken I feel will function differently.

Ryu's inclusion has me interested mainly because of what I feel the consequences of his inclusion will have on the Super Smash Bros. series (and I'm not just talking about how it may mean we get more DLC characters than we expected). My hope is that it will lead to the likes of Snake, Bomberman, and Slime getting included.

(..... #VoteBomber)

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Ha! You think Activision would let someone use their IP

Ha, your funny :3

A man can dream can't he?

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Alright, so I decided to pit all of the popular DLC canidates (minus Bomberman) into a Hunger Games sim.

Spoiler: Day 1, The Bloodbath

As the tributes stand on their podiums, the horn sounds.
Paper Mario runs into the cornucopia and hides.

Mewtwo runs away from the Cornucopia.

Roy runs away from the Cornucopia.

Rundas retrieves a trident from inside the cornucopia.

Pichu runs away from the Cornucopia.

Ryu runs away from the Cornucopia.

Squirtle, Inkling, and Dixie Kong work together to get as many supplies as possible.

Princess Daisy runs away from the Cornucopia.

Lyn runs away from the Cornucopia.

Banjo and Kazooie runs away with a lighter and some rope.

Krystal runs away from the Cornucopia.

Issac runs away from the Cornucopia.

Captain Toad and Ridley fight for a bag. Ridley gives up and retreats.

Bayonetta runs away with a lighter and some rope.

Ivysaur runs away from the Cornucopia.

Wolf runs away from the Cornucopia.

Lucas finds a bow, some arrows, and a quiver.

Ice Climbers and King K.Rool fight for a bag. King K.Rool gives up and retreats.

Simon Belmont severely slices Solid Snake with a sword.

Spoiler: Day 1

Ryu tries to spear fish with a trident.

Bayonetta sees smoke rising in the distance, but decides not to investigate.

Dixie Kong constructs a shack.

Princess Daisy tries to sleep through the entire day.

Roy sees smoke rising in the distance, but decides not to investigate.

Rundas defeats Captain Toad in a fight, but spares his life.

Krystal runs away from Squirtle.

Lyn receives a hatchet from an unknown sponsor.

Inkling receives clean water from an unknown sponsor.

Wolf runs away from Ivysaur.

Simon Belmont camouflauges himself in the bushes.

Banjo and Kazooie is pricked by thorns while picking berries.

Paper Mario and Mewtwo split up to search for resources.

Issac tries to sleep through the entire day.

King K.Rool thinks about home.

Pichu tends to Lucas's wounds.

Ice Climbers hunts for other tributes.

Ridley picks flowers.

And the only death at the end of the first day was: Solid Snake.
Onto the first night!

Spoiler: Night 1

Lucas loses sight of where he is.

Ryu screams for help.

Bayonetta tracks down and kills Pichu.

Captain Toad cooks his food before putting his fire out.

Mewtwo and Banjo and Kazooie huddle for warmth.

Roy's trap kills Paper Mario.

Lyn tends to Krystal's wounds.

Squirtle, Wolf, and Simon Belmont discuss the games and what might happen in the morning.

Princess Daisy tends to her wounds.

Dixie Kong, Ridley, Ice Climbers, and Ivysaur tell each other ghost stories to lighten the mood.

Rundas, Issac, Inkling, and King K.Rool tell each other ghost stories to lighten the mood.

Spoiler: Day 2

Simon Belmont receives a hatchet from an unknown sponsor.

Ivysaur diverts King K.Rool's attention and runs away.

Lyn receives clean water from an unknown sponsor.

Mewtwo attacks Dixie Kong, but she manages to escape.

Squirtle falls into a pit and dies.

Bayonetta and Roy work together for the day.

Wolf tries to spear fish with a trident.

Ryu picks flowers.

Captain Toad and Rundas split up to search for resources.

Princess Daisy questions her sanity.

Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, and Issac unsuccessfully ambush Ice Climbers, Inkling, and Ridley, who kill them instead.

Krystal unknowingly eats toxic berries.

.

The deaths as of the second day are: Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

Spoiler: Night 2

Princess Daisy tends to her wounds.

Simon Belmont attempts to start a fire, but is unsuccessful.

Ice Climbers thinks about home.

Ryu tends to his wounds.

Wolf accidently detonates a land mine while trying to arm it.

Roy, Mewtwo, Lyn, and Rundas sleep in shifts.

Ridley lets King K.Rool into his shelter.

Captain Toad sets an explosive off, killing Inkling.

Dixie Kong defeats Bayonetta in a fight, but spares her life.

Ivysaur tries to sing herself to sleep.

And as of the second night, the fallen are Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

And the deaths increase on the Dawn of the Third Day;

Spoiler: Day 3

Ryu tries to sleep through the entire day.

Roy makes a slingshot.

Ridley constructs a shack.

Princess Daisy steals from Ivysaur while she isn't looking.

Rundas throws a knife into Ice Climbers's head.

King K.Rool receives clean water from an unknown sponsor.

Captain Toad, Bayonetta, and Mewtwo unsuccessfully ambush Lyn, Dixie Kong, and Simon Belmont, who kill them instead.

.
The fallen are now Ice Climbers, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

Onto the Night of the Third Day!

Spoiler: Night 3

King K.Rool receives medical supplies from an unknown sponsor.

Dixie Kong passes out from exhaustion.

Simon Belmont fends Princess Daisy, Rundas, and Lyn away from his fire.

Ivysaur receives a hatchet from an unknown sponsor.

Roy is unable to start a fire and sleeps without warmth.

Ridley convinces Ryu to snuggle with him.

Onto Day 4!

Spoiler: Day 4

Simon Belmont receives clean water from an unknown sponsor.

King K.Rool is pricked by thorns while picking berries.

Dixie Kong receives a hatchet from an unknown sponsor.

Ryu sprains his ankle while running away from Princess Daisy.

Ridley diverts Roy's attention and runs away.

Ivysaur receives an explosive from an unknown sponsor.

Lyn tends to Rundas's wounds.

And onto Night 4!

Spoiler: Night 4

Ryu attempts to start a fire, but is unsuccessful.

Rundas destroys Ridley's supplies while he is asleep.

King K.Rool receives fresh food from an unknown sponsor.

Princess Daisy looks at the night sky.

Dixie Kong and Lyn run into each other and decide to truce for the night.

Ivysaur and Simon Belmont tell stories about themselves to each other.

Roy tries to sing himself to sleep.

...There haven't been any deaths in a while, actually.

Spoiler: Day 5

Dixie Kong steals from Ryu while he isn't looking.

Lyn defeats Rundas in a fight, but spares his life.

Ridley tries to sleep through the entire day.

Simon Belmont tries to spear fish with a trident.

Ivysaur is pricked by thorns while picking berries.

Princess Daisy overhears King K.Rool and Roy talking in the distance.

Well, still no violent demises.

Spoiler: Arena Event #1

Carnivorous squirrels start attacking the tributes.

Roy tries to kills as many squirrels as he can, but there are too many.

Simon Belmont is brutally attacked by a scurry of squirrels.

Rundas tries to kills as many squirrels as he can, but there are too many.

King K.Rool uses the squirrels to his advantage, shoving Princess Daisy into them.

Lyn survives.

Ridley tries to kills as many squirrels as he can, but there are too many.

Dixie Kong survives.

Ivysaur is brutally attacked by a scurry of squirrels.

Ryu survives.

Add more to the death count; now the fallen are Roy, Simon Belmont, Rundas, Daisy, Ridley, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

Spoiler: Night 5

Lyn screams for help.

Dixie Kong, Ryu, and King K.Rool get into a fight. Ryu triumphantly kills them both.

The fallen are now Dixie Kong, King K.Rool, Roy, Simon Belmont, Rundas, Daisy, Ridley, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

Spoiler: Day 6

Ryu kills Lyn with a sickle.

The fallen are now Lyn, Dixie Kong, King K.Rool, Roy, Simon Belmont, Rundas, Daisy, Ridley, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

So the winner is....Ryu. As if it wasn't pretty apparent he was going to be DLC already.

 

[aldelaro5]

Alright, so I decided to pit all of the popular DLC canidates (minus Bomberman) into a Hunger Games sim.

Spoiler: Day 1, The Bloodbath

As the tributes stand on their podiums, the horn sounds.
Paper Mario runs into the cornucopia and hides.

Mewtwo runs away from the Cornucopia.

Roy runs away from the Cornucopia.

Rundas retrieves a trident from inside the cornucopia.

Pichu runs away from the Cornucopia.

Ryu runs away from the Cornucopia.

Squirtle, Inkling, and Dixie Kong work together to get as many supplies as possible.

Princess Daisy runs away from the Cornucopia.

Lyn runs away from the Cornucopia.

Banjo and Kazooie runs away with a lighter and some rope.

Krystal runs away from the Cornucopia.

Issac runs away from the Cornucopia.

Captain Toad and Ridley fight for a bag. Ridley gives up and retreats.

Bayonetta runs away with a lighter and some rope.

Ivysaur runs away from the Cornucopia.

Wolf runs away from the Cornucopia.

Lucas finds a bow, some arrows, and a quiver.

Ice Climbers and King K.Rool fight for a bag. King K.Rool gives up and retreats.

Simon Belmont severely slices Solid Snake with a sword.

Spoiler: Day 1

Ryu tries to spear fish with a trident.

Bayonetta sees smoke rising in the distance, but decides not to investigate.

Dixie Kong constructs a shack.

Princess Daisy tries to sleep through the entire day.

Roy sees smoke rising in the distance, but decides not to investigate.

Rundas defeats Captain Toad in a fight, but spares his life.

Krystal runs away from Squirtle.

Lyn receives a hatchet from an unknown sponsor.

Inkling receives clean water from an unknown sponsor.

Wolf runs away from Ivysaur.

Simon Belmont camouflauges himself in the bushes.

Banjo and Kazooie is pricked by thorns while picking berries.

Paper Mario and Mewtwo split up to search for resources.

Issac tries to sleep through the entire day.

King K.Rool thinks about home.

Pichu tends to Lucas's wounds.

Ice Climbers hunts for other tributes.

Ridley picks flowers.

And the only death at the end of the first day was: Solid Snake.
Onto the first night!

Spoiler: Night 1

Lucas loses sight of where he is.

Ryu screams for help.

Bayonetta tracks down and kills Pichu.

Captain Toad cooks his food before putting his fire out.

Mewtwo and Banjo and Kazooie huddle for warmth.

Roy's trap kills Paper Mario.

Lyn tends to Krystal's wounds.

Squirtle, Wolf, and Simon Belmont discuss the games and what might happen in the morning.

Princess Daisy tends to her wounds.

Dixie Kong, Ridley, Ice Climbers, and Ivysaur tell each other ghost stories to lighten the mood.

Rundas, Issac, Inkling, and King K.Rool tell each other ghost stories to lighten the mood.

Spoiler: Day 2

Simon Belmont receives a hatchet from an unknown sponsor.

Ivysaur diverts King K.Rool's attention and runs away.

Lyn receives clean water from an unknown sponsor.

Mewtwo attacks Dixie Kong, but she manages to escape.

Squirtle falls into a pit and dies.

Bayonetta and Roy work together for the day.

Wolf tries to spear fish with a trident.

Ryu picks flowers.

Captain Toad and Rundas split up to search for resources.

Princess Daisy questions her sanity.

Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, and Issac unsuccessfully ambush Ice Climbers, Inkling, and Ridley, who kill them instead.

Krystal unknowingly eats toxic berries.

.

The deaths as of the second day are: Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

Spoiler: Night 2

Princess Daisy tends to her wounds.

Simon Belmont attempts to start a fire, but is unsuccessful.

Ice Climbers thinks about home.

Ryu tends to his wounds.

Wolf accidently detonates a land mine while trying to arm it.

Roy, Mewtwo, Lyn, and Rundas sleep in shifts.

Ridley lets King K.Rool into his shelter.

Captain Toad sets an explosive off, killing Inkling.

Dixie Kong defeats Bayonetta in a fight, but spares her life.

Ivysaur tries to sing herself to sleep.

And as of the second night, the fallen are Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

And the deaths increase on the Dawn of the Third Day;

Spoiler: Day 3

Ryu tries to sleep through the entire day.

Roy makes a slingshot.

Ridley constructs a shack.

Princess Daisy steals from Ivysaur while she isn't looking.

Rundas throws a knife into Ice Climbers's head.

King K.Rool receives clean water from an unknown sponsor.

Captain Toad, Bayonetta, and Mewtwo unsuccessfully ambush Lyn, Dixie Kong, and Simon Belmont, who kill them instead.

.
The fallen are now Ice Climbers, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

Onto the Night of the Third Day!

Spoiler: Night 3

King K.Rool receives medical supplies from an unknown sponsor.

Dixie Kong passes out from exhaustion.

Simon Belmont fends Princess Daisy, Rundas, and Lyn away from his fire.

Ivysaur receives a hatchet from an unknown sponsor.

Roy is unable to start a fire and sleeps without warmth.

Ridley convinces Ryu to snuggle with him.

Onto Day 4!

Spoiler: Day 4

Simon Belmont receives clean water from an unknown sponsor.

King K.Rool is pricked by thorns while picking berries.

Dixie Kong receives a hatchet from an unknown sponsor.

Ryu sprains his ankle while running away from Princess Daisy.

Ridley diverts Roy's attention and runs away.

Ivysaur receives an explosive from an unknown sponsor.

Lyn tends to Rundas's wounds.

And onto Night 4!

Spoiler: Night 4

Ryu attempts to start a fire, but is unsuccessful.

Rundas destroys Ridley's supplies while he is asleep.

King K.Rool receives fresh food from an unknown sponsor.

Princess Daisy looks at the night sky.

Dixie Kong and Lyn run into each other and decide to truce for the night.

Ivysaur and Simon Belmont tell stories about themselves to each other.

Roy tries to sing himself to sleep.

...There haven't been any deaths in a while, actually.

Spoiler: Day 5

Dixie Kong steals from Ryu while he isn't looking.

Lyn defeats Rundas in a fight, but spares his life.

Ridley tries to sleep through the entire day.

Simon Belmont tries to spear fish with a trident.

Ivysaur is pricked by thorns while picking berries.

Princess Daisy overhears King K.Rool and Roy talking in the distance.

Well, still no violent demises.

Spoiler: Arena Event #1

Carnivorous squirrels start attacking the tributes.

Roy tries to kills as many squirrels as he can, but there are too many.

Simon Belmont is brutally attacked by a scurry of squirrels.

Rundas tries to kills as many squirrels as he can, but there are too many.

King K.Rool uses the squirrels to his advantage, shoving Princess Daisy into them.

Lyn survives.

Ridley tries to kills as many squirrels as he can, but there are too many.

Dixie Kong survives.

Ivysaur is brutally attacked by a scurry of squirrels.

Ryu survives.

Add more to the death count; now the fallen are Roy, Simon Belmont, Rundas, Daisy, Ridley, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

Spoiler: Night 5

Lyn screams for help.

Dixie Kong, Ryu, and King K.Rool get into a fight. Ryu triumphantly kills them both.

The fallen are now Dixie Kong, King K.Rool, Roy, Simon Belmont, Rundas, Daisy, Ridley, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

Spoiler: Day 6

Ryu kills Lyn with a sickle.

The fallen are now Lyn, Dixie Kong, King K.Rool, Roy, Simon Belmont, Rundas, Daisy, Ridley, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers, Captain Toad, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Wolf, Inkling, Pichu, Paper Mario, Squirtle, Banjo and Kazooie, Lucas, Issac, Krystal and Solid Snake.

So the winner is....Ryu. As if it wasn't pretty apparent he was going to be DLC already.

omg, why Paper Mario is doing so poorly?

I'm actually going to try today, maybe I can be more

 

[Oracle_Summon]

In the same post you are simultaneously arguing that there are restrictions on 3rd party characters, and also trying to argue that you are worried about some floodgates being opened. What point do you actually want to make? Between the massive "Ryu isn't iconic like Mario/Pac-Man" going on about 15 pages back, and now your assumption that there is some ulterior motive behind Ryu's addition, it just feels like you're looking for any reason for his inclusion that sits nicely with your personal beliefs about the character.

Did you read the meaning behind the post in 15 pages back? Someone (forgot their exact name) was arguing that Ryu was just as iconic as Mario and Pac-Man, I challenged that post.

The "ulterior motive" behind Ryu's addition is for Nintendo to have a business beneficial decision to add Ryu in. Where getting an exclusive deal with Capcom is a smart business decision for adding Ryu (knowing Nintendo, they probably will sucker for no upcoming game, or get a watered down Street Fighter 4 port and add him anyway).

Scoliosis Jones asked why anybody would not be in favor of Ryu, so I suggested some concerns that people would have with Ryu joining. Mainly ones of the Third Party variety.

About the Restrictions post. There may be some Restrictions to Third Party additions, but those are always changing and can be proven otherwise, or have not be stated clearly by Sakurai himself. The concern about the flood gates being opened is in relation to the reason why Ryu was added and would prove to what measures and deals Nintendo would go for to add extra Third Party characters.

Honestly, I doubt Capcom is developing a Nintendo vs Capcom or something right now. They're in the middle of developing Street Fighter V, slated for release in early 2016, and it's more likely that the benefit (apart from obvious royalties) to them is the immense amount of promotion this new game will get by association. For Nintendo, the benefit is adding another gaming icon to the Smash roster, DLC sales, and potentially a boon to hardware sales as Ryu is a character who could drive hardware sales from interested fighting game fans who don't have much to do on Nintendo systems right now.

Regardless if they are in the process of developing Nintendo vs. Capcom, there is still the notion that a deal has been made for Ryu's inclusion. Of course Capcom will get increased promotion because of Ryu's inclusion in Smash brothers, which is why many Third Party (and Indies) companies want their character in Smash.

The fighting game fans fall into different categories:

1) Those who play fighting games only of their franchise. They usually won't play any other type of fighting game.

2) Those who are a fan of the fighting game genre and are willing to give new games a try. Are willing to try Mortal Kombat if they seem interested in it, despite it being different from Street Fighter.

3) Those who play games competitively and enter tournament scenes. Those who like to watch competitive, professional level gameplay also fall into this category.

4) Those who will only play fighting games if they support a Stick (Arcade) Pad.

5) In combination of any the earlier types, we take those who play the traditional fighting games.

There are fighting game fans of Smash Brothers, but even adding Ryu to Smash will not get the traditional fighters interest and willingness to play Smash Brothers if they only care about Traditional fighters.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't get these hunger game posts and other similar types of games like the one Fatmanonice posted, they seem really irrelevant to Character Discussion.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I don't get these hunger game posts and other similar types of games like the one Fatmanonice posted, they seem really irrelevant to Character Discussion.

Well, they involve potential/confirmed characters and can be discussed; I'm not really seeing the big irrelevancy here. Nobody said it always had to be text conversations, but as long as there can be discussion on characters, we can't really call it "irrelevant".

That's the curse of non-specific titles; they invite loopholes.

 

[MagnesD3]

The chance of Nintendo vs Capcom is the only reason Ryu's inclusion is mildly exciting. (That and it maybe opens the door a little more for BK and Snake to join..)

 

[DJ3DS]

Did you read the meaning behind the post in 15 pages back? Someone (forgot their exact name) was arguing that Ryu was just as iconic as Mario and Pac-Man, I challenged that post.

The "ulterior motive" behind Ryu's addition is for Nintendo to have a business beneficial decision to add Ryu in. Where getting an exclusive deal with Capcom is a smart business decision for adding Ryu (knowing Nintendo, they probably will sucker for no upcoming game, or get a watered down Street Fighter 4 port and add him anyway).

Scoliosis Jones asked why anybody would not be in favor of Ryu, so I suggested some concerns that people would have with Ryu joining. Mainly ones of the Third Party variety.

About the Restrictions post. There may be some Restrictions to Third Party additions, but those are always changing and can be proven otherwise, or have not be stated clearly by Sakurai himself. The concern about the flood gates being opened is in relation to the reason why Ryu was added and would prove to what measures and deals Nintendo would go for to add extra Third Party characters.



Regardless if they are in the process of developing Nintendo vs. Capcom, there is still the notion that a deal has been made for Ryu's inclusion. Of course Capcom will get increased promotion because of Ryu's inclusion in Smash brothers, which is why many Third Party (and Indies) companies want their character in Smash.

The fighting game fans fall into different categories:

1) Those who play fighting games only of their franchise. They usually won't play any other type of fighting game.

2) Those who are a fan of the fighting game genre and are willing to give new games a try. Are willing to try Mortal Kombat if they seem interested in it, despite it being different from Street Fighter.

3) Those who play games competitively and enter tournament scenes. Those who like to watch competitive, professional level gameplay also fall into this category.

4) Those who will only play fighting games if they support a Stick (Arcade) Pad.

5) In combination of any the earlier types, we take those who play the traditional fighting games.

There are fighting game fans of Smash Brothers, but even adding Ryu to Smash will not get the traditional fighters interest and willingness to play Smash Brothers if they only care about Traditional fighters.

The person back then was actually arguing Ryu was as iconic as Snake and Mega Man and thus sufficient for Smash. You were the one who kept bringing up Mario / Pac-Man and they were getting visibly frustrated by it.

As for the notion that a deal has been made for Ryu's inclusion - undoubtedly there has been. The extents of this are obviously unknown and whether it's simply talks about who gets what proportion of revenue or whether it's something larger is pure speculation - though I am still waiting for the ulterior motive behind Snake and Mega Man. The vast majority of people, at least on this forum, do not seem to be worrying about this. Instead of your line of thinking that "There is some deeper secret behind Ryu being in", most seem to have taken it as further confirmation on what Sakurai has always said about the caliber of 3rd party characters. I can't argue with you that "the notion is there" but it's largely only you keeping it there.

As for your division, I really don't think it needs to be that complicated and the categories you have drawn up have pretty significant overlap in e.g. 3) and 4). What is more important to consider is the two groups:

1) Competitive Players
2) Casual Players

I completely agree that (1) will for the largest part not be swayed by Ryu in Smash and stick to Street Fighter. But there is a decent chance of capturing (2)'s interest, and that is what the company would want to do anyway given how much bigger (2) is. Of the 3.3 million copies of Street Fighter IV sold (not including Super, Arcade, Ultra and 3D editions), I'd be extremely surprised if more than 10% of those players are serious competitive players, and I am giving more leeway based on the fact that Street Fighter is traditionally one of the more serious fighting games.

 

[Wolfie557]

Tbh Ryu is probably the best DLC choice they could go for since it's guaranteed he'll sell the best.

Can't think of any character that could realistically outsell him.

King K Rool........but that's a biiiiiig maybe!

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The person back then was actually arguing Ryu was as iconic as Snake and Mega Man and thus sufficient for Smash. You were the one who kept bringing up Mario / Pac-Man and they were getting visibly frustrated by it.

Their post:

skylanders fan: the issue i see with is that he dosnt have the legacy that the other charcter have and ryu are house hold names got in becuse he was asked to get in honestly snake in brawl felt like a sore thumb and I feel that has as much chance as to comeback

Skylanders fan's post was very ambiguous about the levels of the characters, because he just said they were house hold names. He explains what he meant in the next post.

The user starphoenix jumps in to the response I had to Skylanders fan, while I am trying to comprehend what his post meant and throwing out what I believe his post to mean.
Starphoenix says:

If you want to make a case that as a character he may not fit within the Super Smash Bros that'd be one thing, but saying he is less of an icon than those three is really silly.

The part in bold is what suggested to me that Starphoenix was stating that Ryu is at the same level of iconic as Mario and/or Pac-Man, since he did not really, in my view point, state who "those three" characters where.

Later on, users Cyber (forgot whole name) and Twewy would argue as to why Ryu was just as iconic as Mario and Pac-Man thinking I am arguing against the inclusion of Ryu (which in fact my post was against Ryu being as Iconic as Mario and Pac-Man).

User Spinosaurus was the only one, to me, that flat out stated that Ryu was not as iconic as Pac-Man and Mario, stating:

Ryu is totally on the same level of Mega Man if not moreso at this point. Also Street Fighter is a very influential and genre defining series. Street Fighter 2 is a revolutionary game and a cultural phenomenon, which the same can't be said for any Mega Man. (Mega Man 2 and X are excellent, but are not comparable to SF2 in terms of impact).

Street Fighter is often referenced and parodied in the media. Mega Man is really only important in the gaming community. Realistically though, they're both not as widely recognized as Mario and Pac Man so not sure what you're trying to argue there.

Starphoenix then replied to my comment saying

That's kind of a disingenuous argument since the people who haven't played a video game or have been exposed to them in some form are far and few between at this point, and the population that has are the ones being targeted anyways. Go up to anyone below the age of 35 and say "hadoken" with the motion and see how many people get the reference. I'm sure you'll be surprised.

This is a suggestion, to me, that Ryu is as iconic as Pac-Man and Mario in the sense that he is at the same level. The exact specifics of what Starphoenix meant is unsure to me, but that is where we started with the disagreement that Ryu is iconic as Mario and Pac-Man.

As for the notion that a deal has been made for Ryu's inclusion - undoubtedly there has been. The extents of this are obviously unknown and whether it's simply talks about who gets what proportion of revenue or whether it's something larger is pure speculation - though I am still waiting for the ulterior motive behind Snake and Mega Man.

The "Ulterior motives" behind Snake and Mega Man's conclusion are also based on pure speculation, but with some good points to some suggestions. One popular suggestion for Snake is that Sakurai and Kojima are friends and Snake was not added to Melee because of time constraints. For Mega Man, it is the suggestion that Mega Man has appeared on Nintendo consoles and "practically feels like a Nintendo character".

All of these suggestions for Mega Man and Snake are attempts to make sense of Third Party character choices.

The vast majority of people, at least on this forum, do not seem to be worrying about this.

Again, that was an answer to Scoliosis' question "for what reasons would someone fear Ryu getting in Smash?" (not the exact words, but to an extent.), it was not about the people on this forum, but for what reason, in general, people would have with Ryu joining Smash Brothers.

Instead of your line of thinking that "There is some deeper secret behind Ryu being in", most seem to have taken it as further confirmation on what Sakurai has always said about the caliber of 3rd party characters. I can't argue with you that "the notion is there" but it's largely only you keeping it there.

That is my speculation as to what a Video Game company for profit like Nintendo would do to get an exclusive deal that would increase profits and interest in the Wii U and benefit them in the long run. Why would a video game company like Nintendo do something that would not benefit them directly in a profiting sense?

As for your division, I really don't think it needs to be that complicated and the categories you have drawn up have pretty significant overlap in e.g. 3) and 4). What is more important to consider is the two groups:

1) Competitive Players
2) Casual Players

The reason why my other points were there was because of the complications and points that add to Competitive and Casual Player. Some Competitive players only play games with Arcade Sticks compatibility and only play one game of a certain genre, many of those being traditional fighters. Some Casual players may be more open to other types of fighters, but some just like the traditional fighter.

To restate, the reason why I put those division points was because of the possibilities that each fighting game fan would have whether or not they would care to play Ryu or Smash Brothers, because of his inclusion. Some of the Casual and Competitive players have more differing reasons and that is why I stated some of them.

I completely agree that (1) will for the largest part not be swayed by Ryu in Smash and stick to Street Fighter. But there is a decent chance of capturing (2)'s interest, and that is what the company would want to do anyway given how much bigger (2) is. Of the 3.3 million copies of Street Fighter IV sold (not including Super, Arcade, Ultra and 3D editions), I'd be extremely surprised if more than 10% of those players are serious competitive players, and I am giving more leeway based on the fact that Street Fighter is traditionally one of the more serious fighting games.

Since Street Fighter has a large fan base, there is a chance that some would be interested in playing Smash Brothers alongside Street Fighter.

Now to get into the meat and potatoes of how big the Casual Street Fighter fanbase is, and whether or not they would play Smash requires even more Speculation and information. As for what I believe, I see the Casual Street Fighter fanbase being smaller than the Competitive because the game focuses heavily on Button Memorization, Tier Lineup, and Reading. The Casual Fanbase would, more than likely, be turned off fighting Competitive players online and learning these gameplay curves.

Smash is more open to the Casual gamer crowd because of how easily approachable it is with its playstyle; whereas, Street Fighter requires more to get familiar with.

Again, this is just a guess as to why there may not be that many Casual gamers among the Street Fighter crowd.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'll make it less ambiguous: Ryu is to fighting games what Pac-Man is to arcades and Mario is to platformers, and is every much a video game icon as those three.

 

[N3ON]

Just because people know Ryu doesn't mean they necessarily want Ryu. A lot more Smashers are familiar with the veterans when it comes to the context of Smash.

Plus if he had showed up more often on Nintendo systems there'd be a better chance of more than basic recognition with a lot of less dedicated.

I'll make it less ambiguous: Ryu is to fighting games what Pac-Man is to arcades and Mario is to platformers, and is every much a video game icon as those three.

That's true. However Smash deviates from traditional fighting games to the extent many familiar with Smash may not be overly familiar with Ryu.

That's the case with plenty of people I know.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I'll make it less ambiguous: Ryu is to fighting games what Pac-Man is to arcades and Mario is to platformers, and is every much a video game icon as those three.

Ah. So my initial thought on what you said was correct, even though I jumped to conclusions at the time. In general, it was you who made that point and I argued it with you, then users Cyber (forgot full username) and Twewy jumped in thinking I am arguing against the inclusion of Ryu himself (I did not state it earlier, but that is what I believe to be their main intention as what I take from their final posts on the discussion).

 

[Starphoenix]

That's true. However Smash deviates from traditional fighting games to the extent many familiar with Smash may not be overly familiar with Ryu.

That's the case with plenty of people I know.

That might have been true with Brawl, but a majority of those who own either the 3DS or Wii U version from my experience are your traditional gamers. Everyone outside of that group still believes Brawl was the latest Super Smash Bros, don't have a 3DS/Wii U and/or hasn't moved beyond Smash 64.

Ah. So my initial thought on what you said was correct, even though I jumped to conclusions at the time. In general, it was you who made that point and I argued it with you, then users Cyber (forgot full username) and Twewy jump in thinking I am arguing against the inclusion of Ryu himself (I did not state it earlier, but that is what I believe to be their main intention as what I take from their final posts on the discussion).

Yeah. I have no idea what anyone else was saying. I just kind of swooped in and threw in my $.01.

 

[N3ON]

That might have been true with Brawl, but a majority of those who own either the 3DS or Wii U version from my experience are your traditional gamers. Everyone outside of that group still believes Brawl was the latest Super Smash Bros, don't have a 3DS/Wii U and/or hasn't moved beyond Smash 64.

Traditional gamers maybe, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're also traditional fighting game enthusiasts. Like I said, Smash deviates from those games so much many don't even consider them in the same vein.

Also, the younger demographics that lean more towards colourful, accessible fighters with characters like Mario and Pikachu don't exactly heavily overlap with the younger demographics that veer closer to realms of traditional fighters with a much higher bar for accessibility. I mean on Nintendo systems Smash is a blockbuster, but on the other two fighting games have a decidedly less mainstream fanbase.

There is some overlap sure, but not as much as the internet would come to expect. That's not to say most gamers would be unaware of Ryu, but to say many Smashers have only had passing or no experience with Street Fighter would be apt. It's not like the parallels run as deep as Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat.

 

[Wolfie557]

Just because people know Ryu doesn't mean they necessarily want Ryu. A lot more Smashers are familiar with the veterans when it comes to the context of Smash.

Plus if he had showed up more often on Nintendo systems there'd be a better chance of more than basic recognition with a lot of less dedicated.


That's true. However Smash deviates from traditional fighting games to the extent many familiar with Smash may not be overly familiar with Ryu.

That's the case with plenty of people I know.

I like streetfighter type traditional games......but I'm not good with them at all.
That's why I prefer smash since I'm better and also find it more fun generally.

I remember in SF4 3D I couldn't win online except like 8 out of 40 times I tried. I wouldn't support Ryu but I like him and now that he is coming I see positive things from his inclusion.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

That might have been true with Brawl, but a majority of those who own either the 3DS or Wii U version from my experience are your traditional gamers. Everyone outside of that group still believes Brawl was the latest Super Smash Bros, don't have a 3DS/Wii U and/or hasn't moved beyond Smash 64.

Not trying to take any words out of context, but those traditional gamers who own a 3DS and Wii U is the demographic that would get excited over Ryu's inclusion. Those who grew up with Street Fighter 2 on the SNES to be specific.

Yeah. I have no idea what anyone else was saying. I just kind of swooped in and threw in my $.01.

Come on man, you have $0.2 just like the rest of us, no need to downplay that (if that was your intention).

Traditional gamers maybe, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're also traditional fighting game enthusiasts. Like I said, Smash deviates from those games so much many don't even consider them in the same vein.

Also, the younger demographics that lean more towards colourful, accessible fighters with characters like Mario and Pikachu don't exactly heavily overlap with the younger demographics that veer closer to realms of traditional fighters with a much higher bar for accessibility. I mean on Nintendo systems Smash is a blockbuster, but on the other two fighting games have a decidedly less mainstream fanbase.

There is some overlap sure, but not as much as the internet would come to expect. That's not to say most gamers would be unaware of Ryu, but to say many Smashers have only had passing or no experience with Street Fighter would be apt. It's not like the parallels run as deep as Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat.

Exactly, the main point being that each of these Traditional Gamers and other types of gamers deviate into other categories.

For example, you have the:

• Traditional Playstation Gamers, Traditional Xbox Gamers, Traditional Nintendo Gamers
• Casual Playstation Gamers, Casual Xbox Gamers, Casual Nintendo Gamers.
• Playstation Fanboys, Xbox Fanboys, Nintendo Fanboys.
• Hardcore Playstation Gamers, Hardcore Xbox Gamers, Hardcore Nintendo Gamers.
• Retro Playstation Gamers, Retro Xbox Gamers, Retro Nintendo Gamers.
• Some of these deviate into the PC variety as well.

Each of these having their own reasons for playing Street Fighter and why they use the console they prefer.

 

[Wolfie557]

What counts as 'Traditional'?

I'm Hardcore, probably. Or a bit of all except casual.

 

[N3ON]

"Traditional fighting games" or "2d fighting games" tend to be the fixed platform, grounded, combo-heavy, health-bar using games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, BlazBlue, etc.

"Traditional 3d fighters" tend to be the same thing, but on a 3d plane, like Tekken, Soulcalibur, Virtua Fighter, etc.

What constitutes a "traditional gamer" is a good question. I imagine the answer is very subjective. I'm guessing Star meant it as longtime gamers who play a wide variety of games.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

What counts as 'Traditional'?

I'm Hardcore, probably. Or a bit of all except casual.

Traditional meaning that you prefer to play on the Console you started the series on, regardless of your opinion of the Console Manufacturer.

For example, you prefer to play Street Fighter on Playstation because that is the first console you played the series on. It just "feels" right and does not relate to the Manufacturer themselves.

Hardcore is the gamer that learns every nook and cranny of the game's engine, game's playstyle and etc.

Casual is the gamer that only plays the game on the console they own and does not try to learn the meat and potatoes of the game.

Some of these categories overlap, not possible are the Casual and Hardcore group.

"Traditional fighting games" or "2d fighting games" tend to be the fixed platform, grounded, combo-heavy, health-bar using games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, BlazBlue, etc.

"Traditional 3d fighters" tend to be the same thing, but on a 3d plane, like Tekken, Soulcalibur, Virtua Fighter, etc.

What constitutes a "traditional gamer" is a good question. I imagine the answer is very subjective. I'm guessing Star meant it as longtime gamers who play a wide variety of games.

Maybe you are thinking of Retro Gamers? Those who prefer the game to be exactly like it was since its debut.

 

[N3ON]

Traditional meaning that you prefer to play on the Console you started the series on, regardless of your opinion of the Console Manufacturer.

For example, you prefer to play Street Fighter on Playstation because that is the first console you played the series on. It just "feels" right and does not relate to the Manufacturer themselves.

Hardcore is the gamer that learns every nook and cranny of the game's engine, game's playstyle and etc.

Casual is the gamer that only plays the game on the console they own.

Some of these categories overlap, not possible are the Casual and Hardcore group.

If that's the case "traditional" gamers who started playing SF on the SNES would be pretty sol, huh? Not much of a future going forward for them.

By the way those definitions are all subjective.

Maybe you are thinking of Retro Gamers? Those who prefer the game to be exactly like it was since its debut.

Retro gamers are gamers who mainly focus on retro games as opposed to current ones.

 

[Champ Gold]

Ryu is so retry recognizable if you're atleast been gaming for a while. And if you're an enthusiast at it.

Problem is we're counting the new age Nintendo fans where they are only familiar with Nintendo series since the GC era.

Most 3rd party choices are leaning on that nostagia side (aside from Rayman who's only in there because of his trophy and fake leak).

If anything, people will know him if Nintendo starts getting some Capcom games on the Wii U more offen. Especially getting USF4 which can be easily ported and be funded for a port like Sony did

 

[Oracle_Summon]

If that's the case "traditional" gamers who started playing SF on the SNES would be pretty sol, huh? Not much of a future going forward for them.

By the way those definitions are all subjective.

True they would not have future going for them, since they would want a new Street Fighter game on the latest Nintendo Console, since it "just feels right".

Edit: I see now the reason why it can be confusing to what I said about Traditional Gamers, I mean staying with the Console Manufacturer's latest console despite your opinion of them.

They are subjective. It is an attempt to categorize Video game fans and their tastes in Consoles and why they like playing a game.

 

[N3ON]

True they would not have future going for them, since they would want a new Street Fighter game on the latest Nintendo Console, since it "just feels right"

They are subjective. It is an attempt to categorize Video game fans and their tastes in Consoles and why they like playing a game.

I think that's a bit of a narrow view of traditional gamers. Traditionally they might prefer playing a game on a specific system, but if the next iteration doesn't come to a specific system, they'll adapt if they care enough. Your definition sounds more like a fanboy who will only play a certain series they're fond of if its on "their" console.

Edit: I see now the reason why it can be confusing to what I said about Traditional Gamers, I mean staying with the Console Manufacturer's latest console despite your opinion of them.

Again, that sounds more like a fanboy than a traditionalist. Buying a console simply because of who makes it, regardless of your opinion on the console?

 

[Strofirko]

Probally if ryu didn't get leaked beforehand the backslash would be worse.

 

[Deleted member]

How about we stop arguing over what traditional gamers are and instead talk about how it would be awesome to have Charizard and Greymon face off against each other in Smash even if it is rather unlikely?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I think that's a bit of a narrow view of traditional gamers. Traditionally they might prefer playing a game on a specific system, but if the next iteration doesn't come to a specific system, they'll adapt if they care enough. Your definition sounds more like a fanboy who will only play a certain series they're fond of if its on "their" console.

I can understand why it seems that way, but the Traditional Gamer does not think "Nintendo is the best and I will only play Street Fighter on their Consoles", what they think is "I prefer the latest Street Fighter on a Nintendo console because that is what I grew up with and it just feels right".

In my point, Traditional Gamers would go over to other systems, but would still prefer if it was on their console of choice. Fanboys would not switch to other consoles saying "No Street Fighter on Nintendo Consoles? Then I am not getting Street Fighter".

Again, that sounds more like a fanboy than a traditionalist. Buying a console simply because of who makes it, regardless of your opinion on the console?

I can see why that would be the case, but their reasons for purchasing it are different. The Traditionalist does not refuse to buy other versions of that game (this is only true for the loyal fanbase) if it is on a different console, but they will go to the preferred console first.

The fanboy will refuse to buy the game and call it the 'inferior version" if it is not on the console they prefer. Where Traditionalists are willing to bend are where Fanboys are not.

 

[Strofirko]

How about we stop arguing over what traditional gamers are and instead talk about how it would be awesome to have Charizard and Greymon face off against each other in Smash even if it is rather unlikely?

It would be cool until some kiddos started to asking to flood the roster with digimon characters,and then would stop being cool and more a mistake.

 

[Champ Gold]

Probally if ryu didn't get leaked beforehand the backslash would be worse.

Backslash isn't that great of an attack and is very situational.

Spoiler

Not really. The hype would have exploded greatly if that would have happened. Because no one would have expected it and that makes it better. That's why I kinda detest leaks because it sucks the hype out of what would have been surprising (the one reason why trailer would have been big time instead of just 'we expected it'. Same with ).

 

[Deleted member]

It would be cool until some kiddos started to asking to flood the roster with digimon characters,and then would stop being cool and more a mistake.

Just like Sonic, then?

 

[Wolfie557]

Ryu is so retry recognizable if you're atleast been gaming for a while. And if you're an enthusiast at it.

Problem is we're counting the new age Nintendo fans where they are only familiar with Nintendo series since the GC era.

Most 3rd party choices are leaning on that nostagia side (aside from Rayman who's only in there because of his trophy and fake leak).

If anything, people will know him if Nintendo starts getting some Capcom games on the Wii U more offen. Especially getting USF4 which can be easily ported and be funded for a port like Sony did

hey hey hey hey.

I;m from the Wii/DS era....well..... very end of it! Actually I count that part of my gaming life as "mega casual" lol.

And I still am surprised at the low Rayman support before the leak.... though it was just behind Pacman level.

 

[Strofirko]

Just like Sonic, then?

At least he would have a good moveset,I think...

 

[Champ Gold]

hey hey hey hey.

I;m from the Wii/DS era....well..... very end of it! Actually I count that part of my gaming life as "mega casual" lol.

And I still am surprised at the low Rayman support before the leak.... though it was just behind Pacman level.

Got insane support due to 3 reasons
1.He's the Godfather of video games and a big icon. (He's got a Super Bowl commercial)

2.Myamoto pushed for him in Brawl and inspired him for his video games

3.Right when Bamco was announced that they will help work on the next Smash, guess what everyone thought, confirmed.


Rayman never had that support until Artsy trolled the whole internet, and even then he had his trophy which was only revealed in a POTD (right before a Smash trailer)

Same with Banjo who Phil Spencer only said to draw up interest for Banjo but fans took it a mile. It's always been like that. Hint out a character or act like this character is gonna be in and everyone will push for it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't get these hunger game posts and other similar types of games like the one Fatmanonice posted, they seem really irrelevant to Character Discussion.

Because it's been almost nothing but lengthy debates about Ryu for the past couple of days and I wanted to lighten the mood. Plus it was like 2 in the morning where I lived and I couldn't sleep.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The chance of Nintendo vs Capcom is the only reason Ryu's inclusion is mildly exciting. (That and it maybe opens the door a little more for BK and Snake to join..)

Snake I'll give. I definitely think Snake is a lot more likely now (though its mostly if he ranks high on the ballot; I don't think he'll be added before the ballot at this point). BK? Still think they're next-to-impossible.