Character Discussion Thread

[Cutie Gwen]

I officially want Lyn to pull a Little Mac more than ever

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Ok I did more research and found out there was a third game called Nuts and Bolts.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Ok I did more research and found out there was a third game called Nuts and Bolts.

Yeah, which is generally hated quite a bit. Nuts and Bolts has nothing to do with Banjo-Kazooie except it stars the same characters. Its not inherently a bad game as I've heard, its just not Banjo-Threeie.

 

[Burruni]

BK is like irrelevant to the generations after N64.

That's 3 of them.

This... is one of the significant reasons why I just can't get behind them as newcomers.

as his original design really only got re-releases after the late SNES, early N64 era. But with how much the various series under the Megaman title has kept the name important if nothing else.

has, is, and probably will forever be relevant for all stages of gaming culture just like .

while not as popular as he used to be, you can't truly make the case that Sonic has been irrelevant to any generations... any CONSOLE since the Dreamcast died.

Ryu, as has been stated, has appeared wide across Playstation, Nintendo and Arcades since the series started up. I'm not huge for the character, him as a fighter, or really care about Street Fighter in general. But he's relevant and significant enough to be a candidate for 3rd Party with merits not many can equal.

 

[Wolfie557]

Gandalf says hi.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I still think Banjo-Threeie is happening. But it will be X-Box One exclusive.

 

[Burruni]

Ok I did more research and found out there was a third game called Nuts and Bolts.

Nuts & Bolts is like Super Mario Sunshine.

If Sunshine was a third person shooter with almost no platforming what so ever.
With Mario not having the ability to spin-jump, backflip, wall-jump, long-jump or basically any of the platforming abilities that are more complex than walking at a brisk pace and a singular jump.
And openly mocked Super Mario 64 and almost everything people loved about it.
And came out on the Wii with NO Mario titles in between.

And had THIS kind of hype building trailer!

 

[Wolfie557]

I don't like Banjo-Kazooie.

I think it's the bear's fault.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I don't like Banjo-Kazooie.

I think it's the bear's fault.

Then surely there is love in your heart for Kazooie at least.

Although granted that is not Banjo's best look.

 

[Champ Gold]

After the massive successes of Donkey Kong Country 1-3, Rareware released Banjo-Kazooie. It was a 3D platformer/collectathon with the fighting being more of a feature but not a focus. With writing humor, creativity, the looks of it, and music, it is a game that quite a few considered to be Mario 64 done better. Needless to say, it was massively popular. A few years after, the sequel of Banjo-Tooie was made which was a direct sequel that felt perfectly like a continuation of the first title that further evolved the combat, platforming, and puzzle abilities that you had at hand and had a lot more interconnected sense of the levels while having a bit less charm overall. At the end of it, the main villain left off with a great teaser saying that she will exact her revenge in Banjo-Threeie. These two games were some of the biggest sellers of the N64 that rivaled and arguably surpassed OoT-MM and SM64.

After this, Donkey Kong Country 64 was... basically the mediocre result of "Banjoifying" Donkey Kong and just having too much to collect in the game for a few. Later, they worked on a Zelda-ish title by the name of Dinosaur Planet that became Star Fox Adventures.

Sadly, Banjo-Threeie, while being worked on for the Gamecube, was forever lost as a title when Rareware was bought out by Microsoft.

Kazooie and Tooie didn't surpass any sales. Check Wikipedia, Smash 64, Mario 64, Star Fox, OOT, MM Goldeneye, DK 64 and Perfect Dark still surpassed them in sales

 

[JaidynReiman]

Its ironic, but yeah, despite DK64 not being considered as good as Banjo-Kazooie (some even claiming its an outright bad/horrible game) it still sold a lot more copies. And despite the fact that even I myself ranked DK64 quite low on my DK games list I'm still loving it to death replaying through it. Except for some frustrating golden bananas (scarab races, owl, Donkey's igloo in Crystal Caves).

I was actually surprised, I thought me liking the game was just the kid in me 10 years ago and I'd have to force myself to slog through it, but in a few days I've only got Creepy Castle left with everything prior 100% completed (including everything in DK Isles I can get prior to unlocking Hideout Helm). Instead of forcing myself to play the game I have to force myself to stop. Meanwhile I AM slogging through DKC3, and I'll do the same for Returns.

 

[MagnesD3]

Sakurai broke like 5 of his rules between after Brawl's release and now. lol.

Now he needs to break his Ridley rule...

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Now he needs to break his Ridley rule...

Inb4 Ridley is too small comments.

 

[MagnesD3]

Its ironic, but yeah, despite DK64 not being considered as good as Banjo-Kazooie (some even claiming its an outright bad/horrible game) it still sold a lot more copies. And despite the fact that even I myself ranked DK64 quite low on my DK games list I'm still loving it to death replaying through it. Except for some frustrating golden bananas (scarab races, owl, Donkey's igloo in Crystal Caves).

I was actually surprised, I thought me liking the game was just the kid in me 10 years ago and I'd have to force myself to slog through it, but in a few days I've only got Creepy Castle left with everything prior 100% completed (including everything in DK Isles I can get prior to unlocking Hideout Helm). Instead of forcing myself to play the game I have to force myself to stop. Meanwhile I AM slogging through DKC3, and I'll do the same for Returns.

Dk64 is a good/fun game but it has alot of problems, it honestly feels like the beta game of banjo tooie. The music, minigames, levels, bosses and different characters are fun, but it suffers from collectibles that dont feel rewarding enough, and reused assets (guns, instruments, minigames, etc.).

Ok I did more research and found out there was a third game called Nuts and Bolts.

Shhhhhh! There is no third game, we are still waiting on Banjo-Threeie...

 

[Ura]

DK64 is much better than either Banjo game IMO. I'm a type of person that likes to collect a bunch of stuff and what not so it was really the game for me.

IMO, DK64 > Banjo Tooie > Banjo Kazooie

 

[Wolfie557]

Inb4 Ridley is too small comments.

 

[JaidynReiman]

DK64 is much better than either Banjo game IMO. I'm a type of person that likes to collect a bunch of stuff and what not so it was really the game for me.

IMO, DK64 > Banjo Tooie > Banjo Kazooie

That's the exact opposite of what most would argue. Most I've seen far prefer Kazooie to Tooie.

 

[Curious Villager]

DK64 is much better than either Banjo game IMO. I'm a type of person that likes to collect a bunch of stuff and what not so it was really the game for me.

IMO, DK64 > Banjo Tooie > Banjo Kazooie

Yeah I never really had any issues with the collection aspect of DK64.

The only thing I didn't really like about it (And realized it just recently after replaying it on Wii U virtual console) is the minigames.

 

[Kenith]

I officially want Lyn to pull a Little Mac more than ever

I want a lot of characters to pull a Little Mac right now.
There are a lot of Assist Trophies that would make for more fun characters than who were chosen in their place imo.

 

[MagnesD3]

That's the exact opposite of what most would argue. Most I've seen far prefer Kazooie to Tooie.

Yeah I would rank them BK>BT>DK64 for me personally. But the Banjo games are waaay better than dk64, its just they are all good titles.

 

[aldelaro5]

Yeah I never really had any issues with the collection aspect of DK64.

The only thing I didn't really like about it (And realized it just recently after replaying it on Wii U virtual console) is the minigames.

But this freaking voice....

WELCOME TO THE BONUS STAGE!!!!

Ah.....it gets me every time I LOVE IT!!!!

 

[EmceeEspio]

I still think Banjo-Threeie is happening. But it will be X-Box One exclusive.

With Rare's teasing, something better be happening.

Hopefully Project Ukelele will hit Wii U while we're on the subject.

 

[Curious Villager]

But this freaking voice....

WELCOME TO THE BONUS STAGE!!!!

Ah.....it gets me every time I LOVE IT!!!!

I actually find it pretty annoying. (Which is actually a pretty rare thing for a person like me because I don't really tend to get annoyed by a lot of things most people seem to do.) I guess it's pretty neat if you hear it every so often and not every time you fail a minigame.... But I guess that's just my opinion.

Oh well that's a discussion for another thread. Let's get back to talking about characters.

 

[Burruni]

Kazooie and Tooie didn't surpass any sales. Check Wikipedia, Smash 64, Mario 64, Star Fox, OOT, MM Goldeneye, DK 64 and Perfect Dark still surpassed them in sales

...Okay. That was my ignorance =/ Thought they did better. I certainly didn't expect them to overtake many, but I thought they'd rival a few.

 

[aldelaro5]

I actually find it pretty annoying. (Which is actually a pretty rare thing for a person like me because I don't really tend to get annoyed by a lot of things most people seem to do.) I guess it's pretty neat if you hear it every so often and not every time you fail a minigame.... But I guess that's just my opinion.

But the music and the

WEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLL DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE!!!!!!

Seriously, this is almost Paper Mario level of cheerfulness

 

[Curious Villager]

But the music and the

WEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLL DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE!!!!!!

Seriously, this is almost Paper Mario level of cheerfulness

I did like that part though. Probably because you don't hear it as often and it makes you feel like you just got a huge boulder off your chest....

 

[Champ Gold]

...Okay. That was my ignorance =/ Thought they did better. I certainly didn't expect them to overtake many, but I thought they'd rival a few.

They did but all I knew is that at best they did outsell the AKI wrestling games, Paper Mario, F-Zero X, Conker, Killer Instinct 2 and Mario Party 3. Which most of those games still sold a million copies but none of the Banjo games ever broke the top 10 in sales for the N64.

Other platforms still beat it out even Kirby. I know Crash and Spyro pretty much outdid them entirely.

 

[JaidynReiman]

...Okay. That was my ignorance =/ Thought they did better. I certainly didn't expect them to overtake many, but I thought they'd rival a few.

Well, its certainly not bad by any means. I didn't see exact numbers on Wikipedia, but I do know its around 3.5m or so (VGChartz says 3.65). But despite being considered a worse game DK64 sold 1m-1.5m more.

They did but all I knew is that at best they did outsell the AKI wrestling games, Paper Mario, F-Zero X, Conker, Killer Instinct 2 and Mario Party 3. Which most of those games still sold a million copies but none of the Banjo games ever broke the top 10 in sales for the N64.

Other platforms still beat it out even Kirby. I know Crash and Spyro pretty much outdid them entirely.

According to VGChartz, Kirby 64 (1.77m) only beat Banjo-Tooie (1.49m). Obviously VGChartz isn't fully accurate but for higher selling games the numbers tend to be more accurate because they're officially announced elsewhere.

 

[Dravidian]

See, at least you see positive things coming from this.

As for a large portion of the fanbase, I simply do not know what to tell you guys. I really don't think you understand the amazing thing that can happen here.

Smash stopped being ONLY ABOUT NINTENDO since Brawl. Sonic is not a Nintendo character. He is a SEGA character. As much as he seems to be an "honorary Nintendo character" he isn't. He's from SEGA.

Mega Man is not a Nintendo character. He is a Capcom character that appeared on Nintendo consoles. Same thing as Sonic.

There was nothing wrong with these two getting in. I will be the first to admit that Snake was a strange and surprising addition. No, he wasn't one of the characters that would have been at the top of the list. But you know what? He's as much a part of Smash Bros. as any veteran. If you want him to stay out, great. You're just as bad as the people who want another character out and don't care that it disappoints his fans. Fine. Whatever.

There were literally people complaining about Pac-Man. The grand daddy of video games. "Pac-Man is boring!" " Pac-Man doesn't deserve it!" "Pac-Man sucks!". You could not possibly understand how upsetting it is for people to trash a gaming...no, historical character, yet praise gaming character #539018 as if they're the best thing since sliced bread. Excuse me, but it sounds rather entitled when I see somebody saying, "Ugh. Ryu? Man, this guy is so boring!" You know who I thought was a boring idea before getting revealed? Duck Hunt. Robin. Lucina. But now that I've played them, I love them! I never want them cut.

Smash IS NOT...I REPEAT IS NOT JUST ABOUT NINTENDO ANYMORE. The minute Snake was added, it became more than that.

Remember when people wanted Sonic because the idea of Mario vs. Sonic was a once in a lifetime thing that had never happened before? Yeah, me too. It was awesome.

Remember when people were excited for Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man? Yeah, me too. It's awesome. Remember when Pac-Man was assumed to be in, and the concept of 4 of the greatest characters in gaming became a reality? Yeah me too. It's a great thing. 3 of the biggest non-Nintendo stars in gaming are in the same game. It's unheard of. It's never happened before.

But now, the minute Sakurai thinks it would be cool to add another video gaming icon, it turns into "HE'S NOT NINTENDO ENOUGH". Hey, spoiler alert. They don't have to be Nintendo. They only have to have...ONE GAME. ONE GAME IS ALL IT TAKES. YOUR FAN STANDARDS DO NOT MATTER. SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE. IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

I tried to make a very informational post yesterday and the time since this leaked. But people ignore it and continue to trash characters that, frankly, deserve more respect than that. I've loved Nintendo since I was a kid. I played Smash since I was a small child. I was freaking prescribed video games to improve my hand-eye coordination, and I grew up strictly on Nintendo consoles. Then, I expanded my horizons. I played other series. I played games that aren't Nintendo. There are plenty of characters out there that have the clout to go toe to toe with Mario. Not just the minor ones who are only on Nintendo consoles.

This is already a massive post, but I'm not done. Too many people on here use points that can absolutely not be used as facts against a character being a good choice. Not only that, but what does Ryu do to Smash other than expand the universes and games involved? You don't have to play as Ryu. He's not competing with your precious #1 pick. Odds are, 6 choices were pretty much decided on. The ballot doesn't even close until OCTOBER. Why would they pick somebody from it already when it hasn't even been in effect for more than roughly a month?

I am a proud Smash fan. No other game gets me nearly as hyped. But some of the responses here make me sad. Smash fans put themselves in a Nintendo-centric world where nothing else matters. But in reality, that's not the case. Nintendo has poor 3rd party support, and Mr. Iwata has already said he considers the Wii U as a secondary console to Microsoft and Sony...they are not direct competitors. This is why getting for example, Solid Snake (who meets all requirements to be in Super Smash Bros.) isn't nearly as big of a deal as some make it out to be.

Listen, nobody has to have read this. You can think I'm a quack. I don't really care. But I'm very disappointed in the reactions people are having toward a gaming icon being in Smash Bros. Sakurai himself is a gamer. He doesn't constrict himself to only Nintendo games...so why should he be forced to restrict the guest characters he brings in? Sakurai loves his career, and he loves the industry he works in.

Frankly, I think we all should.

(Hey, thanks for reading. This is mainly venting that I've held in because I see this too often.)

I 99% agree with you dude. I do believe that smash is still mostly about nintendo/nintendo history and that 3rd parties should be added warily, but some people just get so uptight when they're mentioned.

I'm also pretty sure that the character needs to have originated in a game, not just be in one, but I could be wrong.

That said none of us knows exactly what Sakurai's or Nintendo's reasoning for choices are, and analyzing every word he says (which is often laced with PS speak; being a public face requires political tact) seems rather fruit less. If people stuck to simply explaining their love for a character instead of pissing on others choices, making up rules, and not even entertaining the idea that they could be wrong, the world would be a better place.

 

[Tepig2000]

You know who'd make for a really cool Final Fantasy character in Smash? Cecil from Final Fantasy IV. I personally feel he's important enough. He was the first named protagonist in the series (at least outside of japan). I would love to play as him in Smash.

 

[Dravidian]

I finally got around to voting:

It probably wont happen, but I'm satisfied since at the very least they know I want to see more of her.

 

[aldelaro5]

Ok, I feel I'm the only one who took the effort to optimize my ballot to have 500 characters and be grammatically correct without any typos.

I mean, don't tell me I'm the only that made more than 400 characters right?

....right?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Ok, I feel I'm the only one who took the effort to optimize my ballot to have 500 characters and be grammatically correct without any typos.

I mean, don't tell me I'm the only that made more than 400 characters right?

....right?

I did it twice.

One was 490 characters the other was 499

The rest have been not as long.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Ok, I feel I'm the only one who took the effort to optimize my ballot to have 500 characters and be grammatically correct without any typos.

I mean, don't tell me I'm the only that made more than 400 characters right?

....right?

I didn't on my first, but I did on the second.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I'll put an end to the Simon Belmont Argument right here,

So you say Simon Belmont changes his look in every Castlevania game and he can't be in Smash? Well here's what I have to say:

 

[MainJPW]

I did it twice.

One was 490 characters the other was 499

The rest have been not as long.

Wow, really shows how dedicated you are to your most wanted! I can't even do that for mine. (K. Rool)

 

[A Distant Demon]

Wow, really shows how dedicated you are to your most wanted! I can't even do that for mine. (K. Rool)

it was actually originally like 700 for both but it had to be cut down because it was too big (it's funny brcause Ridley was one of them).


. . . i never did do a big write up for Viridi or Viewtiful Joe though. I should do that.

You know who'd make for a really cool Final Fantasy character in Smash? Cecil from Final Fantasy IV. I personally feel he's important enough. He was the first named protagonist in the series (at least outside of japan). I would love to play as him in Smash.

never heard of him. like ever.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The only way I'd be okay with a Final Fantasy character in Smash, is if this is their final smash.

It doesn't even have to be Tidus.

 

[MainJPW]

The only way I'd be okay with a Final Fantasy character in Smash, is if this is their final smash.

It doesn't even have to be Tidus.

Lol, I almost forgot about that. Maybe it'd be more appropriate as a victory screen?

 

[Deleted member]

You know, with Ryu being added and throwing my "3 guest limit" theory out the window, that does raise an interesting question...
Why was Snake not planned for Smash 4 in the first place?

Though considering Ryu was only thrown in as DLC, the "3 guest limit" theory may have applied for the main roster, but DLC is fair game.

All we really have at this point is speculation at least from what I know. Right now I assume Snake has a 50/50 shot of returning until we get something pointing either way for him.

Its ironic, but yeah, despite DK64 not being considered as good as Banjo-Kazooie (some even claiming its an outright bad/horrible game) it still sold a lot more copies. And despite the fact that even I myself ranked DK64 quite low on my DK games list I'm still loving it to death replaying through it. Except for some frustrating golden bananas (scarab races, owl, Donkey's igloo in Crystal Caves).

I was actually surprised, I thought me liking the game was just the kid in me 10 years ago and I'd have to force myself to slog through it, but in a few days I've only got Creepy Castle left with everything prior 100% completed (including everything in DK Isles I can get prior to unlocking Hideout Helm). Instead of forcing myself to play the game I have to force myself to stop. Meanwhile I AM slogging through DKC3, and I'll do the same for Returns.

The game was near universally praised back when it was released, getting a 90 on Metacritic for example. The criticisms for the game seemed to have come a lot later thought I loved it when I was a child.