Character Discussion Thread

Rockaphin · Apr 19, 2015

MoveMan1 said:
Smash already has a Ryu of it's own, and it's Mario. We don't need another one, and we certainly shouldn't want another one for the sake of being the cool kid who saw it coming.

Saying Mario would play just like Ryu is a little crazy. Just because they are both shoto's doesn't mean they'll end up playing the same. Lot's of things to consider before writing them off as the same character.

A Distant Demon · Apr 19, 2015

RoseyBetch said:
Wait, I have been busy the past few days. Is the Roy/Ryu leak confirmed true?

the code is there 100%. its a question of if it will be used

MoveMan1 said:
Smash already has a Ryu of it's own, and it's Mario. We don't need another one, and we certainly shouldn't want another one for the sake of being the cool kid who saw it coming.

lol.
ryu isnt going to play like mario.
And you arent allowed to say people are not allowed to want something lol. that is just silly.

AEMehr · Apr 19, 2015

RoseyBetch said:
Wait, I have been busy the past few days. Is the Roy/Ryu leak confirmed true?

More or less, more files are being found in the game's data to lead to it being inevitable.

MoveMan1 said:
Smash already has a Ryu of it's own, and it's Mario. We don't need another one, and we certainly shouldn't want another one for the sake of being the cool kid who saw it coming.

Sid-cada said:
Or maybe they're referring to the fact that we have his move set three times over.

Ryu is literally nothing like Mario aside from uppercut and fireball.

If you think two moves make a character a clone, I can only assume you believe Lucario and Mewtwo are clones as well as Fox and Wolf.

SMAASH! Puppy · Apr 19, 2015

Rockaphin said:
Saying Mario would play just like Ryu is a little crazy. Just because they are both shoto's doesn't mean they'll end up playing the same. Lot's of things to consider before writing them off as the same character.

If anything they will be semi-clones. They will obviously have different hitboxe placement, and weight values

Dragoncharystary · Apr 19, 2015

Graizen said:
After Mewtwo + 7 there are 5 additional “Mario”s listed. This means, that there are 5 additional unused characters in the fighter table in the latest update. Right now, we know for sure that Lucas is coming. After Lucas, it is heavily suggested that Roy (Fire Emblem) and Ryu (Street Fighter) will be incoming as DLC. Therefore, we have two additional slots for DLC. Whether the two slots will be used for the ballot results, or for pre-ballot result DLC is unknown. Stay tuned for additional information.

https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/18/all-about-ryu-and-roys-files/

Wolf.

Graizen · Apr 19, 2015

SmashChu · Apr 19, 2015

Starphoenix said:
Ridley wouldn't come close. Outside of the small echo chamber that is the Smash community, fewer people would know or care about him compared to Ryu. The only character that could outsell him would probably be another guest character, if even that. Maybe Cloud? As much as it makes me vomit to admit.

Who do you think SMash Brothers DLC is going to sell to? The most dedicated fans, who want characters like K Rool and Ridley. Just because more people know Ryu doesn't mean those people want to go buy him for Super Smash Brothers. A big reason Nintendo is doing the ballot is to guage who they should develop in order to make the most money.

Sid-cada · Apr 19, 2015

AEM said:
Ryu is literally nothing like Mario aside from uppercut and fireball.

If you think two moves make a character a clone, I can only assume you believe Lucario and Mewtwo are clones as well as Fox and Wolf.

Well, technically they also share the Hurricane Kick (Albeit, Mario had his moved to the down-air instead of a special), and the tendency for them to be the "The Balanced One" whom other characters are based and balanced around.

Really though, they're all Shotoclones, which defines Ryu, so it's going to be harder to make him special because I have doubts that Sakurai would have something like the QCF, let alone the Dragon Punch. That gives us 3 of the special moves right there, and with his perception of being the balanced bread-and-butter like Mario, it's going to be difficult to separate him out from what's already here. The best I've seen is some sort of Meter going to specials, which again feels like trying to recycle the KO punch.

DJ3DS · Apr 19, 2015

AEM said:
I think people find him dull for the same reasons people see Superman dull. He's kinda like the original fighting game character, so him being seen as dull isn't exactly that justified.

Not really. People find Superman dull because he has an absurd set of powers in most iterations. He doesn't have enough flaws to be an interesting character. This said, if you ever have time, read the Injustice comics - I think those do a fantastic job of making him more interesting.

Ryu is a more a case of being the "bread and butter" fighting character. His movesets are so famous that you'll probably find every single attack of his on some character already (All of Falcons tilts, for example), and he is viewed as the go to beginner character in Street Fighter. I think there is also an element that people know pretty much exactly what to expect with him.

This said I think he is a great addition. For the longest time I didn't really think about him; because I wasn't really thinking about 3rd party characters full stop. However he instantly shot up to my 2nd most wanted character when I thought about it.

Also, the only characters with a shot of AT in my opinion are the following:
- Chun Li
- M Bison
- Akuma

Sagat is actually my favourite SF character thanks to his sweet eyepatch but I am under no illusion as to who has a shot at representation.

Spinosaurus · Apr 19, 2015

SmashChu said:
Who do you think SMash Brothers DLC is going to sell to? The most dedicated fans, who want characters like K Rool and Ridley. Just because more people know Ryu doesn't mean those people want to go buy him for Super Smash Brothers. A big reason Nintendo is doing the ballot is to guage who they should develop in order to make the most money.

Wait you seriously think the mass media won't be all over Smash DLC? We're talking about a multi million selling franchise.

Not to mention we're a very specefic minority. I'll refer back to Freddy being the highest selling Mortal Kombat 9 DLC dedpite dedicated fans not wanting him. Why? Because damn near everyone knows Nightmare on Elm Street.

Dragoncharystary · Apr 19, 2015

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 Why hasn't anyone suggested an El Fuerte AT yet? :chuckle:

http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

MoveMan1 · Apr 19, 2015

When I said Mario is Smash's Ryu, I mean Mario is that one character no-one cares about, but has to show up in every game, or the world's gone mad.

If there was a good argument for Ryu in smash other than iconicity, or how much money it would make Nintendo, or "Ooh! if he gets in, we might get more 3rd party characters!", then I'd be fine with him. But there just isn't.

Smash characters aren't just chosen for their fame, they're chosen for interesting movesets and playstyles, and various other reasons. They should not get in just because they succeed by leaps and bounds in one area, they should be in because they succeed in all areas at least a little. Even Pacman didn't get in until Namco helped Sakurai finally give him a interesting moveset.

Rockaphin · Apr 19, 2015

MoveMan1 said:
When I said Mario is Smash's Ryu, I mean Mario is that one character no-one cares about, but has to show up in every game, or the world's gone mad.

Well, I'd riot with the rest of the world if Mario wasn't in a Nintendo All-Star game.

DJ3DS · Apr 19, 2015

Sid-cada said:
Well, technically they also share the Hurricane Kick (Albeit, Mario had his moved to the down-air instead of a special), and the tendency for them to be the "The Balanced One" whom other characters are based and balanced around.

Really though, they're all Shotoclones, which defines Ryu, so it's going to be harder to make him special because I have doubts that Sakurai would have something like the QCF, let alone the Dragon Punch. That gives us 3 of the special moves right there, and with his perception of being the balanced bread-and-butter like Mario, it's going to be difficult to separate him out from what's already here. The best I've seen is some sort of Meter going to specials, which again feels like trying to recycle the KO punch.

Mario definitely takes a lot of cues from Ryu - especially in the early games. But they have both evolved enough in order to play distinctly differently. Mario does inherit the uppercut and the Fireball. However, his other two specials are hugely different. He has non damaging pushbacks and a reflector. Ryu would have neither of these. He has the Hurricane Kick (Which I'd say Dr Mario has, but Mario doesn't because it's implementation as a Down Air loses its horizontal movement utility and it's use on the ground) and an extra special. The viable choices for this (stunning Focus Attack, command grab taken from Akuma/Gouken is another possibility I put in my moveset on the thread) are very different to Mario's as well. His sex kick, U-Air and potentially F-air are similar to what Ryu is likely to get (in my opinion). As for tilts, I'd say Captain Falcon would be closest to my interpretation of Ryu there. Also, Mario's attributes would be quite different. Proportions mean Ryu would likely have better range, but be nowhere near as agile in the air (though I imagine a better recovery) and without disjoints on some moves like Mario has.

Also the EX meter wouldn't really be like Mac. Ryu would get the option to periodically increase damage output or length of combo strings. Mac gets the opportunity to murder you with an unshieldable, effective OHKO every stock or two.

SmashChu · Apr 19, 2015

Spinosaurus said:
Wait you seriously think the mass media won't be all over Smash DLC? We're talking about a multi million selling franchise.

Not to mention we're a very specefic minority. I'll refer back to Freddy being the highest selling Mortal Kombat 9 DLC dedpite dedicated fans not wanting him. Why? Because damn near everyone knows Nightmare on Elm Street.

Smash is a multi million dollar franchise, but not every consumers is going to go out and buy DLC, let alone care or keep up with it. The DLC is going to sell best to dedicated fans who are willing to shell out money for new characters. Most people wont want to pay $4-$5 for a new character because they wont get a same amount of value from them as someone like us. Also, Street Fighter fans aren't going to immediatly go out and buy a copy of the game plus the DLC just because Ryu is in it.
Again, the Ballot is out there so consumers can willingly give Nintendo data on characters and they can make characters that will sell the best. The characters who are going to sell the best are the ones dedicated fans want. I'm not saying it's exactly what SmashBoards wants. But it's a decent start.
I can't speak to Mortal Kombat, but keep in mind they are different games. Smash Bros's roster is made up of characters who have been in other games. DLC for Mortal Kombat would be returing characters or completly new, never before seen characters, so a well known character like Freddy may do better than "New Brown Ninja," whos first every apperance is this game.
If I have a lot of errors, it's because I'm typing this in Notepad and my crappy work laptop lags when typing on SmashBoards.

Dragoncharystary · Apr 19, 2015

My reaction if M. Bison was the SF Assist.

Scoliosis Jones · Apr 19, 2015

The Ryu salt is real. Holy crap.

Oracle_Summon · Apr 19, 2015

Scoliosis Jones said:
The Ryu salt is real. Holy crap.

When you say "salt" are you talking about those who say he is a clone or those who think he won't be the best selling DLC character?

JaidynReiman · Apr 19, 2015

Scoliosis Jones said:
The Ryu salt is real. Holy crap.

Frankly I don't care that much about Ryu. I just think he's an odd choice and think Nintendo probably is planning something else with Capcom, which is why Ryu is in. I don't care about Ryu being playable, but I do like it because I think it increases the potential for things to happen in the future, namely more character DLC, and perhaps a crossover with Capcom.

mark welford · Apr 19, 2015

If this leak holds up with Ryu Smash will not only be Nintendo history, but will encompass in a way gaming history itself kind of. I'm sitting here like Meh when it comes to this leak the more the merrier but seriously though ever since I found out Wolf was cut my heart has been aching and I am broken hearted. I don't care how many characters come I do not care how long the wait is I just want him back because my yearning and longing burns hotly for him.

A Distant Demon · Apr 19, 2015

mark welford said:
my heart has been aching and I am broken hearted. I don't care how many come I do not care how long the wait is I just want him back because my yearning and longing burns hotly for him.

words to be taken out of context.

it would be so easy. It could be perfect

Yomi's Biggest Fan · Apr 19, 2015

Dragoncharystary said:
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 Why hasn't anyone suggested an El Fuerte AT yet?http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

Because he's the most hated of the Street Fighter IV newcomers along with Rufus.

AEMehr · Apr 19, 2015

Sid-cada said:
Well, technically they also share the Hurricane Kick (Albeit, Mario had his moved to the down-air instead of a special), and the tendency for them to be the "The Balanced One" whom other characters are based and balanced around.

The Hurricane Kick works nothing like Mario Tornado though. Visual similarities (spinny limb extension attack!!) does not make the two moves the exact same.

Really though, they're all Shotoclones, which defines Ryu, so it's going to be harder to make him special because I have doubts that Sakurai would have something like the QCF, let alone the Dragon Punch. That gives us 3 of the special moves right there, and with his perception of being the balanced bread-and-butter like Mario, it's going to be difficult to separate him out from what's already here. The best I've seen is some sort of Meter going to specials, which again feels like trying to recycle the KO punch.

It's possible the A+B to Smash could be incorporated somewhere. Button combinations are a staple in traditional fighting games.
The Super Meter idea is pretty different from the KO Meter in practice. KO Meter is only usable once full, the Super Meter would allow Ryu to trade portions of it for a "better" variation of his specials as long as he has enough Meter to do so.
That's different and unique enough for me.

mark welford · Apr 19, 2015

oni333 said:
words to be taken out of context.

it would be so easy. It could be perfect

I do not get what you are hinting at honestly but I do know that I was getting something off my chest.

A Distant Demon · Apr 19, 2015

mark welford said:
I do not get what you are hinting at honestly but I do know that I was getting something off my chest.

It sounds like you are lusting for a lover not missing a video game character.

Thats why i quoted it

Scoliosis Jones · Apr 19, 2015

JaidynReiman said:
Frankly I don't care that much about Ryu. I just think he's an odd choice and think Nintendo probably is planning something else with Capcom, which is why Ryu is in. I don't care about Ryu being playable, but I do like it because I think it increases the potential for things to happen in the future, namely more character DLC, and perhaps a crossover with Capcom.

See, at least you see positive things coming from this.

As for a large portion of the fanbase, I simply do not know what to tell you guys. I really don't think you understand the amazing thing that can happen here.

Smash stopped being ONLY ABOUT NINTENDO since Brawl. Sonic is not a Nintendo character. He is a SEGA character. As much as he seems to be an "honorary Nintendo character" he isn't. He's from SEGA.

Mega Man is not a Nintendo character. He is a Capcom character that appeared on Nintendo consoles. Same thing as Sonic.

There was nothing wrong with these two getting in. I will be the first to admit that Snake was a strange and surprising addition. No, he wasn't one of the characters that would have been at the top of the list. But you know what? He's as much a part of Smash Bros. as any veteran. If you want him to stay out, great. You're just as bad as the people who want another character out and don't care that it disappoints his fans. Fine. Whatever.

There were literally people complaining about Pac-Man. The grand daddy of video games. "Pac-Man is boring!" " Pac-Man doesn't deserve it!" "Pac-Man sucks!". You could not possibly understand how upsetting it is for people to trash a gaming...no, historical character, yet praise gaming character #539018 as if they're the best thing since sliced bread. Excuse me, but it sounds rather entitled when I see somebody saying, "Ugh. Ryu? Man, this guy is so boring!" You know who I thought was a boring idea before getting revealed? Duck Hunt. Robin. Lucina. But now that I've played them, I love them! I never want them cut.

Smash IS NOT...I REPEAT IS NOT JUST ABOUT NINTENDO ANYMORE. The minute Snake was added, it became more than that.

Remember when people wanted Sonic because the idea of Mario vs. Sonic was a once in a lifetime thing that had never happened before? Yeah, me too. It was awesome.

Remember when people were excited for Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man? Yeah, me too. It's awesome. Remember when Pac-Man was assumed to be in, and the concept of 4 of the greatest characters in gaming became a reality? Yeah me too. It's a great thing. 3 of the biggest non-Nintendo stars in gaming are in the same game. It's unheard of. It's never happened before.

But now, the minute Sakurai thinks it would be cool to add another video gaming icon, it turns into "HE'S NOT NINTENDO ENOUGH". Hey, spoiler alert. They don't have to be Nintendo. They only have to have...ONE GAME. ONE GAME IS ALL IT TAKES. YOUR FAN STANDARDS DO NOT MATTER. SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE. IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

I tried to make a very informational post yesterday and the time since this leaked. But people ignore it and continue to trash characters that, frankly, deserve more respect than that. I've loved Nintendo since I was a kid. I played Smash since I was a small child. I was freaking prescribed video games to improve my hand-eye coordination, and I grew up strictly on Nintendo consoles. Then, I expanded my horizons. I played other series. I played games that aren't Nintendo. There are plenty of characters out there that have the clout to go toe to toe with Mario. Not just the minor ones who are only on Nintendo consoles.

This is already a massive post, but I'm not done. Too many people on here use points that can absolutely not be used as facts against a character being a good choice. Not only that, but what does Ryu do to Smash other than expand the universes and games involved? You don't have to play as Ryu. He's not competing with your precious #1 pick. Odds are, 6 choices were pretty much decided on. The ballot doesn't even close until OCTOBER. Why would they pick somebody from it already when it hasn't even been in effect for more than roughly a month?

I am a proud Smash fan. No other game gets me nearly as hyped. But some of the responses here make me sad. Smash fans put themselves in a Nintendo-centric world where nothing else matters. But in reality, that's not the case. Nintendo has poor 3rd party support, and Mr. Iwata has already said he considers the Wii U as a secondary console to Microsoft and Sony...they are not direct competitors. This is why getting for example, Solid Snake (who meets all requirements to be in Super Smash Bros.) isn't nearly as big of a deal as some make it out to be.

Listen, nobody has to have read this. You can think I'm a quack. I don't really care. But I'm very disappointed in the reactions people are having toward a gaming icon being in Smash Bros. Sakurai himself is a gamer. He doesn't constrict himself to only Nintendo games...so why should he be forced to restrict the guest characters he brings in? Sakurai loves his career, and he loves the industry he works in.

Frankly, I think we all should.

(Hey, thanks for reading. This is mainly venting that I've held in because I see this too often.)

Yomi's Biggest Fan · Apr 19, 2015

Damn, the salt here is almost as much as how the Sonic fans reacted to the news. But hey, they always want their beloved franchise to get more representation because Sonic is supposedly on Mario's level of iconic legacy. :rolleyes:

bksbestbwoy · Apr 19, 2015

Scoliosis is the real MVP. As someone who enjoys gaming as a whole, I totally accept and am actually really excited for Ryu's inclusion. Even if the character doesn't see much play from me, I'll totally enjoy the notion just because of what it means.

It also helps that I developed a strong appreciation for traditional fighting games between Brawl and Smash 4's release too.

MoveMan1 · Apr 19, 2015

But don't forget, "not just about nintendo" does not equal "all the 3rd party characters". Smash will still be Nintendo centric, and not some kind of vidyA mugen.

aldelaro5 · Apr 19, 2015

Scoliosis Jones said:
See, at least you see positive things coming from this.

As for a large portion of the fanbase, I simply do not know what to tell you guys. I really don't think you understand the amazing thing that can happen here.

Smash stopped being ONLY ABOUT NINTENDO since Brawl. Sonic is not a Nintendo character. He is a SEGA character. As much as he seems to be an "honorary Nintendo character" he isn't. He's from SEGA.

Mega Man is not a Nintendo character. He is a Capcom character that appeared on Nintendo consoles. Same thing as Sonic.

There was nothing wrong with these two getting in. I will be the first to admit that Snake was a strange and surprising addition. No, he wasn't one of the characters that would have been at the top of the list. But you know what? He's as much a part of Smash Bros. as any veteran. If you want him to stay out, great. You're just as bad as the people who want another character out and don't care that it disappoints his fans. Fine. Whatever.

There were literally people complaining about Pac-Man. The grand daddy of video games. "Pac-Man is boring!" " Pac-Man doesn't deserve it!" "Pac-Man sucks!". You could not possibly understand how upsetting it is for people to trash a gaming...no, historical character, yet praise gaming character #539018 as if they're the best thing since sliced bread. Excuse me, but it sounds rather entitled when I see somebody saying, "Ugh. Ryu? Man, this guy is so boring!" You know who I thought was a boring idea before getting revealed? Duck Hunt. Robin. Lucina. But now that I've played them, I love them! I never want them cut.

Smash IS NOT...I REPEAT IS NOT JUST ABOUT NINTENDO ANYMORE. The minute Snake was added, it became more than that.

Remember when people wanted Sonic because the idea of Mario vs. Sonic was a once in a lifetime thing that had never happened before? Yeah, me too. It was awesome.

Remember when people were excited for Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man? Yeah, me too. It's awesome. Remember when Pac-Man was assumed to be in, and the concept of 4 of the greatest characters in gaming became a reality? Yeah me too. It's a great thing. 3 of the biggest non-Nintendo stars in gaming are in the same game. It's unheard of. It's never happened before.

But now, the minute Sakurai thinks it would be cool to add another video gaming icon, it turns into "HE'S NOT NINTENDO ENOUGH". Hey, spoiler alert. They don't have to be Nintendo. They only have to have...ONE GAME. ONE GAME IS ALL IT TAKES. YOUR FAN STANDARDS DO NOT MATTER. SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE. IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

I tried to make a very informational post yesterday and the time since this leaked. But people ignore it and continue to trash characters that, frankly, deserve more respect than that. I've loved Nintendo since I was a kid. I played Smash since I was a small child. I was freaking prescribed video games to improve my hand-eye coordination, and I grew up strictly on Nintendo consoles. Then, I expanded my horizons. I played other series. I played games that aren't Nintendo. There are plenty of characters out there that have the clout to go toe to toe with Mario. Not just the minor ones who are only on Nintendo consoles.

This is already a massive post, but I'm not done. Too many people on here use points that can absolutely not be used as facts against a character being a good choice. Not only that, but what does Ryu do to Smash other than expand the universes and games involved? You don't have to play as Ryu. He's not competing with your precious #1 pick. Odds are, 6 choices were pretty much decided on. The ballot doesn't even close until OCTOBER. Why would they pick somebody from it already when it hasn't even been in effect for more than roughly a month?

I am a proud Smash fan. No other game gets me nearly as hyped. But some of the responses here make me sad. Smash fans put themselves in a Nintendo-centric world where nothing else matters. But in reality, that's not the case. Nintendo has poor 3rd party support, and Mr. Iwata has already said he considers the Wii U as a secondary console to Microsoft and Sony...they are not direct competitors. This is why getting for example, Solid Snake (who meets all requirements to be in Super Smash Bros.) isn't nearly as big of a deal as some make it out to be.

Listen, nobody has to have read this. You can think I'm a quack. I don't really care. But I'm very disappointed in the reactions people are having toward a gaming icon being in Smash Bros. Sakurai himself is a gamer. He doesn't constrict himself to only Nintendo games...so why should he be forced to restrict the guest characters he brings in? Sakurai loves his career, and he loves the industry he works in.

Frankly, I think we all should.

(Hey, thanks for reading. This is mainly venting that I've held in because I see this too often.)

I honestly wonder how the heck this belief became an issue?

Seriously, I don't even care about street fighter and it's quite obvious for me that ryu at least makes sense.....I just never expected him because of a certain statement Sakurai made (that and the fact that I didn't think he would be THAT ambitious on the repping, it's crazy).

I remember I was quite skeptical on pacman simply because I wondered how it could work, but was basically neutral. Megaman however, I think he was quite likely int he first place.

I just don't get why it doesn't seem obvious how this is more an addition than redundancy. Btw, I repeat this sentence so much lately, I think it's going to become a catchphrase.....

I really didn't expected much salts.....that gives me quite a good idea on how I should consider support sometime.....

mark welford · Apr 19, 2015

oni333 said:
It sounds like you are lusting for a lover not missing a video game character.

Thats why i quoted it

I regret nothing I said in that post because that is how I truly feel.

Scoliosis Jones said:
See, at least you see positive things coming from this.

As for a large portion of the fanbase, I simply do not know what to tell you guys. I really don't think you understand the amazing thing that can happen here.

Smash stopped being ONLY ABOUT NINTENDO since Brawl. Sonic is not a Nintendo character. He is a SEGA character. As much as he seems to be an "honorary Nintendo character" he isn't. He's from SEGA.

Mega Man is not a Nintendo character. He is a Capcom character that appeared on Nintendo consoles. Same thing as Sonic.

There was nothing wrong with these two getting in. I will be the first to admit that Snake was a strange and surprising addition. No, he wasn't one of the characters that would have been at the top of the list. But you know what? He's as much a part of Smash Bros. as any veteran. If you want him to stay out, great. You're just as bad as the people who want another character out and don't care that it disappoints his fans. Fine. Whatever.

There were literally people complaining about Pac-Man. The grand daddy of video games. "Pac-Man is boring!" " Pac-Man doesn't deserve it!" "Pac-Man sucks!". You could not possibly understand how upsetting it is for people to trash a gaming...no, historical character, yet praise gaming character #539018 as if they're the best thing since sliced bread. Excuse me, but it sounds rather entitled when I see somebody saying, "Ugh. Ryu? Man, this guy is so boring!" You know who I thought was a boring idea before getting revealed? Duck Hunt. Robin. Lucina. But now that I've played them, I love them! I never want them cut.

Smash IS NOT...I REPEAT IS NOT JUST ABOUT NINTENDO ANYMORE. The minute Snake was added, it became more than that.

Remember when people wanted Sonic because the idea of Mario vs. Sonic was a once in a lifetime thing that had never happened before? Yeah, me too. It was awesome.

Remember when people were excited for Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man? Yeah, me too. It's awesome. Remember when Pac-Man was assumed to be in, and the concept of 4 of the greatest characters in gaming became a reality? Yeah me too. It's a great thing. 3 of the biggest non-Nintendo stars in gaming are in the same game. It's unheard of. It's never happened before.

But now, the minute Sakurai thinks it would be cool to add another video gaming icon, it turns into "HE'S NOT NINTENDO ENOUGH". Hey, spoiler alert. They don't have to be Nintendo. They only have to have...ONE GAME. ONE GAME IS ALL IT TAKES. YOUR FAN STANDARDS DO NOT MATTER. SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE. IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

I tried to make a very informational post yesterday and the time since this leaked. But people ignore it and continue to trash characters that, frankly, deserve more respect than that. I've loved Nintendo since I was a kid. I played Smash since I was a small child. I was freaking prescribed video games to improve my hand-eye coordination, and I grew up strictly on Nintendo consoles. Then, I expanded my horizons. I played other series. I played games that aren't Nintendo. There are plenty of characters out there that have the clout to go toe to toe with Mario. Not just the minor ones who are only on Nintendo consoles.

This is already a massive post, but I'm not done. Too many people on here use points that can absolutely not be used as facts against a character being a good choice. Not only that, but what does Ryu do to Smash other than expand the universes and games involved? You don't have to play as Ryu. He's not competing with your precious #1 pick. Odds are, 6 choices were pretty much decided on. The ballot doesn't even close until OCTOBER. Why would they pick somebody from it already when it hasn't even been in effect for more than roughly a month?

I am a proud Smash fan. No other game gets me nearly as hyped. But some of the responses here make me sad. Smash fans put themselves in a Nintendo-centric world where nothing else matters. But in reality, that's not the case. Nintendo has poor 3rd party support, and Mr. Iwata has already said he considers the Wii U as a secondary console to Microsoft and Sony...they are not direct competitors. This is why getting for example, Solid Snake (who meets all requirements to be in Super Smash Bros.) isn't nearly as big of a deal as some make it out to be.

Listen, nobody has to have read this. You can think I'm a quack. I don't really care. But I'm very disappointed in the reactions people are having toward a gaming icon being in Smash Bros. Sakurai himself is a gamer. He doesn't constrict himself to only Nintendo games...so why should he be forced to restrict the guest characters he brings in? Sakurai loves his career, and he loves the industry he works in.

Frankly, I think we all should.

(Hey, thanks for reading. This is mainly venting that I've held in because I see this too often.)

I wholly agree with what you said and my post earlier says in it that smash is no more Nintendo history but encompasses gaming history itself and can become more of that if Ryu, Rayman and Snake would come later on in the future.

augustoflores · Apr 19, 2015

How did I even get here again? Damn it Scol!!

Ahem, whatever, might as well voice my opinion...

Ryu, I believe he has nothing to do with the poll, I believe he was already being planned due to some street fighter or capcom collaboration with Nintendo. But of a hype cross promotion after the reveal at the direct/digital event 2. It's business. It's also hype to "some" people so win - win for them and capcom.

As for reasons why people happen to be upset... It likely comes down to slots or sakurai's time. The idea that our time speculating smash has lasted this long and our most prolific suggestions or wants not being fulfilled... Then a character that was always overshadowed by Mega Man simply for being housed in the same company logo takes out another "spot" of "sakurai's development time"; dev time that could have been used on all those characters we as a community spent tireless day after week after year perfecting... As if we had any say...

Ryu isn't your vote, Roy isn't your vote (well, it's Croph's...), your vote comes AFTER the end of the ballot in November [citation needed].
Why you are upset is on you... Feel free to get red, I won't be around to hold your aspirin or whatever. Chill, vote, and expect our collective results next year...

Godzillathewonderdog · Apr 19, 2015

SmashChu said:
DLC for Mortal Kombat would be returing characters or completly new, never before seen characters, so a well known character like Freddy may do better than "New Brown Ninja," whos first every apperance is this game.

This isn't "brown ninja's" first appearance, infact the creator of the game is making him DLC because of "fans yelling loud enough" for him. His name is Tremor by the way.

bksbestbwoy · Apr 19, 2015

Tangent but where is everyone getting these cool Smash 4 support templates from?

Sid-cada · Apr 19, 2015

DJ3DS said:
Mario definitely takes a lot of cues from Ryu - especially in the early games. But they have both evolved enough in order to play distinctly differently.

Well, I've given some time what you've said some thought.

I appreciate what you've done, and while I'm still a bit skeptical about what he can do, I'm fairly certain that at least more open minded about what he can do. Honestly, I felt that every time I made a post questioning what make Ryu different from the others, most everyone else just ignored or just said "He's different!" without going into depth. This clears things up for me.

@

AEMehr Sorry, but a bit late and a dollar short. BTW, the both inputs things already exists plenty of times (as does a special telling the difference between a tilt and a smash), though as I've never played a Street Fighter you're going to have to be specific than just "better."

APC99 · Apr 19, 2015

I look at it this way.

Metal Gear Solid defined the stealth genre of gaming. The games have several prominent titles on Nintendo consoles, with GameCube and NES coming to mind. Solid Snake is considered a gaming legend. And so, he got into Brawl.

Sonic the Hedgehog made millions for SEGA, pulling them through the console wars and creating a world-famous gaming mascot that put emphasis on speed. While they fell from console markets, SEGA pushed Sonic onto other platforms, giving him prominent titles on the GameCube and Wii. Sonic, a gaming legend, made it into Brawl.

Mega Man was a simple new IP from Capcom pushed onto the NES. That game and it's successors became icons for the console, expanding into different worlds for different consoles, all while maintaining a consistent formula with enough changes to warrant a new game. The sheer nostalgia his games bring to fans keeps the character alive, even without more recent games. Mega Man was and still is a gaming legend. His return to Smash Bros. helped cement that further.

Pac-Man is the most iconic video game character in the world. He has had games for the majority of video game consoles, including mostly every Nintendo console (minus Virtual Boy and N64, I believe?). He's a gaming legend. He made it into SSB4.

Now, assuming that Ryu is coming to Smash Bros as DLC, look at where he comes from. Street Fighter is the best selling fighting game franchise of all time. The games inspired countless others, including Smash. Arguably one of the most iconic Street Fighter games was Street Fighter II's port to the SNES. Ryu is a gaming legend. That's why he's perfectly fine in my book.

This is why, unless the ballot pulls through for them or Sakurai truly wants them, we won't see characters like Geno, indies, Bayonetta or other characters from the existing third-party franchises yet. The third-parties we see are exceptions from the rest, gaming legends who are just as iconic as Mario, Link, Pikachu and Donkey Kong. Sure, with each console generation the cast of characters and games available to the public changes, but it stays consistent. While characters like Mario and Pac-Man stayed relevant, others rose and fell and became engraved into the hearts and minds of gamers across the world.

The question is, who's left?

Oracle_Summon · Apr 19, 2015

Scoliosis Jones said:
Smash stopped being ONLY ABOUT NINTENDO since Brawl. Sonic is not a Nintendo character. He is a SEGA character. As much as he seems to be an "honorary Nintendo character" he isn't. He's from SEGA.

Smash's main focus is still on Nintendo. Guest characters are special in a sense that they have History and a good number of games on Nintendo consoles.

Mega Man is not a Nintendo character. He is a Capcom character that appeared on Nintendo consoles. Same thing as Sonic.

There was nothing wrong with these two getting in. I will be the first to admit that Snake was a strange and surprising addition. No, he wasn't one of the characters that would have been at the top of the list. But you know what? He's as much a part of Smash Bros. as any veteran. If you want him to stay out, great. You're just as bad as the people who want another character out and don't care that it disappoints his fans. Fine. Whatever.

Usually, Scoliosis, fans of a character not yet in Smash are only fans of Smash Brothers once their character gets in. For example, some people do not bother to look at Smash Brothers until their character gets in.

Smash IS NOT...I REPEAT IS NOT JUST ABOUT NINTENDO ANYMORE. The minute Snake was added, it became more than that.

The focus is still on Nintendo. It is now more of what a Third Party character can bring to Smash and what warrants their inclusion over other Third Party ones.

Remember when people wanted Sonic because the idea of Mario vs. Sonic was a once in a lifetime thing that had never happened before? Yeah, me too. It was awesome.

This is why Sonic not being "a honorary Nintendo character" does not matter. It is the rivalry that matters, the one that took place during the 16-bit era.

Remember when people were excited for Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man? Yeah, me too. It's awesome. Remember when Pac-Man was assumed to be in, and the concept of 4 of the greatest characters in gaming became a reality? Yeah me too. It's a great thing. 3 of the biggest non-Nintendo stars in gaming are in the same game. It's unheard of. It's never happened before.

But now, the minute Sakurai thinks it would be cool to add another video gaming icon, it turns into "HE'S NOT NINTENDO ENOUGH". Hey, spoiler alert. They don't have to be Nintendo. They only have to have...ONE GAME. ONE GAME IS ALL IT TAKES. YOUR FAN STANDARDS DO NOT MATTER. SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE. IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

So if one game is all it takes then there is no arguing point against any other Third Party character including the Indie characters. With this point, all characters are eligible in Smash and have equal footing; therefore, making Iconic status irrelevant.

I tried to make a very informational post yesterday and the time since this leaked. But people ignore it and continue to trash characters that, frankly, deserve more respect than that. I've loved Nintendo since I was a kid. I played Smash since I was a small child. I was freaking prescribed video games to improve my hand-eye coordination, and I grew up strictly on Nintendo consoles. Then, I expanded my horizons. I played other series. I played games that aren't Nintendo. There are plenty of characters out there that have the clout to go toe to toe with Mario. Not just the minor ones who are only on Nintendo consoles.

They are minor, in a sense, but being on Smash Brothers gives them a chance to get even bigger, which is another reason why fans of Third Party characters want their specific character in. Getting in Smash also "renews" interest in a character because of the advertising that being in Smash brings and the fact they got in Smash. It is a hope that putting, lets say, Bomber Man will give his creators reason to reinvest into him. In this sense, Smash is a "revival" sort of series.

This is already a massive post, but I'm not done. Too many people on here use points that can absolutely not be used as facts against a character being a good choice. Not only that, but what does Ryu do to Smash other than expand the universes and games involved? You don't have to play as Ryu. He's not competing with your precious #1 pick. Odds are, 6 choices were pretty much decided on. The ballot doesn't even close until OCTOBER. Why would they pick somebody from it already when it hasn't even been in effect for more than roughly a month?

The fear is that Ryu opens the opportunity for Smash Brothers to be flooded with Third Party characters, that is not everyone's fear, but it is one of them. Mainly, it depends why Ryu is getting in Smash (according if the leaks are true) will determine how Third Party characters will be handled.

I am a proud Smash fan. No other game gets me nearly as hyped. But some of the responses here make me sad. Smash fans put themselves in a Nintendo-centric world where nothing else matters. But in reality, that's not the case. Nintendo has poor 3rd party support, and Mr. Iwata has already said he considers the Wii U as a secondary console to Microsoft and Sony...they are not direct competitors. This is why getting for example, Solid Snake (who meets all requirements to be in Super Smash Bros.) isn't nearly as big of a deal as some make it out to be.

Third Party support is bad since Nintendo is not bending over backwards for Third Party companies. Having your character in Smash Brothers should be a reward for sticking with Nintendo.
Edit: Third Party is also bad because Nintendo made the mistake of not advertising the Wii U enough at the time of its conception, changing its name so the average consumer can recognize it as a separate console and not a peripheral, and the fact that Nintendo did not release a solid Mario or Zelda title with the game when it was released. Mario games are eaten up and Nintendo should have had Super Mario 3D World at the ready before releasing it.

Listen, nobody has to have read this. You can think I'm a quack. I don't really care. But I'm very disappointed in the reactions people are having toward a gaming icon being in Smash Bros. Sakurai himself is a gamer. He doesn't constrict himself to only Nintendo games...so why should he be forced to restrict the guest characters he brings in? Sakurai loves his career, and he loves the industry he works in.

Having no restriction makes the quality of the Third Party characters even less, the more that get in the less it matters who gets in. Restrictions also prevent this game from becoming a "Nintendo vs." title video game, which is not what it is about and what should be used for another game.
Edit: Forgot to mention that Third Party characters take an expensive amount of licensing. Lawyer meetings and deals. While thinking about the Third Party characters, Nintendo takes time to question which Third Party character will reap them the most rewards while having the least amount of payments to obtain.

CrusherMania1592 · Apr 19, 2015

BluePikmin11 said:
It's still would be the action-packed Bayonetta people like about her though. Even if you took off the erotic behavior and skin problem completely, she would still have a load of flashy moves inspired from the games that would make her a fun character, she would not be a generic character to play as.

Just...just stop please. Every time someone has a decent and correct argument, you would normally end up dragging it further than it should.

Load of flashy moves isn't gonna change the argument. When you water a character down, they aren't they character they are supposed to become. With Tharja being removed for possibly of "racy outfit" and Smash was planned to be E 10+ instead of the T rating, it makes sense and Bayonetta would follow suit

Scoliosis Jones · Apr 19, 2015

Oracle_Summon said:
Smash's main focus is still on Nintendo. Guest characters are special in a sense that they have History and a good number of games on Nintendo consoles.

Usually, Scoliosis, fans of a character not yet in Smash are only fans of Smash Brothers once their character gets in. For example, some people do not bother to look at Smash Brothers until their character gets in.

The focus is still on Nintendo. It is now more of what a Third Party character can bring to Smash and what warrants their inclusion over other Third Party ones.

This is why Sonic not being "a honorary Nintendo character" does not matter. It is the rivalry that matters, the one that took place during the 16-bit era.

Remember when people were excited for Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man? Yeah, me too. It's awesome. Remember when Pac-Man was assumed to be in, and the concept of 4 of the greatest characters in gaming became a reality? Yeah me too. It's a great thing. 3 of the biggest non-Nintendo stars in gaming are in the same game. It's unheard of. It's never happened before.

So if one game is all it takes then there is no arguing point against any other Third Party character including the Indie characters. With this point, all characters are eligible in Smash and have equal footing; therefore, making Iconic status irrelevant.

They are minor, in a sense, but being on Smash Brothers gives them a chance to get even bigger, which is another reason why fans of Third Party characters want their specific character in. Getting in Smash also "renews" interest in a character because of the advertising that being in Smash brings and the fact they got in Smash. It is a hope that putting, lets say, Bomber Man will give his creators reason to reinvest into him. In this sense, Smash is a "revival" sort of series.

The fear is that Ryu opens the opportunity for Smash Brothers to be flooded with Third Party characters, that is not everyone's fear, but it is one of them. Mainly, it depends why Ryu is getting in Smash (according if the leaks are true) will determine how Third Party characters will be handled.

Third Party support is bad since Nintendo is not bending over backwards for Third Party companies. Having your character in Smash Brothers should be a reward for sticking with Nintendo.

Having no restriction makes the quality of the Third Party characters even less, the more that get in the less it matters who gets in. Restrictions also prevent this game from becoming a "Nintendo vs." title video game, which is not what it is about and what should be used for another game.

1st) It is not the responsibility for companies to stay with Nintendo if their product won't see success there. That's why a lot of companies don't put their product there. EA, Konami, Ubisoft, and several others don't make nearly as much money if they sell their games on other consoles. They don't owe Nintendo anything

2nd) 3rd parties get in because they are easily recognizable and come with a legacy. It is not Smash Bros. job to give a 3rd party a boost. The 3rd party character should be able to hold themselves above water.

3rd) One game is all it takes to make you eligible. The legacy a character has makes them far more desirable to add. That's what separates Ryu and Solid Snake from Shovel Knight. The impact these characters have on gaming are far greater than any indie can currently argue.

4th) Pretty sure all 3rd party characters brought something new, but were added because of how iconic they are within the gaming industry. It's not just a black or white thing. The standards for 3rd parties are far different from that of a 1st party character, so a 3rd party with "moveset potential" but hardly any legacy won't be considered when compared to one that does

5th)

Usually, Scoliosis, fans of a character not yet in Smash are only fans of Smash Brothers once their character gets in. For example, some people do not bother to look at Smash Brothers until their character gets in.

I highly doubt that. That's assuming that people only like ONE character that isn't within the current 50 we have. If you're that stingy, you're probably in the minority.

Ryu isn't just your average Joe. Sakurai maintained his standards with this pick. If we see more 3rd party characters, at least be sure that they will be quality characters.

A10theHero · Apr 19, 2015

Azure Warrior said:
Damn, the salt here is almost as much as how the Sonic fans reacted to the news. But hey, they always want their beloved franchise to get more representation because Sonic is supposedly on Mario's level of iconic legacy.

Wow, overgeneralize much?

I agree with @

Scoliosis Jones . Although Ryu is not Spyro, I think it'd be cool to have him join.

There's a lot of good that can come from it.

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