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Character Discussion Thread

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FalKoopa

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I find the Diddy-Dixie tag team to be a bad idea as it would throw away Diddy's perfectly good moveset. I'm against teaming up characters in general, by the way.
 

Kenith

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I find the Diddy-Dixie tag team to be a bad idea as it would throw away Diddy's perfectly good moveset. I'm against teaming up characters in general, by the way.
I agree with this. I don't like transforming/team characters in general, though. I do, however, like the concept of Chrom and Lucina as a team.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I found Diddy very boring in Brawl, I'd appreciate anything to spice him up a bit. Plus it'd remove K. Rool's competition.
 

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So when Chrom is his own character, people won't want him changed into a Chrom+Lucina duo because he has a "perfectly good" moveset. :troll:
The Diddy + Dixie duo should really spice up Diddy Kong.
 
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foolssigma

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So when Chrom is his own character, people won't want him changed into a Chrom+Lucina duo because he has a "perfectly good" moveset. :troll:
The Diddy + Dixie duo should really spice up Diddy Kong.
I'm a fan of the Diddy Dixie tag team. If Sakurai makes them play like in the DK Country games where one is just sort of in the background while the other is in front, it can be a unique style of play. However I agree it is somewhat similar to the Zelda transformation. Maybe it can be differentiated a little more somehow. Diddy's move set does not have to change safe for one move.
 
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UltimateWario

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Just switch ol' Ding Dong's banana to his Side-B, then make Down-B dat Kong Switch, if it's an absolute necessity.

The only DK newcomer I'm invested in is K. Rool, I don't really care what happens to Dixie, be she a semi-clone or a duo.
 
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Johnknight1

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@ Johnknight1 Johnknight1 , no offense to you, but could you tone down the hostility? I'm just trying to have a friendly (or at least civil) debate and your tone makes that difficult. Could you try talking like "Actually, I think that this is the case" instead of "Your point is null and you're being an idiot"? It makes you more likeable.
I'm not being hostile. I just talk in a very straight tone, matter of fact tone from my opinion, which I know isn't fact or necessarily better. I'm not angry or condescending (as you later said in your post), I'm just expressing my opinion. If I was rude or angry, I would be cursing you and/or whoever I was talking down.
Give this a read: I posted it in an edit. I'm not sure if you read it or not. Warning; spoilers for a couple games inside.
I've played those games, and again, Tiki is not a major character. The only playable characters we'll ever get from Fire Emblem are main (Lord) characters. Heck, the only assist trophy thus far we've gotten from Fire Emblem was a main (Lord) character.

While Tiki or the Black Knight might be exceptions, we have to consider popularity and visibility in this case. Again, just based on a popularity and visibility standpoint, after Ike, Chrom, Roy, and Lyn are the clear front runners. No one else is close.

On top of that, Smash has a habit (which can be good and/or bad) of excluding villain characters. That's why we haven't seen a villain from a minor series be playable yet.
I don't think we know that for sure either way, but I feel like he confirmed that he talks with all the developers about how their series is implemented. If he's not sure about how they would most like it represented, he asks.
Well Sakurai with Brawl asks Intelligent Games who to add, but they don't have final say on it (other than approving his final choice, which quite frankly they would be foolish to say "no", because he could just easily go add a character from another company).
[citation needed] on the most requested character thing. I have seen the most recent poll for us and he's nowhere near that popular to us. I don't know about Japanese popularity, though.
Most polls include only potential newcomers, thus Mewtwo and Roy are eliminated. But every poll I've seen that feature characters that weren't in Brawl have Mewtwo #1. After that, K. Rool, Ridley, Palutena, and Roy have been the only #2's I've ever seen, along with Mega Man before he was confirmed as a playable character.

Trust me, I've been looking at such polls since about 2009. I wouldn't make this stuff up just to "win" an argument. ;)

And if he wouldn't want to add Chrom due to lack of uniqueness, why would he bring back a melee clone that was cut?
For the same reason he added back Falco, Young Link (viva Toon Link), Ganondorf, and Luigi: popularity, ease of making,(re-adding characters is a lot less time consuming, expensive, and time consuming than adding newcomers), and easier to improve upon.

Falco and Luigi, while clearly much better built in Melee than Roy (and more unique), were reasonably redone in Brawl, especially Falco. Roy could easily face the same case. Look at all the new stab moves and attacks Roy has in Project M: All of those are taken from Fire Emblem 6, including his 2 new taunts.

In Fire Emblem 6 (Sword of the Seals/The Binding Blade/The Binding Blade that Seals the Swords because Roy has t3h ph1r3!), Roy mostly uses stab and lunge attacks that have minimal pre-attack lag, but quite a bit of post-attack lag. You could easily put him in and have him do that, and it would be minimally like Marth. And if you still doubt that Sakurai could make Roy unique, well, the Soulcalibur team is helping, and they know how to make sword wielding characters.

On top of that, you could give Roy what was probably his originally intended neutral B for Brawl (Ike's neutral B), and give Ike the axe neutral B Sakurai himself said he was originally going to have.

So while Roy was just a weaker Marth in Melee, there's enough inspiration from Roy's source game (not Melee) to make him unique. Also, give him m0r3 ph1r3!!! :rotfl:
And they're also one-shots that are likely never to appear outside of DLC again. And didn't you yourself say that only "recurring major characters" have a chance anyways? Why are you suggesting characters that only appeared in one game and which are in a group of three lords that are all debatably of equal importance.
The "reoccurring major characters" could apply to Fire Emblem, but I generally don't associate it with it. I mean that in the sense like how Luigi, Bowser, and Peach are reoccurring major characters, but are usually not playable. Or someone like Diddy, Dixie, Cranky, or K. Rool in the Donkey Kong franchise.

With Fire Emblem that rule I don't apply because most games are usually a self-contained story. It gets really hard to categorize it, and on top of that, most of the focus is usually on the central/main Lord or Lords. So yeah, it's just easier to avoid that with Fire Emblem I guess, otherwise I get into a big mess of a character nominee list! :laugh:

I also don't apply this to 3rd party franchises, sans maybe Sonic with having a playable Tails, because, well, that would be a giant mess!!! :rotfl:
(Also, I'm really not trying to be condescending with my posts or anything. You're genuinely giving me a headache and I just want a nice discussion. Please be less argumentative. Please?)
I think the problem with this is you are reading my opinions as if I am saying them like they are facts. I don't view them that way. I view it as me just expressing my opinions. And lastly, I'm not being argumentative, I'm being debative, even though that isn't a word. :smirk:
 
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Maybe Diddy was planned to be a tag-team with Dixie during Brawl's development, he has finally taken the spot alone.

And yet, it would not be a good idea to make Diddy paired up with Dixie for SSB4.

Why ?

Simply because things went that many people like Diddy like he is in Brawl, and seeing him paired-up with Dixie would bore them like crazy.

Diddy and Dixie as their own, and everyone (or at least most people) will be happy.
 

BKupa666

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I found Diddy very boring in Brawl, I'd appreciate anything to spice him up a bit. Plus it'd remove K. Rool's competition.
You're right to cross that last bit out, because it doesn't help K. Rool or any other character at all. Dixie solo would take up far less development time than Dixie plus duo mechanic that was technically challenging to the point where it had to be cut from the previous game, and now has to be included on a handheld system where similar mechanics are already proving difficult.
 

MasterOfKnees

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While I'd like for Diddy to pair up with Dixie just to make the character more interesting as previously mentioned I'm certainly not holding my breath for it. Diddy has already been solidified in Smash as a stand-alone character, I don't see them changing him drastically now, especially since Diddy and Dixie are entirely independant from each other in Tropical Freeze, it seems like they've moved away from being as dependant on each other as they were in Country 2. Would just be an odd move to take a mechanic from the SNES days when the characters (and arguably the franchise itself) have evolved past depending on a second character in the background.
 

MasterOfKnees

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You're right to cross that last bit out, because it doesn't help K. Rool or any other character at all. Dixie solo would take up far less development time than Dixie plus duo mechanic that was technically challenging to the point where it had to be cut from the previous game, and now has to be included on a handheld system where similar mechanics are already proving difficult.
It wasn't exactly serious, which is why I crossed it out, just sort of a poke at the K. Rool vs Dixie "rivalry" :p

I'm well aware of the amount of work it'd take to implement Dixie into Diddy's moveset, especially if the Wii couldn't handle it. Sakurai must have had one wacky idea if that console couldn't handle it.
 
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Kenith

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You're right to cross that last bit out, because it doesn't help K. Rool or any other character at all. Dixie solo would take up far less development time than Dixie plus duo mechanic that was technically challenging to the point where it had to be cut from the previous game, and now has to be included on a handheld system where similar mechanics are already proving difficult.
I'm quoting you because I want all of what you said to be brought to everyone's attention, because it's true.
 

Morbi

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You're right to cross that last bit out, because it doesn't help K. Rool or any other character at all. Dixie solo would take up far less development time than Dixie plus duo mechanic that was technically challenging to the point where it had to be cut from the previous game, and now has to be included on a handheld system where similar mechanics are already proving difficult.
This, I am surprised that no one mentioned it prior to your post. There is a reason it didn't work in Brawl, and things have not gotten much better. I don't want to be a pessimist or anything, but that is exactly how I feel about Ridley as well.
 

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I found Diddy very boring in Brawl
Diddy and Olimar are the only remotely interesting top tier character in Brawl to watch IMO and would easily transfer to a new Smash game without being stale.

I mean sure you could use some more DKC flare (the roll off running attack, a better fixed up neutral B and up B without the chance of failing), as well as some better taunts, but generally he's fine. There's a lot worse Brawl newcomers than Diddy Kong.

Meta Knight (no way he should keep his KO power), the Ice Climbers (grab battle!), Lucario (he looks like a low tier character), Dedede (he's gonna need a lot of changes), Wolf (he needs a less convoluted base), the Pokémon Trainer (everything about it in Brawl was bad), Lucas (grabbing issues), etc. are much worse off.
Hopefully he isn't in a tag-team with Dixie or anything.
We all collectively need to hope, want, and pray to any and all Gods (namely me!) :awesome: that this is a thing.

And anyone mad at me because they want Dixie, you should want Dixie separate. It would be best for both characters.
I agree with this. I don't like transforming/team characters in general, though. I do, however, like the concept of Chrom and Lucina as a team.
Chrom and Lucina is a good tag team idea (like Plusle & Minun and the Baby Mario Bros.) because they're essentially the same, but could be slightly different.
 
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Kenith

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inb4 "video deleted"
And post by mod saying "No videos please".
See, I'm getting the hang of this.
I'm expect a mod to post a video of Buzz Lightyear saying, "you're...mocking me aren't you?"

This, I am surprised that no one mentioned it prior to your post. There is a reason it didn't work in Brawl, and things have not gotten much better. I don't want to be a pessimist or anything, but that is exactly how I feel about Ridley as well.
Why Ridley? I don't understand why people say he would hard to develop, other than his moves.
 

UltimateWario

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Why Ridley? I don't understand why people say he would hard to develop, other than his moves.
Because everyone thinks that him not being shrunk in a spin-off before Smash like Bowser makes him impossible to shrink, despite the fact that Bowser is often quite larger than Ridley in his "canon" appearances. The reason no one says "BOWSER'S TOO BIG" is because he's been shrunk in spin-offs before. The same can't be said for Ridley, despite how easy it would be.

Literally the only thing anyone can hold against Ridley is his size, and does anyone here really think that Sakurai would let some phony-bologna reason like that stop him from adding a character? He's relevant, important, popular, has plenty of potential, and is visually distinct from the rest of the cast.
 
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MasterOfKnees

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Diddy and Olimar are the only remotely interesting top tier character in Brawl to watch IMO and would easily transfer to a new Smash game without being stale.
No doubt they're fun to watch tear **** apart, but they're two characters who I just can't stand playing myself. They're not really characters I want to invest a lot of time in, and if you don't do that with Olimar or Diddy they do become pretty boring to play since you don't learn how to properly use the bananas or learn how to use each Pikmin, and as a result I also suck horribly at them. But yeah, they're quite fun to watch, that's true.
 
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Morbi

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I'm expect a mod to post a video of Buzz Lightyear saying, "you're...mocking me aren't you?"



Why Ridley? I don't understand why people say he would hard to develop, other than his moves.
Ridley is hard to develop, that is essentially objective fact. I am no game-developer, nor would I ever want to be. However, many have cited certain notions being the cause in fact of his challenging model (mostly pertaining to his awkward body shape and strange appendages). Again, I just take Sakurai's word for it, if it isn't inherently difficult, that is irrelevant. Sakurai interprets it as a challenge prior to fallaciously asserting that Ridley "might have been pretty slow." That isn't something I want a developer to proclaim. Regardless, it is quite clear and overt that he was probably impossible on the Wii, the 3DS hardware is detrimental to a perceived progress. I am sure he could manage it, I just feel as if he would resemble Donkey Kong 2.0.
 
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Johnknight1

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inb4 "video deleted"
And post by mod saying "No videos please".
See, I'm getting the hang of this.
I would assume that videos related to actual gameplay or character topics would be an exception, right=???

I mean, for Roy discussion, I often post a video of Fire Emblem 6 gameplay showing his moves in that game, and how they could be used.
No offense, but I really think you guys are overestimating Anna's chances.
Anna doesn't have any realistic chance. There's hundreds of potential newcomers that are more likely.
 

Kenith

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Ridley is hard to develop, that is essentially objective fact. I am no game-developer, nor would I ever want to be. However, many have cited certain notions being the cause in fact of his challenging model (mostly pertaining to his awkward body shape and strange appendages). Again, I just take Sakurai's word for it, if it isn't inherently difficult, that is irrelevant. Sakurai interprets it as a challenge prior to fallaciously asserting that Ridley "might have been pretty slow." That isn't something I want a developer to proclaim. Regardless, it is quite clear and overt that he was probably impossible on the Wii, the 3DS hardware is detrimental to a perceived progress. I am sure he could manage it, I just feel as if he would resemble Donkey Kong 2.0.
I feel like the whole "awkward" body shape issue would be alleviated by using any design other than the Super Metroid one, since they generally lack that pesky buzzard neck, and often have a slightly more humanoid shape.
 

Johnknight1

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Why Ridley? I don't understand why people say he would hard to develop, other than his moves.
Ridley wouldn't be required to be hard to make and take a lot of time develop, but he could if they truly used him to be totally unique in every way.

I've mentioned before that if you want to get really crazy unique and wild with Ridley, Ridley's air and ground game could be reversed; on the ground he could only have tilts and the A-A-a combo, and in the air he could grab, do smash attacks, and heck, could glide above the stage. Still, you could definitely make him easier.

Regardless, it would be really hard to make a "bad" Ridley, unless whoever was in charge of Captain Falcon Rick Wheeler in Brawl is in charge of making Ridley.
I feel like the whole "awkward" body shape issue would be alleviated by using any design other than the Super Metroid one, since they generally lack that pesky buzzard neck, and often have a slightly more humanoid shape.
Honestly, the Melee and Brawl Ridley design is fine. The Other M design, sans a few issues, is fine.

People complaining about his skinny build apparently don't realize Rosalina exists. Seriously, she looks like a (now outdated) Barbie doll!!! :rotfl:
 

Morbi

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Anna doesn't have any realistic chance. There's hundreds of potential newcomers that are more likely.
That is humorous, entirely arbitrary, but humorous nonetheless. If I recall correctly, did people not say the same exact thing about Wii Fit Trainer? Actually, they didn't, as literally no one expected such an absurd addition. I am sure that many would have asserted that hundreds of potential newcomers were more likely than her. Maybe Villager, I believe he was in a similar situation... what about Rosalina? The only newcomer that we have that was obvious was Mega Man. Quite strange as he happens to be a 3rd party character, but yet he was more likely than hundreds of potential newcomers. In any event, we are only speculating. Anna does have a realistic chance, by definition. The notion that Chrom or "generic favorite Fire Emblem character" might also have a realistic chance is irrelevant. Anna is a practical character that has logic to support her inclusion. She isn't some no name secondary character from an obscure game not already represented in Smash.
 

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That is humorous, entirely arbitrary, but humorous nonetheless. If I recall correctly, did people not say the same exact thing about Wii Fit Trainer? Actually, they didn't, as literally no one expected such an absurd addition. I am sure that many would have asserted that hundreds of potential newcomers were more likely than her. Maybe Villager, I believe he was in a similar situation... what about Rosalina? The only newcomer that we have that was obvious was Mega Man. Quite strange as he happens to be a 3rd party character, but yet he was more likely than hundreds of potential newcomers. In any event, we are only speculating. Anna does have a realistic chance, by definition. The notion that Chrom or "generic favorite Fire Emblem character" might also have a realistic chance is irrelevant. Anna is a practical character that has logic to support her inclusion. She isn't some no name secondary character from an obscure game not already represented in Smash.
Apparently, BigAxle expected them, but no one believes him.
 
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Morbi

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Apparently, BigAxle expected them, but no one believes him.
Precisely the point, I don't necessarily believe BigAxle and I already asserted why that is (to him). I mean, it is certainly possible, but again, I question the man's sanity. Perhaps I should have inserted, "literally no rational human being utilizing logic as opposed to a sense of blind faith." That is a little too specific though.
 
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Morbi

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Do I think Anna will happen?
No.
Is she possible?
Yes.
Indeed, one could assert this for any character, but I was very specific. I do not believe that an obscure character from a no name series not already represented in Smash has a realistic chance. I do; however, believe that Anna has a realistic chance. Any character supported with logical reasoning is a realistic character in my opinion. Obviously we all interpret logic in a different way, it is a subjective system. If they only have one good reason, it probably isn't the most realistic character. If the character is like Mewtwo, with a dozen reasons to be included and nothing directly opposing him, I would say that is a rational choice with realistic chances.
 

Kenith

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Precisely the point, I don't necessarily believe BigAxle and I already asserted why that is (to him). I mean, it is certainly possible, but again, I question the man's sanity. Perhaps I should have inserted, "literally no rational human being utilizing logic as opposed to a sense of blind faith." That is a little too specific though.
He is quite strange, isn't he? And I think plenty of people are utilizing logic in speculation now, considering we have something to work with.
 

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If he was specifically looking for an FE newcomer, Anna is up there in choices.
The only competitors she has to face is Roy, Robin, Chrom (+Lucina), Lucina, and maybe Lyn. There aren't 100 characters that Anna has to face.
 

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I'd like the tag team of did die Dixie to act like ice climbers but not for every move and the one faded in the background can't be damaged (but u can kill them by throwing them offstage as diddy or Dixie with a special if used incorrectly)
 

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What if King K Rool was a DK clone?

I'm going to pretend I never imagined that
 

Gunla

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Precisely the point, I don't necessarily believe BigAxle and I already asserted why that is (to him). I mean, it is certainly possible, but again, I question the man's sanity. Perhaps I should have inserted, "literally no rational human being utilizing logic as opposed to a sense of blind faith." That is a little too specific though.
I can completely understand you not believing me. My logic is often very ludicrous and off-sense, but sometimes it nails a point down entirely.
He is quite strange, isn't he? And I think plenty of people are utilizing logic in speculation now, considering we have something to work with.
It's much harder to judge what Sakurai is doing at an early point. And I don't think Mother Brain being an AT means anything for Ridley, other than more representation for Metroid in general.
 
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