Character Discussion Thread

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I will strictly talking about the ones recently discovered

Here's the thing: Roy and Lucas aren't getting a new game. Roy's appearance in Awakening was also DLC but that included every other lordl Lucas is literally from a dead franchise

I was comparing my support to Roy to my support of Pichu. Two popular and easy to make clones. One moreso than the other, however.

I swear to god Mother 3 is getting an international release, and his series has clearly left a strong impact on us. Lucas is great! Roy, eh, easy clone people will buy, no need for customs either apparently, bam, easy money.

 

[MainJPW]

I will strictly talking about the ones recently discovered

Here's the thing: Roy and Lucas aren't getting a new game. Roy's appearance in Awakening was also DLC but that included every other lordl Lucas is literally from a dead franchise

Again who's to say Wolf hasn't already been worked on? The very fact that he's getting a new game and is easier to bring back than melee vets should mean we don't have to worry about him.

 

[Kenith]

Here's some things I can say for 100% certainty about Roy. You can pass it off as a leak if you want.
- He is absolutely not getting decloned and will be exactly as in Melee.
- He will not be sold separately at the same price as original DLC characters. That would be a ripoff.
- He will have his Melee voice.

If anyone can add to this list, I'd appreciate that.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

It's not like these are the only characters were getting, we're still more than likely getting Wolf as well as more characters after the fact.

We'll probably look back at this and realize it wasn't a big deal....

but the future is uncertain and every character we get that isn't the one we want we move closer to having to accept that they're not making it in.

I don't think it's unusual for fanbases to feel threatened.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Even if Roy is not getting a new appearance on the Fire Emblem series, he's still advertisement for his franchise.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the new Fire Emblem "If" (is how people are calling, isn't it?) will be coming this year in Japan, isn't true? .. Is just scheduled 2016 in the west;.. so he'll be Smash4 with some other purpose besides being a Melee throwback.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Roy, at most, would get Falco'd, by which I mean like adjusted damages knockbacks and such. That's the most we'd get if we're lucky.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Here's some things I can say for 100% certainty about Roy. You can pass it off as a leak if you want.
- He is absolutely not getting decloned and will be exactly as in Melee.
- He will not be sold separately at the same price as original DLC characters. That would be a ripoff.
- He will have his Melee voice.

If anyone can add to this list, I'd appreciate that.

I'm not convinced on that second point. They're already selling Majora's Mask for the same price as the full Mii outfits. (hat & costume)

Right now I don't have a reason to believe this will be any different.

 

[Kenith]

I'm not convinced on that second point. They're already selling Majora's Mask for the same price as the full Mii outfits. (hat & costume)
Right now I don't have a reason to believe this will be any different.

full costume / half costume
vs.
clone / completely original character...
I stand by what I said. Considering how much people despise clones, if Nintendo wants to sell Roy he will be really cheap...otherwise no amount of popularity in Japan will make him sell well.

 

[MainJPW]

I swear to god Mother 3 is getting an international release, and his series has clearly left a strong impact on us. Lucas is great! Roy, eh, easy clone people will buy, no need for customs either apparently, bam, easy money.

I sure hope so...

 

[Spazzy_D]

Something I don't get. Why Roy? A large part of the FE fanbase hates him, as in, the people who would buy FE. Most smash Roy fans probably haven't played FE. If he's a cookie-cutter clone then I don't think I'll buy him.
Ryu's latest appearances on Nintendo SNES SF2. Tatsunoko vs Capcom Wii. SSF4 and Project X Zone for the 3DS with a sequel coming soon. Why Ryu?

Ryu has had a ton of games on Nintendo hardware. You are missing at least 8 games between SF2 and Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

full costume / half costume
vs.
clone / completely original character...
I stand by what I said. Considering how much people despise clones, if Nintendo wants to sell Roy he will be really cheap...otherwise no amount of popularity in Japan will make him sell well.

I never said it was a perfect comparison. It just doesn't give me much confidence.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ryu has had a ton of games on Nintendo hardware. You are missing at least 8 games between SF2 and Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

This is getting ridiculous.

Shows how well SF does in Europe then

 

[Spazzy_D]

I'll quote myself;

Didn't notice this post originally. Good job, I was about to post this!

Compare the number of games Ryu has been in to Snake, who's had 5 games release on Nintendo hardware. Almost everyone of those games has been a port as well.

Nothing against Snake (I support his return,) but Ryu has tons more Nintendo cred than he does.

 

[Kenith]

I never said it was a perfect comparison. It just doesn't give me much confidence.

The prices for all Nintendo's has been pretty reasonable, or even generous in some cases. I would not worry about Roy.
Of course, he may be a bonus for getting a bundle or something.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Shows how well SF does in Europe then

Completely misread this, never mind, lol. Feel free to ignore this response.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Street Fighter II was the huge hit in the Arcades, but just got the real worldwide acknowledgment when it was ported to the SNES (one of the best selling home consoles at the time; but of course.. short after, the Super version was also ported to the SEGA Genesis; but this doesn't change the fact that the SNES port was a big deal [and sold more than any other version, if I recall]); ... And OF COURSE, Street Fighter II was in every SNES commercial and marketing.. I remember even of a gigantic artwork of Sagat and E. Honda in my SNES Box, lol.

What I'm saying is that Street Fighter got bigger by the SNES, and the SNES got bigger (with the addition of) with SFII. ... Without count recently the huge impact of SSFIV on 3DS, huh?

Ryu is a Nintendo related character just as Mega Man; who grew up with the SNES can agree with that steatment.

EDIT: Oooh, don't forget the sweet memories of the downgraded port of Street Fighter Alpha 2,.. Jesus, this game is delicious (I'm dead serious);

 

[Spazzy_D]

Ryu is one month older than Snake (both debuted in 1987,) making him several years older than Sonic. Including the Vs. titles, Ryu's games have sold more copies than Megaman's or Snake's.

Ryu hits all the check boxes for Smash third party inclusion.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Theory crafting time people! Feel free to shoot me down!


Let’s start with a few interesting bits.

- Portion of Gematsu leak before E3 2014 got Mii Fighter types correct, listed Lucas as DLC and that, “some on the team didn’t agree with it”

- If Roy/Ryu is true, all Melee vets save for Pichu return to the game

- Roy/Ryu proves 3rd Party DLC can happen (could also be dependent on a deal between companies)

Ok, so the data files are real. Roy and Ryu have data in Smash 3DS. This now means that, should Roy come back, all vets of Melee are in the game except for Pichu. Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Roy and Toon Link are all in the game.

It’s possible that Roy and Mewtwo were once again planned to be in the game, but somewhere down the line, DLC was planned. This alleviated the struggle of time constraints because these characters (Mewtwo and Roy) could be added later.

So if we have the Melee cuts essentially fixed, then it’s assumed the Brawl veteran cuts will be fixed as well. There’s no point to not bringing Wolf back at this point, so he’s a pretty safe bet. The only other Brawl vets are Ice Climbers, Squirtle, Ivysaur…and Snake.

If we refer back to Sakurai’s character criteria, he mentions roster balance by series. In other words, one series will not overwhelm the roster with their total. As it stands, Mario has 7 characters (six if we ignore Doc because he’s a clone), and Pokemon now has 6. Roster balance considered, I cannot see any of the Pokemon vets returning. If one of Squirtle or Ivysaur is added, the other will follow suit. If Ice Climbers were going to come back at all, I believe Sakurai and the team would have put in the work to make them work in Smash 3DS. I wouldn’t expect them.

So what I’m getting at, is that the only other vets that we’ll see come back are Wolf and Snake. We’ve now seen with Ryu that 3rd party characters can get in as DLC if the deal is right (and if the character is iconic enough). Snake has already proven his worth by being a Smash veteran (if he was a nobody, Sakurai wouldn’t have added him in the first place). So essentially, if Snake comes back with Wolf, the veteran characters will be complete.

Now here’s where the ballot comes in. If Wolf and Snake come back, we’ll have 6 DLC characters. Based on the discovery of the Ryu/Roy data, I’d argue that the first four characters could eventually be packaged as DLC in a Season Pass. Next, Wolf and Snake would start off the second pack. They would be the beginning of a 2nd pack of four, with the final two getting in based on the Smash Ballot.

If my theory is right, the Smash Bros DLC would look like this:

Pack 1: Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu

Pack 2: Wolf, Snake, Ballot Choices #1, Ballot Choice #2

The Ballot choices would still be under scrutiny of the standards Sakurai has, so it doesn’t necessarily mean that “X” character gets in because they were #1 on the poll. It goes back to things we’ve previously talked about: Popularity, potential, roster balance, etc…

But here’s the next kicker…remember that Job Posting at Namco for Smash Bros.? That plays a part here too. Obviously, the next Smash won’t come out for a while, as is the case with Smash Bros. as a series. Therefore, with the development we’ve already seen, it’s likely that those job postings were for the DLC characters and material. If this is the case, they’ve hired new workers (which could mean less pay) who are working under the same guys in charge while other developers move onto other projects.

If this is true, we’d be seeing Namco/Nintendo paying out less money for essentially the same product. Sakurai would oversee the characters, Namco would still work on balance, and it’d all be done for less money.

What could eventually come of this, is a re-released version of Smash with all the DLC included. This could be ported to the NX, or arguably as the new Smash Bros. game. It would only need balance patches, as the art style appears to work very well. No characters would be cut, and the team would only need to add some on. See where I’m going with this?

Call me crazy, but I think there’s some merit to this idea. I may look biased because of my Snake support, but Ryu getting in only strengthens the idea that the character has to be Iconic to gaming and arguably elsewhere to get into Smash (not to mention deals need to be made) when considering 3rd party characters. Add in the fact that Snake is a vet, and he’s got a good case to return.

Roy getting in makes it apparent that veterans have the advantage because of established Smash fanbases and their move sets are already done.

Should Ryu and Roy be legitimate (which at this point I feel there is little doubt) I believe they’d be revealed at some point over the summer (possibly E3). They’d be released sometime in summer or Early Fall, which is close to when the Smash Ballot closes. Once the Smash Ballot is closed, they will have their selections in front of them, and they can begin working on their choices. Wolf and Snake can headline this pack of four and the rest is up for debate.

This is something that I’ve deeply thought about since last night, so feel free to share your thoughts. This gets me hyped!

 

[Spazzy_D]

Theory crafting time people! Feel free to shoot me down!

Ok, so the data files are real. Roy and Ryu have data in Smash 3DS. This now means that, should Roy come back, all vets of Melee are in the game except for Pichu. Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Roy and Toon Link are all in the game.

(Seriously though, nice post.)

 

[CyberWolfBia]

The one thing that makes me sad about Ryu's inclusion is that we won't be able to change his voice to Japanese.. I hate his english voice. =P

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The one thing that makes me sad about Ryu's inclusion is that we won't be able to change his voice to Japanese.. I hate his english voice. =P

Mewtwo and Lucas have the same VA in both versions so who knows

 

[MainJPW]

Mewtwo and Lucas have the same VA in both versions so who knows

And Ness, Kirby & Marth.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Mewtwo and Lucas have the same VA in both versions so who knows

but Ryu has already established english voice since 2008;.. there's no way they will bring him with his Japanese voice; .. Will be probably the case of Sonic, having two different voice clips depending the region.

 

[MainJPW]

but Ryu has already established english voice since 2008;.. there's no way they will bring him with his Japanese voice; .. Will be probably the case of Sonic, having two different voice clips depending the region.

This wouldn't be a problem if they just brought back the option of switching languages.

 

[Starphoenix]

@ Scoliosis Jones : As negative as I have been about Snake, I will concede that the likelihood of him showing up again as DLC are probably pretty good now.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Again, I'd probably wait for a few 3rd party additions before we finalize that statement.

 

[PoopFeast420]

You wanted to talk Jibanyan thread plans here right?

 

[BluePikmin11]

You wanted to talk Jibanyan thread plans here right?

Yup, how should we divide the work? I could probably do some arguments against Jibanyan and some support points for you.
Does that sound good?

 

[Starphoenix]

Again, I'd probably wait for a few 3rd party additions before we finalize that statement.

You have to think about what the biggest argument has been against third party characters as DLC: too much effort for post-production content. Ryu immediately destroys that since he's bringing in a whole new universe to Smash. In the case of Solid Snake, he's already been in the game. Konami has already said they don't care, so the licensing is probably not as big a barrier as the technical, getting him to work with the new gameplay.

The only challenge I see is his presence might cause the game rating to be pushed up to a T. In which case the DLC would probably be rated separately by the ESRB.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And Ness, Kirby & Marth.

Notice how I listed the DLC characters

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You have to think about what the biggest argument has been against third party characters as DLC: too much effort for post-production content. Ryu immediately destroys that since he's bringing in a whole new universe to Smash. In the case of Solid Snake, he's already been in the game. Konami has already said they don't care, so the licensing is probably not as big a barrier as the technical, getting him to work with the new gameplay.

The only challenge I see is his presence might cause the game rating to be pushed up to a T. In which case the DLC would probably be rated separately by the ESRB.

DLC content doesn't get reviewed by the ESRB, or so I've been told.

 

[Kenith]

The only challenge I see is his presence might cause the game rating to be pushed up to a T. In which case the DLC would probably be rated separately by the ESRB.

Well, even if this was a problem (I don't think it was Snake's weaponry by itself that affected the rating, more likely the codecs) it could easily be fixed by giving Snake's weapons slight redesigns to look more, um, "fantasy".

 

[MainJPW]

Notice how I listed the DLC characters

Well, I'm not wrong

 

[PoopFeast420]

Yup, how should we divide the work? I could probably do some arguments against Jibanyan and some support points for you.
Does that sound good?

That sounds good. I'm going to Hawaii in May, so I'll be able to see if it's gotten even bigger compared to when I was there last year, as I actually saw some merchandise for sale from it/got a rather large amount of streetpasses from people who played it.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Be sure to research. ^^ That will certainly help out on how big the Yokai Watch franchise is.
Are you making the thread now?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Be sure to research. ^^ That will certainly help out on how big the Yokai Watch franchise is.
Are you making the thread now?

Could you guys take this to a PM? It's not really relevant to discussion in this thread.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Alright then..
Sorry about that.

 

[Kalimdori]

Something I don't get. Why Roy? A large part of the FE fanbase hates him, as in, the people who would buy FE. Most smash Roy fans probably haven't played FE. If he's a cookie-cutter clone then I don't think I'll buy him.
Ryu's latest appearances on Nintendo SNES SF2. Tatsunoko vs Capcom Wii. SSF4 and Project X Zone for the 3DS with a sequel coming soon. Why Ryu?

Melee sold more then the entire Fire Emblem series combined. Doesn't matter if FE fans don't like them, they aren't the target audience here

And Ryu is Ryu. I'd argue he beats out Snake and Megaman in terms of iconism.

Here's some things I can say for 100% certainty about Roy. You can pass it off as a leak if you want.
- He is absolutely not getting decloned and will be exactly as in Melee.
- He will not be sold separately at the same price as original DLC characters. That would be a ripoff.
- He will have his Melee voice.

If anyone can add to this list, I'd appreciate that.

I can add to this list!

-Claiming 100% on anything in regards to Smash speculation is silly

 

[Deleted member]

Ryu would be awesome if he had a meter system to work with.
Could use it towards EX variations of his specials and for a super or two. That seems super neat in a game like Smash to me.

It'd be nice if Roy was altered in the same vain as Ganondorf and Falco have been over the years, but I'm somewhat sorta doubting it. At least we'll have overhead Flare Blade eh??

Roy was planned to return in Brawl and had there been DLC, he surely would have been in that game. Several clones from Melee got altered like Falco and Luigi as well so it is possible Roy was lugified as well. If so, given how easy it is to port Brawl data in comparison to Melee, Roy might get his planned move set from Brawl, which might contain some decloning.

Man, Taizo, the protagonist of DigDug, had a hilariously "hardcore" redesign in Namco X Capcom

Still better than Bomberman's redesign in Act Zero. What an atrocity.

@ Scoliosis Jones : Interesting theory there, I can see the logic behind it. Although I am of the opinion that Wolf is being worked on since around the time Lucas got started and will be held back for Star Fox Wii U.

 

[MoveMan1]

Will everyone shut up about Ryu's iconism? I swear, everytime anyone talks about him, all I hear is "icon icon icon icon icon icon".

And be honest, if Ryu doesn't show up for DLC after this, will anyone be dispointed?