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Character Discussion Thread

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Whit

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Don't really think they would be a semi-clone, because we don't really have duo sword characters yet. . :
The potential moves such as Dual Guard (Which would cancel any attack unlike counter) and Dual Strike (In which the other does the same move, but obviously done differently), relying comboing fury (Lucina) or offense (Chrom) gives alot of options for them to win the battle. Or perhaps we could have the relationship mechanic involved too, when you get C, B, and A support you gain better stats. O.o
Speculating moves is a shot in the dark and yes I know I'm being a hypocrite. I really think it would have to be simpler than that though.

Megaman = projectiles
Rosalina & Luma = separate
Little Mac = super armor
Chrom & Lucina = ?

Lip = stage mod (wishful thinking)
 

TheLastJinjo

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Why would Samurai Goroh be a clone if he has a sword and uses it as an AT?
First of all, If Sakurai thinks you SHOULD share moves with another character then you're unique abilities are pretty irrelevant. I mean they are both F-Zero racers who are rivals, he can easily replicate Captain Falcon's abilities, and he shares similarities with him. Him not being a semi-clone doesn't really make sense. In reality he does all the same things that Captain Falcon does in the game. Be a buff guy that races in an F-Zero machine similar to Falcon's. They play practically the same role. I mean people aren't just made into semi-clones because there is literally no other option. Otherwise Toon Link and Lucas would be fully unique characters. Lucas even used a different PSI ability, but it was STILL a clone of PK Flash. So obviously Sakurai acknowledged the idea to give him whatever PSI abilities he wanted regardless of canon, but he didn't because it would only make sense for Lucas to share moves with Ness. Same with Toon Link, he has several abilities, but Sakurai stated he wants both Links to be the same. So it's fair to assume that's how he usually sees characters like Mario & Luigi, Fox & Falco, or Captain Falcon and Samurai Goroh.

Also that was an AT. He had a reason to implement his sword and be different from Captain Falcon. I wouldn't compare AT's to playable characters. It's not like Sakurai didn't give Toon Link a Skull Hammer because he didn't know it existed. So saying he knows of Samurai Goroh's sword and implemented it for a completely different role doesn't really tell me he'll do the same as a playable character.

Not to mention Ganondorf is a semi-clone of Captain Falcon who doesn't use his sword. Making Goroh (who is an F-Zero pilot and rival to Captain Falcon with more similarities) the opposite of that???


It's existence is already acknowledged by Sakurai. I'm sure he would use it.

"What are you putting it away for? Use it! People tend to make fun of Ganondorf for this."
-The Grand Troll Masahiro Sakurai


I'm sure he would.:troll:





That would look REALLY weird...
Doesn't look weird to me:
 
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D

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Personal taste I suppose....
Bear in mind, we're talking about someone's who's all about reckless hack n' slash. Even if it doesn't fit the katana, it would definitely fit Goroh.
Though, perhaps it would fit more anyway with a visual. I'll get right on it.

EDIT: I guess I'll use Falcon's own move as an example.


Imagine this, but instead of swinging a fist, he does a power slash.

As for the finisher:


Upwards slash.


Downwards slash.


....This is of course going with the idea that Goroh is literally copying Falcon, as opposed to pulling a Wolf.
The Goroh version of Raptor Boost (which I've dubbed "Samurai Lunge") can be visually different while working similary.
 
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Whit

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I disagree. I believe that considering Sakurai has stated many fan-conscious things, that he would consider every plausible candidate for a newcomer and marks them as he goes.
Ya, I guess you're right in that he does look at fan demand. However, unless he thinks they can offer something new to gameplay I doubt he will put them in. He has stated he is focusing on gameplay this time around and I take that to mean he's going for unique fighting styles over popularity when picking characters.

Unique and diverse fighting styles = more fun game
Fan satisfaction based roster = semi clones = not as fun game
 
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FlareHabanero

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Megaman = projectiles
Rosalina & Luma = separate
Little Mac = super armor
Chrom & Lucina = ?
I did once suggest a style inspired by the tag mechanics used in the Marvel vs. Capcom games.

Though, I'm not exactly keen on that because of balance concerns.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Unique and diverse fighting styles = more fun game
Fan satisfaction based roster = semi clones = not as fun game
That's not a reason anymore than it was the last 2 times. And focusing more is not the same as focusing SOLELY. Considering we are facing constraints and Sakurai said he had to "reduce" characters, it's only logical and beneficial to add semi-clones which take less time and are in a way "reduced" characters.

Not trying to rain on you, I just don't want people to get their hopes up like they did last time when they thought there wouldn't be semi-clones.
 
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Curious Villager

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In a sense, I do agree with some of the points SaturnGamer makes. But let me fully understand this. You guys aren't claiming that we won't be seeing any clones/semi-clones at all right?
 
D

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I'd rage, then laugh uncontrollably, then go back to rage.
Pretty fricking random, even compared to Wii Fit Trainer.
 

Kenith

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Ya, I guess you're right in that he does look at fan demand. However, unless he thinks they can offer something new to gameplay I doubt he will put them in. He has stated he is focusing on gameplay this time around and I take that to mean he's going for unique fighting styles over popularity when picking characters.

Unique and diverse fighting styles = more fun game
Fan satisfaction based roster = semi clones = not as fun game
While I agree with this to an extent, I never have had a problem with a couple clones, a least where it's applicable. For example, making Roy a Marth clone is reasonable, they have the same roles in their games. However, making Rosalina a Peach clone would make no sense, as Rosalina has many unique characteristics of her own.
But I like clones because they allow people who like a fighting style to use a character who plays the same with different characteristics.
 

?????????????

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I just want to know... what would everyone's reaction be if Chef Kawasaki was in Smash?
Would prefer Whispy Woods.


On the thing with semi-clones...I do just want to say that, just because two characters are from the same franchise and play a similar role, it does not mean they will inevitably be a semi-clone. Marth and Ike are already examples of this; they share Counter, and that's it.

Is it possible? Of course. If Goroh became playable, I'm not sure what else they'd use besides Fire Stingray as the Final Smash. But it doesn't mean he has to or would be a blatant clone of Captain Falcon; they very well could share a few moves.

Because, you know. We really need more people who copy Captain Falcon's style. At least Goroh makes more sense than Ganon.
 
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Whit

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That's not a reason anymore than it was the last 2 times. And focusing more is not the same as focusing SOLELY. Considering we are facing constraints and Sakurai said he had to "reduce" characters, it's only logical and beneficial to add semi-clones which take less time and are in a way "reduced" characters.

Not trying to rain on you, I just don't want people to get their hopes up like they did last time when they thought there wouldn't be semi-clones.
I understand. I do tend to be a bit of a broken record sometimes, sorry about that.

It is true that semi clones are easier to make and I suppose because they are clones they don't upset the overall balance too much. I would find it a bit hard to believe though that if the roster is to be reduced this time around then adding new semi clones would be really odd and kind of a slap in the face. If it's a fight for roster space, I think unique characters would out prioritize semi clones any day in order to achieve maximum gameplay diversity.
 

Kenith

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AAAAAHHH! What was that?!
I understand. I do tend to be a bit of a broken record sometimes, sorry about that.

It is true that semi clones are easier to make and I suppose because they are clones they don't upset the overall balance too much. I would find it a bit hard to believe though that if the roster is to be reduced this time around then adding new semi clones would be really odd and kind of a slap in the face. If it's a fight for roster space, I think unique characters would out prioritize semi clones any day in order to achieve maximum gameplay diversity.
I agree with this sentiment. Honestly, I don't necessarily agree that we are losing characters outright.
 

TheLastJinjo

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So I do my Fire Emblem research. I try to know my stuff before I make my choices. But, I can tell you I'm not a Fire Emblem expert. It recently came to my attention that in the game before Awakening there was an Avatar system. But, the character and his role shared nor relation to Robin.

At this point I was embarrassed. This clearly debunked my argument that "Awakening's avatar system will be in future Fire Emblem games."

But, then I realized there WAS another Tactician...in Rekka No Ken...but, not as a playable character.

Sooo...does this add to Robin's (Tactician's) importance? Or will Sakurai overlook this?
 

Curious Villager

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I understand. I do tend to be a bit of a broken record sometimes, sorry about that.

It is true that semi clones are easier to make and I suppose because they are clones they don't upset the overall balance too much. I would find it a bit hard to believe though that if the roster is to be reduced this time around then adding new semi clones would be really odd and kind of a slap in the face. If it's a fight for roster space, I think unique characters would out prioritize semi clones any day in order to achieve maximum gameplay diversity.
That's how they are usually implemented. The more unique characters are a higher priority and the semi clones are saved for when there is still a bit of time to include a few more semi-clone characters but not enough for one whole unique character. At least if Melee and Brawl's priorities are anything to go by. I'd say Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS aren't any different..... Unless said character has a game to promote I guess... :toonlink:
 

?????????????

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So I do my Fire Emblem research. I try to know my stuff before I make my choices. But, I can tell you I'm not a Fire Emblem expert. It recently came to my attention that in the game before Awakening there was an Avatar system. But, the character and his role shared nor relation to Robin.

At this point I was embarrassed. This clearly debunked my argument that "Awakening's avatar system will be in future Fire Emblem games."

But, then I realized there WAS another Tactician...in Rekka No Ken...but, not as a playable character.

Sooo...does this add to Robin's (Tactician's) importance? Or will Sakurai overlook this?
I think it's significant enough.
 

TheLastJinjo

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I understand. I do tend to be a bit of a broken record sometimes, sorry about that.

It is true that semi clones are easier to make and I suppose because they are clones they don't upset the overall balance too much. I would find it a bit hard to believe though that if the roster is to be reduced this time around then adding new semi clones would be really odd and kind of a slap in the face. If it's a fight for roster space, I think unique characters would out prioritize semi clones any day in order to achieve maximum gameplay diversity.
Well, it really depends. If you're just an important and popular character like Dixie Kong then being a semi-clone of Diddy Kong probably doesn't really concern Sakurai as long as she brings SOMETHING different. But, if you're a really popular character like Toon Zelda, but you don't bring anything new, then you're chances of being prioritized are certainly lowered.

I can tell you now that while Sakurai acknowledges the bad reception of semi-clones/clones, he doesn't give a ****. If he wants Toon Link he's gonna add Toon Link. Bad reception of characters sharing even a minor amount of move sets will always exist, but it won't stop Sakurai from adding characters like Wolf and Lucas. The whole "unique characters out prioritizing semi-clones" is a respectable opinion, but if you want to be realistic and not get disappointed, then I should probably inform you that this is not how Sakurai sees it. At least not to the extent that you suggest.

I think a lot of people get bias about semi-clones and it interferes with their expectations.
 
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