Character Discussion Thread

[Depressed Gengar]

Quick question: does any one know if there's a Black Mage thread?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think anybody who supports not caring who the 3rd Fire Emblem character is is therefore supporting the attempted inclusion of Roy. Because if Sakurai truly doesn't care who the other Fire Emblem character is, he's probably going to slap in that clone veteran he has lying around.

Oy vey...

I never implied a third character.

Just Marth and Ike.

JUST.
MARTH.
AND.
IKE.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm not going to get into an argument with you, but given Sakurai's unique character choices this time around I have trouble imagining him adding any more semi-clones.

Given Sakurai's unique character choices this time around, I can't imagine him adding anymore clones.

 

[Knight Dude]

View attachment 9146

Current Roster. Thoughts?

(If I added 5 Characters, they would be Dixie Kong, Roy, Impa, Pac Man, and Mii)

It's good, I guess. You added more than one retro character. And you even threw in Shulk and Isaac. To be honest, the feedback you're going to get here is simply based on what we like. Not entirely on what's likely. But I suppose it would be hard to say much about a game we don't know about.

 

[False Sense]

While Rosalina's multiple appearances lend to her likelihood, the Mario series gets several releases every year, including countless spin-offs. Zelda gets a release every couple years and no spin-offs. And Mario characters are almost always recycled, whereas Zelda characters aren't. So of course they were going to use Rosalina again, Super Mario Galaxy was a huge deal. As was Twilight Princess, at least for the West.

Fair arguments. Though I might say that, while the Zelda series does tend to have characters that vary between games, there IS a select group of characters that make more consistent appearances, such as Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Impa, Toon Link, Tetra, Tingle, and Vaati. Because of the existence of characters like these, I find it somewhat unlikely that one shot characters like Midna or Ghirahim would make it in over more consistent characters like the ones I've mentioned.

 

[NickerBocker]

I came to terms with not caring about a new FE rep a long time ago. The Lord with a sword thing is getting rather redundant. Yes, I know Chrom can be unique, look at Ike, but compared to someone like Robin or even Anna, he doesnt have as much potential to be unique.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's good, I guess. You added more than one retro character. And you even threw in Shulk and Isaac. To be honest, the feedback you're going to get here is simply based on what we like. Not entirely on what's likely. But I suppose it would be hard to say much about a game we don't know about.

Were eventually going to get the safe predictions wrong if people are here to please people and not to actually be risky at a certain level.

 

[Kenith]

It's good, I guess. You added more than one retro character. And you even threw in Shulk and Isaac. To be honest, the feedback you're going to get here is simply based on what we like. Not entirely on what's likely. But I suppose it would be hard to say much about a game we don't know about.

Sums up my entire experience here...

Given Sakurai's unique character choices this time around, I can't imagine him adding anymore clones.

Why does everyone hate clones? Full clones I can understand, but what do semi-clones take away from the experience?

Fair arguments. Though I might say that, while the Zelda series does tend to have characters that vary between games, there IS a select group of characters that make more consistent appearances, such as Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Impa, Toon Link, Tetra, Tingle, and Vaati. Because of the existence of characters like these, I find it somewhat unlikely that one shot characters like Midna or Ghirahim would make it in over more consistent characters like the ones I've mentioned.

I would not disagree with this. Though, and I'm not referring to these characters specifically, but sometimes a recurring, but relatively unimportant, character can be trumped by a character who was really important for a very short time. Rosalina, again, beat out Bowser Jr., of all characters.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Were eventually going to get the safe predictions wrong if people are here to please people and not to actually be risky at a certain level.

So I SHOULD put Chef Kawasaki on my roster?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

@Louie G. : I'd really like to stress what is in the red text.

Roy having a sword with fire effects does not make him unique at all. Falco nor Ganondorf are unique, and Roy isn't either.

I think you're exaggerating there.

No offense Saturn, but your semi-clone reasoning is kinda bull crap.

The basis that 9 characters all that fit the same description as Chrom being semi-clones is bull crap reasoning to assume he will be a semi-clone just like them? If you say so.

Just because a character looks like another doesn't make them an automatic semi-clone, we've been over this many times.

What's funny is that we have. But, it is YOU who don't understand it. You don't want to accept that it works like this so you blatantly lie about what I said. I've told you a million times why characters become semi-clones and you KNOW that I've never said it was just because they look the same. It's more complicated than that. Don't take one quote out of context and use it against people. I said more than that, and you should know it by now.

I can agree with what you said about FE being a big series and all, but Awakening did in fact save the series. The folks at IS were going to cancel the franchise if Awakening didn't sell well, and look how it ended up. So yes, Awakening saved the series, no matter how you put it.

And so this ultimately makes Awakening the most significant game in the franchises entire history and it's characters the new mascots forever???

This trivial "Did You Know" fact is ultimately a reason to a character? I think the term "A character is importance to his franchise" is used loosely. Being important to your franchise from the perspective of Super Smash Brothers is usually being a popular and recurring character with an important role in a lot of the series. Not just so happening to be the main character of the one installment that got popular (like many other installments) resulting in the franchise claiming to be continued. Why don't you just add the game cartridge as a character then.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So I SHOULD put Chef Kawasaki on my roster?

No it doesn't automatically mean we can pick minor characters of a franchise on a prediction roster. You know that.

 

[NickerBocker]

Given Sakurai's unique character choices this time around, I can't imagine him adding anymore clones.

Ya, because with a roster as large as the one were expecting, we really need to pad it with additions like Dr Mario and the like.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Saturn is still spouting the "clones are inevitable" crap? I don't think he realizes that the reason we got clones in Melee was because the roster was small, and Sakurai wanted to make it bigger. We have the opposite problem this time, the roster is already large enough and he has to squeeze in more worthwhile characters.

Is that really so hard to understand?

 

[Knight Dude]

Given Sakurai's unique character choices this time around, I can't imagine him adding anymore clones.

Clones are less likely to happen this time around. Since, most of the important/major characters from each series are already in. And those that were already clones are bound to be made more unique than before. But even if that's the case, I would still say not to get you're hopes up. For all we know the devs could have added at least one new clone character without us knowing yet.

I don't know. I tend to try and keep my expectations low. So that way, when something really cool happens, I'll be even more surprised.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So I SHOULD put Chef Kawasaki on my roster?

Making characters sick with bad cooking is pretty unique, so go for it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It would also show Awakening's accomplishment as being the savior FE game, so that's enough merits for him to be in.

You need a basis to say that's enough merit for him to be in. You're own bias views on what should warrant a character is not enough basis.

 

[False Sense]

I would not disagree with this. Though, and I'm not referring to these characters specifically, but sometimes a recurring, but relatively unimportant, character can be trumped by a character who was really important for a very short time. Rosalina, again, beat out Bowser Jr., of all characters.

I can see what you're saying here. Rosalina was rather surprising considering her relatively small role in the series as a whole. She did at least become more recurring afterwords and became one of five playable characters in 3D World, along with Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad, so I guess that says something about her.

Though back to Midna. As I said, you have a point with Rosalina being less important overall than Bowser Jr., and how characters who were briefly very important could possibly be added over more recurring characters. However, I would argue that in the case of the Zelda series, Midna has competition in characters who have been very important in one game, like Tetra/Toon Zelda, and then went on to become recurring characters. Midna, on the other hand, has only been very important once, and then never appeared again (real shame, she wasn't a bad companion). So Midna has to deal with characters that have rivaled her importance in their respective games, but then became important in other games, so Midna is technically outclassed in terms of importance to the series as a whole.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Making characters sick with bad cooking is pretty unique, so go for it.

Could this make Kawasaki the new Villager? I mean, it could kill people...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Isn't Awakening's success a fact and not bias? >.>
His potential uniqueness to be paired with Lucina with the pair system mechanics, I'm pretty sure that's enough merits for him to get in a playable form.

 

[Tepig2000]

Quick question: does any one know if there's a Black Mage thread?

Yes, I recall seeing one long ago.

 

[Whit]

Whoa, lot's of arguing in this discussion. I was just wondering if we could put aside a character's franchise, popularity, likelihood, etc. and just look at what they could bring in terms of gameplay to smash bros. Given that every new character so far has been based around a specific aspect of gameplay or introduced a new one, any future newcomers will likely have to offer something very unique in order to be considered for the roster. I would bet money that this is what Sakurai is thinking when picking characters, so I doubt that there will be any semiclone characters this time around. When you look at a character's chances based around this kind of thinking, who do you think has a chance and what would make them special?

Personnally I'm looking at Lip and her puzzle background. She could drop puzzle blocks that could serve as platforms/obstacles that disappear over time or on command doing damage if they land on you. Think of it like the Heron assist trophy in brawl minus the spinning. I think it's this sort of unique gameplay that will earn a character a spot on the roster, NOT their popularity. But that's just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[JamesDNaux]

So guys, so far the score is 4-Vertical 2-Horizontal for my roster.
Here they are again for anyone that missed them.
[collapse=]

[/collapse]
At this rate, I'll probably stick with the vertical alignment.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Yes, I recall seeing one long ago.

Yeah, I found it a bit ago. I'm trying to see if I can take it over.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Clones are less likely to happen this time around. Since, most of the important/major characters from each series are already in. And those that were already clones are bound to be made more unique than before. But even if that's the case, I would still say not to get you're hopes up. For all we know the devs could have added at least one new clone character without us knowing yetI don't know. I tend to try and keep my expectations low. So that way, when something really cool happens, I'll be even more surprised.

There are actually 4 clones which have a chance of getting in. First of course is Dixie Kong, the other is Samurai Goroh, then there is also Toon Zelda (who I only see getting in if Sakurai sees it necessary for her to be alongside Tetra) and then Roy.

Idiots however are claiming that 4 unique characters = **** semi-clones. They seem to think that Dixie and Chrom will not become semi-clones because there are 4 really unique characters in the game. Despite that in Melee there were 5 really unique characters, and in Brawl there was Snake, Zero Suit Samus, Pikmin & Olimar, Pokemon Trainer, and others. So this argument is completely futile and meaningless.

 

[FlareHabanero]

This reminds me of me arguing that Lucas and Wolf are more unique then people say, and question why people abuse the hell out of double standards.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why would Samurai Goroh be a clone if he has a sword and uses it as an AT?

It's existence is already acknowledged by Sakurai. I'm sure he would use it.

 

[Kenith]

I can see what you're saying here. Rosalina was rather surprising considering her relatively small role in the series as a whole. She did at least become more recurring afterwords and became one of five playable characters in 3D World, along with Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad, so I guess that says something about her.

Though back to Midna. As I said, you have a point with Rosalina being less important overall than Bowser Jr., and how characters who were briefly very important could possibly be added over more recurring characters. However, I would argue that in the case of the Zelda series, Midna has competition in characters who have been very important in one game, like Tetra/Toon Zelda, and then went on to become recurring characters. Midna, on the other hand, has only been very important once, and then never appeared again (real shame, she wasn't a bad companion). So Midna has to deal with characters that have rivaled her importance in their respective games, but then became important in other games, so Midna is technically outclassed in terms of importance to the series as a whole.

Toon Zelda and Tetra, more prominent overall? Yes. Though the Wind Waker-derived subseries of Zelda has a similar aspect to Mario, in that it's light-hearted nature allows story-driven characters more appearances (Vaati, Tetra). But in the grand scheme of things, that's unimportant.

However, what is important is that a new Zelda character also maintains uniqueness. While Tetra could possess this, T. Zelda most certainly would not.

Popularity is also a factor in inclusion. While Tingle may be popular overseas, in the US he is almost universally reviled. Overall, assuming he is overwhelming popular in the East, that makes in 50/50.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Whoa, lot's of arguing in this discussion. I was just wondering if we could put aside a character's franchise, popularity, likelihood, etc. and just look at what they could bring in terms of gameplay to smash bros. Given that every new character so far has been based around a specific aspect of gameplay or introduced a new one, any future newcomers will likely have to offer something very unique in order to be considered for the roster. I would bet money that this is what Sakurai is thinking when picking characters, so I doubt that there will be any semiclone characters this time around. When you look at a character's chances based around this kind of thinking, who do you think has a chance and what would make them special?

Personnally I'm looking at Lip and her puzzle background. She could drop puzzle blocks that could serve as platforms/obstacles that disappear over time or on command doing damage if they land on you. Think of it like the Heron assist trophy in brawl minus the spinning. I think it's this sort of unique gameplay that will earn a character a spot on the roster, NOT their popularity. But that's just my thoughts on the matter.

Uniqueness is definitely top priority, but there are maybe a few factors that might prevent the character from being on the roster.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Why would Samurai Goroh be a clone if he has a sword and uses it as an AT?

It's existence is already acknowledged by Sakurai. I'm sure he would use it.

Oh no, but Samurai Goroh will be a clone of Takamaru.

#chronobound logic

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Why would Samurai Goroh be a clone if he has a sword and uses it as an AT?

It's existence is already acknowledged by Sakurai. I'm sure he would use it.

Well, technically he could use it to extend his range on his version of Raptor Boost/ Falcon Knuckle.

 

[Whit]

Isn't Awakening's success a fact and not bias? >.>
His potential uniqueness to be paired with Lucina with the pair system mechanics, I'm pretty sure that's enough merits for him to get in a playable form.

But what would make the pairing unique? We already have paired newcomers with Rosalina & Luma and they are also bringing something new to the paired gameplay (being able to separate at will). Chrom & Lucina would have to bring something pretty unique in order not to end up like a semi clone.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, technically he could use it to extend his range on his version of Raptor Boost/ Falcon Knuckle.

That would look REALLY weird...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Given that every new character so far has been based around a specific aspect of gameplay or introduced a new one, any future newcomers will likely have to offer something very unique in order to be considered for the roster. I would bet money that this is what Sakurai is thinking when picking characters, so I doubt that there will be any semiclone characters this time around.

You mean like the first newcomers in Brawl

 

[Depressed Gengar]

That would look REALLY weird...

How?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You mean like the first newcomers in Brawl

What?

How?

Using a Katana to do stabbing and flicking motions like that just seems... odd.

 

[BluePikmin11]

But what would make the pairing unique? We already have paired newcomers with Rosalina & Luma and they are also bringing something new to the paired gameplay (being able to separate at will). Chrom & Lucina would have to bring something pretty unique in order not to end up like a semi clone.

Don't really think they would be a semi-clone, because we don't really have duo sword characters yet. . :
The potential moves such as Dual Guard (Which would cancel any attack unlike counter) and Dual Strike (In which the other does the same move, but obviously done differently), relying comboing fury (Lucina) or offense (Chrom) gives alot of options for them to win the battle. Or perhaps we could have the relationship mechanic involved too, when you get C, B, and A support you gain better stats. O.o

 

[Whit]

You mean like the first newcomers in Brawl

Huh... I guess you're right. Still though, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel here for popular newcomers and I don't think Sakurai is looking at fan demand in the slightest unless he can make them unique.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Using a Katana to do stabbing and flicking motions like that just seems... odd.

To one their own, I guess. I personally don't think it would look THAT weird. Although I guess it could look a little odd.

 

[False Sense]

Toon Zelda and Tetra, more prominent overall? Yes. Though the Wind Waker-derived subseries of Zelda has a similar aspect to Mario, in that it's light-hearted nature allows story-driven characters more appearances (Vaati, Tetra). But in the grand scheme of things, that's unimportant.

However, what is important is that a new Zelda character also maintains uniqueness. While Tetra could possess this, T. Zelda most certainly would not.

Popularity is also a factor in inclusion. While Tingle may be popular overseas, in the US he is almost universally reviled. Overall, assuming he is overwhelming popular in the East, that makes in 50/50.

Actually, we're sort of getting into the territory of why I think solo Tetra is actually one of the more likely Zelda choices. I think that Tetra does have the necessary recurring roles and importance within the series to make it in, and, by herself, she could be a unique character. She also seems to be fairly liked as a character, but that's just from my limited knowledge of people's feelings towards the character.

So, I guess the bottom line of all this is that I don't find Midna too terribly likely due to her lack of importance to the series overall, at least compared to other characters in the series, and as a result I'd be hesitant to give her the title of a Nintendo All-Star. However, I will admit that she does have some importance, and she definitely has the potential to be a unique character. I just don't see her getting in over her competition, especially when the Zelda series may not even get a new character.

 

[Kenith]

Huh... I guess you're right. Still though, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel here for popular newcomers and I don't think Sakurai is looking at fan demand in the slightest unless he can make them unique.

I disagree. I believe that considering Sakurai has stated many fan-conscious things, that he would consider every plausible candidate for a newcomer and marks them as he goes.

Don't really think they would be a semi-clone, because we don't really have duo sword characters yet. . :
The potential moves such as Dual Guard (Which would cancel any attack unlike counter) and Dual Strike (In which the other does the same move, but obviously done differently), relying comboing fury (Lucina) or offense (Chrom) gives alot of options for them to win the battle. Or perhaps we could have the relationship mechanic involved too, when you get C, B, and A support you gain better stats. O.o

Dual Guard sounds extremely useless. The best thing about Counter is that it allows you a chance to counter-act the opponent, to lead into combos.