Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

All I gleaned from that is Isaac was second out of the Nintendo characters on some poll.

Right, because Banjo-Kazooie isn't secretly your most wanted.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Castlevania has a rich history with Nintendo and has many notable soundtracks that would sound great in Smash.

Alucard from Castlevania III or even Kid Dracula could be an Assist Trophy... and Dracula from Super Castlevania IV could be a stage boss (only because I don't want his final form from the NES games to be a stage boss since large stage bosses like Ridley and Yellow Devil tend to be annoying).

Simon Belmont for Smash!

No to Dracula as a stage boss. Final bosses are way too important for that. I'm thinking Death, if anyone.

Also, a vote for Simon is a vote for the best stage hazard: Medusa heads.

 

[N3ON]

Right, because Banjo-Kazooie isn't secretly your most wanted.

Banjo is openly my most wanted, but Isaac is the one I'm supporting more.

Obviously I'd love Banjo, I was just joking.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

That's how I feel about Banjo. Since I was 10 dude.. Wanna know how long ago that was??

That was 2000 dude... The year 2000. Back when it was N64 and PS1, Pokemon vs. Digimon. Back when Tony Hawk was relevant. Back when you'd spend hours trying to unlock secrets based on playground rumors. Back when Britney Spears, the Backstreet Boys, and the Barenaked Ladies were hot on the radio, as well as that one Blue song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ugkg9RePc

That's a long time dude...

While I support Banjo, I do think it's less likely than what some people think, if you voted for him, I'm fine with that, I voted for him too. But for me, Rayman is my choice.

 

[Spazzy_D]

The best reason to vote for a character is how awesome Kirby will look when taking their power.

#VoteBomber

 

[N3ON]

The best reason to vote for a character is how awesome Kirby will look when taking their power.

#VoteBomber

For my money nothing is ever going to beat this:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

found this before sleeping

 

[Deleted member]

No to Dracula as a stage boss. Final bosses are way too important for that. I'm thinking Death, if anyone.

Also, a vote for Simon is a vote for the best stage hazard: Medusa heads.

Death as a stage boss would be so... boss. Lol

I wanted that to be a thing since Bosses were a thing in Brawl.

Too bad I don't see any Konami characters getting in atm considering they don't seem to be doing too well atm in general, are making AWFUL managerial decisions, and didn't respond to Nintendo's good will.

>No Metal Gear Rising on WiiU
>No MGS HD Collection
>No ZoE
>Castlevania went to **** with LoS
>What happened to YuGiOh?
List goes on.

Simon in Smash 5 would be neat though.

Banjo is openly my most wanted, but Isaac is the one I'm supporting more.

Obviously I'd love Banjo, I was just joking.

I knew you were kidding. Which is why I called you on it.

While I support Banjo, I do think it's less likely than what some people think, if you voted for him, I'm fine with that, I voted for him too. But for me, Rayman is my choice.

I think this is the best chance the Bear and Bird will ever get, period.

That's a chance worth taking man.

 

[Spazzy_D]

For my money nothing is ever going to beat this:

I was actually thinking of that when I posted.

Probably the best reason to want Snake back.

 

[Deleted member]

For my money nothing is ever going to beat this:

YES!!

found this before sleeping

Dude, Mario in Smash would be so awesome.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

I think this is the best chance the Bear and Bird will ever get, period.

That's a chance worth taking man.

I'm not saying it's not worth taking the shot, it totally is. I would never of guessed Phil Spencer would say that. I respect Banjo fans such as yourself for sticking to your character.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I somewhat disagree. I think the relevance argument is dumb altogether anyway, but I'm damn near convinced Mother 3 localization is just around the corner.

Honestly, I actually agree with this. However, clearly muhrelevance isn't an issue because they announced Lucas long before a Mother 3 remake. The only reason I think they may be planning Mother 3D is because they said more 3DS remakes this year, and the top candidate (DK64) is now out of the running, and any other potential 3DS remakes they could do of N64 games can just easily get re-releases.


I personally am with N3ON, though, I don't think we'll get any third-parties. A new third-party rep would need to get massive votes and popularity to justify the licensing, and none of them really have that. I also disagree on people bringing up Shantae. Out of the major Indie's, she's the one with the biggest history from Nintendo. The issue is, she doesn't have the Japanese fanbase either.


Quote I think is the best Indie pick, because he basically revolutionized Indie games. He's mainly on PC and Nintendo, but at least he's on Nintendo, and has both Japanese and western support. The problem is Japan would be the ones with the biggest support, and he doesn't seem to have nearly as much western support as Shantae or Shovel Knight. Since the Indie support is so divided, no single character will have a huge lead on each other.


Meanwhile, the Nintendo characters are the ones most likely to get in the game, I can't see more than one third-party being added, and no third-party has a standout lead over the others, just like the Indie's. Meanwhile, King K. Rool and Isaac are the top Nintendo newcomers in most polls. As such, I'd argue they're the current frontrunners (which makes me happy, my #1 and #2, don't care after that). Wolf surprisingly hasn't been as high, though he's still very close; and either way he's the only real guarantee anyway.

I'm not saying it's not worth taking the shot, it totally is. I would never of guessed Phil Spencer would say that. I respect Banjo fans such as yourself for sticking to your character.

But I do agree with this. No harming in voting for Banjo. I think Banjo is extremely unlikely to happen because Nintendo has to support another first-party developer, but vote for him if you wish.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

found this before sleeping

This isn't real. Nintendo of America would not call other 3rd party characters...that word. Still funny though.

 

[Pazzo.]

Yeah that's true. Even when he had the trophy the consensus on him was pretty split and eventually died down.

If he ever gets in Ubisoft owes a great debt to Hex.

Really goes to show how crazy that whole thing was... XD

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

This isn't real. Nintendo of America would not call other 3rd party characters...that word. Still funny though.

*Insert "That's the joke" image here*

 

[Deleted member]

But I do agree with this. No harming in voting for Banjo. I think Banjo is extremely unlikely to happen because Nintendo has to support another first-party developer, but vote for him if you wish.

Well, a few things. Bear in mind that it ISN'T a popularity contest. Getting top votes isn't mandatory to get anything. However, I do agree that a Guest character like Banjo would need to get TOP votes for that to happen. However, I'd have to wonder how accurate a representation of the ballots the surveys are. Considering the media hype and buzz surrounding Banjo, I'd say he has more than what's represented in the ballots. Not to mention a few have been confirmed to be rigged (2 of the reddit ones and the 4chan one come to mind).

Anyway, as far as Banjo goes. I don't see how supporting M$ is that big a deal, especially if Nintendo can strike something similar to what they did with SEGA and Sonic. The fan demand for it is there, and it seems M$ doesn't entirely know what to do with the Rare IPs.

Considering Xbox's new management with Phil and all the decisions they've made since the Xbone recovered, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibilities.

Likewise, people forget that Brawl promoted a rival competitor with Snake and all the MGS4 assets. Hell, the Snake we got wasn't even the Twin Snakes Snake, but the MGS2 Snake. And Snake in general, despite being 3rd party is more of a Sony icon. Yet it still happened. Banjo on the other hand, is still seen as a Nintendo icon despite being owned by M$. He's even had more games on Nintendo consoles than Xbox. In many says, Banjo appearing in Smash would be no different from Sonic or Snake appearing in Smash in the same way Rare is now a 2nd party company that produces for a parent publisher (M$), but still develops games on other platorms from time to time (Banjo Pilot, and Viva Piñata DS for example), in the same way Snake is mainly tied to Sony, most MGS games are still mainly Sony exclusive, but will appear in other consoles from time to time (Brawl, Twin Snakes, and Snake Eater 3D).

Nintendo wouldn't lose anything for making negotiations with M$, especially considering most Rare fans aren't gonna buy a M$ published Rare game anymore (Conker in Project Spark), since the consumer has lost faith in them.

If a Banjo game appeared on a Nintendo console, it'd sell like hotcakes at a lumberjack convention. If a Banjo game were to be released on Xbox again, the sales would be average.

 

[Deleted member]

I lied, I found another:

Also, remember this?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I lied, I found another:
View attachment 46742

Also, remember this?

Such beloved memories. I still watch that commercial on YouTube up to this day.

 

[Spinosaurus]

found this before sleeping

Might want to take that down for profanity. **** is censored here.

Same goes for all of you who quoted it.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

I lied, I found another:
View attachment 46742

Also, remember this?

A bird carrying another animal as a character for Super Smash Brothers. Don't be ridiculous that will never work.

 

[Kalimdori]

I really hate seeing all of this Banjo support because it would be so amazing to have him. But it isnt happening

Hi Sakurai, how are you?

 

[Deleted member]

Also, remember this?

I actually do remember this, vaguely.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Well, a few things. Bear in mind that it ISN'T a popularity contest. Getting top votes isn't mandatory to get anything. However, I do agree that a Guest character like Banjo would need to get TOP votes for that to happen. However, I'd have to wonder how accurate a representation of the ballots the surveys are. Considering the media hype and buzz surrounding Banjo, I'd say he has more than what's represented in the ballots. Not to mention a few have been confirmed to be rigged (2 of the reddit ones and the 4chan one come to mind).

Yes it is. Getting top votes probably isn't required to get someone playable, but its definitely going to be a huge factor. Regardless of what you and others thing, this IS a popularity contest. That's not the end-all decision but it will be a factor.

Anyway, as far as Banjo goes. I don't see how supporting M$ is that big a deal, especially if Nintendo can strike something similar to what they did with SEGA and Sonic. The fan demand for it is there, and it seems M$ doesn't entirely know what to do with the Rare IPs.

Considering Xbox's new management with Phil and all the decisions they've made since the Xbone recovered, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibilities.

Likewise, people forget that Brawl promoted a rival competitor with Snake and all the MGS4 assets. Hell, the Snake we got wasn't even the Twin Snakes Snake, but the MGS2 Snake. And Snake in general, despite being 3rd party is more of a Sony icon. Yet it still happened.[/quote]
And guess who is gone in this game? And as far as we've heard, Konami is still open to Snake being in Smash. So who is the one who cut Snake, then?


NINTENDO! Nintendo cut Snake because they wanted to strengthen the bond between Konami and get Konami to port MGS games, but it DID NOT HAPPEN. Now Snake coming back is highly coming into question.

Nintendo wouldn't lose anything for making negotiations with M$, especially considering most Rare fans aren't gonna buy a M$ published Rare game anymore (Conker in Project Spark), since the consumer has lost faith in them.

If a Banjo game appeared on a Nintendo console, it'd sell like hotcakes at a lumberjack convention. If a Banjo game were to be released on Xbox again, the sales would be average.

I'm sure Nintendo would love to get Banjo back on their consoles. It won't happen because MS bought Rare for a reason; to take Rare and all their IP's away from Nintendo. Phil Spencer is making the claim that he'd support Banjo in Smash Bros. However, that's NOT getting a new Banjo game onto Nintendo platforms. It cannot and will not happen. Honestly, MS is probably making a new Banjo game right now. And guess what?

Its going to be exclusive to X-Box. Microsoft would be stupid to put it on Nintendo consoles, because they want to attract that Rare fanbase back again. Nintendo, of course, wants to keep their fans, so the odds are good they wouldn't make a deal for something that's exclusive to a third-party, even if Banjo is "technically" more of a Nintendo character than anything. Yes, he was a huge Nintendo star. But he was bought by MS.


I know fans want Banjo, and I'd totally support Banjo getting into Smash Bros. and coming back to Nintendo. However, its simply wishful thinking.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Hi Sakurai, how are you?

im good just enjoying the tears of thousands

I dont see any possibility of one of if not Nintendo's biggest competitor, microsoft, and Nintendo making a deal like that. There would be more strings attached then one would like dealing with. Then again Snake happened I guess but Konami and Nintendo arent huge rivals.

Being DLC doesnt really help the situation.

I like Kid Icarus. I must be Sakurai

 

[Kalimdori]

I dont see any possibility of one of if not Nintendo's biggest competitor, microsoft, and Nintendo making a deal like that. There would be more strings attached then one would like dealing with. Then again Snake happened I guess but Konami and Nintendo arent huge rivals.

Being DLC doesnt really help the situation.

Does ANYBODY here know how the deals to get characters not owned by Nintendo into Smash go down? What the contracts entail, how long it takes, how DLC would even apply to it?

Of course not, unless one of you is actually a member of the Smash Bros development team, all we have to go off of are the few things that have been said about it in the past, and that was in regards to the base game, not DLC. The only things that we have to go off of for 3rd parties in relation to DLC is that A) A ton of companies want their characters in, and B) A Nintendo representative reassured that we can vote for any video game character, not just Nintendo ones.

For all we know, adding in third party characters via DLC might be desirable by Nintendo. Character DLC is, after all, based on the character, adding in a popular protagonist owned by another company that millions of people would recognize certainly wouldn't hurt Nintendo or the profits they could make from said character.

Or maybe they don't want any third party DLC characters at all. I dunno, and nobody else here does either. But speaking in absolutes that "There is no possibility of Banjo happening cause MICROSOFT" or "Indie characters could never happen, they aren't iconic enough to be in Smash" is rather shortsighted. It's DLC, a completely new possibility that Sakurai hasn't said much on. He's been adamant about 3rd party characters having to basically be gaming icons in order to get into the base game, but DLC? Maybe that's OK in his book.

 

[MagnesD3]

I should really play a Banjo Kazooie game someday so I can actually see what the whole fuss is about.

I really enjoyed Donkey Kong 64 as another of Rare's N64 games (Well besides the dreaded minigames at least) so if it's a bit like that then I'm all for it.

Banjo Kazooie is my favorite game of all time and tooie is basically right behind. These games are fantastic if you like 3d platformers, go play them..

 

[Hippopotasauce]

I should really play a Banjo Kazooie game someday so I can actually see what the whole fuss is about.

I really enjoyed Donkey Kong 64 as another of Rare's N64 games (Well besides the dreaded minigames at least) so if it's a bit like that then I'm all for it.

Banjo-Kazooie is a lighter version of DK64 with more platforming and less minigames and backtracking.
Banjo-Tooie is a 3D Metroidvania.

 

[JaidynReiman]

im good just enjoying the tears of thousands

I dont see any possibility of one of if not Nintendo's biggest competitor, microsoft, and Nintendo making a deal like that. There would be more strings attached then one would like dealing with. Then again Snake happened I guess but Konami and Nintendo arent huge rivals.

Being DLC doesnt really help the situation.

I like Kid Icarus. I must be Sakurai

The issue with Snake is that Konami isn't a first-party console maker.

Does ANYBODY here know how the deals to get characters not owned by Nintendo into Smash go down? What the contracts entail, how long it takes, how DLC would even apply to it?

Of course not, unless one of you is actually a member of the Smash Bros development team, all we have to go off of are the few things that have been said about it in the past, and that was in regards to the base game, not DLC. The only things that we have to go off of for 3rd parties in relation to DLC is that A) A ton of companies want their characters in, and B) A Nintendo representative reassured that we can vote for any video game character, not just Nintendo ones.

For all we know, adding in third party characters via DLC might be desirable by Nintendo. Character DLC is, after all, based on the character, adding in a popular protagonist owned by another company that millions of people would recognize certainly wouldn't hurt Nintendo or the profits they could make from said character.

Or maybe they don't want any third party DLC characters at all. I dunno, and nobody else here does either. But speaking in absolutes that "There is no possibility of Banjo happening cause MICROSOFT" or "Indie characters could never happen, they aren't iconic enough to be in Smash" is rather shortsighted. It's DLC, a completely new possibility that Sakurai hasn't said much on. He's been adamant about 3rd party characters having to basically be gaming icons in order to get into the base game, but DLC? Maybe that's OK in his book.

Third-party contracts are far, far more difficult to manage and require licensing fees and constantly going back and forth to ensure the character is designed exactly the way the third-party wants it. Yes, third-parties are more complicated and they'd need to justify the investment.


I do think Nintendo is considering third-parties, but I wouldn't expect more than one because of the complexity of them. As for Indie's, I think they're more likely than AAA developers, since the Indie's would be less likely to complain and charge licensing fees. At the same time, they have mixed support. So as far as Indie's go, I'm just iffy any single Indie would get enough support, especially since the top two right now (Shantae and Shovel Knight) have no Japanese backing.


In regards to Banjo and Kazooie... they'd undoubtedly be even more difficult than merely getting a regular third-party character from a AAA developer, because they're not just from a third-party. They're from a different FIRST party developer, one whom purposely took Rare away from Nintendo to try and hurt Nintendo. That's not something easy to mend at all.

 

[Deathlightning21]

I think we all know who should be the next smash bros character!

*insert image of dic-butt here*

 

[Deleted member]

And guess who is gone in this game? And as far as we've heard, Konami is still open to Snake being in Smash. So who is the one who cut Snake, then?


NINTENDO! Nintendo cut Snake because they wanted to strengthen the bond between Konami and get Konami to port MGS games, but it DID NOT HAPPEN. Now Snake coming back is highly coming into question.

Wrong, Snake was added mainly as a favor to a close friend of Sakurai's Hideo Kojima, who has wanted Snake to be in Smash since Melee.

It had MUCH less to do with wanting to strengthen ties, and much more to do with a friend paying tribute. Yes, no doubt Nintendo hoped to get in good rep with Konami, but then why Snake directly promoting MGS4 content? Snake is a Sony icon essentially. Sony, who by the way is a MUCH bigger competitor to Nintendo than M$ will ever be since M$ does not do handhelds, isn't relevant in Japan, and has negotiated with Nintendo in the past.

If goodwill was all Nintendo ever wanted, then why was Snake in Smash over Simon, and, why is Simon not in THIS time around?

The evidence is simple, Nintendo has no qualms promoting content in rival consoles since their target audience doesn't overlap with Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo will in fact have content on their consoles that might "help" their competitors if it will also benefit them.

The idea that Nintendo would never promote a rival game, content, or console is a baseless strawman argument that has been proven incorrect by numerous actions taken by Nintendo in fact.

Snake didn't come back because Nintendo simply didn't see the need to bring him back. Simple as that. No spite, no hard feelings. Not to mention THREE guest characters in Smash is really pushing it, adding Snake to the bill when demand isn't apparent just wasn't in the cards anymore.

Difference being now, with Snake being a vet, and Banjo a newcomer, a Rare character being in Smash would create UNDENIABLE hype, as is apparent by the buzz on the internet. Hype equal to that which happened when Sonic was announced for Brawl. More hype=more publicity=more console and game sales as well as in this case DLC.

FACT.

I'm sure Nintendo would love to get Banjo back on their consoles.

So this is something we can agree on then. Nintendo would like to see Rareware content appear on their consoles again. Clearly they've had no qualms with it in the past, and moreover are fully aware of the love and fan demand behind Rareware games and IP.

It won't happen because MS bought Rare for a reason; to take Rare and all their IP's away from Nintendo. Phil Spencer is making the claim that he'd support Banjo in Smash Bros. However, that's NOT getting a new Banjo game onto Nintendo platforms. It cannot and will not happen. Honestly, MS is probably making a new Banjo game right now.

.
You are making a lot of absolutes, and moreover seem to imply that you have insight as to what goes on behind the development in the industry.

Might wanna change your tone, and look at the objective facts. Phil Spencer's approach toward handlng the Xbox and gaming is totally different to that of the previous head Don Mattrick. All the bull**** that happened to Rare, the treatment Rare IP got from M$, and the direction the Xbox took these past two gens, as well as the buyout that happened, if you wanna blame one person for it all, blame him. When you have a new director in charge of a company changes are made. Banjo was picked and pulled apart from it original idea, and Rare was demolished because that was during a time in which Microsoft was focused on appealing to certain gaming audiences (this is even referenced by the Rare devs, as a satire, in Nuts an Bolts). A lot of **** went on behind the scenes back then. Clearly. Yes, it's true that at one time, M$ sought to brand itself with popular IP, and thus acquired the rights to Rare in hopes of getting a one up on Nintendo. However despite that, the two still made negotiations.

Anyway, I'm rambling cause I'm tired, but the point I wanna make is simple. old M$ RUINED Rare and Banjo, and as a result has lost consumer faith in that product, and now has NO IDEA what to do with those IP. Clearly. Yes, Spencer is trying to rebrand and bring them back, but for that, he needs to regain consumer faith. As such, I'm certain he's open to negotiations with Nintendo to help his IP get back on track as they should. As he has CLEARLY STATED IN A TWEET MADE IN REGARD TO THE IP.

Those are the undeniable facts. Not speculation. Times change. Leaders change. Decisions change. Approaches change. What we have is a chance, and an opportunity. Saying that it "wil not happen" is nothing more than your personal, and somewhat misguided opinion.

Does M$ have a Banjo game in the works? There are rumors, but nothing is certain in truth. At this point in time, a Banjo game on Xbox simply wouldn't sell as good as Spencer would hope. The brand is ruined. If there is one, would it be Xbox exclusive.?Perhaps, perhaps not. Most likely yes. Is there a chance a Banjo game could be released on a Nintendo console again though however? Yes, Banjo had 2 Nintendo exclusive titles after the Rare buyout. Is it possible that Banjo might come to Nintendo VC if negotiations are made? Yes, it's possible. Is it possible that Banjo might appear in Smash? If there is enough demand for it, it is in fact VERY possible.

Its going to be exclusive to X-Box. Microsoft would be stupid to put it on Nintendo consoles, because they want to attract that Rare fanbase back again.

Microsoft clearly has NO problems in allowing 3rd party developers to handle their IP to make Nintendo exclusive titles. And in fact, iirc, GR was developed by Rare, but I could be wrong.

Nintendo, of course, wants to keep their fans, so the odds are good they wouldn't make a deal for something that's exclusive to a third-party, even if Banjo is "technically" more of a Nintendo character than anything. Yes, he was a huge Nintendo star. But he was bought by MS.

I don't quite follow, but prior to Snake appearing in Smash, Nintendo didn't seal or make any deals to "keep" Metal Gear fans. I'm certain Nintendo was more than aware that despite anything, most MGS fans wouls still play MGS games on Sony consoles, even if some titles appeared on Nintendo platforms. What you are doing here is speculating based on what you believe Nintendo is likely to do, however, previous actions by them have already proven you wrong.

I know fans want Banjo, and I'd totally support Banjo getting into Smash Bros. and coming back to Nintendo. However, its simply wishful thinking.

I think that everyone is more than fully aware that the rights to Banjo will continue to belong to M$ no matter what happens. However, the possibility of the character appearing on Nintendo consoles again, as well as Smash are not "wistful thinking" there is a very real and legitimate possibility. Mainly because Spencer's tweet did TWO things. It removed the most difficult obstacle out of the way, which is M$'s consent to the matter, and 2, it generated a lot of hype and publicity for the possibility of it happening, which in turn = support for the character, which then translates to a hefty amount of DLC sales.

People need to realize that like M$, Nintendo is first and foremost A BUSINESS, and as such, it will take actions which will in turn translate into short or long-term profit for them. Banjo appearing in Smash, is not a "lose" situation for Nintendo in ANY way. And I've yet to see a convincing argument for such. Neither is it a "lose" situation for M$. Due to the demand, and hype behind a character like Banjo, and all of oldRare's IPs and content (aka NOSTALGIA), in the case of Banjo, what we have is a wonderful opportunity for a "win-win" situation for both parties. Like with Sonic, the only thing needed is the support.

And before you reply again, take a moment to realize, that before Sonic was revealed for Brawl. That too was nothing but wistful thinking and a pipe dream. Negative and assured comments were made by people back then, saying that it was IMPOSSIBLE that Sonic would ever appear in Smash because he was SEGA property, and Mario's rival. People wanted to see it, sure, but it was an impossibility.

Then this happened.

Guess people were wrong.

Never say never, never say impossible, because those are always the FIRST people to be proven wrong.

 

[N3ON]

Putting Banjo in Smash would be a win for Microsoft. It would be a win for gamers. But I don't think it'd be enough of a win for Nintendo that they'd do it.

I mean look what happened with Goldeneye on the VC. Or should I say, look what didn't happen with Goldeneye on the VC.

Maybe if they also got Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie on the VC or something, but I'm still hesitant to think they'd be ready to include a competitor's character.

Yes they're competitors in the console space.

 

[Kalimdori]

Third-party contracts are far, far more difficult to manage and require licensing fees and constantly going back and forth to ensure the character is designed exactly the way the third-party wants it. Yes, third-parties are more complicated and they'd need to justify the investment.

I'm not denying that they are more difficult to manage, I'm saying that nobody here knows the extent of HOW difficult they are, and just how much it would take for Nintendo to justify the investment.

In regards to Banjo and Kazooie... they'd undoubtedly be even more difficult than merely getting a regular third-party character from a AAA developer, because they're not just from a third-party. They're from a different FIRST party developer, one whom purposely took Rare away from Nintendo to try and hurt Nintendo. That's not something easy to mend at all.

This is an example of this. People keep saying that it's much harder for Banjo because Banjo is from a different First Party developer. How exactly does that change the agreements and processes? The implications are bigger, obviously, but do you have any actual proof that the process changes? Them taking away Rare is valid, but I'd argue that a certain blue hedgehog had quite a bit of bad history with Nintendo as well, and look how that turned out. Banjo isn't involved with Nintendo consoles anymore, but neither was Snake.


Heck, since it's focused on the single character, rather then a full game, I'd imagine that DLC is the easiest way to add a 3rd party character.

 

[Deleted member]

In regards to Banjo and Kazooie... they'd undoubtedly be even more difficult than merely getting a regular third-party character from a AAA developer, because they're not just from a third-party. They're from a different FIRST party developer, one whom purposely took Rare away from Nintendo to try and hurt Nintendo. That's not something easy to mend at all.

I'd like to know what exactly is it that makes them more difficult than 3rd party characters when they have appeared on Nintendo consoles already, they have appeared in crossover (Sega All Stars), and the proprietor has already stated that he has no problem with the character getting in.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

I know I missed out a previous conversation, but I'll say some of the characters I wanted Pre-Smash 4 release:
Roy (My Boy, so I wanted him back, especially with his design from Awakening) Chrom (Going with the logic that New Lord gets in), Wonder Red (Loved The Wonderful 101) Little Mac (Loved Punch-Out!!, thought he was perfect, had a previous Assist Trophy), Shulk (loved Xenoblade, and could always imagine him shouting out "Streeeam Edge!!" "Shadow Eye!" for some of his Specials.) And eventually converted to Ridley (Initially neutral, but found interest in him. HOWEVER, I'm back to neutral in terms of supporting Ridley as DLC. It'd be amazing, and I'd be happy with it, but I don't think it'll happen this iteration.)

 

[Deleted member]

Putting Banjo in Smash would be a win for Microsoft. It would be a win for gamers. But I don't think it'd be enough of a win for Nintendo that they'd do it.

I mean look what happened with Goldeneye on the VC. Or should I say, look what didn't happen with Goldeneye on the VC.

Maybe if they also got Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie on the VC or something, but I'm still hesitant to think they'd be ready to include a competitor's character.

Yes they're competitors in the console space.

But how much of a competitor really?

Again, each time this gets brought up, you merely need to look at Snake. Metal Gear is synonymous with Sony. Always has been. And yet, that happened, and it did nothing BUT promote a PS3 exclusive title.

Xbone fans don't much care for cartoony platformers. And anyone willing to buy an Xbone for a Banjo game will undoubtedly buy a WiiU, a copy of Smash, the DLC, and an amiibo as well. As well as an VC releases of Rare games on WiiU (like DK64 which was recently announced).

The difference between Goldeneye VC and Banjo is that Banjo is already showing signs of support, AND Rare fans have been itching to a true Banjo sequel for a long time now. So much that the old Rare devs even got together to make a spiritual successor.


EDIT: I would even say that M$ making a new Banjo game would in turn promote the Banjo Smash DLC as much as the DLC would promote the new game.

 

[Sid-cada]

I'd like to know what exactly is it that makes them more difficult than 3rd party characters when they have appeared on Nintendo consoles already, they have appeared in crossover (Sega All Stars), and the proprietor has already stated that he has no problem with the character getting in.

I think one of the big issues here is time. Remember, the next Nintendo home console is already in development, and is being planed to be released within, say, 3 years.

If we assume that character considerations won't be considered until near the end of the ballot until it ends in October, or even reasonably earlier to that, chances are Nintendo will be planing around the new console around that exact time.

Add the fact that they have to make an effort go go through all the red tape to make certain that the characters are going to be up to par with how both companies want them to be presented and characterized, and that's another couple of months right there.

On top of that, we still have to work out a move set that is balanced, fitting, and interesting to the current iteration of Smash Brothers, while still working with the limitations of the contract AND with the above heads approval, it's going to be a long, long while before they can even be teased. Oh, and don't forget bug removal. Don't want millions wasted on a glitched character, am I right?

Once that happens, about how much time do you expect until the next console comes? I'd expect maybe a year and a half, at minimum. Probably late enough that the next console will be prioritized at the very least, or that's what I think.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I wanted loads of characters pre-release but I'll just state the ones that did get in:
Little Mac and Bowser Jr.

Too bad the former has a moveset that is way too extreme for my liking and the latter is really bad. :/ Least Jr is still fun and I ended up loving the way Mega Man plays. Plus I got Doc Mario back so it works out.

 

[Deleted member]

I think one of the big issues here is time. Remember, the next Nintendo home console is already in development, and is being planed to be released within, say, 3 years.

If we assume that character considerations won't be considered until near the end of the ballot until it ends in October, or even reasonably earlier to that, chances are Nintendo will be planing around the new console around that exact time.

Add the fact that they have to make an effort go go through all the red tape to make certain that the characters are going to be up to par with how both companies want them to be presented and characterized, and that's another couple of months right there.

On top of that, we still have to work out a move set that is balanced, fitting, and interesting to the current iteration of Smash Brothers, while still working with the limitations of the contract AND with the above heads approval, it's going to be a long, long while before they can even be teased. Oh, and don't forget bug removal. Don't want millions wasted on a glitched character, am I right?

Once that happens, about how much time do you expect until the next console comes? I'd expect maybe a year and a half, at minimum. Probably late enough that the next console will be prioritized at the very least, or that's what I think.

Nintendo isn't gonna drop support for the WiiU anytime soon. Despite what the doomsayers might say.

Zelda is still scheduled to release on WiiU, and this E3 is supposed to mainly focus WiiU games. Likewise, though I do believe the NX will be a home console (or rather and home and portable hybrid), remember that Nintendo usually releases a portable and a home console in intervals. We literally know NOTHING about the NX, nor what it might be.

Whatever plans Nintendo has for that won't interfere with them trying to make profit of their current console. They're making DLC, time or not, your argument applies to ALL DLC characters, NOT just Banjo or 3rd parties. So if what you were saying is true, then this ballot wouldn't even exist.

Also, as far as the NX goes, as stated by Nintendo, don't go expecting a typical console.

 

[N3ON]

But how much of a competitor really?

Enough of a competitor that, to my knowledge, a Microsoft IP has never shown up on a Nintendo home console, or vice versa.

Again, each time this gets brought up, you merely need to look at Snake. Metal Gear is synonymous with Sony. Always has been. And yet, that happened, and it did nothing BUT promote a PS3 exclusive title.

Metal Gear may heavily favour the Sony platforms, but at least they're not exclusive to them. At least they support Nintendo to some extent, even if that extent is small. Metal Gear does show up from time to time on Nintendo platforms, and after Snake was in Brawl, probably sold better than it would've otherwise. Weren't there rumors about MGSV being planned for the Wii U before all the third-parties got cold feet and ran away?

Xbone fans don't much care for cartoony platformers. And anyone willing to buy an Xbone for a Banjo game will undoubtedly buy a WiiU, a copy of Smash, the DLC, and an amiibo as well. As well as an VC releases of Rare games on WiiU (like DK64 which was recently announced).

I would agree anyone willing to buy an XB1 for Banjo would buy all that other stuff as well, but what about all those people who already own an XB1 or are planning to get it for reasons other than Banjo, yet will buy the Banjo game? XB1 fans might not buy the system for cartoony platformers, but a lot of them probably grew up with Banjo and the 64, so they might feel inclined to pick the game up regardless.

The thing is, people who would buy an XB1 for Banjo probably already own a Wii U... it's not like Banjo's fanbase is mostly made up of Xbox owners. Hell, most people still in Banjo's fanbase who have kept up with gaming probably own Smash too. Sure Nintendo would make a good profit on the DLC (as would Microsoft), and it would entice a few people into picking up the game maybe (dunno about a Wii U), but the overall benefits would weigh much more heavily in Microsoft's favour.

The difference between Goldeneye VC and Banjo is that Banjo is already showing signs of support, AND Rare fans have been itching to a true Banjo sequel for a long time now. So much that the old Rare devs even got together to make a spiritual successor.

You think people wouldn't have supported Goldeneye on VC? It was one of the most popular games on the platform, Nintendo knows that. All the parties involved knew that. But Nintendo decided to deny themselves profit for the sake of denying their competitor profit. Trust me, if they weren't competitors, that's not a move Nintendo would've made.

And it doesn't matter what is going to come of Banjo's actual series, that's not in Nintendo's hands, and the profits from that wouldn't effect them. It's no incentive for them.

I don't really want to rag on Banjo's chances any more, they're still my most wanted character and defending why they might not make it bums me out, but it is what I believe.

 

[Troykv]

I waited for Little Mac and Palutena ... And in the end I was right xDDD