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Character Discussion Thread

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Starcutter

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so to buy the time until I do something productive, I'm listening to this awesome thing that combines a lot of different nintendo music.


to connect this to the thread, what music would be used in the trailer if your favorite newcomer/returning melee veteran was revealed?



I would be hyped for the doctor mario trailer just to hear that music in a smash trailer.
 

False Sense

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so to buy the time until I do something productive, I'm listening to this awesome thing that combines a lot of different nintendo music.


to connect this to the thread, what music would be used in the trailer if your favorite newcomer/returning melee veteran was revealed?



I would be hyped for the doctor mario trailer just to hear that music in a smash trailer.
Well, for me, I'd like to hear the Kanto Legendary music from Pokemon X and Y if Mewtwo gets revealed.

Other things I'd like to hear would be Ridley's theme for... Ridley... Id (Purpose) for Robin, and Gangplank Galleon for King K. Rool.
 

Arcanir

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so to buy the time until I do something productive, I'm listening to this awesome thing that combines a lot of different nintendo music.


to connect this to the thread, what music would be used in the trailer if your favorite newcomer/returning melee veteran was revealed?



I would be hyped for the doctor mario trailer just to hear that music in a smash trailer.
Off the top of my head:

Ridley: Ridley's theme
King K. Rool: Crocodile Cacophony
Mewtwo: Kanto Legendary theme (XY)
Palutena: Skyworld
 

JamesDNaux

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So far the score is 2-1 for horizontal.

For the trailer themes, I agree with Arcanir's choices. Lip's remixed theme from Brawl would be perfect for a reveal too.

I posted this a while back, but I didnt really get any responses or opinions on it, so if it's alright, i'm going to re-post it.
There isn't really anything we can say since it's a dream roster, so it doesn't have to fit into any expectations. Unless you put Goku on it or something.

On a personal level, the lack of King K. Rool is awful, especially with Dixie being there instead. Ray, Vaati, Hades, and Lyn are characters that probably wouldn't get in, and Bayonetta sure as hell will never happen. But since it's a dream roster, that doesn't matter.
 
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Espio264

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Is there ever a generic Mii in any of the Wii games? Sure there's the dead eyed brunette guy or girl you get when you first go into the creator, but when you play Wii Sports or Wii Fit, they're constantly changing. I think that's how the miis in Smash would probably turn up as well, you get a random person with a stupid name each time. And honestly, saying that out loud proves that Miis would be much better suited to being the "Fighting Wireframes/Polygons/Alloys" of this game. They would pop up at random and in abundance, just like they do in their own games.

And that way we could keep them off the roster in favor of an actual Nintendo All Star, but still have them included in the game.
 
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MrAmaboKcorb

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Generic Mii would be the one you see in the character creator.
But I think it could also be done like in Mario Kart and just have the "Mii" logo and you choose your Mii from there.

However I do think Miis are Nintendo all stars. I thought they should be added back in Brawl, but now they're even more abundant and have more games to have a move set. Not to mention there are already two Mii related stages revealed. I think they're pretty likely.
 

RouffWestie

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so to buy the time until I do something productive, I'm listening to this awesome thing that combines a lot of different nintendo music.



to connect this to the thread, what music would be used in the trailer if your favorite newcomer/returning melee veteran was revealed?




I would be hyped for the doctor mario trailer just to hear that music in a smash trailer.
For Mewtwo, Mewtwo’s battle theme from Pokemon Rumble.

For Cranky, Tropical Freeze’s theme.

For Rhythm Woman, Tap Dance 2 from the GBA installment.

For Flipnote Frog, an original composition; like Flat Zone’s theme, but using Flipnote Studio sound clips.

Nobody cares about DeMille or Clavat, but for them I’d want to hear Patharan’s Song, the Extreme Attack version, and a Sound of the Wind instrumental.
 

Joe D.

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How about we discuss the possible return of Boss battles?

With the story being cut, i've found many people, (and myself,) being concerned that we will not see Boss Battles again, since most of those characters were parts of the story, (save Crazy Hand.) Anyways, I think we should get it back, with a new chain of Bosses. For example; let's see a fight verses Gigyas, or Andross! What about one versus Kraid? Heck, even an Eggman battle would be incredible, (although a bit more far-fetched.) I think adventure mode could be re-worked to include it's own variety of Boss Battles.

I'd love to hear some feedback and/ or disproving arguments about this ;)
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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Back to having K. Rool on my roster, it's been too long. I also limited the amount of character slots to 47. What do you guys think of it?
 

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False Sense

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Back to having K. Rool on my roster, it's been too long. I also limited the amount of character slots to 47. What do you guys think of it?
Looks pretty good to me. The only thing I'd really question on there is Muddy Mole, who I personally don't think is incredibly likely, but other than that you have some excellent choices while keeping the roster at a reasonable size. I'd say that's a solid roster.
 

UltimateWario

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Posted this in the Ridley thread, would like help from the supporters who don't frequent the thread. Your help is greatly appreciated.

So, I'm thinking about putting together a comprehensive "Anti-Ridley Argument Guide", one that fleshes out each of the most popular or common arguments against His Grace and explains how to thoroughly deal with each one. At this point, we all know that there's no real reason that Ridley can't be in Smash, especially with Sakurai's recent Miiverse post about how "scale be damned" in Smash obliterating the size argument, so I'd like to put together these responses in a professional, informative manner for aspiring Space Pirates to use in combat against our troublesome (and admittedly dull-witted) enemies. If I could get everyone's help and input, that would make it even more comprehensive and useful, with multiple views on each subject, as well as adding new arguments and counter-arguments to further bolster our defenses.

As such, here are a few of the most popular Anti-Ridley arguments, as well as a brief description of how they are faulty and can be countered.

1. "Ridley is too big to be in Smash!"
This is the big daddy of them all, a virus that was born from a misinterpreted quote from a interview with Sakurai. The "true" quote is "I think that would probably be impossible. [laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that have been all right? [laughs]" He never once states that Ridley is too large. You may receive "He said he was pretty impossible!", but then you remind them that this is also the issue where he claims that Animal Crossing characters cannot fight.

You'll get a lot about how Bowser can be resized because he has been before, which, in itself is faulty, since Ridley has to be resized to be resized before. Bowser is quite often several times larger than Mario, even in several playable appearances. Smash is among his smallest build. You'll also get nonsense about how Samus should fit in Ridley's hand, to which you simply post one of @Angelglory's size comparisons and tell them that, by that logic, Bowser has to be big enough for Mario to go inside his maw and adventure through his intestines.

This argument was completely destroyed in a recent Miiverse post, in which Sakurai stated that the series isn't always to scale. While it is a seemingly innocent post, I personally believe that Sakurai is aware of our plight and doing his best to tide us over until Ridley can be properly revealed.

2. "He was a boss in Brawl and should stay a boss!"
Another popular one, Little Mac destroys this argument. He was an Assist Trophy and sure as hell didn't stay one. Also, Bowser, Ganondorf, and DeDeDe were all bosses in their respective games before becoming playable. End of story.

3. "He's the stage hazard of Pyrosphere!"
This is the hardest one to combat, as it may be true, but the chances get slimmer and slimmer every day. Little Mac showed us that Sakurai likes to tease us when it comes to stages, so Pyrosphere faking us out is definitely in within Sakurai's limits of "trickery". Also relevant is that Ridley is the stage hazard of Pyrosphere in another fighting game, Dead or Alive: Dimensions, and Sakurai has displayed a general distaste with borrowing or copying elements from other games, especially fighting games.


That's it for now, but I'm very interested in hearing more input and such. I'd like to compile this stuff as well as possible.

We're compiling all of the information right here in the Ridley thread, so come on over if you want to check it out.
 
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SmasherMaster

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Posted this in the Ridley thread, would like help from the supporters who don't frequent the thread. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Mention that size from two characters from the same series as an arguement and use Pikachu, Charizard, Link, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo sizes.

And the fact Ridley is smaller than Bowser in their own canon games, as Bowser is four times the size of Mario and Ridley is only twice Samus' size.
 
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Shorts

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I really hope Trainer Red wasn't revealed because of Trainer Calum taking his place. Chespin / Braxian / Greninja would be an awesome team. I think the perfect combination, even. I'm actually going to make a B-Moveset for this team.

Edit: Done

So, switching out has been moved to a taunt, and it takes much less time. It's not REQUIRED, and there is no stamina.



Chespin – Lightweight Powerhouse

A Wood Hammer – A Chargable Hammer move, akin to Dedede’s Hammer Chespin puts his fists together, and when the A button is released his lifts them quickly, and smashes them onto the gound. Small leaf animations flutter everywhere after this move is used. The upward motion does (less) damage, as well as the actual smashing against the ground. His arms stretch of course. This move is for KOing. It’s somewhat predictable. In the air chespin’s fist Smash downward for a super charged meteor Smash.

A> Seed Bomb – Chespin throws a chesnut forward and depending on how long you charge it, the distance will be different. The actual damage however does not change. If it hits an opponent, it explodes, with nut shrapnel littering the opponent. This has a sort of “spray hit box” where the shrapnel can hurt an opponent who wasn’t neccisarily hit. However, not nearly as much as actually being hit. If it misses an opponent, it lays on the ground, and waits for someone to land on it. It cannot be jumped/walked on, but it can be grabbed in the air. He can have only two on the field.

A^ Mud Sport – This move slows an opponent down with a flurry of mud. The range is not very far, but if you can land it it is definitel worth the risk. Not their attack speed, just their walk/run. Chespin uses this to keep his speed at his advantage.

AV Bulk Up – Chespin breathes in deeply, holds his breath for two seconds, and breathes out. The action of breathing out actually works in a similar manor as fludd. It pushes opponents, but only slightly. Not as far as fludd. This move is used to raise Chespins small weight. You cannot double up on it, and you have to reuse it every forty five seconds. When bulk up is uses, an occasional red aura will emanate from him.

Grabs are vine whips, and can be used as a recovery. Also, he has a triple jump, and no true thrird jump. Just a triple jump and vine whip. So, recovery is where he is lacking. This is where bulk up comes in handy to keep him on the field for as long as possible. Overall Chespin lacks GREAT recovery, and is very light.


Braixen – Defensive Magician

A Will-O-Whisp – A maneuverable purple whisp of fire, that leaves a burn on the opponent. It lasts for 12%’s and a percent goes up every 2 seconds. It meanuevers quickly, with a sort of fluttery magic feel, like a leaf in the wind. Holding down A will allow you to choose exactly which way you cast this spell. The initial attack doesn’t do much damage.

A> Light Screen – Braixen howls, and quickly throws her hands out above her, leaving her wand perched in her tail. A yellow-clear wall expands from her hands, and pushes forward slightly. This initial push will knockback an opponent, if they’re close enough. The wall lasts for 25 seconds, and the opponent MUST jump over / under it. Projectiles are reflected back as well. One is allowed on the field at a time. If this move is used and there is a way to attack the bottom of the wall, you can shatter it. (No cheap ledge guarding allowed)

A^ Flame Charge – Braixen is engulfed in flames, and lunges horizontally in the sky. After the initial launch you can control her a bit. This has static/burn damage, but it’s not really an attack. It’s got decent length.

AV Fire Spin – The pyro-kinetic fox raises her wand into the air, and howls. Ropes of flames are released from the flame burning atop her wand, and eventually leave a circle of fire around her. This fire does not hurt her, and lasts 7 seconds and this is a decently large circle with moderately high flames.

Grabs are telekentic, and Smash moves are strong. They’re all based on Psystrike.

Geninja - Amphibious Ninja

A Double Team: When You push the a button, you’re going to click two directions. The first is going to be where the REAL Greninja appears. The second will be a clone. Incapable of attacking, merely there to confuse. The clone lasts only a few seconds, but long enough for the opponent to have to make a decision on which one to go after. Pushing up, will cause Greninja to hop upwards into the air, then you can go right or left as well. There is also the down direction which causes Greninja to stay put crouching. So, to execute this you would hold down A, click your first direction (which will be the real Greninja) then the second (which will be the clone), and then release to start the move. This is not an attack, merely a mix up move. (Think of Makato from BlazBlue)

A> Water Shuriken – Greninja brings his hands across his tongue, and on the edge of his fingers a water shuriken is forged. This is a fast moving, large projectile. It can only be thrown forward, but can be used while running.

A^ Feint Attack – A twinkle flashes in Greninja’s eyes, and before you know it, his now dark form jets with extreme speed forward, and the appears again in the air, horizontally from the point you were originally facing. He quickly slashes the air, which is a strong attack, and then falls helplessly towards the ground.

AV Hydro Pump – A supermassive blast of water shoots out from in front of Greninja. This move takes a long time to execute, but it’s really strong. It can be aimed anyway, and when used in the air it has a backwards push like Mewtwo’s shadow ball. This move isn’t an attack so much as a super strong version of Flood. Only useful. The pump of water rockets the away. The more percentage the opponent has, the longer it takes for the opponent to have a chance to somehow escape it.

Greninja’s grabs are varied. His forward is his tongue, his downwards is a ninja take on Snake’s, and when executing his upward grap, he tosses the opponent into the air, and water shuriken’s them in the back.
 
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AncientTobacco

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I'd like to see a different Pokemon Trainer for the sole reason of getting rid of the Gen 1 overrepresentation.

Or maybe just cut him entirely and add a new solo Pokemon rep like Zoroark.
 
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Never really understood the "Gen 1 overrepresentation" bull**** people spout.

Yeah, most of the Pokémon characters that are in Smash are from the original Red and Green. So what? All of them are significant for one reason or another (except Ivysaur, but that's just part of a package).

It's like arguing that we have too many Mario characters from the 80s and need to replace them with characters that debuted post Y2K.
 

OptimistNic

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I personally want to see Keldeo in the game in the form of the newcomer Pokemon character.




Not only would he be a unique blend of the sword, physical, and projectile attackers, he also has a great setup already: he trained with the other Sacred Swordsmen (Poke Balls?), defeated all of them, and ran off, right? Well maybe he ran off to search for stronger opponents, hence the Smash crew (ideally Marth, Link, and the other sword-wielders). He also has JUST the right kind of personality to warrant being a playable character, always wanting to challenge foes to a battle (as evidenced by the film he stars in).

He could use the water from his hooves to recover and deal a couple medium-range attacks (similar to R.O.B.'s down-air and back-air). His Final Smash? Even easier, the Resolute Form which would buff him and increase his sword range. It's also a fun way of getting Vic Mignogna in the game seeing as how he voiced Keldeo in the film.
I do see how this would be a problem, as some animations, like grabbing, would be tough to implement (I figure he'd just bite though).

Who thinks this is a good or, at the very least, intriguing idea? I would go on but I run the risk of sounding fanfic-y with my suggestions for attacks. And I have seen some REEEAAAALLLYYY ****ty fan-wiki suggestions.
 
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UltimateWario

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Never really understood the "Gen 1 overrepresentation" bull**** people spout.

Yeah, most of the Pokémon characters that are in Smash are from the original Red and Green. So what? All of them are significant for one reason or another (except Ivysaur, but that's just part of a package).

It's like arguing that we have too many Mario characters from the 80s and need to replace them with characters that debuted post Y2K.
Not to mention that, to non-Pokemon fans, Gen I is by far the most popular and well-known generation. It's not even the fact that Sakurai is bent on representing Gen I, it's just that Kanto is the only region with so many iconic and massively popular Pokemon. Sakurai isn't going to put in less-popular and fairly unknown Pokemon over ones that tons of people like just for the sake of representing more Gens.

Hell, when I first saw Lucario, I had no idea who he was (as I'd fallen out of the Pokemon loop at the time). My first thought was, "The **** is this ****?" and quickly learned that this was our new Mewtwo. :urg: So that's me, a massive Nintendo fan, unable to recognize even the most prolific of later-gen Pokemon. You have to take that kind of thing in consideration.
 
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Baskerville

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It's pretty much impossible to balance out gen representation for characters without losing something anyway.
 

Gune

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Never really understood the "Gen 1 overrepresentation" bull**** people spout.

Yeah, most of the Pokémon characters that are in Smash are from the original Red and Green. So what? All of them are significant for one reason or another (except Ivysaur, but that's just part of a package).

It's like arguing that we have too many Mario characters from the 80s and need to replace them with characters that debuted post Y2K.
I think people just want other generations other than the first to be recognized especially since we now have 6 generations all of which are unique and enthralling and seems like a shame to ignore them but thence again these guys are the best representation of pokemon as a whole.
 

Arcanir

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As a Pokemon fan, I love the newer generations and I would love to have more representation from that side of the franchise, but the thing to remember is that they're still characters. They have to carry a good amount of popularity, prominence and uniqueness to get into Smash and at the end of the day the Kanto Pokemon fill that criteria the most. They're the ones the general populace is familiar with, the ones many will recognize upon seeing and above all, the most popular of the franchise so they get noticed more over their future companions. To top it off, Game Freak has started to move away from completely promoting the new and focusing on the old, with XY playing like a love letter to Kanto, so that emphasis is even more present then it was before.

Personally, I do wish that the newer generations got more recognition then they do, especially since now we're at 6 generations of Pokemon, but Gen 1 will always be the most prominent in influence and thus will probably get the most attention. Hopefully we'll have more examples like Lucario though who break through that trap and prove that they can match the Gen 1 Pokemon in terms of recognition.
 
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Staarih

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Pokémon is a toughie in the way that it's really more of a popularity thing rather than uniqueness. Even if Sakurai were to focus on characters being unique this time, he couldn't just choose a random Pokémon of the hundreds we have just because it could be unique, no, it needs to have an "image", recognizability and popularity as well. And surely it is obvious that the very first generation is the most well known generation of Pokémon with probably the most popular Pokémon overall, so it's easy to focus on that when thinking of Pokémon representation. However, me as another avid Pokémon fan, would love to see recognition of the newer generations as well, but there aren't many newer Pokémon who are on the level of representing Pokémon as a whole. Lucario has really skyrocketed to the level of being an icon. But if I had to choose a new Pokémon to be included, I'd pick Zoroark. It certainly has the uniqueness factor to it. Popularity-wise it's not that high up, but still higher than most Pokémon. And being in Smash 4 could give it the boost it needs to slowly climb the ladder of reaching the same spot as Lucario. But I may be a bit biased haha...

But I guess this discussion started with Pkmn Trainer's Pokémon. As much as I'd like to see some switching around there (bar Charizard), I don't think it'll happen seeing as the Kanto starters are as relevant as ever right now.
 
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IsmaR

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I personally want to see Keldeo in the game in the form of the newcomer Pokemon character.

Not only would he be a unique blend of the sword, physical, and projectile attackers, he also has a great setup already: he trained with the other Sacred Swordsmen (Poke Balls?), defeated all of them, and ran off, right? Well maybe he ran off to search for stronger opponents, hence the Smash crew (ideally Marth, Link, and the other sword-wielders). He also has JUST the right kind of personality to warrant being a playable character, always wanting to challenge foes to a battle (as evidenced by the film he stars in).

He could use the water from his hooves to recover and deal a couple medium-range attacks (similar to R.O.B.'s down-air and back-air). His Final Smash? Even easier, the Resolute Form which would buff him and increase his sword range. It's also a fun way of getting Vic Mignogna in the game seeing as how he voiced Keldeo in the film.
I do see how this would be a problem, as some animations, like grabbing, would be tough to implement (I figure he'd just bite though).

Who thinks this is a good or, at the very least, intriguing idea? I would go on but I run the risk of sounding fanfic-y with my suggestions for attacks. And I have seen some REEEAAAALLLYYY ****ty fan-wiki suggestions.
The ideal Pokemon Swordsman would be this.

 

Bowserlick

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The solution is obvious. Smash Pokemon. Twenty-five characters. Eighteen pure types. Doit. DoitNOW!
 

IsmaR

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Not to veer off topic, but I do think a mode that allowed Pokeball Pokemon to duke it out would be great in Smash.

Would also save the roster space, let everyone's 'favorite reps' be playable in some forme, etc.
 

OptimistNic

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Pokémon is a toughie in the way that it's really more of a popularity thing rather than uniqueness. Even if Sakurai were to focus on characters being unique this time, he couldn't just choose a random Pokémon of the hundreds we have just because it could be unique, no, it needs to have an "image", recognizability and popularity as well. And surely it is obvious that the very first generation is the most well known generation of Pokémon with probably the most popular Pokémon overall, so it's easy to focus on that when thinking of Pokémon representation. However, me as another avid Pokémon fan, would love to see recognition of the newer generations as well, but there aren't many newer Pokémon who are on the level of representing Pokémon as a whole. Lucario has really skyrocketed to the level of being an icon. But if I had to choose a new Pokémon to be included, I'd pick Zoroark. It certainly has the uniqueness factor to it. Popularity-wise it's not that high up, but still higher than most Pokémon. And being in Smash 4 could give it the boost it needs to slowly climb the ladder of reaching the same spot as Lucario. But I may be a bit biased haha...

But I guess this discussion started with Pkmn Trainer's Pokémon. As much as I'd like to see some switching around there (bar Charizard), I don't think it'll happen seeing as the Kanto starters are as relevant as ever right now.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think they would go out of their way to deliberately include ONLY Gen I Pokémon. They have to appeal to every generation of Pokémon fans, old and new. The majority of Pokémon characters are already Gen I, so they need to spread out by giving a spotlight on some new characters. Not to promote the franchise as a whole, but rather the evolution of it.

The ideal Pokemon Swordsman would be this.

Maybe Honedge will be a retrievable Pokémon, ala Bonsly in Brawl.
 
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JamesDNaux

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Not to veer off topic, but I do think a mode that allowed Pokeball Pokemon to duke it out would be great in Smash.

Would also save the roster space, let everyone's 'favorite reps' be playable in some forme, etc.
They already have that mode, it's called playing a Pokemon game. :troll:
 

Bowserlick

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DLC should be every pokemon for the pokeball item. They can release them in Generation packages and Type packages. Now there is a money-maker.
 
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