Character Discussion Thread

[Wintropy]

If he was awful in power and speed on the ground and flinched very easily, then it wouldn't feel like Ridley. Ridley is pretty much fearsome in every area whether it be on ground or air.

With Dastardly's example, it wouldn't feel right and natural if Ridley was easy to kill as Jigglypuff.

Says who? Who deemed you the universal authority to judge what "feels" right for a character?

Pit can't fly in canon, but he can in Smash. That doesn't "feel" like Pit.

Palutena's a nigh-omnipotent deity, she's a low-tier hero in Smash. That doesn't "feel" like Palutena,

Luigi is a cowardly lion, not a schizophrenic clown. That doesn't "feel" like Luigi.

R.O.B. is a toy, not a weaponised automaton. That doesn't "feel" like R.O.B.

I think it'd "feel" perfectly fine if Ridley was easy to launch to mitigate his power and speed. He's among the smallest and scrawniest of Metroid's bosses, not to mention the fact that Samus routinely makes mincemeat of him when they fight: it's hardly a stretch to believe that what is essentially a winged skeleton would be batted around by, say, a muscular racer punching it at Mach 2 or a giant ape slamming their head against it.

They are kind of insurmountable when character portrayal is also in mind.

I think now it's not so much about the moves that prevent Ridley's inclusion, but rather the physical traits. (speed, power, weight are some examples of traits) A few occasion out-of-place moves are fine for creative liberty, but messing with their traits and capabilities for the sake of balance wouldn't Ridley feel and play right, as the traits greatly contribute to the character and their playstyle.

Now you're just making things up. There's very little evidence to suggest Ridley is the enormous hulk you make him out to be, especially considering the aforementioned fact that he is a skeletal husk covered in sinew and scales. He's lithe, sure, and very strong, but there's nothing to suggest he'd have to be a musclebound bruiser. I'd argue it'd be more out of character to depict him as such, since flying is one of his most defining traits.

Even if that were the case, though, there are plenty - mark you, plenty - of examples in Smash where a character's "traits" don't depict them exactly as they are in the game. In keeping with your logic, Ike should be a lightning bruiser, rather than a heavy brute; Ganondorf should be floating around and tower over half the cast, rather than jogging and flexing his glutes; Olimar, Kirby, Dedede and Meta-Knight should be mere inches tall, if even that, and should be crushed underfoot by a regular-sized individual; Bowser should be invulnerable to everything except stray fireballs and inconvenient stage hazards.

You're not convincing me with these arguments. You're just conjuring up nonsensical criteria with no evidential justification, and it doesn't work to make your case.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh wow. An actual thread for characters. Hey dere! Wanted to post in Takamaru thread but locked Q.Q

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have no argument left if this is how it's going to be, explaining it further would make my brain explode.

The only thing I can tell you really is that you should try to make a moveset for Ridley, try to make him the fearsome recognizable Ridley he is while also making him balanced, you're going to end up in a loophole. BaganSmashBros's Project M Ridley portrayed him really well giving him the agility and power to make him feel satisfying to play as, but in return he is one of the most broken character mods out there.

 

[Wintropy]

I have no argument left if this is how it's going to be, explaining it further would make my brain explode.

The only thing I can tell you really is that you should try to make a moveset for Ridley, try to make him the fearsome recognizable Ridley he is while also making him balanced, you're going to end up in a loophole. BaganSmashBros's Project M Ridley portrayed him really well giving him the agility and power to make him feel satisfying to play as, but in return he is one of the most broken character mods out there.

I've already done that a long time ago. Got very good feedback, too.

Your move. :3

 

[BluePikmin11]

I've already done that a long time ago. Got very good feedback, too.

Your move. :3

Where is the moveset.

 

[False Sense]

I have no argument left if this is how it's going to be, explaining it further would make my brain explode.

The only thing I can tell you really is that you should try to make a moveset for Ridley, try to make him the fearsome recognizable Ridley he is while also making him balanced, you're going to end up in a loophole. BaganSmashBros's Project M Ridley portrayed him really well giving him the agility and power to make him feel satisfying to play as, but in return he is one of the most broken character mods out there.

But the thing is, it hardly even matters to begin with.

We already have plenty of characters who aren't as "fearsome" as they were in their original games (), so why is Ridley the exception?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I have no argument left if this is how it's going to be, explaining it further would make my brain explode.

The only thing I can tell you really is that you should try to make a moveset for Ridley, try to make him the fearsome recognizable Ridley he is while also making him balanced, you're going to end up in a loophole. BaganSmashBros's Project M Ridley portrayed him really well giving him the agility and power to make him feel satisfying to play as, but in return he is one of the most broken character mods out there.

Actually Bagan's patched it, it's more balanced now, and unlike Sakurai, he plans on balancing it again if necessary

 

[Kenith]

Bagan's mod isn't really broken, though. They've been working hard to keep him balanced the whole time.
According to pretty much everyone in that thread, he is overpowered. In fact, I've heard some clamouring for buffs.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I have no argument left if this is how it's going to be, explaining it further would make my brain explode.

The only thing I can tell you really is that you should try to make a moveset for Ridley, try to make him the fearsome recognizable Ridley he is while also making him balanced, you're going to end up in a loophole. BaganSmashBros's Project M Ridley portrayed him really well giving him the agility and power to make him feel satisfying to play as, but in return he is one of the most broken character mods out there.

Her arguments can't be...well...er...argued against. She has a point.

...Have you ever seen half of Brawl Vault's PSAs? Not saying it says that my mod is very balanced, but your statement is false.

 

[N3ON]

Everyone knows Luigi is a schizophrenic clown Wintropy.

Apart from that, the bottom line is Sakurai doesn't find Ridley feasible, so people rush to support that decision and that mentality.

If Sakurai had included Ridley they'd be rushing to support that decision just as emphatically.

That's how most of the fanbase seems to work. At least when it comes to the roster. Gameplay is a different story.

If it should come to pass that Sakurai abdicates directorial duties next Smash and someone else takes the helm and chooses the roster, and it comprises Ridley, they'll end up eating their words. At least most of them will. Or they'll brush it under the carpet.

Really it should come as no surprise that divisive characters get bashed until they make it in, when like 90% of the detractors suddenly fall mute or jump ship to the other side. People might berate those who begrudge potential characters even after they've made it in, but at least they stick to their guns instead of turning on a dime.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually, when I think Ridley, size never comes up, more like, evil, brutal, vicious, threat. Ridley should have real hurty looking throws, not too hard to imagine really

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Everyone knows Luigi is a schizophrenic clown Wintropy.

Apart from that, the bottom line is Sakurai doesn't find Ridley feasible, so people rush to support that decision and that mentality.

If Sakurai had included Ridley they'd be rushing to support that decision just as emphatically.

That's how most of the fanbase seems to work. At least when it comes to the roster. Gameplay is a different story.

If it should come to pass that Sakurai abdicates directorial duties next Smash and someone else takes the helm and chooses the roster, and it comprises Ridley, they'll end up eating their words. At least most of them will. Or they'll brush it under the carpet.

Really it should come as no surprise that divisive characters get bashed until they make it in, when like 90% of the detractors suddenly fall mute or jump ship to the other side. People might berate those who begrudge potential characters even after they've made it in, but at least they stick to their guns instead of turning on a dime.

*coughRosalinacoughWolfcoughLittleMaccough*
Yeah, and thats something i hate.

 

[Arcadenik]

Really it should come as no surprise that divisive characters get bashed until they make it in, when like 90% of the detractors suddenly fall mute or jump ship to the other side. People might berate those who begrudge potential characters even after they've made it in, but at least they stick to their guns instead of turning on a dime.

That's true... that's what happened after got in.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's true... that's what happened after got in.

I still hate him...Then again, I'm unsatisfied with the final roster as a whole

 

[Arcadenik]

I still hate him...Then again, I'm unsatisfied with the final roster as a whole

Then you stuck to your guns... and I am still sticking to mine.

 

[False Sense]

That's true... that's what happened after got in.

And .

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Then you stuck to your guns... and I am still sticking to mine.

As much as I hate him, I have to admit, that's a pretty ****ing creative moveset. Hate the campy playstyle though

And .

I still see 'muh Toad' and 'muh Chrom' being thrown around. 'muh Mewtwo' obviously stopped

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I still see 'muh Toad' and 'muh Chrom' being thrown around. 'muh Mewtwo' obviously stopped

Isn't "muh Roy" an issue as well?

 

[IsmaR]

I find it funny post-Melee, Wolf was clamored for both because Melee intro left much to be desired, and the fact that Falco was apparently supposed to be Wolf, but changed because he looked too much like Fox.

Fast forward to now with Dark Pit and Wolf being cut, and apparently the Wolf model being made of papemaché for the taunt codecs, and "being too similar" becomes a near funny aneurysm.

 

[N3ON]

*coughRosalinacoughWolfcoughLittleMaccough*
Yeah, and thats something i hate.

Pretty much, though I don't recall Mac ever being that divisive. Sure there were people here and there who said "all he can do is punch!" but they were treated basically the same way as those who say "too many sword-wielders!".

That's true... that's what happened after got in.

To be fair Villager was mostly Sakurai's doing. iirc there were a fair amount of people who could envision Villager or Nook working fine in Smash, they just didn't expect them.

I suppose it's not dissimilar to Ridley.

As much as I hate him, I have to admit, that's a pretty ****ing creative moveset. Hate the campy playstyle though

But that's what you do when you hunt for ducks.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Isn't "muh Roy" an issue as well?

That's Lucina

 

[Wintropy]

Where is the moveset.

Ask and ye shall receive~

See bottom of post. :3

Everyone knows Luigi is a schizophrenic clown Wintropy.

"I knew joke once.

Man goes to doctor, says he's depressed. World feels cold and harsh.

Doctor says, "The great clown Pagliacci is in town, go see him. Should cheer you up."

Man bursts into tears.

"But doctor," he says, "I am Pagliacci!"

Good joke. Everybody laughs.

Roll snare drums."

God I'd play him if he was.

Apart from that, the bottom line is Sakurai doesn't find Ridley feasible, so people rush to support that decision and that mentality.

If Sakurai had included Ridley they'd be rushing to support that decision just as emphatically.

That's how most of the fanbase seems to work. At least when it comes to the roster. Gameplay is a different story.

If it should come to pass that Sakurai abdicates directorial duties next Smash and someone else takes the helm and chooses the roster, and it comprises Ridley, they'll end up eating their words. At least most of them will. Or they'll brush it under the carpet.

Really it should come as no surprise that divisive characters get bashed until they make it in, when like 90% of the detractors suddenly fall mute or jump ship to the other side. People might berate those who begrudge potential characters even after they've made it in, but at least they stick to their guns instead of turning on a dime.

This is very true. Well said as always, my friend.

EDIT: Here's the full sheet if you can't load the .txt file~

Spoiler

RIDLEY

"RIDLEY SCALES UP!"

The dastardly leader of the Space Pirates make his glorious return! Ridley is a ferociously feral fighter, wielding his powerful claws, talons, teeth and tail to his advantage - woe betide anybody that dares stand in the way of his speed and power! Of course, such talent has to come at a price, and while he is a swift and deadly hunter, he lacks stamina and isn't able to take much damage before being launched. As well as that, he lacks ground-based ability, as he is not particularly fast on the land and is unable to take maximum advantage of his natural weapons in this state. As a result, his true power emerges in the air: foes of the great Soace Pirates' leader will be shocked and astounded to see him taking to the skies and unleashing hell from above! His airgame is truly phenomenal, with rending claws and white-hot plasma breath bombarding anybody beneath him, and superior recovery allowing him to return from even the deadliest of blows. Note also that his recovery activates a special "flight meter" that will gradually deplete as he stays airborne, and he's even easier to launch while flying. Prey of the great lord Ridley beware, for the hunter has become the hunted.

* NEUTRAL SPECIAL - PLASMA BREATH *

Shoot white-hot blasts of plasma to scorch the earth. The blasts emerge as large fireballs and travel straight ahead until they come into contact with another entity. Can be aimed diagonally upwards or downwards for maximum range

- CUSTOM 1 - PLASMA BEAM -

Fireballs become white-hot beams of plasma. Can be held for extended durations for prolonged damage, but is much weaker and has much less knockback

- CUSTOM 2 - PLASMA TORCH -

Fireballs are launched and travel much faster, but they are weaker and do less knockback

* SIDE SPECIAL - RENDING CLAWS *

Cleave the wretched land-walkers with gruesome claws. Swipes straight ahead, deadling moderate damage and knockback. The true potential of this move is realised when it is used directly in front of an opponent - doing so will grab the opponent in a deadly grapple, from which they can be slashed at again or thrown to the ground with merciless force. On the ground, it is not particularly useful - it can also be used in mid-air, though, and doing so will open up a lot of potential for aerial comboes and intense finishers

- CUSTOM 1 - RENDING TALONS -

Cleave opponents with your talons instead. Because of the lower tracjectory, it is much less potent on the ground, but is useful for grabbing opponents from above

- CUSTOM 2 - RENDING SWEEP -

After grabbing opponents, touching any surface will do prolonged damage. They cannot be thrown using this move

* UP SPECIAL - WICKED WINGS *

Spread your wicked wings and soar through the skies. When activated, wings are spread wide and you can fly into the air at will. Whilst active, moving will enable you to hover through the air as you see fit - special moves can still be used in mid-air, so bear this in mind for maximum aerial chaos! The "flight meter" above the character profile will activate during this time, and flight can be sustained as long as there is power in the meter. Weight is further decreased while flying, so it's even easier to be launched while this move is active

- CUSTOM 1 - PLASMA WINGS -

Wings become coated in white-hot plasma, damaging anything they touch, but flight duration is halved

- CUSTOM 2 - SOARING WINGS -

Flight duration is 1.5 times as long, but special moves cannot be used while flying, making it better suited for recovery instead

* DOWN SPECIAL - STINGER STRIKE *

Impale the inferior specimens with the wicked tail blade. The tail blade will launch ahead and strike directly ahead, doing minor damage and knockback. When used in mid -air, the tail blade will strike directly below and can be aimed at will. Use it to target foes from above and strike them when they least

expect it!

- CUSTOM 1 - PLASMA STRIKE -

Tail blade becomes coated in white-hot plasma, adding increased fire damage and great knockback, but distance traveled is halved

- CUSTOM 2 - GRAPPLING STRIKE -

Tail blade grabs opponents when struck, allowing them to be thrown at will, but the tail blade itself does no damage

* FINAL SMASH - OMEGA RIDLEY *

The corruptive power of Phazon awakens to unleash Ridley's true potential! When activated, Ridley transforms into Omega Ridley, receiving a powerful boost to all stats and new abilities as well. Damage is knockback is negated under the aegis of termporary invulnerability and flight becomes unlimited. Neutral B becomes a potent Phazon blast that functions as a much stronger variation of the regular move - hold it down to release its energy as a searing beam of pure corruption! The transformation lasts for about thirty seconds before returning to normal

Jab - Claws
Combo - Claw (combo)
Side smash - Plasma breath
Up smash - Plasma sweep
Down smash - Wing strike
Dash - Wing rush
Side tilt - Elbow rush
Up tilt - Headbutt
Down tilt - Tail whip
Regular air - Air claws
Front air - Air wings
Back air - Air tail
Up air - Air teeth
Down air - Air talons
Grab - Grappling claws
Pummel - Sweeping claws
Front throw - Stinger impale
Back throw - Stinger crash
Up throw - Plasma launcher
Down throw - Sweeping talons

Up taunt - Throws head back and roars
Side taunt - Spreads wings and snarls
Down taunt - Swoops back and forth while shrieking fearsomely

Entrance

Swoops in and touches down with wings spread

Victory

Victory 1 - Throws head back unto the skies and roars triumphantly
Victory 2 - Releases a powerful shriek and moves to turn away from the camera
Victory 3 - Screams menacingly and takes off into the skies

Colours / Costumes

Purple (Ridley)
Black (Meta Ridley)
Red (Super Metroid boxart)
Green (Zero Mission)
Blue (Fusion)
Indigo (Original Metroid)
Dark green (Kraid)
Pink (Mother Brain)

Kirby hat

Pointed snout and cranial spines

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

That's Lucina

With out teh Ph1re!

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, can't blame Sakurai for making DHD a campy fighter... he is a hunting dog... and to be a good hunter, one has to camp a lot.

 

[Kenith]

Really it should come as no surprise that divisive characters get bashed until they make it in, when like 90% of the detractors suddenly fall mute or jump ship to the other side. People might berate those who begrudge potential characters even after they've made it in, but at least they stick to their guns instead of turning on a dime.

Glad I'm not one of those people!
I still think Dark Pit and Mii Fighters are stupid!

 

[BKupa666]

Ganondorf should be floating around and tower over half the cast, rather than jogging and flexing his glutes

rather than jogging and flexing his glutes

jogging and flexing his glutes

flexing his glutes

glutes

Spoiler

Stupid sexy Falcondorf.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ask and ye shall receive~

See bottom of post. :3



"I knew joke once.

Man goes to doctor, says he's depressed. World feels cold and harsh.

Doctor says, "The great clown Pagliacci is in town, go see him. Should cheer you up."

Man bursts into tears.

"But doctor," he says, "I am Pagliacci!"

Good joke. Everybody laughs.

Roll snare drums."

God I'd play him if he was.



This is very true. Well said as always, my friend.

'can not load file' crie frytiem
I've made some movesets in the past, BDee, Marx, Isaac, K.Rool, General RAAM, Magikarp, Dark Souls protagonist and Quote. Last ones were requests

 

[N3ON]

Well, can't blame Sakurai for making DHD a campy fighter... he is a hunting dog... and to be a good hunter, one has to camp a lot.

Sure go ahead and take my joke.

Glad I'm not one of those people!
I still think Dark Pit and Mii Fighters are stupid!

Yeah. Me too. Though I do admit that the Miis have every right to be there.

 

[Arcadenik]

Pretty much, though I don't recall Mac ever being that divisive. Sure there were people here and there who said "all he can do is punch!" but they were treated basically the same way as those who say "too many sword-wielders!".


To be fair Villager was mostly Sakurai's doing. iirc there were a fair amount of people who could envision Villager or Nook working fine in Smash, they just didn't expect them.

I suppose it's not dissimilar to Ridley.


But that's what you do when you hunt for ducks.

Isn't it weird how the opposite happened to after she got in?

She was the most-wanted female newcomer for SSB4... and now that she's in, people are bashing her.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What pisses me off about Dark Pit is the same as Ganondorf, wasted potential, I know the clones were last minute, but I really wanted the Claws to be used in Smash

 

[BaganSmashBros]

With out teh Ph1re!

Or any real differences outside of no tippers and few things like taunts.

*moveset*

I think that few things here are ridicolous like "Plasma Wings" and "Plasma Strike" (Ridley can shoot fireballs, stream of fire and plasma beam, but thats where his powers anyhow related to fire end), but other than that, its ok.

Isn't it weird how the opposite happened to after she got in?
She was the most-wanted female newcomer for SSB4... and now that she's in, people are bashing her.

You know, even Ganondorf would be bashed if he would be a newcommer in all of his Brawl "glory".

What pisses me off about Dark Pit is the same as Ganondorf, wasted potential, I know the clones were last minute, but I really wanted the Claws to be used in Smash

There's that, but nothing would change the fact that he is "Black Pit" visually. Thats just as boring as having Evil Ryu playable as a separate character.

 

[N3ON]

Isn't it weird how the opposite happened to after she got in?

She was the most-wanted female newcomer for SSB4... and now that she's in, people are bashing her.

I don't like how she was implemented either, so I can't really blame them.

"I knew joke once.

Man goes to doctor, says he's depressed. World feels cold and harsh.

Doctor says, "The great clown Pagliacci is in town, go see him. Should cheer you up."

Man bursts into tears.

"But doctor," he says, "I am Pagliacci!"

Good joke. Everybody laughs.

Roll snare drums."

God I'd play him if he was.

If that doesn't remind you of Luigi I don't know what will.

Especially since the doctor would be Mario. ;D

This is very true. Well said as always, my friend.

Thanks!

 

[Kenith]

Yeah. Me too. Though I do admit that the Miis have every right to be there.

Yeah...but the three generic movesets they have that can't even be used online really aren't doing it for me.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah...but the three generic movesets they have that can't even be used online really aren't doing it for me.

Even if they were treated like every other character it still wouldn't do it for me considering all I wanted out of the Miis was a new enemy for multi-man Smash.

Though I do have to say the spirit of the Mii was captured pretty well for Smash, since customization is pretty much the key aspect of the Mii. Sakurai is good at capturing the spirit of characters. Though ofc that came with giving them a lot more work than most characters probably got, which kinda sucks, since most people probably wouldn't have had a problem with it being used elsewhere instead.

What pisses me off about Dark Pit is the same as Ganondorf, wasted potential, I know the clones were last minute, but I really wanted the Claws to be used in Smash

Unlike Ganondorf though, Dark Pit probably wouldn't have ever become playable unless he was a clone.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't like how she was implemented either, so I can't really blame them.

I love the A moves but I felt that some of her B moves (including the default ones) were ineffective.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Even if they were treated like every other character it still wouldn't do it for me considering all I wanted out of the Miis was a new enemy for multi-man Smash.

Though I do have to say the spirit of the Mii was captured pretty well for Smash, since customization is pretty much the key aspect of the Mii. Sakurai is good at capturing the spirit of characters. Though ofc that came with giving them a lot more work than most characters probably got, which kinda sucks, since most people probably wouldn't have had a problem with it being used elsewhere instead.


Unlike Ganondorf though, Dark Pit probably wouldn't have ever become playable unless he was a clone.

I disagree, KI Uprising has about 8 weapon classes, Pit uses 3 of them, Dark Pit's official artwork makes everyone cringe as he uses this: Dark Pit Staff. By the logic of same weapons same moveset, I'd like an explanation for Marth and Ike too

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I disagree, KI Uprising has about 8 weapon classes, Pit uses 3 of them, Dark Pit's official artwork makes everyone cringe as he uses this: Dark Pit Staff. By the logic of same weapons same moveset, I'd like an explanation for Marth and Ike too

I don't think that was the point. Ganondorf was included because, well, its f***ing Ganondorf. Dark Pit was included because they had 5 extra minutes. If more time would be available, it wouldn't be spent on him unless Sakurai really is that biased.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't think that was the point. Ganondorf was included because, well, its f***ing Ganondorf. Dark Pit was included because they had 5 extra minutes. If more time would be available, it wouldn't be spent on him unless Sakurai really is that biased.

Alph could have been a clone and was more deserving, Sakurai said "LOL NOPE MAH BABY"

 

[Kenith]

Even if they were treated like every other character it still wouldn't do it for me considering all I wanted out of the Miis was a new enemy for multi-man Smash.
Though I do have to say the spirit of the Mii was captured pretty well for Smash, since customization is pretty much the key aspect of the Mii. Sakurai is good at capturing the spirit of characters. Though ofc that came with giving them a lot more work than most characters probably got, which kinda sucks, since most people probably wouldn't have had a problem with it being used elsewhere instead.

Well, I mean, yeah, but it seems like they were an inevitability.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Alph could have been a clone and was more deserving, Sakurai said "LOL NOPE MAH BABY"

Olimar is too complex of a character design to make a proper clone out of.

Possible? Sure. But hard. Dark Pit wasn't.