Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

I believe the Pit boards have Matchup threads for that

Whoops, Il go check it out

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Use a ground type.

But Isaac isn't playable

 

[Deleted member]

Use a ground type.

Charizard has earthquake(down smash) lol

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Use a ground type. Flying is no good.

Or Psychic...
...that still works, right?

 

[N3ON]

Or Psychic...
...that still works, right?

Psychic is good against everything, everyone knows that.

That's why Mewtwo was so good in Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

Or Psychic...
Only ground is super effective on electric

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Psychic is good against everything, everyone knows that.

That's why Mewtwo was so good in Melee.

>Melee Mewtwo
>good
...Yeah, right. Probably for the same reason he had the best wavedash.

Only ground is super effective on electric

Doesn't matters when Psychics are pretty much god-tiers.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

No Zelda Wii U this year, nor will it be shown off at E3 (check the Nintendo America Twitter page for proof).

It's going to be a while longer before we can speculate what characters in the game could be in Smash.

 

[PSIBoy]

Yeah, I don't really like adding clones for padding purposes unless their gameplay actually are different from the original counterparts... like Toon Link, Lucas, and Wolf...

Wolf is a clone of Meta Knight and Lucas is a clone of Mewtwo because of their similar d-smashes .

This is coming from someone who mained two and used a third, and my conclusion is: they play different. You will not get the same results playing Wolf like Fox. If you're going to argue that they play similarly on the most basic level, I would argue that is only really applicable to Toon Link due to their movesets being almost identical in Brawl and Smash 4, but even then I hate using Link even though I main Toon Link: He's too clunky. This I observed several months before I joined Smashboards. Don't bother about Lucas and Wolf: they have no identical attacks. I could argue that Lucas and Wolf don't even constitute as a semi-clones. Really, it's only because of their similar specials (which really in practice only PK Thunder, PSI Magnet, Fire Wolf, and Reflector are anything alike outside animation) that people are calling them clones. Please don't make me write an entire essay on this: I already have one to do over my break.

Oh, and Lucas was confirmed a year before Brawl released and way before Ness, just saying.

Edit: Also, forgot about speed, size, weight, jump, and fall speed. Yes, Lucas is similar to Ness in all regards except dash and air speed, which he is faster, but Wolf only really has jump and fall speed similar if I recall correctly. Weight Wolf is significantly heavier than Fox. I'm sure in dash he's noticeably slower than Fox and I think he's also shorter than him since he's hunched over. Toon Link is also much faster, much smaller, and much lighter than Link, though I haven't tested jump and fall speeds.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Oh wow. An actual thread for characters. Hey dere! Wanted to post in Takamaru thread but locked Q.Q

Don't worry, I'll send you an invitation later so that you can join the Murasame Slayer clan later. Same goes for anyone else who wants to improve the samurai's fate for his future.

 

[Dinoman96]

>Melee Mewtwo
>good

>greentexting outside of 4chan

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here we go again. Lucas and Wolf are NOT clones. All of their main attacks are different. now that I have gotten that out of the way, I will agree that Toon Link and Gannondorf play completely different than their moveset buddies Link and Captian Falcon. And I will even go as far as to say that Gannondorf is a semi clone (or maybe even his own character with the different attack animations he has.) They both deserve their spots in the roster.
Now for a character that I think should be in. (pauses for dramatic effect) Martha Stewart! Just kidding. (I don't even know where I pulled that name from) I actually want the Boy and Blob from A Boy and his Blob. Likley? No. Super freaking awesome? Yes.

 

[Dinoman96]

Lucas and Wolf definitely aren't clones, but that being said, I think it's safe to say that weren't exactly build from scratch like Wario or Dedede were. Sakurai most likely used Fox and Ness as bases for the characters and build on them from there. From what I heard, apparently Lucas was originally a pure Ness clone, but the devs had enough time to give him new animations and attributes. I guess that's where some of the stigma comes from.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That makes me wonder. was this the case for Lucario? Was he meant to be a clone, but then they had an idea, and ran with it? I doubt it but it's possible.

 

[Dinoman96]

That makes me wonder. was this the case for Lucario? Was he meant to be a clone, but then they had an idea, and ran with it? I doubt it but it's possible.

I highly doubt that. While Wolf and Lucas were unique for the most part, there are still aspects of their designs that make it somewhat obvious they were based on other characters at some point during their development, namely, ALL of their specials and their final smashes being variations of Fox's and Ness's.

Lucario on the other hand basically shares only one kinda somewhat similar special with Mewtwo and that's it. ExtremeSpeed, Force Palm, and Double Team are practically nothing like Teleport, Confusion or Disable. He also had a completely unique mechanic no one else had in Brawl (the aura), so I'd say even more work went in for him than Lucas and Wolf.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sorry it took too long to respond, I had busy things to do.

Spoiler

RIDLEY

"RIDLEY SCALES UP!"

The dastardly leader of the Space Pirates make his glorious return! Ridley is a ferociously feral fighter, wielding his powerful claws, talons, teeth and tail to his advantage - woe betide anybody that dares stand in the way of his speed and power! Of course, such talent has to come at a price, and while he is a swift and deadly hunter, he lacks stamina and isn't able to take much damage before being launched. As well as that, he lacks ground-based ability, as he is not particularly fast on the land and is unable to take maximum advantage of his natural weapons in this state. As a result, his true power emerges in the air: foes of the great Space Pirates' leader will be shocked and astounded to see him taking to the skies and unleashing hell from above! His airgame is truly phenomenal, with rending claws and white-hot plasma breath bombarding anybody beneath him, and superior recovery allowing him to return from even the deadliest of blows. Note also that his recovery activates a special "flight meter" that will gradually deplete as he stays airborne, and he's even easier to launch while flying. Prey of the great lord Ridley beware, for the hunter has become the hunted.

* NEUTRAL SPECIAL - PLASMA BREATH *

Shoot white-hot blasts of plasma to scorch the earth. The blasts emerge as large fireballs and travel straight ahead until they come into contact with another entity. Can be aimed diagonally upwards or downwards for maximum range

- CUSTOM 1 - PLASMA BEAM -

Fireballs become white-hot beams of plasma. Can be held for extended durations for prolonged damage, but is much weaker and has much less knockback

- CUSTOM 2 - PLASMA TORCH -

Fireballs are launched and travel much faster, but they are weaker and do less knockback

* SIDE SPECIAL - RENDING CLAWS *

Cleave the wretched land-walkers with gruesome claws. Swipes straight ahead, deadling moderate damage and knockback. The true potential of this move is realised when it is used directly in front of an opponent - doing so will grab the opponent in a deadly grapple, from which they can be slashed at again or thrown to the ground with merciless force. On the ground, it is not particularly useful - it can also be used in mid-air, though, and doing so will open up a lot of potential for aerial comboes and intense finishers

- CUSTOM 1 - RENDING TALONS -

Cleave opponents with your talons instead. Because of the lower tracjectory, it is much less potent on the ground, but is useful for grabbing opponents from above

- CUSTOM 2 - RENDING SWEEP -

After grabbing opponents, touching any surface will do prolonged damage. They cannot be thrown using this move

* UP SPECIAL - WICKED WINGS *

Spread your wicked wings and soar through the skies. When activated, wings are spread wide and you can fly into the air at will. Whilst active, moving will enable you to hover through the air as you see fit - special moves can still be used in mid-air, so bear this in mind for maximum aerial chaos! The "flight meter" above the character profile will activate during this time, and flight can be sustained as long as there is power in the meter. Weight is further decreased while flying, so it's even easier to be launched while this move is active

- CUSTOM 1 - PLASMA WINGS -

Wings become coated in white-hot plasma, damaging anything they touch, but flight duration is halved

- CUSTOM 2 - SOARING WINGS -

Flight duration is 1.5 times as long, but special moves cannot be used while flying, making it better suited for recovery instead

* DOWN SPECIAL - STINGER STRIKE *

Impale the inferior specimens with the wicked tail blade. The tail blade will launch ahead and strike directly ahead, doing minor damage and knockback. When used in mid -air, the tail blade will strike directly below and can be aimed at will. Use it to target foes from above and strike them when they least

expect it!

- CUSTOM 1 - PLASMA STRIKE -

Tail blade becomes coated in white-hot plasma, adding increased fire damage and great knockback, but distance traveled is halved

- CUSTOM 2 - GRAPPLING STRIKE -

Tail blade grabs opponents when struck, allowing them to be thrown at will, but the tail blade itself does no damage

* FINAL SMASH - OMEGA RIDLEY *

The corruptive power of Phazon awakens to unleash Ridley's true potential! When activated, Ridley transforms into Omega Ridley, receiving a powerful boost to all stats and new abilities as well. Damage is knockback is negated under the aegis of termporary invulnerability and flight becomes unlimited. Neutral B becomes a potent Phazon blast that functions as a much stronger variation of the regular move - hold it down to release its energy as a searing beam of pure corruption! The transformation lasts for about thirty seconds before returning to normal

Jab - Claws
Combo - Claw (combo)
Side smash - Plasma breath
Up smash - Plasma sweep
Down smash - Wing strike
Dash - Wing rush
Side tilt - Elbow rush
Up tilt - Headbutt
Down tilt - Tail whip
Regular air - Air claws
Front air - Air wings
Back air - Air tail
Up air - Air teeth
Down air - Air talons
Grab - Grappling claws
Pummel - Sweeping claws
Front throw - Stinger impale
Back throw - Stinger crash
Up throw - Plasma launcher
Down throw - Sweeping talons

Up taunt - Throws head back and roars
Side taunt - Spreads wings and snarls
Down taunt - Swoops back and forth while shrieking fearsomely

Entrance

Swoops in and touches down with wings spread

Victory

Victory 1 - Throws head back unto the skies and roars triumphantly
Victory 2 - Releases a powerful shriek and moves to turn away from the camera
Victory 3 - Screams menacingly and takes off into the skies

Colours / Costumes

Purple (Ridley)
Black (Meta Ridley)
Red (Super Metroid boxart)
Green (Zero Mission)
Blue (Fusion)
Indigo (Original Metroid)
Dark green (Kraid)
Pink (Mother Brain)

Kirby hat

Pointed snout and cranial spines

It would've been nice if you had more description with his normals and smashes and his stats more, does he have lots of melee range covered like Bagan's Ridley?
I will admit the flight meter is a pretty clever idea, if he's going to have so much power and range in the air, he should permanently not be able to fly with his wings burnt and have lack-luckster agility, speed, and jump until he's KO'd. Though it goes back to the same thing, it would be kinda weird for a boss like Ridley to tire out easily after a while.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Sorry it took too long to respond, I had busy things to do.

It would've been nice if you had more description with his normals and smashes and his stats more, does he have lots of melee range covered like Bagan's Ridley?
I will admit the flight meter is a pretty clever idea, if he's going to have so much power and range in the air, he should permanently not be able to fly with his wings burnt and have lack-luckster agility, speed, and jump until he's KO'd. Though it goes back to the same thing, it would be kinda weird for a boss like Ridley to tire out easily after a while.

So now ridley is entirely infatiguable.

Just like kirby flys forever in smash right?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Entirely unweary until he runs out of with his meter.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Entirely unweary until he runs out of with his meter.

Sounds sort of like a specific custom

Changing things for the sake of BALANCE is fun.

 

[Deleted member]

Why limit flight to a Special when you can just make him fly in the same manner as you can make Peach float or winged characters glide in Brawl?

Or, for an even better example, like Mewtwo's hover in P:M (with the same free directional movement mechanic).

Since the idea of a "flight meter" is brought up, that can be further expanded to a Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters Melee-styled energy meter that ties to both his ability to fly and his Kinetic Breath Weapon (which is quite similar to the monsters' beam weapons).

Wow, grammar escapes me tonight.

 

[False Sense]

Why limit flight to a Special when you can just make him fly in the same manner as you can make Peach float or winged characters glide in Brawl?

Or, for an even better example, like Mewtwo's hover in P:M (with the same free directional movement mechanic).

Since the idea of a "flight meter" is brought up, that can be further expand it to Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters Melee-styled energy meter that ties to both his ability to fly and his Kinetic Breath Weapon (which is quite similar to the monsters' beam weapons).

Totally irrelevant, but I loved that game as a kid.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Why limit flight to a Special when you can just make him fly in the same manner as you can make Peach float or winged characters glide in Brawl?

Or, for an even better example, like Mewtwo's hover in P:M (with the same free directional movement mechanic).

Since the idea of a "flight meter" is brought up, that can be further expanded to a Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters Melee-styled energy meter that ties to both his ability to fly and his Kinetic Breath Weapon (which is quite similar to the monsters' beam weapons).

Wow, grammar escapes me tonight.

That could work well enough. To that, i think MvC3 kind of flight mode aerial dashes (at the cost of some of that energy) would also be nice to have, but just having flight meter is enough.

 

[RoseyBetch]

I have a question regarding StairFax characters. I know the majority of people want Wolf back as DLC, but what about any newcomers for Smash 5? Is Krystal likely to happen?

 

[N3ON]

I have a question regarding StairFax characters. I know the majority of people want Wolf back as DLC, but what about any newcomers for Smash 5? Is Krystal likely to happen?

STAIRFAX

If she appears in SF Wii U there's a decent chance. She's already got the popularity, the potential, and the importance in the series (relatively speaking), all she needs is the recent appearance Smash seems to value so much nowadays, which I suspect will still matter for Smash 5.

Ofc we might just get Wolf back instead. And if she doesn't show up in any games between now and Smash 5 I can't imagine she'll stand much of a chance.

 

[RoseyBetch]

STAIRFAX

If she appears in SF Wii U there's a decent chance. She's already got the popularity, the potential, and the importance in the series (relatively speaking), all she needs is the recent appearance Smash seems to value so much nowadays, which I suspect will still matter for Smash 5.

Ofc we might just get Wolf back instead. And if she doesn't show up in any games between now and Smash 5 I can't imagine she'll stand much of a chance.

But like, if they both show up in StrairFaxz U, then do you think it's likely we could get both? After all, we got two Mario character we didn't really NEED (I love them nonetheless).

 

[BaganSmashBros]

But like, if they both show up in StrairFaxz U, then do you think it's likely we could get both? After all, we got two Mario character we didn't really NEED (I love them nonetheless).

Don't use Mario franchise as an example. Its friggin' Mario, franchise with highest sales out of all video game franchises as far as i remember. Its f***ing 700+ millions sales is far above than any other franchise's. Closest thing ot it is Pokemon with 200+ millions. StartFix is nothing compared to it. So, its more of an exception than an example. Same probably goes for Pokemon (i mean that its an exception).

 

[N3ON]

But like, if they both show up in StrairFaxz U, then do you think it's likely we could get both? After all, we got two Mario character we didn't really NEED (I love them nonetheless).

Sure it's possible but I don't know how likely it is. It's not a situation that will even present itself for probably half a decade, it's too early to do anything but guess and a lot can happen in that time. It could very well depend on the stature of the SF series at that time. It was pretty dead when the roster was being made this time and got two. FE on the other hand was kicking and got four. So who knows.

I wouldn't really compare it to Mario though. For one it's Mario, Stairfax is nowhere near that level. Second, the only reason we might get both is because Wolf is a vet, if they were both newcomers I'd definitely not expect it.

 

[FalKoopa]

I have a question regarding StairFax characters. I know the majority of people want Wolf back as DLC, but what about any newcomers for Smash 5? Is Krystal likely to happen?

Depends on what role Krystal gets in Star Fox U. Hard to say before that.

 

[RoseyBetch]

Depends on what role Krystal gets in Star Fox U. Hard to say before that.

Let's hope she's one of the pilots in the new StrayFekcx. I rully liek Krystal.

 

[pupNapoleon]

A thought just occured to me. let's say sakurai thinks toad, captain or otherwise, isn't battle reaady. Now mario, being the flagship series, is basically allowed to have as many "reps" as it wants. Plus they are guaranteed to sell

If that leak is real, it's possible paper mario will become the most "relavent" mario character to be available for smash. . .

I love how the bgi argument for Jumpman being unnecessary was that he is Mario.
Guess what? Paper Mario is Mario.

The play mechanics from Donkey Kong are quite different from Super Mario, particularly the fragility that came with most older games, where one hit and you die.

It would be nice to see Jumpman step in for this whole era of gaming.

*no specific reason I'm quoting you above others, Btw.

No, three isn't enough!!! We need ten Marios!

Mario
Dr. Mario
Paper Mario
Baby Mario
Tanooki Mario
Chef Mario
Mario & Luigi
Mario & Yoshi
Mario & Luma
Jumpman

Funny; that's still more variety than two Mother protagonists.

 

[IsmaR]

I have a question regarding StairFax characters. I know the majority of people want Wolf back as DLC, but what about any newcomers for Smash 5? Is Krystal likely to happen?

I say the trend will continue.

By next game, we'll be down to just Fax.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I say the trend will continue.

By next game, we'll be down to just Fax.

And by 20XX, there will be only Fox, no items and only Omega stages.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Here's a relatively little used topic of discussion, a remade Pokemon Trainer.

I could see him using a small Pokemon similarly to Luma, he could summon Pokemon to do his special moves too.

His standard attacks would be Air-Mac weak without his Pokemon buddy's help.

Not really wild about this idea to be honest.

Just comes off as a way to shoehorn Pokémon Trainer back into the game.
Dangerously similar to the notion of shoehorning Young Link back into the game by making him transform using masks for attacks.

I agree, to an extent.
I want Pokemon Trainer to come back and actually represent what Pokemon Trainers do, which is, to have a moveset based around his Pokeballs.

There are all sorts of ideas this could utilize, from simple traps in the 'ball, to being able to 'summon' other characters to you by 'calling them back' after catching them.

That is, in fact, the essence of the main Pokemon games- and I think it captures the spirit of it more so than simply having Pokemon.

To be honest, I think Ganon will remain as Ganondorf's Final Smash.

I'd say that he's on the same boat as Giga Bowser, Giga Mac or Mega Evolutions, considering that he is a much stronger form of Ganondorf.

At the very least, if Ganondorf gets a redesign in a future game, he could get something closer to the classic design and be controllable. Though, as it currently is, the Final Smash is a pretty faithful adaptation of the Ganon boss battle in Twilight Princess.

Ganondorf transforms into Ganon, charges forward and, once reaching the blast line, teleports back to where he executed the move, reverting to Ganondorf as well. Originally, Ganon would charge towards Link and teleport around the stage from time to time, so they pretty much incorporated Ganon's abilities in Twilight Princess in one super move.

My initial theory on Ganon is that he would not have ever made it in, had not a weaker form in the name of Dorf revealed itself, with a 'perfect body type' engine, for the creators to use; otherwise, I think trying to hone down the force that is Ganon would have been seem as daunting and, just, too much, including too big. I explained my stance on this a bit more in depth in the leaks group; we don't have any bad guys that feel intangibly too much (sorry Porky, Mother Brain, Andross).

The issue with "Pig Ganon" continues with the fact that he is supposed to be a better, more powerful version of Ganondorf. I think the most ridiculous thing in the roster would be to have two characters play "balanced" when one is supposed to be the enhanced version of the other.

Ridley's not even that heavy. Or that big. He's fast and strong and can fly, in addition to plasma breath, claws, talons and a prehensile stinger-equipped tail. But he's not a heavyweight brute.

That may sound imbalanced on paper, but that's to wantonly overlook the fact that there are plenty of other characters that are similarly balanced in Smash whilst staying "true to character".

Enormous brute that's almost always invulnerable to everything except external forces (lava pits, explosive mines, etc)
Can fly indefinitely in addition to everything else he can already do
Is literally a deity
Can potentially be fast, powerful, accurate and have damn good luck
Nigh-indestructible, can and does obliterate planets on a regular basis
The fastest thing alive, should logically be ripping through opponents like they're tissue paper
Can KO enemies with a single hit (PK Flash)
Fast, strong, has access to a near-infinite repertoire of powers, can crush enemies with a single jump
Super strong, super fast, super durable, super handsome...what can't he do?

I'll leave aside such characters as DK and Ganondorf since their "true to character" depiction is sketchy, but that's still a pretty solid list of characters whose innate powers have been balanced to fit into Smash. Arguing that Ridley is "unbalanced" because he's fast, strong and can fly is just looking for reasons to be spiteful.

He's almost never shown fighting on the ground, and for good reason: he sucks at it. So make him the anti-Mac, or a bigger and scarier Jigglypuff: awful on the ground, a terror in the air. Make him a glass cannon, fast and strong, but he breaks with a single punch.

None of this is new. Claiming "it won't work because reasons" isn't a sufficient validation for why he shouldn't appear. Offer alternative perspectives. Determine how to resolve these issues rather than seeing them as insurmountable stumbling blocks.



Now you're just parroting Sakurai to prove your point.

Almost nobody in Smash is portrayed with absolute accuracy, and I will provide a detailed list if you would like me to.

I agree with you, there is no reason Ridley would not be balanced. An obvious thing- make him superweak to projectiles. I mean, in Metroid...

I think his massive size would work to benefit as well, in terms of uniqueness. His wings could be in the depth of the stage, and his speed- well, perhaps he could have a move that literally transports him across the stage, to a player, and attacks them weakly? Somewhat like the Flash in his DC fighting games via Ed Boon- his 'super speed' is used in power up tidbits.

*double*

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I agree with you, there is no reason Ridley would not be balanced. An obvious thing- make him superweak to projectiles. I mean, in Metroid...

I think his massive size would work to benefit as well, in terms of uniqueness. His wings could be in the depth of the stage, and his speed- well, perhaps he could have a move that literally transports him across the stage, to a player, and attacks them weakly? Somewhat like the Flash in his DC fighting games via Ed Boon- his 'super speed' is used in power up tidbits.

*double*

Not just projectiles. He would also have to be one of the largest characters, so, he would be easy to hit.

Nah, that would be broken because then he would have no troubles with getting close to opponent and would also make any movement pointless outside of this attack and just getting away from opponent. And speed isn't exactly what he is known for at least on the ground. Its Sonic's thing. On the ground, Ridley is more like SSB Ganondorf - he hits very hard, his attacks come out quickly (not as in "barely any start up" and more like he swings whatever part he uses quickly), but have noticable end lag on them. This is going by his Metroid Prime 1 (second phase), Metroid Prime 3 (Omega Ridley fight, before final phase) and Other M (entire fight) boss fights. Mostly Other M because here, he is fighting on the ground for 90% of the fight and its the only example of normal Ridley fighting on the ground, without any extra things like Kinetic Breath Weapon, weird electric cages, tail beams, etc.

 

[RoseyBetch]

I say the trend will continue.

By next game, we'll be down to just Fax.

Not cap'n Flacon D:

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Wolf I believe has the most chance as DLC, and Krystal can be justified in a Star Fox X Smash Bros DLC Pack - I put the idea forward on the Krystal Thread, which probably needs an update such as a supporters list and stuff like that... But do you think they'll tackle Smash Bros DLC in packs the same way as Mario Kart 8 and Hyrule Warriors?

 

[Baskerville]

Psychic is good against everything, everyone knows that.

That's why Mewtwo was so good in Melee.

Ha
Hahaha...
Please let him be good this time. I'll use him regardless but still. ;_;

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Eh, all I really want other than balance changes to Mewtwo is a new DSmash

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Don't worry, I'll send you an invitation later so that you can join the Murasame Slayer clan later. Same goes for anyone else who wants to improve the samurai's fate for his future.

Oh oh! Me! Me!

OT: Mewtwo needs more psychic attacks and less tail attacks.
UAir: Bends a spoon with his magick, hitting opponents.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

But like, if they both show up in StrairFaxz U, then do you think it's likely we could get both?

No, regadless of whether or not Krystal comes back (which to be fair wouldn't be surprising)

.
Funny; that's still more variety than two Mother protagonists.

....You did not just go there.