Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

Ganon has been and always will be my most wanted Zelda character. Fixes my issues with Falcondorf, having a trident wielder would be awesome, gives 2 versions of each main LoZ character, and unlike almost all other possible Zelda characters, he's actually consistently important to the series.

Spoiler

Larger, yes. Considerably? Not really. Wouldn't require much more scaling down then Ganondorf did.

Yes. Considerably.

Ganon even dwarfs Bowser when you compare where he stands to Mario.

 

[Kenith]

Yes. Considerably.

It doesn't matter that much if Ganon is really tall. Especially if he's wide like that.

The reason Ridley is not included isn't about his sheer size; that's been disproven to death.
It's about his proportions. Ridley would an extremely awkward fighter because of how he's built, not because of size. As Sakurai said, if Ridley was included he would "not be able to fly around freely".

Ganon, on the other hand, would fit perfectly fine downscaled to heavyweight size and height; he even has several melee attacks used against Link that demonstrate this, particularly in A Link Between Worlds.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Yes. Considerably.

Ganon even dwarfs Bowser when you compare where he stands to Mario.
View attachment 44412

Great, now think that Nintendo loves making the antagonists of their A-list and B-list IP's big thanks to this image.

Inb4 the Final Boss of Splatoon is a giant Octoling King.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah. If Ridley was in smash it would look like his growth was stunted at 2 months of age. However, Gannon would look proportionate enough that he would look fine in ssb4. Poor Ridley already looks underweight, scaling him down would make him skin, bones, and nothing else.

 

[Kenith]

Unless, of course, they used a highly modified version of his Other M model like Bagan's PM Ridley mod, which, regardless of what anybody says, looks fantastic for what it is.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah. If Ridley was in smash it would look like his growth was stunted at 2 months of age. However, Gannon would look proportionate enough that he would look fine in ssb4. Poor Ridley already looks underweight, scaling him down would make him skin, bones, and nothing else.

They really need to make Ridley's stance like Super Metroid... where Ridley is always crouching no matter what he is doing... crouching while running (kinda like Bowser's old Melee/Brawl running animation) and crouching while flying... and he only attacks with his tail... this way, it would give Ridley the illusion that he's proportionate.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yes. Considerably.

Ganon even dwarfs Bowser when you compare where he stands to Mario.
View attachment 44412

Are we talking about size comparisons?


I thought that war is over?

Sakurai really does have a height limit for smash (ofcoarse the new guy might be different since sakurai is claiming smash 4 is his last smash game.)

 

[Arcadenik]

Changing subjects back to Sakurai's past considerations... so these are the characters Sakurai has considered or planned to include in Smash... correct?

Considered but rejected...

• Balloon Fighter (likely never happening thanks to Villager taking Balloon Fighter's main shtick)
• Bubbles
• Excitebiker
• Urban Champion
• Sukapon (don't expect him to get in... according to Sakurai)
• Takamaru (never getting in unless he gets a new game and it is international... according to Sakurai)
• Ayumi Tachibana
• Nintendog (probably never happening since we have the Duck Hunt Dog)
• Chrom

Planned but scrapped...

• Dixie Kong
• Toon Zelda
• Toon Sheik
• pra_mai (which might or might not be Plusle & Minun)
• Ridley (I guess?)

Unknown...

• Chorus Kids

 

[Kalimdori]

Yes. Considerably.

Ganon even dwarfs Bowser when you compare where he stands to Mario.
View attachment 44412

I do not think you could have picked a worse picture then that to support your argument

You picked just about the shortest incarnation of Bowser in existence for that comparison, one that's even shorter then the one in Smash Bros.

Not to mention that incarnation of Ganon is just a bit taller then Ganondorf in Twilight Princess.

But this doesn't even matter, as resizing isn't what bothers Sakurai, it's changing characters designs, something you made very clear to distinguish a few dozen pages ago in regards to Ridley. Sakurai would simply need to make Ganon about 3/4 his canonical size, no design changes required.

 

[Kenith]

Changing subjects back to Sakurai's past considerations... so these are the characters Sakurai has considered or planned to include in Smash... correct?

Considered but rejected...

• Balloon Fighter (likely never happening thanks to Villager taking Balloon Fighter's main shtick)
• Bubbles
• Excitebiker
• Urban Champion
• Sukapon (don't expect him to get in... according to Sakurai)
• Takamaru (never getting in unless he gets a new game and it is international... according to Sakurai)
• Ayumi Tachibana
• Nintendog (probably never happening since we have the Duck Hunt Dog)
• Chrom

Planned but scrapped...

• Dixie Kong
• Toon Zelda
• Toon Sheik
• pra_mai (which might or might not be Plusle & Minun)
• Ridley (I guess?)

Unknown...

• Chorus Kids

Of these, Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda/Tetra, Ridley, Takamaru, and Excitebike make me the most sad.
All of them would be great additions.

 

[Substitution]

Why are we talking about Ridley again? I'm just saying it's gets a tad redundant seeing the same size argument over and over again.

Changing subjects back to Sakurai's past considerations... so these are the characters Sakurai has considered or planned to include in Smash... correct?

Considered but rejected...

• Balloon Fighter (likely never happening thanks to Villager taking Balloon Fighter's main shtick)
• Bubbles
• Excitebiker
• Urban Champion
• Sukapon (don't expect him to get in... according to Sakurai)
• Takamaru (never getting in unless he gets a new game and it is international... according to Sakurai)
• Ayumi Tachibana
• Nintendog (probably never happening since we have the Duck Hunt Dog)
• Chrom

Planned but scrapped...

• Dixie Kong
• Toon Zelda
• Toon Sheik
• pra_mai (which might or might not be Plusle & Minun)
• Ridley (I guess?)

Unknown...

• Chorus Kids

Just curious, where did this whole "Ayumi Tachibana" thing come from? I've heard the name tossed around, but I don't know why.

 

[random rendum]

Are we talking about size comparisons?


I thought that war is over?

Sakurai really does have a height limit for smash (ofcoarse the new guy might be different since sakurai is claiming smash 4 is his last smash game.)

Sakurai always says that melee,and brawl he also said villager couldn't be in because of his innocence but hes in now

 

[random rendum]

sorry double post

 

[Arcadenik]

Why are we talking about Ridley again? I'm just saying it's gets a tad redundant seeing the same size argument over and over again.


Just curious, where did this whole "Ayumi Tachibana" thing come from? I've heard the name tossed around, but I don't know why.

Sakurai mentioned her name in a recent video... look for the video in her support thread.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Changing subjects back to Sakurai's past considerations... so these are the characters Sakurai has considered or planned to include in Smash... correct?

Considered but rejected...

• Balloon Fighter (likely never happening thanks to Villager taking Balloon Fighter's main shtick)
• Bubbles
• Excitebiker
• Urban Champion
• Sukapon (don't expect him to get in... according to Sakurai)
• Takamaru (never getting in unless he gets a new game and it is international... according to Sakurai)
• Ayumi Tachibana
• Nintendog (probably never happening since we have the Duck Hunt Dog)
• Chrom

Planned but scrapped...

• Dixie Kong
• Toon Zelda
• Toon Sheik
• pra_mai (which might or might not be Plusle & Minun)
• Ridley (I guess?)

Unknown...

• Chorus Kids

Im assumeing chorus kids is unknown, due to the data only said rythme heaven character?


Oh by the way for ridley.

Confession

Im accually a little suspicious did anybody take a picture of ridleys shadow?

Where im going is, is the shadow the same size as the april direct shadow?

 

[Arcadenik]

There's nothing suspicious about Ridley's shadow... Sakurai showed his shadow when he was talking about stage bosses... so in that context, he was hinting that Ridley is a stage boss but his fanatics whipped themselves into a frenzy over this hint they misinterpreted.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

There's nothing suspicious about Ridley's shadow... Sakurai showed his shadow when he was talking about stage bosses... so in that context, he was hinting that Ridley is a stage boss but his fanatics whipped themselves into a frenzy over this hint they misinterpreted.

Because of the question.

Why just a shadow?

Why coulden't they show ridleys whole body.

(I still killed me that i got sucked into that, the whole time my feelings were neutral on ridleys inclusion.)

And what i mean't was, if we took a picture of ridleys shadow today/whenever would it be the same size, as the april direct shadow?

 

[Substitution]

Because of the question.

Why just a shadow?

Why coulden't they show ridleys whole body.

(I still killed me that i got sucked into that, the whole time my feelings were neutral on ridleys inclusion.)

And what i mean't was, if we took a picture of ridleys shadow today/whenever would it be the same size, as the april direct shadow?

So what you're saying is that if the size of the shadow in the Direct is different than the one in Smash now, he still has a chance?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

So what you're saying is that if the size of the shadow in the Direct is different than the one in Smash now, he still has a chance?

No ridleys a boss in smash 4.

Im just curious if anybody took a picture of Ridleys, shadow ever since smash 4 for wii u came out.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Substitution Don't give him a straw.

 

[Substitution]

No ridleys a boss in smash 4.

Im just curious if anybody took a picture of Ridleys, shadow ever since smash 4 for wii u came out.

But is there any other reason apart from curiosity?

 

[Deleted member]

It doesn't matter that much if Ganon is really tall. Especially if he's wide like that.

The reason Ridley is not included isn't about his sheer size; that's been disproven to death.
It's about his proportions. Ridley would an extremely awkward fighter because of how he's built, not because of size. As Sakurai said, if Ridley was included he would "not be able to fly around freely".

Ganon, on the other hand, would fit perfectly fine downscaled to heavyweight size and height; he even has several melee attacks used against Link that demonstrate this, particularly in A Link Between Worlds.

You seem to be missing the point, even lecturing me about the proportions when I've already discussed that in my initial post about this.
It's not so much scaling Ganon down.
It's that Ganondorf was scaled down and is still one of the largest fighters in the game. Ignoring that Ganon's been established at a considerable size difference from his Gerudo state within Smash (and even then, compared to Link, even Ganon's been scaled down a bit when you compare these two images)

Spoiler

Ganon would need to be realistically much larger than Ganondorf while still being feasible. Which, for the most part wouldn't be too much of a problem, though that would require doing things like taking away his trident aside from maybe a Special Attack to limit his range, which defeats the main purpose of why you'd want Ganon in the first place.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Yeah, making Ganon only barely bigger than Ganondorf is about as weird as making Giga Bowser only barely bigger than regular Bowser. I think Ganon's head should at least be above Ganondorf's head for it to not look off, but that would be most likely be considered "too big" for the game.

 

[Kenith]

Wouldn't King K. Rool be about as tall as Pig Ganon?

Why is he not considered impossible?

Seriously, making him even a couple inches taller than Ganondorf is not really an issue.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Wouldn't King K. Rool be about as tall as Pig Ganon?

Why is he not considered impossible?

Seriously, making him even a couple inches taller than Ganondorf is not really an issue.

Well he is smaller in DKC 2 and 3 as well as Barrel Blast and Mario Sluggers

 

[JamesDNaux]

Wouldn't King K. Rool be about as tall as Pig Ganon?

Why is he not considered impossible?

Seriously, making him even a couple inches taller than Ganondorf is not really an issue.

Not even trying.

 

[Kenith]

Not even trying.

Oh, does King K. Rool have inconsistent sizes to fit whatever role he needs to in game?
So does every other antagonist.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Oh, does King K. Rool have inconsistent sizes to fit whatever role he needs to in game?
So does every other antagonist.

Are we remembering why size arguments are BS in the first place now?

 

[Deleted member]

I do not think you could have picked a worse picture then that to support your argument

You picked just about the shortest incarnation of Bowser in existence for that comparison, one that's even shorter then the one in Smash Bros.

You laugh, yet you completely fail to understand the meaning of the picture; that's Bowser's natural size (and it's not shorter than in Smash, what in the Hell are you smoking?).

That image is from an official size comparison chart for the Mario cast by Nintendo. Whenever Bowser's bigger than that, he's sized himself up whether its with an outside power source (mainly for his kaiju-like sizes) or through biological means (adrenaline, eating meat, etc.). There are even points where he'll just gradually increase in size per boss fight in a single game.

But that size is where he officially stands.

Not to mention that incarnation of Ganon is just a bit taller then Ganondorf in Twilight Princess.

You're kidding me, right?
You seriously think that's only "a bit" taller than 7 ft 6.5 inches (Ganondorf's official height)? That's practically 11 ft tall.

But this doesn't even matter, as resizing isn't what bothers Sakurai, it's changing characters designs, something you made very clear to distinguish a few dozen pages ago in regards to Ridley. Sakurai would simply need to make Ganon about 3/4 his canonical size, no design changes required.

ONLY if "3/4 his canonical size" means "noticeably bigger than Ganondorf", because that's what's Ganon's supposed to be.

Wouldn't King K. Rool be about as tall as Pig Ganon?

Why is he not considered impossible?

Seriously, making him even a couple inches taller than Ganondorf is not really an issue.

Same game has DK and Diddy close to the same size as each other, when that's clearly not the case.
And later games would make it more clear that K. Rool is not supposed to be that big compared to DK, making the size gap between him and Diddy/Dixie shorter.

And DK 64 establishing his height to be DK's when upright with further games down the line barely altering this if they alter it at all.

....which actually is too "big" considering DK is already one of the largest fighters while hunched (and is the tallest character in the game on technicality), but bringing him down to Bowser's height isn't shaving off much. Unlike making what's supposed to be Ganondorf's giant bestial state into something only slightly taller than Ganondorf himself.


Enough of the false equivalence fallacies, Kenith.

 

[Kenith]

Are we remembering why size arguments are BS in the first place now?

Um...that's kinda the point?
I can understand why people wouldn't want one of our DLC newcomers being another version of an existing character...
You cannot convince me that a cartoony boar man is too large for Smash Bros. That's a ridiculous argument.

Yes, it might be weird seeing Ganondorf stand as tall as Ganon, but I think it's weird that female Robin is as tall as male Robin, when in their game female Robin is shorter.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Well the Kremling King popping up is definitely a refreshing change of pace.

I'm still optimistic that Retro is bringing him back in the next game, with all the recent happenings.

I wonder if, hypothetically speaking, Sakurai was making more DLC and he also happened to know that Retro were, hypothetically, bringing back the Krool reptile, what the odds would be that he'd add the King in anticipation.

He made it quite clear in that recent interview that he's well aware of characters we've been asking for, and K. Rool has always been up with Ridley, yet he wasn't made into a boss or anything besides a trophy. Makes one wonder...

 

[Deleted member]

You cannot convince me that a cartoony boar man is too large for Smash Bros. That's a ridiculous argument.

And you cannot convince me that the giant bestial state of a warlock who is already present himself ISN'T too large for Smash. That's a beyond ridiculous argument.

Yes, it might be weird seeing Ganondorf stand as tall as Ganon, but I think it's weird that female Robin is as tall as male Robin, when in their game female Robin is shorter.

"Gender counterparts of the same human character that are normally of differing heights are instead the same height for the sake of a costume, so it's perfectly justified for an evil wizard's giant porcine form to be the same height as his lesser humanoid state!"

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Just add Four Swords Adventures Ganon. They're different entities, so it's fine.

 

[Kenith]

Just add Four Swords Adventures Ganon. They're different entities, so it's fine.

Four Swords Adventures Ganon is probably the largest one, though.
Ultimately, though, I'm pretty certain that when differentiating Ganondorf and Ganon, the main difference is not that Ganon's bigger, it's that Ganon's a pig. With that in mind, having him slightly taller than Ganondorf, who is standing tall, while Ganon is hunched over, is completely fine.
I'm not continuing to argue this because I find it incredibly silly.

How about his moveset?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Four Swords Adventures Ganon is probably the largest one, though.
Ultimately, though, I'm pretty certain that when differentiating Ganondorf and Ganon, the main difference is not that Ganon's bigger, it's that Ganon's a pig. With that in mind, having him slightly taller than Ganondorf, who is standing tall, while Ganon is hunched over, is completely fine.
I'm not continuing to argue this because I find it incredibly silly.

How about his moveset?

Ganon is... not generally hunched over, though. Beast Ganon (he's really a boar, so he's still a pig) is on all fours, and OOT Ganon may arguably hunch over a bit (he's still gigantic). Otherwise Ganon is always standing upright in his Pig form, and that's the usual version of Ganon that's brought up.

 

[Diddy Kong]

There's nothing suspicious about Ridley's shadow... Sakurai showed his shadow when he was talking about stage bosses... so in that context, he was hinting that Ridley is a stage boss but his fanatics whipped themselves into a frenzy over this hint they misinterpreted.

This is what I was saying since the moment of that Direct. People hated me for it.

Also, am kind of opposed to Ganon as long as plays the way he does. Ideally, they could work togheter like / and / but the problem is 's moveset. He's already portraited as the slowest, strongest fighter of the roster and his moveset is still extremely uninspired. If they could have both Ganon and his human form in ways that actually represent the character better, then I'm all for it. Say, playing more as a magician () but Ganon becomes the weapon wielding powerhouse.

Anyway, the Zelda roster is a COMPLETE mess. 's moveset is forever deemed as terrible, doesn't appear anywhere in the main games anymore since 1998 and certainly doesn't "deserve" an own spot, is a clone with a lot of charm but not exactly what he could've been, is just... ugh. *taunts sword*

 

[Frostwraith]

To be honest, I think Ganon will remain as Ganondorf's Final Smash.

I'd say that he's on the same boat as Giga Bowser, Giga Mac or Mega Evolutions, considering that he is a much stronger form of Ganondorf.

At the very least, if Ganondorf gets a redesign in a future game, he could get something closer to the classic design and be controllable. Though, as it currently is, the Final Smash is a pretty faithful adaptation of the Ganon boss battle in Twilight Princess.

Ganondorf transforms into Ganon, charges forward and, once reaching the blast line, teleports back to where he executed the move, reverting to Ganondorf as well. Originally, Ganon would charge towards Link and teleport around the stage from time to time, so they pretty much incorporated Ganon's abilities in Twilight Princess in one super move.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

So what are we arguing about now?

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Zelda roster is a complete mess and Impa is it's only potential saving grace.

 

[Frostwraith]

This is what I was saying since the moment of that Direct. People hated me for it.

You weren't the only one. I defended that and warned about how likely that was.

Yet, people didn't listen.

It was all about context. Sakurai was talking about Yellow Devil, then he states about other similar bosses and it shows Ridley's shadow in Pyrosphere. Given the topic Sakurai was elaborating on, it was fairly obvious that, just like how Yellow Devil is the boss for Wily's Castle, Ridley would do that role in Pyrosphere.

The Zelda roster is a complete mess and Impa is it's only potential saving grace.

The Zelda roster is fine as it is.

And I say this as a Zelda fan who's played all but two of the games.