Character Discussion Thread

[Wintropy]

I don't think it would be a can of worms as long as it's wishful thinking.

You're right, sorry.

Make that "viper's nest"~ ;P

 

[Chandeelure]

The lack of Bomberman in your lists is deppresing.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If I could just mention, Link can't jump except for off cliffs in Zelda games, yet he jumps in Smash. His jumps aren't very good, probably to address something to that effect.

I think the idea of Captain Toad not jumping is just...a bad idea in terms of game design. Jumping is used for MANY different things in Smash. Taking it away from a character is just...not a good idea.

Make it so his jumping distance is like Little Mac level, and that should be okay. He was the worst jumping character in SMB2, so I think that would be a little better. I'll come up with some other ideas for his movese.t later (I love coming up with movesets!)

As users such as @FalKoopa have said, there are many implications of taking out a base ability of every Smash character. But I'll probably just get to that later. When I'm not on my lunch at work lol

 

[Diddy Kong]

How about a Captain Toad without his backpack? It seems such an easy sollution to me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I only think that Captain Toad and Toad are two seperate characters, thanks to this post confirmed by the Captain Toad developers:
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/replies/AYMHAAACAAADVHhqTRtYFw

By the way, Captain Toad is actually not the same Toad as the Toad who’s playable in games like Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario’s Woods

If he's going to get in, he's gotta keep getting successful games with multiple appearances. I don't think it's the time to add him when he's only in his baby steps to becoming an all-star.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Bomberman, Rayman, Banjo & Kazooie, Geno, Sir Arthur.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I still rationalize captain toad as the eggagerated exaggerated yoshi of toads. basically one character to embody the history of toads throughout the mario series. plus he is pretty coll himself

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

The lack of Bomberman in your lists is deppresing.

Let's face it: Hudson Soft already went out of business, so I'd say he's probably done for.

 

[Chandeelure]

How about a Captain Toad without his backpack? It seems such an easy sollution to me.

Captain Toad without his backpack would not be Captain Toad anymore.

Let's face it: Hudson Soft already went out of business, so I'd say he's probably done for.

And? It's a wishlist.

I don't even think we will have third party characters as DLC.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Captain Toad without his backpack would not be Captain Toad anymore.

And? It's a wishlist.

I don't even think we will have third party characters as DLC.

Then make it so that his backpack can be removed or something? It could give him extra weight, but no jumps, or he could jump around and be faster, but be lighter. That'd be a much more interessting concept than : Can't Jump The Character.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Supposing the option was presented to you to add any third-party / non-Nintendo-owned character of your choice.

Would you, and who would it be?

I actually don't really want anyone other than Rayman and Snake. Pac-Man is already in, so I don't have to worry about him.

If I had to make a list though..

1. Obvious pick is obvious.
2. Other obvious pick.
3. Sir Daniel Fortesque. For kicks.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

My two 3rd party characters are Snake and Rayman. Other than them, that's all really.

 

[Deleted member]

If I could just mention, Link can't jump except for off cliffs in Zelda games, yet he jumps in Smash. His jumps aren't very good, probably to address something to that effect.

It's been said before, but there's a huge difference between "has no button command to jump" and "literally cannot jump".


*cough* and then there's Zelda II, where jumping was a prominent aspect of gameplay *cough*

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

How about a Captain Toad without his backpack? It seems such an easy sollution to me.

It'd remove the ability to attack with it in his movset, which would be lame.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

1. Rayman
2. Simon Belmont
3. Black Mage
4. Ryu Haybusa
5. Shantae

 

[Diddy Kong]

It'd remove the ability to attack with it in his movset, which would be lame.

But the plus side would be more mobility.

Still 1000 x better than Can't Jump The Character.

 

[JamesDNaux]

But how fun would it be to jump around like Mario in a 3D Zelda game.


Link needs more platforming action.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Toad's backpack is only too heavy because its full of items. Personally I think he should be able to hold turnips in it, and when throwing them, his jumping and recovery improves. Its a simple concept, really. With it full he can try to jump but can barely get off the ground.


People keep taking this whole "cannot jump" thing way too seriously.

But how fun would it be to jump around like Mario in a 3D Zelda game.


Link needs more platforming action.

Zelda Wii U is the first game where I can legitimately see that as something which would be implemented, since its open world and walking on all types of terrain is a signature mechanic. I think its quite likely Link might be able to jump in Zelda Wii U.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Zelda Wii U is the first game where I can legitimately see that as something which would be implemented, since its open world and walking on all types of terrain is a signature mechanic. I think its quite likely Link might be able to jump in Zelda Wii U.

It's already looking to be my favorite Zelda game, but a jump button would seriously persuade me.

Of course, if it actually holds up once I play it.

 

[IsmaR]

I'm not seeing how any of this is a "real" issue.

Make Toad an amalgamation of all "playable" Toads, with both abilities specific to individual ones and available to the character in general.

Give him alts/costumes/what have you referring to more than just the specific Toad (hell, make him Toadsworth/Toadette while you're at it).

Don't get hung up on details like "Toad can't jump." Seriously, that's on the same level of dumb as Metroid can't crawl. Smash isn't canon.

Toad's backpack is only too heavy because its full of items. Personally I think he should be able to hold turnips in it, and when throwing them, his jumping and recovery improves. Its a simple concept, really. With it full he can try to jump but can barely get off the ground.


People keep taking this whole "cannot jump" thing way too seriously.

Hammerspace in general has never stopped characters with tons of items like Link or Villager. Backpack be damned, jumping with an Umbrella, Bowling Ball, Axe, Shovel and varying amounts of Turnips in your pocket, gravity is probably the least of your worries.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Seriously, that's on the same level of dumb as Metroid can't crawl.

But Metroid can't crawl in Smash.

I'm not sorry.

 

[Substitution]

I'm not seeing how any of this is a "real" issue.

Make Toad an amalgamation of all "playable" Toads, with both abilities specific to individual ones and available to the character in general.

Give him alts/costumes/what have you referring to more than just the specific Toad (hell, make him Toadsworth/Toadette while you're at it).

But if Sakurai doesn't, they're not special nor unique. And as we all know, characters that don't have their own identity have never gotten into Smash. At all.

 

[Kalimdori]

But if Sakurai doesn't, they're not special nor unique. And as we all know, characters that don't have their own identity have never gotten into Smash. At all.

Could you explain this a bit better? Because if you're simply claiming that a character has to have a specific "Identity" you are wrong, there are several characters in Smash that don't.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Still 1000 x better than Can't Jump The Character.

I'll give you that.

But how fun would it be to jump around like Mario in a 3D Zelda game.


Link needs more platforming action.

Link needs to put on that Mario mask that the Happy Mask Salesman has.

Toad's backpack is only too heavy because its full of items. Personally I think he should be able to hold turnips in it, and when throwing them, his jumping and recovery improves. Its a simple concept, really. With it full he can try to jump but can barely get off the ground.


People keep taking this whole "cannot jump" thing way too seriously.

So you get rewarded for projectile spamming? No thank you. All they need to do is say that Toad packed lightly. Doesn't really matter in the end though, plenty of characters break the canon of their games to perform certain abilities.

 

[Substitution]

Could you explain this a bit better? Because if you're simply claiming that a character has to have a specific "Identity" you are wrong, there are several characters in Smash that don't.

Well, it's easy. In order for Toad to be unique, it needs to be a specific kind of Toad. Because let's face it, what do they really have? Nothing. Because they're not special. Captain Toad on the other hand, is special. Because he's unique. And as such is better than just normal Toad.

And sure, we've gotten characters like the Pokemon who don't have an identity. But I'll ignore them because if I don't then my entire argument is shattered. And my opinion is always right.

 

[Bob Bills]

My most prioritized third party would be Snake, then Professor Layton, then Travis Touchdown Rayman.

 

[Kalimdori]

Well, it's easy. In order for Toad to be unique, it needs to be a specific kind of Toad. Because let's face it, what do they really have? Nothing. Because they're not special. Captain Toad on the other hand, is special. Because he's unique. And as such is better than just normal Toad.

And sure, we've gotten characters like the Pokemon who don't have an identity. But I'll ignore them because if I don't then my entire argument is shattered. And my opinion is always right.

The ones that came to my mind were ROB, Mr Game and Watch, and Yoshi, but the Pokemon work too!

EDIT: Oh. I passed 1000 posts. Yay me and stuff.

 

[JaidynReiman]

So you get rewarded for projectile spamming? No thank you. All they need to do is say that Toad packed lightly. Doesn't really matter in the end though, plenty of characters break the canon of their games to perform certain abilities.

But you can't spam it. You'll quickly run out and have to restock. Also, it'll make you go flying a lot further the less Toad is carrying.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't get hung up on details like "Toad can't jump." Seriously, that's on the same level of dumb as Metroid can't crawl. Smash isn't canon.

.....not one of your best examples, considering the whole "y cant metroid crawl" thing is only a meme (and Samus really doesn't crawl in Smash when not Zero Suit) while Captain Toad being unable to jump is a significant part of his identity.....

I think a better example would be this:

 

[Wintropy]

.....not one of your best examples, considering the whole "y cant metroid crawl" thing is only a meme (and Samus really doesn't crawl in Smash when not Zero Suit) while Captain Toad being unable to jump is a significant part of his identity.....

I think a better example would be this:

Pretty sure that's the joke.

She's saying it's silly because it doesn't mean anything, in the same way that "Why can't Metroid crawl?" is a meme with no significant merit. She's being satirical.

But yes, Sonic swimming is a good example.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure that's the joke.

She's saying it's silly because it doesn't mean anything, in the same way that "Why can't Metroid crawl?" is a meme with no significant merit. She's being satirical.

But yes, Sonic swimming is a good example.

My point still stands that the situations aren't exactly comparable enough to label them in a similar manner.
One is a gag, the other actually means something based on relevant information.

 

[Wintropy]

My point still stands that the situations aren't exactly comparable enough to label them in a similar manner.
One is a gag, the other actually means something based on relevant information.

Yes and no.

Yes that you can't compare a jocular witticism with a legitimate criticism.

No because the origins of said legitimate criticism are so pointedly arbitrary that it's hardly worth dignifying in the first place.

Lots of characters in Smash do things that they can't do in their own games. It's canon that Captain Toad can jump, he just doesn't in Treasure Tracker because of the weight of his backpack.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I really don't think this is worth the debate whatsoever. Captain Toad is Captain Toad. Smash is Smash. Captain Toad in Smash would work differently from how he works in Captain Toad.

Here are some of my ideas for a Captain Toad moveset (some of these i've seen other people mention as well):

>make his light stun opponents when used (See Mewtwo's disable from Melee)
>could use a mine cart as a side special to close the gap on opponents
>could throw stuff out of his bag to become lighter

One of my own ideas I thought of earlier: He can dig up Gems (up to 3 at one time) and store them in his backpack. He's slower and can't jump as high with all three, but they're powerful projectiles that he can use. As a recovery, give him the charged jump from SMB2.

I'm sure there's other stuff that he could do, but that's just scratching the surface. I'll probably have more ideas soon.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I'm fully supportive of that one idea someone stated a page or so ago about Jump Blocks appearing under C. Toad's feet whenever he would "jump".

So technically, he can't himself jump, but he can still function as any other character would.

 

[Wintropy]

Honestly, I'm fully supportive of that one idea someone stated a page or so ago about Jump Blocks appearing under C. Toad's feet whenever he would "jump".

So technically, he can't himself jump, but he can still function as any other character would.

How would that affect his airgame, though? Would the block act as an extension of his hitbox, would it be a solid object in its own right? Would it be intangible and "not exist" for the purpose of damage sustained? How would he perform a n-air or d-air if there's a block underneath him?

It's a cute idea, but it still sounds unnecessarily complicated.

 

[Deleted member]

How would that affect his airgame, though? Would the block act as an extension of his hitbox, would it be a solid object in its own right? Would it be intangible and "not exist" for the purpose of damage sustained? How would he perform a n-air or d-air if there's a block underneath him?

It's a cute idea, but it still sounds unnecessarily complicated.

The block would just appear and disappear in a flash.

Nothing more than part of his jumping animation.

 

[Wintropy]

The block would just appear and disappear in a flash.

Nothing more than part of his jumping animation.

I don't know. I still feel like it would alter his properties somewhat to have a foreign body appear during his jump animation, even if it's not for anything more than a frame.

Thing is, we don't have any character to compare extended jump animations to. For all I know, it could work fine, and I'm just dwelling too much on it.

But I think that, more rationally, we're all dwelling too much on the notion that it really matters.

 

[Chandeelure]

Jump Blocks? That sounds really stupid and complicated.

 

[Deleted member]

There's nothing complicated about it. Just a quick flash of something that would give logical reason to why Captain Toad, who is defined by his lack of an ability to jump, is suddenly able to jump just like the sparkles on Ness' feet that hoist him up for his midair jump.

As for stupid, it isn't any more stupid than making Captain Toad naturally able to jump with the backpack on regardless of any justification ("the load's lighter", "who cares, Smash isn't canon", etc.).




Otherwise, the only reasonable solution is to go with Diddy's idea and just have him not have the backpack on while fighting.
Instead, have him pull it out to use for a Special or something.

 

[Wintropy]

This is such an arbitrary and pointless debate. I'm sorry, but we are literally arguing over whether a character should be able to jump or not.

Captain Toad doesn't jump for purely technical reasons in his native game. Even the manual explains that it's because of the weight of his backpack (a similar reason is offered in Smash to explain Doc's weight difference to Mario, to wit: his heavy lab coat weighs him down).

There are countless examples in Smash of characters who can't do things, very simple things, for gameplay reasons. I am baffled as to why this is necessarily the exception.

Marth, Ike, Robin and Lucina can only attack once or twice of their own accord, and then can't attack unless they're attacked fist.

Pikachu can't do anything unless he's specifically commanded to by his / her Trainer.

Sonic can't swim.

Palutena can only use her Powers a limited number of times.

Mario can only throw fireballs with the aid of a Fire Flower.

Yoshi has to swallow enemies before throwing eggs.

And so forth.

So why is it a big deal that Captain Toad shouldn't be able to jump?

It's a throwaway gag intended as a coy vindication of a very simple gameplay mechanic. Are we reduced to literally justifying why a character can't perform one of the most fundamentally basic options in Smash?