Character Discussion Thread

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I just beat classic mode on 9.0 difficulty.....the struggle was real....

How does the community here feel about Master Core?

Did you do it without loosing a life?

 

[Will]

I just beat classic mode on 9.0 difficulty.....the struggle was real....

How does the community here feel about Master Core?

Game Theory

Your inability to read caused something.

Seriously, read before you brag.

I never really was good in comprehension courses.
Also,can I not? I know I'm kind of risking that question with a moderator,but it's how I work. I'm made to not do things I'm told to do.
Finally,brag.
Eh,the boastfulness is in there,that's given.

Tragic villain

Should I? I'll get criticized,more likely.
Eh,screw it.

I don't remember the movie (or spin-offs [good job brain] ) being related to Mewtwo being a villain.

 

[Pazzo.]

Mewtwo's only role as a villain is the first film. Which ends with him understanding the error in his ways, the plot continuing in Mewtwo Strikes Back where he is a primary protagonist. Another Mewtwo appears in Genesect and the Legend Awakened, who is also a primary protagonist in that film.

I don't think it's really fair to consider him a villain, especially since Dedede and Meta Knight aren't really considered villains either (Though Greninja is because of it's role in the Diancie film [Judging by a previous Conquest event at least, but it could just be because of it's Dark typing too...]).

Well, Mewtwo was 'the final challenge' of Red/Green/Blue IIRC.

you forgot Ness so I put him up there

King of Evil...?

 

[Wintropy]

Just popping in here to say:

Protagonist refers to the main character of the narrative, regardless of moral integrity or ethical alignment. You don't have to be a hero to be a protagonist; you can have a story with a villain or evildoer as the protagonist. The protagonist is necessarily the central character of the narrative; beyond that, you can have a deuteragonist (secondary lead) and tritagonist (tertiary lead). Technically you can have more than one protagonist, insofar as a story can have more than one main or central character, but it usually refers to the character that the story revolves around and who drives the story forward.

To wit: Mario is the protagonist of the Super Mario Bros. series, and is a nice, friendly sort, undeniably a hero; likewise, Walter White is the protagonist of Breaking Bad, yet he is a criminal mastermind with no moral qualms and, by the end of the series, is almost indubitably a villain.

Antagonist refers to the opposing force or presence that must be defeated in the narrative. Again, not every antagonist is a villain, and there are examples of heroic antagonists. There can be many antagonists, but most stories will present a major antagonist above all others (i.e. the "big bad" if they're a villain). Basically, if you're the character that opposes the protagonist and their allies, you're the antagonist. Likewise, just as you can have an unsympathetic protagonist, you can have a sympathetic antagonist. Some stories will deliberately aim to make you feel sorry for the antagonist instead of the protagonist. But the antagonist doesn't have their name in the title or first billing in the credits, so chances are they will get their just desserts by the time the story concludes.

To wit: Ganondorf is the antagonist of The Legend of Zelda, he is a villain through and through and is literally nicknamed the Great King of Evil due to his obscene and wicked deeds; likewise, Flynn Scifo in Tales of Vesperia is an antagonist (but not the big bad) for most of Tales of Vesperia, yet he is a good person who wants to stop the protagonist from killing people and generally being a ****.

So, in a nutshell, by canon of the first Pokémon movie, Mewtwo is an antagonist. Whether or not he is a villain is up for debate.

Likewise, Wolf O'Donnell is an antagonist; but beyond Lylat Wars, he is definitely not a villain. He even arguably becomes a protagonist in later games, in that he helps the heroes and is a major character in the central narrative.

 

[AEMehr]

Well, Mewtwo was 'the final challenge' of Red/Green/Blue IIRC.

While that is true, that doesn't technically make him a villain.
But at the end of the day the only thing that'll really matter towards is conquest stuff, unless more events are added as a result of Mewtwo's inclusion that incorporate him.

Just popping in here to say:

Protagonist refers to the main character of the narrative, regardless of moral integrity or ethical alignment. You don't have to be a hero to be a protagonist; you can have a story with a villain or evildoer as the protagonist. The protagonist is necessarily the central character of the narrative; beyond that, you can have a deuteragonist (secondary lead) and tritagonist (tertiary lead). Technically you can have more than one protagonist, insofar as a story can have more than one main or central character, but it usually refers to the character that the story revolves around and who drives the story forward.

To wit: Mario is the protagonist of the Super Mario Bros. series, and is a nice, friendly sort, undeniably a hero; likewise, Walter White is the protagonist of Breaking Bad, yet he is a criminal mastermind with no moral qualms and, by the end of the series, is almost indubitably a villain.

Antagonist refers to the opposing force or presence that must be defeated in the narrative. Again, not every antagonist is a villain, and there are examples of heroic antagonists. There can be many antagonists, but most stories will present a major antagonist above all others (i.e. the "big bad" if they're a villain). Basically, if you're the character that opposes the protagonist and their allies, you're the antagonist. Likewise, just as you can have an unsympathetic protagonist, you can have a sympathetic antagonist. Some stories will deliberately aim to make you feel sorry for the antagonist instead of the protagonist. But the antagonist doesn't have their name in the title or first billing in the credits, so chances are they will get their just desserts by the time the story concludes.

To wit: Ganondorf is the antagonist of The Legend of Zelda, he is a villain through and through and is literally nicknamed the Great King of Evil due to his obscene and wicked deeds; likewise, Flynn Scifo in Tales of Vesperia is an antagonist (but not the big bad) for most of Tales of Vesperia, yet he is a good person who wants to stop the protagonist from killing people and generally being a ****.

So, in a nutshell, by canon of the first Pokémon movie, Mewtwo is an antagonist. Whether or not he is a villain is up for debate.

Likewise, Wolf O'Donnell is an antagonist; but beyond Lylat Wars, he is definitely not a villain. He even arguably becomes a protagonist in later games, in that he helps the heroes and is a major character in the central narrative.

You knew what I meant :V

 

[Wintropy]

You knew what I meant :V

Oh, it wasn't directed at you, sweetheart.

I just saw a debate about protagonist / antagonist and my fluffy little ears perked up. Gotta make some us of my English degree, yo~ :3

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

So, in a nutshell, by canon of the first Pokémon movie, Mewtwo is an antagonist. Whether or not he is a villain is up for debate.

Going by the definition of "villain", though, he isn't quite a villain in the strictest form;
"(in a film, novel, or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot."

His motives and actions aren't really evil, nor are they really heroic; they're morally ambiguous, as is Mewtwo himself. Even in the first movie, his plan is merely to ensure others aren't treated as lab experiments like he was. He goes overboard in it, yes, but it's hardly a villainous motive for his actions. So he's sort of both protagonistic and antagonistic in the first movie.

 

[Pazzo.]

Just popping in here to say:

Protagonist refers to the main character of the narrative, regardless of moral integrity or ethical alignment. You don't have to be a hero to be a protagonist; you can have a story with a villain or evildoer as the protagonist. The protagonist is necessarily the central character of the narrative; beyond that, you can have a deuteragonist (secondary lead) and tritagonist (tertiary lead). Technically you can have more than one protagonist, insofar as a story can have more than one main or central character, but it usually refers to the character that the story revolves around and who drives the story forward.

To wit: Mario is the protagonist of the Super Mario Bros. series, and is a nice, friendly sort, undeniably a hero; likewise, Walter White is the protagonist of Breaking Bad, yet he is a criminal mastermind with no moral qualms and, by the end of the series, is almost indubitably a villain.

Antagonist refers to the opposing force or presence that must be defeated in the narrative. Again, not every antagonist is a villain, and there are examples of heroic antagonists. There can be many antagonists, but most stories will present a major antagonist above all others (i.e. the "big bad" if they're a villain). Basically, if you're the character that opposes the protagonist and their allies, you're the antagonist. Likewise, just as you can have an unsympathetic protagonist, you can have a sympathetic antagonist. Some stories will deliberately aim to make you feel sorry for the antagonist instead of the protagonist. But the antagonist doesn't have their name in the title or first billing in the credits, so chances are they will get their just desserts by the time the story concludes.

To wit: Ganondorf is the antagonist of The Legend of Zelda, he is a villain through and through and is literally nicknamed the Great King of Evil due to his obscene and wicked deeds; likewise, Flynn Scifo in Tales of Vesperia is an antagonist (but not the big bad) for most of Tales of Vesperia, yet he is a good person who wants to stop the protagonist from killing people and generally being a ****.

So, in a nutshell, by canon of the first Pokémon movie, Mewtwo is an antagonist. Whether or not he is a villain is up for debate.

Likewise, Wolf O'Donnell is an antagonist; but beyond Lylat Wars, he is definitely not a villain. He even arguably becomes a protagonist in later games, in that he helps the heroes and is a major character in the central narrative.

Thank you. This needed to be said.

My current location prevents me from making long, explanatory posts.

 

[Wintropy]

Going by the definition of "villain", though, he isn't quite a villain in the strictest form;
"(in a film, novel, or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot."

His motives and actions aren't really evil, nor are they really heroic; they're morally ambiguous, as is Mewtwo himself. Even in the first movie, his plan is merely to ensure others aren't treated as lab experiments like he was. He goes overboard in it, yes, but it's hardly a villainous motive for his actions. So he's sort of both protagonistic and antagonistic in the first movie.

Hence why I specified that it's up for debate. He's a megalomaniacal mass murderer with a god complex even so. I don't think he's a villain, since he's not willfully malicious, but he's certainly not a hero either.

Remember, too:

He who fights with monsters must see to it that, in the process, he himself does not become a monster; and when you gaze long into the abyss, know that the abyss will also gaze into you.

He's not intentionally evil, but it could be argued that his actions are, nevertheless, wicked. The difference between protagonist / antagonist and hero / villain is that the former are narrative roles, the latter are moral standards.

 

[AEMehr]

It's tough to pick out a villain for the Pokemon series, because all of the true villains in the franchise with like two/three exceptions are human characters.

 

[Cool Typhlosion]

It's tough to pick out a villain for the Pokemon series, because all of the true villains in the franchise with like two/three exceptions are human characters.

Darkrai/Primal Dialga enough said

 

[AEMehr]

Darkrai/Primal Dialga enough said

In Mystery Dungeon, yeah sure. But considering Smash's lack of reference to Mystery Dungeon I doubt that really counts.

 

[Cool Typhlosion]

In Mystery Dungeon, yeah sure. But considering Smash's lack of reference to Mystery Dungeon I doubt that really counts.

They still deserve a mention I mean how many villans do you know corrupt one of the strongest beings in the universe and you know STOP TIME

 

[AEMehr]

They still deserve a mention I mean how many villans do you know corrupt one of the strongest beings in the universe and you know STOP TIME

Well I did say "with two/three exceptions" so...

 

[N3ON]

Regardless of what people want to label him as, portraying Mewtwo as a villain in Smash wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

 

[Wintropy]

Regardless of what people want to label him as, portraying Mewtwo as a villain in Smash wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

Precisely.

I tend to associate him with such an image in Smash, due to his decidedly sinister portrayal in Melee.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

It's tough to pick out a villain for the Pokemon series, because all of the true villains in the franchise with like two/three exceptions are human characters.

What if there was a human who fused himself with Pokemon DNA and became more powerful. After beating all his Pokemon, you would have to fight him too.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Robbery, corruption, guilty of murder, kidnapping, Vandalism. (Wario master of Disguise, Mario power tennis, Warioware, Wario Land series)

Alright, I'm going to risk sounding like a thicky here, but who did Wario murder and in what game?

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Alright, I'm going to risk sounding like a thicky here, but who did Wario murder and in what game?

Countless pirates as well as a pharaoh and a dolphin king. (Wario Land) (Master of disguise) not to mention attempted murder in super sluggers.

 

[Wintropy]

Countless pirates as well as a pharaoh and a dolphin king. (Wario Land) (Master of disguise)

Is that really murder? It was during a period of armed conflict, I'm pretty sure that'd just be counted as casualties of war.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Countless pirates as well as a pharaoh and a dolphin king. (Wario Land) (Master of disguise)

...they're just the enemies in the game aren't they?

If we're counting those as acts of evil, all of the heroic characters are just as guilty of murder as well, making Bowser who rarely kills anyone less evil than Mario who stomps thousands of Goombas and Koopa Troopas a day.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Is that really murder? It was during a period of armed conflict, I'm pretty sure that'd just be counted as casualties of war.

Spoiler

Guess you have a point, though he did assault those guards in the museum level.

Spoiler

And well actually in Master of Disguise Canolli is just trying to get his wand back after Wario stole it, plus he's also trying to prevent Wario from restoring the wishtone

Spoiler

which by doing so would unleash a demon, so Cannoli is kind of a good guy, Wario's just trying to get the Wishstone for well isn't it obvious, and he'll do anything to get his hands on it, even when Wario saves the day, all he usually cares about is the $$. He kills in the name of greed, not for a noble cause.

 

[Pazzo.]

Wario's always sort of done his own thing.

Antagonist? Sure. Villain? Occasionally.

 

[JaidynReiman]

...they're just the enemies in the game aren't they?

If we're counting those as acts of evil, all of the heroic characters are just as guilty of murder as well, making Bowser who rarely kills anyone less evil than Mario who stomps thousands of Goombas and Koopa Troopas a day.

That's not murder though, if Mario is actually killing them he's merely defending against an invader. Because that's what Bowser does; invade. That's self-defense/defense of another, not murder. They're the ones trying to take over the mushroom kingdom.


If Wario is running around and taking things out of his own greed, and killing anyone along the way, that is murder. There's a huge difference.


That said, I don't think Mario kills any of Bowser's minions, he just defeats them. Wario likely does not either.

 

[Will]

Wario's always sort of done his own thing.

Antagonist? Sure. Villain? Occasionally.

I think he was only a villain in Super Mario Land 2,Mario & Wario,and Wario's Woods. He becomes an antagonist in spin-offs like the sports franchises (except Mario Kart) Afterwards,he becomes more of an anti-hero,as seen in Wario Land,Wario World,and Master of Disguise.

That said, I don't think Mario kills any of Bowser's minions, he just defeats them. Wario likely does not either.

So Goombas just inflate back to where they were? Do they even have bones? Does that explain why they're easily squished?
Is it theory time now?

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think he was only a villain in Super Mario Land 2,Mario & Wario,and Wario's Woods. He becomes an antagonist in spin-offs like the sports franchises (except Mario Kart) Afterwards,he becomes more of an anti-hero,as seen in Wario Land,Wario World,and Master of Disguise.



So Goombas just inflate back to where they were? Do they even have bones? Does that explain why they're easily squished?
Is it theory time now?

Often times they showcase goombas and koopas beaten and bruised in spinoffs and the like, and talking about how they always get beat up by Mario. All implying they're just injured and not really dead. Squishing them is more of a gameplay mechanic.

 

[Pazzo.]

Note: No one actually 'dies' in the Mario universe.

Except Rosalina's mom.... Or the occasional Dry Bones...

 

[Will]

Note: No one actually 'dies' in the Mario universe.

Accept Rosalina's mom. :/

Again,Game Theory

Often times they showcase goombas and koopas beaten and bruised in spinoffs and the like, and talking about how they always get beat up by Mario. All implying they're just injured and not really dead. Squishing them is more of a gameplay mechanic.

Well,those are spin-offs.
Paper Mario isn't heavy enough to crush Goombas,they just spin and warp out of existence.

 

[N3ON]

Note: No one actually 'dies' in the Mario universe.

Accept Rosalina's mom. :/

I will not.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Again,Game Theory

Making RosalinaxPeach way more awkward.



Or awesome, if that's your thing.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Wario was always made to look evil in the commercials,

Spoiler

and of course

 

[Will]

Wario was always made to look evil in the commercials,

Spoiler

and of course

He's a greedy,sadistic man who loathes garlic,money,and his own self-worth.
I think that's the face of the description.

 

[Pazzo.]

I will not.

Grammar is a gift.

 

[Xzsmmc]

He's a greedy,sadistic man who loathes garlic,money,and his own self-worth.
I think that's the face of the description.

I think you mean 'loves'. Loathes is the exact opposite.

 

[Pazzo.]

Anyway, I think Smash has a good assortment of personalities.

Silly

Serious

Good

Evil

Loyal

Tricky

Humble

Cocky

 

[JaidynReiman]

Anyway, I think Smash has a good assortment of personalities.

Silly

Serious

Good

Evil

Loyal

Tricky

Humble

Cocky

Still need "bats*** insane" :D

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Anyway, I think Smash has a good assortment of personalities.

Silly

Serious

Good

Evil

Loyal

Tricky

Humble

Cocky

Good and Evil are not personality traits.

 

[YoshiandToad]

That said, I don't think Mario kills any of Bowser's minions, he just defeats them. Wario likely does not either.

Unless of course...he lets Yoshi eat them. No way they're alive after being devoured. Being alive there would actually be worse.

Yoshi(and Kirby) for villains. Murdering for the sake of their own greed.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Unless of course...he lets Yoshi eat them. No way they're alive after being devoured. Being alive there would actually be worse.

Yoshi(and Kirby) for villains. Murdering for the sake of their own greed.

To be fair, if Yoshi is actually eating them, then he's simply a predator eating prey.

Kirby is a bit more gray there...

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Still need "bats*** insane" :D

Warioware