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CrusherMania1592

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You know, the more I think about Ridley without bringing heat up, the more weirder it gets. It's funny how in Brawl, Sakurai confirmed him as a boss right away and made most of us kinda go for Dark Samus (correct me if I'm wrong as I wasn't around that much here during Brawl's time), while the recent one made us go longer and hype us all up for a disappointment. So...it makes me wonder what Sakurai was thinking other than trolling us all during that phase
 

ZeldaFan01

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No but seriously, characters like Shadow, Silver, Blaze, even the Jet and Espio teams are now, like, left in the dark. I really don't like what sega did by creating sonic boom and the new designs. Are they really gonna continue with that? What could possibly be next if they do?
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Short version; Microsoft acquired Rare (at the time a second party of Nintendo) and all their IPs, including Banjo, after Nintendo wouldn't buy them out.
Long version? The Stamper Brothers founders of RareWare were ready to sell off their 51% share in the company. The two main companies in the running for the purchase were Microsoft and Activision. Activision was planning and even dreaming up ideas and making plans with Nintendo to keep the DKC, Banjo, and other series on Nintendo systems, which was a requirement due to Nintendo owning the other 49%. Microsoft at the last second purchased the 51% and Nintendo probably didn't want to deal with another console producer in how the Rare series' would be handled, in light of this Nintendo sold their remaining 49% to Microsoft. It's sad Activision didn't purchase it as the Rare we once knew may have still been just as great.
 

ZeldaFan01

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Why couldn't this happen. It could've been done.! As his alt costumes like robin
 
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JaidynReiman

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No but seriously, characters like Shadow, Silver, Blaze, even the Jet and Espio teams are now, like, left in the dark. I really don't like what sega did by creating sonic boom and the new designs. Are they really gonna continue with that? What could possibly be next if they do?
See, I think there's a slight difference here in regards to the Sonic games and characters.


In the main games, they reduced the cast because people kept bashed on "crappy Sonic characters." However, in spinoffs, most of these characters keep appearing left and right. The Babylon Rogues are basically restricted to Riders, but whenever the side characters appear, you always see Cream, Team Dark, Team Chaotix, Blaze, and Silver added as well, so they're not really left in the dust at all. They just don't appear in the "main" games.


The Mobile games prove they still plan to use those characters as well.


You mean the one he plays the biggest role in?

The series in general is over-saturated with throwaway characters. They seem to have the opposite mentality than that of Nintendo's: create the gameplay first, worry about the characters later. Most Sonic characters are created now just for the sake of existing.
It is a bit irritating that they tend to create a new character like a helper character per game rather than utilizing existing characters. Not all of the characters are "throwaway," though, but those characters are the only ones that appear in future titles, and since Sonic '06, no new "recurring" characters have been created.

The main characters that tend to be "recurring" characters are Shadow, Rouge, Blaze, Silver, Cream, and Team Chaotix. The latter less often. Then occasionally a spinoff utilizes Jet or Omega, and that's about it. Regardless, they've been creating characters far less since Sonic '06, usually only adding like one helper character that doesn't appear again. Generations didn't even add any, though Lost World added new (lame) antagonists.


Honestly, though, its just a trend with Sonic ever since Sonic 2. They added a new character per game. So its not like its anything new. DKC did it as well, starting off with five characters + Animal Buddies, and continuing the trend through DK64. It probably would've continued even more if Rare had not been bought out.
 

ZeldaFan01

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See, I think there's a slight difference here in regards to the Sonic games and characters.


In the main games, they reduced the cast because people kept bashed on "crappy Sonic characters." However, in spinoffs, most of these characters keep appearing left and right. The Babylon Rogues are basically restricted to Riders, but whenever the side characters appear, you always see Cream, Team Dark, Team Chaotix, Blaze, and Silver added as well, so they're not really left in the dust at all. They just don't appear in the "main" games.


The Mobile games prove they still plan to use those characters as well.
They really shouldnt be labled as crappy but oh well! I'm aware that they're in the mobile games, but I don't really count them.
I wish there were more games like Sonic 06 and generations because I just feel like those types are "true" sonic games.
I stand by what i said where I also would want a spinoff with Blaze, and/or Silver. But That's not gonna happen anytime soon. I would want one for shadow too I guess but he already had one (Shadow the Hedgehog 2005) and that was even more of a disaster than 06
 

Arcadenik

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People are sheep.

No other way to put it.

How else did Shulk become one of the most obscure choices to one of the most popular?
And how Duck Hunt Dog went from one of the least wanted choices to one of the most popular.

Really... Smash always has a way to make people like characters.
 

Swamp Sensei

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And how Duck Hunt Dog went from one of the least wanted choices to one of the most popular.

Really... Smash always has a way to make people like characters.
Indeed, but it's not a case of "Eh" to "Cool!"

It's "THIS IS LITERALLY POOP" to "OMIGOSH HE CONFIRMED NOW I LOVE HIM!"
 

Originality

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Indeed, but it's not a case of "Eh" to "Cool!"

It's "THIS IS LITERALLY POOP" to "OMIGOSH HE CONFIRMED NOW I LOVE HIM!"
I didn't particularly care about Shulk before he announced, and I was equally indifferent after. Although, now that the game is out and I've played as him, I'm glad he was added.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I didn't particularly care about Shulk before he announced, and I was equally indifferent after. Although, now that the game is out and I've played as him, I'm glad he was added.
That would be a case of "Eh" to "Cool" which doesn't come off as Jarring imo.

Its one extreme opposite to another.
 

Croph

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How was Shulk an obscure choice? He did have decent popularity here, and more in Japan. I could see maybe in the context of his game, though since the localization of Xenoblade was a part of Operation Rainfall, for me the game (and to an extend Shulk) will always have this... special novelty about it, for lack of better term (dunno how to explain it).
 

Swamp Sensei

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How was Shulk an obscure choice? He did have decent popularity here, and more in Japan. I could see maybe in the context of his game, though since the localization of Xenoblade was a part of Operation Rainfall, for me the game (and to an extend Shulk) will always have this... special novelty about it, for lack of better term (dunno how to explain it).
The far majority of people had no clue who he was.

Even among smash fans before his leak.
 

Originality

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That would be a case of "Eh" to "Cool" which doesn't come off as Jarring imo.

Its one extreme opposite to another.
The closest to that for me was probably Greninja, but that was more of "Eh" to "OMIGOSH HE CONFIRMED NOW I LOVE HIM!"

I only knew of Shulk because of the top 10 character lists that included him.
 
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BKupa666

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It's gone both ways for me before. Duck Hunt was always my preferred choice for a retro character, and seeing him in-game only reinforced my enjoyment of him (favorite newcomer after BJ). WFT, on the other hand, I never found remotely compelling, and her current standing in-game has done nothing to change that.
 

JaidynReiman

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I didn't want nor care about Duck Hunt prior to his reveal. Still don't.

I didn't want nor care (or even consider) WFT before her reveal. Still don't.


The far majority of people had no clue who he was.

Even among smash fans before his leak.
I did hear the name Shulk quite a bit in the months prior to the original Gematsu leak. Admittedly, I had no idea who he was, but I DID see the name pop up quite a bit. The funny thing is, though, that I did hear about Xenoblade Chronicles prior to its release and I kinda watched it a bit. But I had no idea the main character's name was Shulk.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Indeed, but it's not a case of "Eh" to "Cool!"

It's "THIS IS LITERALLY POOP" to "OMIGOSH HE CONFIRMED NOW I LOVE HIM!"
I'm still not fully on board with Duck Hunt. I will never be on board with Dark Pit. :rolleyes:
 

Arcadenik

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Indeed, but it's not a case of "Eh" to "Cool!"

It's "THIS IS LITERALLY POOP" to "OMIGOSH HE CONFIRMED NOW I LOVE HIM!"
Is that how Smashchu feels now? I wonder... same with other DHD detractors who vehemently opposed my DHD support for years.

You mean the one he plays the biggest role in?

The series in general is over-saturated with throwaway characters. They seem to have the opposite mentality than that of Nintendo's: create the gameplay first, worry about the characters later. Most Sonic characters are created now just for the sake of existing.


Short version; Microsoft acquired Rare (at the time a second party of Nintendo) and all their IPs, including Banjo, after Nintendo wouldn't buy them out.
Depressing that Nintendo refused to buy Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, Perfect Dark, Jet Force Gemini, Killer Instinct, Sabre Wulf, Battletoads, and (my childhood favorite) Snake Rattle 'n' Roll... It makes me so sad to know that these characters will never be in Smash.

We could have gotten Diddy Kong Racing U too.
 

N3ON

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Yeah if you played Nintendo in the 90s it'd be like half your favourite franchises getting killed off/disqualified for Smash. :(
 
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Originality

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I never knew that Jet Force Gemini was a Rare game. I always wondered why there was only the one.
 
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ZeldaFan01

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I'm still not fully on board with Duck Hunt. I will never be on board with Dark Pit. :rolleyes:
Not on board with Dark Pit... Did you not play Uprising?? :O
Depressing that Nintendo refused to buy Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, Perfect Dark, Jet Force Gemini, Killer Instinct, Sabre Wulf, Battletoads, and (my childhood favorite) Snake Rattle 'n' Roll... It makes me so sad to know that these characters will never be in Smash.
I would've loved Banjo & Kazooie in SSB4! :/
Though if he was still part of Nintendo, who knows if they would've decided to put both him and Duck Hunt. Hmm
 

Xzsmmc

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I'm still not fully on board with Duck Hunt. I will never be on board with Dark Pit. :rolleyes:
I played Duck Hunt a lot as a kid, so his inclusion is fine with me. Not only can I use him, I beat the living **** out of him for laughing at me all those years ago.

Agreed on Dark Pit though. While not my least favorite character, he's the addition I dislike the most. Plus, his reason for being added is absolutely ridiculous.
 

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Not on board with Dark Pit... Did you not play Uprising?? :O

=
Yes, I did play Uprising. He annoyed me.
I played Duck Hunt a lot as a kid, so his inclusion is fine with me. Not only can I use him, I beat the living **** out of him for laughing at me all those years ago.

Agreed on Dark Pit though. While not my least favorite character, he's the addition I dislike the most. Plus, his reason for being added is absolutely ridiculous.
I meant as in jumping on the hype train just because he's added, I'm fine with him otherwise. Dark Pit is a big waste of potential though.
 
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Arcadenik

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I would rather have Banjo & Kazooie than Duck Hunt.
We could have gotten both... it's not like Banjo-Kazooie would summon sprite characters or have a fourth wall shooter... so DHD and BK would be still unique even though both have birds on their backs. I mean, King Dedede isn't a clone of the Ice Climbers when they all fight with hammers.
 

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During speculation, I was mostly indifferent to Duck Hunt. I sure never imagined it would happen, but I wasn't against it or anything, I just wanted Takamaru (and still do) more. After playing as him, I fell in love and now he's my main.

Wii Fit Trainer was always meh and still is meh. I don't care that she's in the game, but she's the sole character that I can't play as decently in any fashion. As for the clone three, I generally pick them about as much as their original counterparts. I don't play much Marth, but I'll usually pick him for being the OG, but occasionally I'll go Lucina for her way better palette swaps. I tend to pick Doc over Mario because black coat swag and the pill noises, though I prefer Mario's gameplay. Pit and Pittoo are some of my more played characters, and I'l pick either one for no reason in particular. Usually Pit though, because he has less sharp edges.
 

ZeldaFan01

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Yes, I did play Uprising. He annoyed me.
...............

Really. Are you serious.
Oh fine, they may be carbon copies but I can't help but like them more than their original counterparts.... Oh well. It appears I am in the minority
 

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I can't believe we got Dark Pit when we could've gotten someone like Dixie.

I would've loved Banjo & Kazooie in SSB4! :/
Though if he was still part of Nintendo, who knows if they would've decided to put both him and Duck Hunt. Hmm
Either way Banjo definitely would've gotten in with Brawl.
 

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The far majority of people had no clue who he was.

Even among smash fans before his leak.
I still think him being requested in both the West and Japan doesn't make him obscure. We gathered data for the pre-Smash 4 polls from various websites, a lot of people must have known who Shulk is. Even then, he had a lot of popularity in Japan so... I guess we're not seeing eye to eye here.

Anyway, yeah, when there's leaks there's going to be bandwagons. It seems to me like some people here dislike when others are hypocrites, for example when people say: "X character has no moveset potential and is a dumb choice for Smash!" *X characters gets in* "Oh wait, never mind! X is a great choice and my favourite newcomer!"

Yeah, you could say they're hypocrites, or at least their thoughts are inconsistent. Maybe they were also close-minded, and just opened up once said character got in (or thought was possible). We really don't know unless we ask them -- if you see people being hypocrites call them out and tell them to explain why. Because until we do, we don't know the full story and we're just generalizing people. Yeah, it's probably the majority, but I honestly dislike generalizing.

Oh and and then there's those who backtrack. Probably because they hate to be wrong. Yeah, just ignore those fools. =P
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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I didn't like the idea of Greninja in before and after he was revealed, and it's just completely due to the fact that I find him completely undeserving. I really did try giving him a chance, I do like him as a Pokemon, I like how he has water swords, water is my favorite type in Pokemon, I thought his movement was kind of cool, and I did think he was the best choice for a 6th gen Pokemon, but there are more deserving Pokemon out there and I hate to see them get looked over in favor of adding someone new who doesn't even have that much significance in the games or anime. I feel like there is just going to be an endless loop where a really deserving Pokemon gets ignored because they have to shove a brand new Pokemon in there instead, even if they have no other reason to be added other than that they're new, and that bugs me because by the time the next game comes out they'll be old, which thus makes them have nothing going for them other than their Smash popular, which being undeserved. Let's just look at the other playable Pokemon in the game, and their significance to the Pokemon series. Pikachu is the mascot, Charizard is basically the face of starter Pokemon, Mewtwo is basically the face of legendary Pokemon, Lucario was (at the time of Brawl) the only non legendary Pokemon to have his own movie, and now has gotten bigger roles in the games and has become some what of a secondary mascot to the series, Greninja is... possibly the most popular water starter after Blastoise?, and Jigglypuff has almost nothing. Wow, this rant went on longer than I thought it would. You know I probably would have been more accepting of Greninja if we got a grass starter to finish off the starter type trio, but we didn't get that, and having two of the three starter types annoys me more than just having one.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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...............

Really. Are you serious.
Oh fine, they may be carbon copies but I can't help but like them more than their original counterparts.... Oh well. It appears I am in the minority
I don't exactly hate the character. Sure, he's annoying as hell, like Shadow, but the fact that all they really had to do to make him a unique character is give him Brawl Pit's moveset and buff him a little bit bugs me. So much potential, so little implementation.
 
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ZeldaFan01

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I can't believe we got Dark Pit when we could've gotten someone like Dixie.


Either way Banjo definitely would've gotten in with Brawl.
Ooohh about Dixie, in brawl they were trying to have Diddy and her as a tag team in brawl but it was scrapped for unexplained reasons I'm betting. I could just imagine how cool it would be to bring the idea back for SSB4. I could never picture her as a clone actually, with or without Diddy
 

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I don't know, it's not like Dark Pit was a detriment to the games' development considering the minimal amount of work that was put into him. With the minimal work done for him, it would be impossible to put any other clone character in the game considering they had to make a new model and animate it correctly. All clones in this game were upgraded from alts.

He's Pit with a few slightly altered moves and a re-skin of Zelda's Final Smash (right down to having the exact same stats). Some characters had bigger changes from patches than the changes Dark Pit has from Pit.

He's the kind of extra content that could have been done in some developers' lunch break. Sakurai even gave the implication when he stated one of the designers had already made an Electroshock Arm model before they even considered turning him into his own character.

Developers and designers doing their own things beyond what was tasked to them and planned for a project is not an uncommon thing, especially if they like their job and have passion for what they do.

I like that he's in the game. I don't care if he's a clone. *shrugs*

I'll just let the haters hate and not give as many ****s as people here do about... fictional characters.
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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I can't believe we got Dark Pit when we could've gotten someone like Dixie.
To be fair Dixie wasn't an already made costume like the other clones, and I don't know about anyone else, but I'd almost be insulted if all Dixie was was a clone like the other three clones with the only difference from Diddy being a different ending to her jab attack (since she doesn't have a tail), her up special, and slightly different stats.
 

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To be fair Dixie wasn't an already made costume like the other clones, and I don't know about anyone else, but I'd almost be insulted if all Dixie was was a clone like the other three clones with the only difference from Diddy being a different ending to her jab attack (since she doesn't have a tail), her up special, and slightly different stats.
Completely agreed.

Dixie Kong has a lot of room for uniqueness and, even though I never touched a DKC game, I agree that she shouldn't be a nearly identical clone of Diddy as the likes of Dark Pit and Lucina are of Pit and Marth. Not to mention it's downright impossible to implement her as such in the first place. I could see her getting some similar moves as Diddy, though.

Anyway, it sure gets irritating seeing certain kinds of ignorant nonsense being spouted even to this day.

Heh... Knowing people, even if Dixie was implemented as a clone, it would likely happen that the people currently complaining about Dark Pit and Lucina would have complained about her being a clone. People will always find something to complain about. It's human nature.
 

N3ON

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To be fair Dixie wasn't an already made costume like the other clones, and I don't know about anyone else, but I'd almost be insulted if all Dixie was was a clone like the other three clones with the only difference from Diddy being a different ending to her jab attack (since she doesn't have a tail), her up special, and slightly different stats.
Exactly, they could've made Dixie an alt then a character instead. And sure I'd rather have her as a unique character, but as a clone and as a Smash character in general I'd take her over Dark Pit. How about you?

If Ganondorf can wind up a clone, Dixie sure could.

Ooohh about Dixie, in brawl they were trying to have Diddy and her as a tag team in brawl but it was scrapped for unexplained reasons I'm betting. I could just imagine how cool it would be to bring the idea back for SSB4. I could never picture her as a clone actually, with or without Diddy
imo Diddy and Dixie deserve more than being tied to each other. But Sakurai does like returning to past ideas, for all we know she could've been another casualty of the 3DS's limitations.

I don't know, it's not like Dark Pit was a detriment to the games' development considering the minimal amount of work that was put into him. With the minimal work done for him, it would be impossible to put any other clone character in the game considering they had to make a new model and animate it correctly. All clones in this game were upgraded from alts.

He's Pit with a few slightly altered moves and a re-skin of Zelda's Final Smash (right down to having the exact same stats). Some characters had bigger changes from patches than the changes Dark Pit has from Pit.

He's the kind of extra content that could have been done in some developers' lunch break. Sakurai even gave the implication when he stated one of the designers had already made an Electroshock Arm model before they even considered turning him into his own character.

Developers and designers doing their own things beyond what was tasked to them and planned for a project is not an uncommon thing, especially if they like their job and have passion for what they do.
I don't think he's a detriment to the game or anything, but I'd definitely rather have another feasible alt-swap character instead of him. I'd take Alph as his own character first. And even if it would take a slight bit more time, it's not like any upgrade from an alt would burn a hole in the development schedule.

I like that he's in the game. I don't care if he's a clone. *shrugs*
If he wasn't a clone he'd get a lot more hate than he has, seriously.

I'll just let the haters hate and not give as many ****s as people here do about... fictional characters.
If you would swap one character on the roster for another that didn't make it, you give as much of a **** as we do, and hate as much as we hate.
 
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