Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

If people still believe the Gematsu leak was real just outdated why do you think he didn't know about Duck Hunt? Sakurai stated that they "included that character from the very beginning of the project." http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...er-dr-mario-duck-hunt-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/

Ugh, the "why didn't he know about so-and-so" excuse again...

Never did the source nor Sal Romano himself claim to know every goddamn character in the game.

 

[Spazzy_D]

If people still believe the Gematsu leak was real just outdated why do you think he didn't know about Duck Hunt? Sakurai stated that they "included that character from the very beginning of the project." http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...er-dr-mario-duck-hunt-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/

He never said those were all the characters. On top of that, this was likely a Namco employee judging from the last e-mail Sal got, so this is probably old info that was heard from a source not actually close to the project. Just some guy from the office that heard some talk around the water cooler so to speak.

 

[Arcadenik]

The Virus was most likely going to be stage bosses, due to their order in char_db, and the fact that these icons only exist in places where other stage bosses icons exist.

A Dr. Mario stage would be awesome.

 

[Senselessbreak]

How about this theory. E3 happens this summer, and we get a Chorus Kids/ RH rep DLC announcement. Those who buy the new RH 3DS game, will get a free code to download the characters when they are ready. The timing is perfect.

-E3 is this June
-Rhythm Heaven 3DS comes out this summer. This would give E3 viewers a heads up, and ultimately boost the sales of the game.
-The New Club Nintendo Program relaunches this summer. The Chorus Kids DLC would be a great early gift to get new people to try the program. Yes I know Nintendo won't give out product codes, but they will find an equal way to tie games to your account. Could be as simple as loading the game up and connecting online once.
-Sakurai said he doesn't like "premium" dlc, yet doesn't consider Mewtwo premium DLC. This promotional DLC wouldn't be "premium" in Sakurai's eyes, yet it would still make Nintendo Money.

Also, not directly influenced above, but I can easily see RH3DS having amiibo support. The release of a Smash character would launch the amiibo, thus making us throw more money at Nintendo.

 

[Jigglystep]

If people still believe the Gematsu leak was real just outdated why do you think he didn't know about Duck Hunt? Sakurai stated that they "included that character from the very beginning of the project." http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...er-dr-mario-duck-hunt-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/

Probably for the same reason that some of the credible leaks such as Ninka/Vaanroose didn't include certain characters. (I don't believe there was mention of Shulk in the Ninka leak for example)

 

[Spinosaurus]

If people still believe the Gematsu leak was real just outdated why do you think he didn't know about Duck Hunt? Sakurai stated that they "included that character from the very beginning of the project." http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...er-dr-mario-duck-hunt-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/

Who knows. But then why not ask why he separated the leak in the first place?

It's really not worth asking these questions. The only thing we can go by is that he got practically every character he listed right bar Chrom and Chorus Kids. (And with the recent news, we might as well give him points towards the latter).

90% right isn't necessarily 100% wrong. I'm not saying it's definitely true (it's really not worth arguing at this point), but I've seen enough leaks in this industry to know that's way too good of a record to be a guess.

 

[Senselessbreak]

So excited for all this.

 

[PushDustIn]

The Gematsu Leaker also failed to include Rosalina. I believe that the Gematsu Leaker had insider knowledge of the project plan, but not development. That's why they failed so hard when it came to the Robin/Lucina reveal trailer.

 

[Senselessbreak]

If people still believe the Gematsu leak was real just outdated why do you think he didn't know about Duck Hunt? Sakurai stated that they "included that character from the very beginning of the project." http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...er-dr-mario-duck-hunt-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/

We don't know the context of how he acquired this info. A friend could have told him some of the plans, and got then passed on.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Ugh, the "why didn't he know about so-and-so" excuse again...

Never did the source nor Sal Romano himself claim to know every goddamn character in the game.

Alright don't think critically about it, just use the "he didn't claim to know everything" excuse... Seriously though I didn't imply that he said he knew everything, I'm not trying to use this as proof of the leak being fake, I'm just wanting to hear people's thoughts on why he may not of known of that character but of so many others (and how he was aware that there was a conversation about cutting either Ness or Lucas and that Lucas was losing). I want to say tough that the "why didn't he mention Rosalina" excuse is a complete BS excuse, she was revealed before he could leak her with the other characters.

Probably for the same reason that some of the credible leaks such as Ninka/Vaanroose didn't include certain characters. (I don't believe there was mention of Shulk in the Ninka leak for example)

The leak DID mention Shulk.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Because those were all the characters the leaker could provide to Gematsu.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Nothing gets these boards going like that Gematsu leak. Even months after the games release when it's validity doesn't matter at all since we know the final roster.

Thanks @salromano, for the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Oh hey, I'm happy in continuing to believe in both Chorus kids and the Gematsu leak paid off for me.

Anyway, first off Marshall =/= Chrous kids. At most, marshall would be an alt. Marshall is a nobody now that the 3ds game advertised Chrous Kids, Wrestler, Karate Joe, but not Marshall. Marshall was a one time thing. Like the guy from Frog hop. The chorus kids are actually coming back unlike Marshall.

I said it before and I say it again. Chrous kids would be the most unique characters of the entire Rhythm selection that also best fit the theme of their game.

While it's sad to know they didn't make, them potentially being consider gives me major hope for them to be dlc or in the next smash.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oh hey, I'm happy in continuing to believe in both Chorus kids and the Gematsu leak paid off for me.

Anyway, first off Marshall =/= Chrous kids. At most, marshall would be an alt. Marshall is a nobody now that the 3ds game advertised Chrous Kids, Wrestler, Karate Joe, but not Marshall. Marshall was a one time thing. Like the guy from Frog hop. The chorus kids are actually coming back unlike Marshall.

I said it before and I say it again. Chrous kids would be the most unique characters of the entire Rhythm selection that also best fit the theme of their game.

While it's sad to know they didn't make, them potentially being consider gives me major hope for them to be dlc or in the next smash.

Actually, these are in the 3DS version...

And these are in the Wii U version.

EDIT: I misread that... when you said the 3DS game advertised these characters, I thought you meant the 3DS version. My apologies.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Oh hey, I'm happy in continuing to believe in both Chorus kids and the Gematsu leak paid off for me.

Anyway, first off Marshall =/= Chrous kids. At most, marshall would be an alt. Marshall is a nobody now that the 3ds game advertised Chrous Kids, Wrestler, Karate Joe, but not Marshall. Marshall was a one time thing. Like the guy from Frog hop. The chorus kids are actually coming back unlike Marshall.

I said it before and I say it again. Chrous kids would be the most unique characters of the entire Rhythm selection that also best fit the theme of their game.

While it's sad to know they didn't make, them potentially being consider gives me major hope for them to be dlc or in the next smash.

First time I saw this. The fact they lead off with a Karate Joe homage is definitely points in his favor.

 

[LucaSmash]

First time I saw this. The fact they lead off with a Karate Joe homage is definitely points in his favor.

Not to mention Karate Man was in all 4 Rhythm Heaven games now.

We don't know that Marshal isn't coming back to the new Rhythm Heaven. We've literally seen like 2 minutes of gameplay. Marshal didn't have his own real game, besides Night Walk which was in the credits. He just kind of guided you through the game (Tutorial, Remix 1, Beating the game, etc.)

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Actually, these are in the 3DS version...

And these are in the Wii U version.

EDIT: I misread that... when you said the 3DS game advertised these characters, I thought you meant the 3DS version.

Well, it does also help the chorus kids got a trophy in smash as well. And if my idea of Marshall being an alt could also help.

First time I saw this. The fact they lead off with a Karate Joe homage is definitely points in his favor.

I don't deny that it is basically a three way race between Chorus kids, Wrestler, and Karate Joe.

Karate Joe has the reoccurring status, Wrestler has popularity, but I do personally believe the Chorus Kids' uniqueness is what is going to get them in over the others.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

GOOD GRIEF! Not this again.

Sure, I would've been all right with the Chorus Kids in Smash, but let's face reality. They just explained why the ice climbers were cut, and we can expect the Chorus Kids were the same story.

 

[Wintropy]

GOOD GRIEF! Not this again.

Sure, I would've been all right with the Chorus Kids in Smash, but let's face reality. They just explained why the ice climbers were cut, and we can expect the Chorus Kids were the same story.

Why? What reasons do we possibly have to suggest that they had a triplicate AI system when, as previously stated, Sakurai had no precedent whatsoever to work off of, and therefore no legitimate cause to not just simplify them to fit the hardware limitations?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Why? What reasons do we possibly have to suggest that they had a triplicate AI system when, as previously stated, Sakurai had no precedent whatsoever to work off of, and therefore no legitimate cause to not just simplify them to fit the hardware limitations?

Well, I think Sal Romano was contacted by a real leaker all along, but at the same time receiving obsolete information. Gematsu did not leak them as one certain member, it blatantly said "Chorus Kids."

 

[Wintropy]

Well, I think Sal Romano was contacted by a real leaker all along, but at the same time receiving obsolete information. Gematsu did not leak them as one certain member, it blatantly said "Chorus Kids."

I know.

What I'm asking is, why do you think they'd be in the same boat as the Ice Climbers? There's literally no reason why they would have to be three separate AI running around the stage in tandem with eachother. They could just as easily have been developed as one AI with a tripartite character model, in a similar vein to Rosaluma or Duck Hunt.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I know.

What I'm asking is, why do you think they'd be in the same boat as the Ice Climbers? There's literally no reason why they would have to be three separate AI running around the stage in tandem with eachother. They could just as easily have been developed as one AI with a tripartite character model, in a similar vein to Rosaluma or Duck Hunt.

If Sakurai had intended it to be like Rosalina or Duck Hunt, they wouldn't have been scrapped the same way the Ice Climbers were.

 

[Wintropy]

If Sakurai had intended it to be like Rosalina or Duck Hunt, they wouldn't have been scrapped the same way the Ice Climbers were.

But we don't know that that's why they were scrapped.

 

[Das Koopa]

I'm far more interested in the Chrom portion of the Gematsu leak than anything else now.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

But we don't know that that's why they were scrapped.

I never said we do know, mr funnyman. It's just my personal opinion about what I think is the exact case based on what we know about Gematsu and how things turned out in the end.

 

[Wintropy]

I never said we do know, mr funnyman. It's just my personal opinion about what I think is the exact case based on what we know about Gematsu and how things turned out in the end.

Oh, I know. I'm not disputing that. Sorry if I sounded harsh, I wasn't intending to be curt, just that I was getting a tad exasperated because the argument was going around in circles.

You did say that they were scrapped for reasons you seemed to suggest were pretty definitive, though, which is why I felt the need to address it. Your thesis statement is valid, but your presentation of it needs work.

Also I'm not a man.

:3

 

[JaidynReiman]

Oh hey, I'm happy in continuing to believe in both Chorus kids and the Gematsu leak paid off for me.

Anyway, first off Marshall =/= Chrous kids. At most, marshall would be an alt. Marshall is a nobody now that the 3ds game advertised Chrous Kids, Wrestler, Karate Joe, but not Marshall. Marshall was a one time thing. Like the guy from Frog hop. The chorus kids are actually coming back unlike Marshall.

I said it before and I say it again. Chrous kids would be the most unique characters of the entire Rhythm selection that also best fit the theme of their game.

While it's sad to know they didn't make, them potentially being consider gives me major hope for them to be dlc or in the next smash.

Marshall was in two games, though. He was in Rhythm Heaven and Rhythm Heaven Fever.


Wait, though, where did this Rhythm Heaven 3DS come from? Was this literally just announced?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Marshall was in two games, though. He was in Rhythm Heaven and Rhythm Heaven Fever.


Wait, though, where did this Rhythm Heaven 3DS come from? Was this literally just announced?

So far we only know Rhythm Heaven 3DS is gonna come out in Japan. We haven't seen any english trailers yet.

 

[MYU2]

The Chorus Men were probably never planned, not sure why everyone says it was surely them when it might have been Marshal or Rhythm Girl. The most likely reason there weren't any RH characters might have been time constraints like Sakurai said.

 

[N3ON]

I'm far more interested in the Chrom portion of the Gematsu leak than anything else now.

Sakurai thought/was told to give Awakening a character. He picked Chrom. Chrom was on the shortlist for the roster in the early-ish stages of development, which is when the Gematsu info is circa. At some point in development Sakurai thought Chrom didn't bring enough new to the table/thought Robin was just generally a better choice, and the latter was swapped in for the former.

The Chorus Men were probably never planned, not sure why everyone says it was surely them when it might have been Marshal or Rhythm Girl. The most likely reason there weren't any RH characters might have been time constraints like Sakurai said.

Cuz Gematsu.

 

[MYU2]

The only time Gematsu was ever right was the E3 2013 leak. The numerous leaks that came after that were lucky guesses. It's RECAP TIME!!!

Let's see the characters the leaker got right even though they were predictable:

• "animal crossing guy"
• Mega Man
• Wii Fit Trainer - the exception
• Little Mac
• Pac-Man
• Mii

Characters who were very predictable:

• Shulk
• Palutena
• "Unknown Pokémon from X & Y" - easy guess

Characters that were flat out wrong:

• Chrom - never planned
• Chorus Kids/Men - not in the game

Characters that the almighty leaker missed because of supposed outdated info:

• Rosalina
• Bowser Jr.
• Lucina
• Robin
• Dark Pit
• Duck Hunt

 

[PushDustIn]

Miis, Mega Man, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer were not predictable. No one thought they would be in Smash 4 until Gematsu. Especially Mega Man and Wii Fit Trainer. Villager was shot down during Brawl (As he couldn't be so peaceful yet a fighter according to Sakurai) and Miis were brushed off by most people.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Sakurai thought/was told to give Awakening a character. He picked Chrom. Chrom was on the shortlist for the roster in the early-ish stages of development, which is when the Gematsu info is circa. At some point in development Sakurai thought Chrom didn't bring enough new to the table/thought Robin was just generally a better choice, and the latter was swapped in for the former.

But... this isn't correct. Sakurai said he reviewed the characters from Awakening and picked Robin. He only said Chrom was considered, he never said he "picked" Chrom or "planned" Chrom in any way, shape, or form. That's just people reading into Sakurai's statement. If you just read what he said at face value, he weighed the Awakening characters together and decided Robin was the best pick.

Nothing at all he said indicates Chrom was ever planned, and all Sakurai said was "I briefly considered it."

Miis, Mega Man, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer were not predictable. No one thought they would be in Smash 4 until Gematsu. Especially Mega Man and Wii Fit Trainer. Villager was shot down during Brawl (As he couldn't be so peaceful yet a fighter according to Sakurai) and Miis were brushed off by most people.

It doesn't particularly matter because no one's debating the first leak. But either way this is false. Many people never even knew about Sakurai's comments post-Brawl. I figured an Animal Crossing character was quite likely, and I openly expected Mega Man.


As for Mii? Numerous people expected and wanted Mii's. This wasn't a Gematsu thing.

Villager and Wii Fit Trainer, sure, more questionable choices.


Either way, I don't give a crap about the first leak. Its the second one that is the problem. Just because he was right the first time doesn't mean he didn't make crap up the second time to try and get attention.

 

[MYU2]

Miis, Mega Man, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer were not predictable. No one thought they would be in Smash 4 until Gematsu. Especially Mega Man and Wii Fit Trainer. Villager was shot down during Brawl (As he couldn't be so peaceful yet a fighter according to Sakurai) and Miis were brushed off by most people.

I can understand Mii & Villager, Wii Fit is the exception which is why put that little quote next to her character. Mega Man was predictable since I remember Sakurai say something about a Capcom character appearing in the next smash.

 

[Bowserlick]

No one else had a list like Getmatsu and he was the closest I have seen in getting the roster that far back before characters were announced. If the list was predictable more people would have been close.

 

[Kalimdori]

Gematsu got 9/11 of it's leaked characters right, while the other 2 have evidence of being considered, but cut. Chrom was considered by the development team, but dropped for Robin. Chorus Kids have a symbol, Smash Run enemy, and multiple trophies.

Gematsu had a legitimate, but outdated source, that is obvious. Explains why he didn't know if Lucas or Ness was cut, who Greninja really was, that he thought Chrom was in, not Robin (Don't give me that Sakurai only considered him. Contrary to popular belief, game developers don't make every single decision in the game themselves. It's called a development "team" for a reason.), etc.

 

[N3ON]

But... this isn't correct. Sakurai said he reviewed the characters from Awakening and picked Robin. He only said Chrom was considered, he never said he "picked" Chrom or "planned" Chrom in any way, shape, or form. That's just people reading into Sakurai's statement. If you just read what he said at face value, he weighed the Awakening characters together and decided Robin was the best pick.

Nothing at all he said indicates Chrom was ever planned, and all Sakurai said was "I briefly considered it."

He also said Villager was too peaceful to fight, seemingly ruling him out from consideration, and only later revealed that he had been planned for Brawl. He also said characters must be unique/bring something new to the table to be included. He also says he doesn't think about newcomers for Smash unless he's developing Smash, but during Uprising he talked about bringing a certain retro series back in Smash. Sakurai says a lot of things. And people are all to quick to blindly trust what he puts out there as gospel. You said it yourself, people take him at face value.

I think it's unwise to take developers at face value. Gaming is a very guarded and secretive industry when it comes to development, especially scrapped elements of games. It's riddled with half-truths and even lies, and you've got to take developers' disclosures with a grain of salt.

I'm willing to bet Sakurai was less than truthful on one factor regarding game development than the whole leak being fake based on a single contingency given the veracity of its other parts.

I'm not going to try and guess how far Chrom got into development, but I do think at one point he was on the shortlist and Robin wasn't.

Miis, Mega Man, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer were not predictable. No one thought they would be in Smash 4 until Gematsu. Especially Mega Man and Wii Fit Trainer. Villager was shot down during Brawl (As he couldn't be so peaceful yet a fighter according to Sakurai) and Miis were brushed off by most people.

I recall most people predicting Mega Man. And a fair amount of people predicted Miis too, they just were never a particularly popular pick.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

All these revisionists....

Shulk wasn't predictable until Gematsu wave two....

He was seen as the "Isaac" of this game.

 

[N3ON]

Shulk wasn't... not predictable... he just wasn't as much of a clear choice as people seem to think nowadays.

Same with Chrom. Before Gematsu he was no more predicted than Robin. Lucina and Roy had pretty vocal support too.

And an X/Y Pokemon. People didn't see a Lucario or Zoroark of the sixth gen and went back to thinking we'd get the Brawl Pokemon plus Mewtwo.

People think Gematsu followed the trends much more than it did. Mega Man, Little Mac, and Palutena were really the only ones to be nearly unanimously expected, or at least very very widely expected before they were on that list.

 

[False Sense]

Same with Chrom. Before Gematsu he was no more predicted than Robin. Lucina and Roy had pretty vocal support too.

I'm sorry, but saying Chrom wasn't any more predicted than Robin prior to Gematsu is outright false.

Chrom was seen for quite some time as one of the most likely newcomers. He was considered somewhat less likely after Rosalina was revealed and "uniqueness" began to be taken into serious consideration amongst speculation, but that quickly remedied itself and he eventually regained his "shoo-in" status.

During that time, most people forgot about Robin, if not completely neglected him/her.