Character Discussion Thread

[ZeldaFan01]

Well, besides Lucas and Wolf I'm not that dissatisfied. It's just that the only newcomer I was hype for was Villager (but I can see why people were fanboying over Mega Man, despite not playing a game myself), but that was it. But there aren't too many new iconic Nintendo characters left to add. I don't have high hopes for major newcomers in a possible Smash 5, but maybe one or two that everyone would be cheering for.

Do we only expectand to come back along with ? Not that I don't want them back I do. But I think the Melee veterans should come back first (, , and ). Then maybe after they're in, the Brawl Veterans should come back as well (,,, and but I don't think will make it though unfortunately ..... Idk how they're going to implement Pokemon Trainer and Young Link this time around if they're back...

I just think Veterans should come back first if at all, than to just have them left out..

 

[Wintropy]

I'd take newcomers over veterans any day.

Call me self-centered and vainglorious if you want, I'm standing by that. With the exceptions of Lucas, Wolf and Snake, I'm not terribly pushed on any of the cut vets.

I'd be happy to see them return, sure, but I'm not upset about it if they don't. I'd rather introduce new characters that have never before been in Smash than old favourites.

Or, y'know, there's the other option. Both at the same time, mya ha ha~

 

[ZeldaFan01]

100% fake. If you look closely, you'll notice that mewtwo's black line is slightly shorter than charizard's. The lines that separate characters also gets a bit distorted near lucas.

That's right. Also, don't you find it weird where Lucas and Mewtwo are currently aligned?

 

[PSIBoy]

Do we only expectand to come back along with ? Not that I don't want them back I do. But I think the Melee veterans should come back first (, , and ). Then maybe after they're in, the Brawl Veterans should come back as well (,,, and but I don't think will make it though unfortunately ..... Idk how they're going to implement Pokemon Trainer and Young Link this time around if they're back...

I just think Veterans should come back first if at all, than to just have them left out..

I never said in that particular post that I only expected those two to come back. I only said I was dissatisfied by their exclusion. In fact, I don't even think that Lucas has a good shot at returning unless Mother 3 is released worldwide. But Fire Emblem would be pushing it with a fifth character, Young Link was virtually replaced by Toon Link, Pokemon Trainer was cut due to the limitations of 3DS, and Squirtle and Ivysaur also took the fall, Snake may have a chance, but legal issues... And Pichu was not well-liked in Melee, but he may have a shot.

I'd take newcomers over veterans any day.

Call me self-centered and vainglorious if you want, I'm standing by that. With the exceptions of Lucas, Wolf and Snake, I'm not terribly pushed on any of the cut vets.

I'd be happy to see them return, sure, but I'm not upset about it if they don't. I'd rather introduce new characters that have never before been in Smash than old favourites.

Or, y'know, there's the other option. Both at the same time, mya ha ha~

To be honest, the only vets I really care about are Lucas, Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Snake. But that doesn't mean I'll rage out if the others get in instead of my wanted characters. I want a few newcomers myself, but Nintendo seems to be running out of really iconic characters to put in as newcomers.

 

[JamesDNaux]

As someone who wanted King K. Rool and Ridley, I'm very satisfied with the newcomers we received. Particularly Duck Hunt, who I never would have thought would be in the game, or would be one of my favorite newcomers and new main at that. The only thing that disappoints me in the slightest about the roster are the cuts, so by virtue I'm hoping for veteran DLC.

While I would love to see K. Rool show up eventually, the only newcomer that I'm really rooting for is Rayman, since he was nothing but a pipe dream until he of all characters got a trophy. Knowing that he's there but not being able to play as him hits me pretty hard. And out of the veterans, I want to see Snake back the most, since he was my favorite Brawl newcomer.

Mewtwo gives me hope, at least.

​

 

[pupNapoleon]

People complain about everything. They've complained about both rosters.
But you're right about one thing: people expect too much. However, like I said, in the case of Brawl I think every fanbase got something. Whereas in Smash 4 it's a lot more one-sided.
I mean, in Smash 4 Mario adds three more characters, Kid Icarus gets two newcomers, Fire Emblem gets two, while DK, Zelda, Metroid, and F-Zero get nothing, and Mother and Starfox actually lose characters.
In Brawl, pretty much every series a character, even small ones like Mother with Lucas, FE with Ike, etc. Even if he's not a newcomer per se, Toon Link is a new version of Link that was added...and overall series representation is very balanced.

In both installments a lot of new series are included, which is great.

Not knocking on Smash 4's roster by any means, but I hold to the position that Brawl's newcomers were superior in terms of fanservice. Wario, Meta Knight, Diddy Kong, "Wind Waker" Link, Ike, Olimar, ****ing Sonic the Hedgehog, etc.

It bothers me that, like many, you don't even bother to mention Pokemon, in either comment. It is impossible to discuss fan service without discussing a series that scores Nintendo money across all genres, customers, and consoles.

I'd claim, easily, that Pokemon Trainer was not only a shocking character in Brawl, but a bonafide Nintendo All-Star on par with all those you listed. *especially compared to "Windwaker" Link*

Additionally, Pokemon lost two IPs after Brawl; it could even be argued it lost three. To only list Mother and Starfox lost some is just anticlimactic, because even if Pokemon as a series still got new representation, there is no question that Ivysaur and Squirtle were incredibly noteworthy characters to Nintendo, far more recognizable to a majority, and arguably more unique fighters. The fact that such a unique essence of the series, in Pokemon Trainer, was cut, is also a loss for the entirety of SSB as a whole paralleled only in Ice Climbers not making it.

To compare this to the loss of a creator-stated dead series losing its second representative for a franchise nearly fully Japanese exclusive, or even to another who is a third interpretation of a SSB64 character whose series was majorly on hiatus series, is not only distressing, but poignantly lacking in fact.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I have to say that the character design, flow, creativity, and balance are exceptional in this game. That is why I want more and more characters. I feel that this team did an excellent job and created the best fighting game to date.

I understand why Nintendo has to determine if selling additional characters would net a profit, but DLC might be the best way to go for the Wii U while creating the new hardware and games that come with it.

This is actually a substantial point, and the clear reason Nintendo will greenlight DLC for smash bros, and any top selling game.
If there are games which will drive people to purchase the SYSTEM, then they will get more content.
Adding more content to Smash Bros ensures more customers, more intensive fanboys, will take the leap to the HD version.

The net profit for the game aside, it will in many cases, just as Melee did for the Gamecube, inspire consumers to purchase the system as a whole.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I honestly thought Pac-Man wouldn't fit at all, and didn't want him in.
Boy how I was wrong...

 

[FlareHabanero]

The reason we are all still speculating though was because the roster was that dissatisfactionary.

Daily reminder that somehow a roster with over 50 character is unsatisfactory, and this is the game that has solid quality with many characters on the roster.

Spoiled brats these days I swear.

 

[PSIBoy]

Daily reminder that somehow a roster with over 50 character is unsatisfactory, and this is the game that has solid quality with many characters on the roster.

Spoiled brats these days I swear.

If it had 50 characters which played pretty much the same, then it would be unsatisfactory. But seriously, I have my gripes, but I'm rather satisfied myself. I don't need Lucas or Wolf, but it would be nice and I would fully support them.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Daily reminder that somehow a roster with over 50 character is unsatisfactory, and this is the game that has solid quality with many characters on the roster.

Spoiled brats these days I swear.

Nothing wrong with having quality standards.

 

[Arcadenik]

Only Ridley fans.

And I guess there WAS a lot of reason to be upset with the absence of Mewtwo. But Brawl's newcomers are easily the best batch we've had, or at least for me the most satisfactionary. We had LONG awaited characters finally joining in Brawl, like . And other very popular picks as .

I think that Brawl's roster was really only lacking Mewtwo.

No, the addition of Mewtwo as a DLC character has given me faith in the choices of Sakurai regarding characters again.

I swear, he went total 'relevance + bull**** you wouldn't expect' this time.

Don't forget that we also had long awaited characters finally joining in SSB4 like and very popular picks like .

I think that the main reason you think Sakurai went total "relevance + bull**** you wouldn't expect" in SSB4 is because you did not have much of a connection with most of the SSB4 newcomers like you did with the Brawl newcomers. You probably did not grow up playing the games with SSB4 newcomers like you did with the games with Brawl newcomers.

Spoiler

Brawl newcomers who debuted in the 1980s
always gotten a handful of cameos for over 20 years before getting a playable role in Mario Kart DS so he was a retro newcomer
one game in 1986, another game in 1991... then nothing but a GBA port in 2004 so he was a retro newcomer
always had several games throughout the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s so he was always there to maintain his popularity

Brawl newcomers who debuted in the 1990s
always been around since the 1990s with lots of games to keep up his popularity
always been around since the 1990s with several recurring appearances in Kirby games to keep up his popularity
always been around since the 1990s with many recurring appearances in Mario party/sports games to keep up his popularity before reinventing his image in 2003 with WarioWare series
always been around since the 1990s with several recurring appearances in Kirby games to keep up his popularity
always been around since the 1990s, even when the DKC franchise was dormant he still had lots of recurring appearances in Mario party/sports games to keep up his popularity
always been around since the 1990s and became relevant again in 2004 with FireRed & LeafGreen
recurring character since Star Fox 64 and appeared in Star Fox Assault and Star Fox Command

Brawl newcomers who debuted in the 2000s
the only brand-new franchise since Melee with two games at the time
a recurring version of child Link since Wind Waker; Zelda is a long-running franchise
a new version of Samus since Zero Mission; Metroid is a long-running franchise
a new protagonist of the latest game in the long-running franchise of Fire Emblem
a new protagonist of the latest game in the short-lived franchise of Mother; also Mother 3 temporarily revived the franchise after 12 years of no games
a new popular Pokemon from the latest games in the long-running franchise of Pokemon

SSB4 newcomers who debuted in the 1980s
always been around since the 1980s with dozens of games to maintain his popularity but people think he had no popularity and was shoehorned in as a favor to Namco
had a couple arcade games and a NES game in the 1980s and only one SNES game in the 1990s before disappearing completely for 15 years before being revived with a new Wii game but since Little Mac didn't have many games between SNES and Wii, people still see him as either a retro character they remembered or as a brand-new character from a brand-new franchise they didn't grow up with
had only one game in the NES and a few cameos for 30 years so he is the retro newcomer
like Little Mac, she had a game in 1986 and another one in 1991 before disappearing completely for 25 years before being revived with a new 3DS game but people still see her as a retro character they remembered or as a brand-new character from a brand-new franchise they didn't grow up with
had many games since the 1980s to maintain his popularity and as a result, people grew up with Mega Man

SSB4 newcomers who debuted in the 2000s
a brand-new franchise that debuted in the same year as Melee (in Japan, that is) so to older Smash fans, Animal Crossing still feels like too new like Pikmin since they didn't grow up with Animal Crossing but to younger fans, they grew up with Animal Crossing
a new recurring character from Super Mario Sunshine in 2002 so to older Smash fans, they still see Bowser Jr. as too new and some might resent him for replacing the Koopalings (at least they are in too) but to younger fans, they grew up with Bowser Jr.; he is also from a long-running franchise of Mario
a major new IP from the Wii era since 2006 so they still feel too new to older Smash fans who yearn the 1990s and they feel that Miis are shoehorned in everything but to younger fans, they generally love these avatars.
a new recurring character from Super Mario Galaxy in 2007 so to older Smash fans, they still see Rosalina as too new since she didn't have as many appearances as Waluigi and Daisy did but to younger fans, they grew up with Rosalina; she is also from a long-running franchise of Mario
a major new IP from the Wii era since 2007 so she still feels too new to older Smash fans; worse yet, she hails from a franchise where Smash fans are not the main demographic (must be why she was unexpected)

SSB4 newcomers who debuted in the 2010s
a niche new IP since 2010 so he is very obscure compared to most characters and he is too new so people didn't grow up on Xenoblade Chronicles (people will grow up on it in 10 years from now like what happened with Golden Sun)
a new character from a new game in a long dormant franchise so naturally, people didn't grow up with Dark Pit
new characters from a long-running franchise of Fire Emblem so people didn't grow up with them unless they were preschoolers
a brand-new Pokemon from a long-running franchise, of course people didn't grow up with Greninja

tl;dr - most of Brawl newcomers are characters you grew up with and most of SSB4 newcomers are characters you did not grow up with.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I honestly think the SSB4 rosters is one of the best rosters to date, only thing that really bothers me are all the cuts (with the exception of the Ice Climbers), lack of Isaac, lack of a DK newcomer, lack of a Metroid newcomer (Ridley, Dark Samus, or Anthony Higgs), and a lack of a Zelda newcomer. Otherwise, I think this is quite possibly the best roster we've had.

 

[Kalimdori]

I will happily admit that I am not satisfied with Smash 4's roster. I didn't get a single newcomer that has truly interested me,(Seriously? Not one heavyweight newcomer?) and some of my favorite characters were cut. I still have an absolutely blast with the game, it's already the most played game on my Wii U, (Although I find myself playing Project M just as often) but I do hope they have more to offer us.

I think my biggest gripe with Smash 4's roster is that it rides the popularity of newer games a lot heavier then others, choosing characters based more on what is new and unique, and less on the premise of bringing Nintendo All Star characters together. (What Smash is advertised to be) We still got some of those characters, sure, although that's majorly due to the third party guests, but an awful lot of the newcomers in this game hardly feel like All Stars. Heck, Greninja didn't even exist when the roster was decided, the only other example of something like that is Roy, who only got in Melee because he was an easy clone of Marth.

Daily reminder that somehow a roster with over 50 character is unsatisfactory, and this is the game that has solid quality with many characters on the roster.

Spoiled brats these days I swear.

How dare people hate on Brawl? It was a high quality game with a lot of effort put into it, with 39 characters and a full blown story mode. And yet some people still hate on the game play because it's slower and tripping exists.

Spoiled brats these days I swear.


I still enjoy Smash 4, I play it all the time, but that doesn't mean I have to automatically love every aspect of it.

 

[Arcadenik]

Err... I think Greninja did exist when Sakurai decided on the roster... he likely had access to the concept art and made a moveset in one night based on that concept art. Remember that Pokemon X & Y came out the next year so it obviously had plenty of development time during 2012 and 2013. Greninja is the Roy of SSB4 only better... since he is not a clone of anyone.

 

[Kalimdori]

Err... I think Greninja did exist when Sakurai decided on the roster... he likely had access to the concept art and made a moveset in one night based on that concept art. Remember that Pokemon X & Y came out the next year so it obviously had plenty of development time during 2012 and 2013. Greninja is the Roy of SSB4 only better... since he is not a clone of anyone.

That was poorly worded on my part, meant to say nobody knew he existed. He was placed in the game with only guesses as to how popular he would be, solely to promote the 6th generation. I'd say he is the Roy of SSB4 but worse, Roy's game hadn't even been released, but he took little to no effort to add into the game last minute. Greninja however was decided to be put into Smash long before his game was released, or even before he had a solidified design. (Sakurai did have access to the concept art, that's been discussed repeatedly in this forum) Adding him for the sole purpose of adding him doesn't feel right in a game lauded as a mash up of Nintendo All Stars.

Not hating on Greninja, he's one of the more enjoyable newcomers I play as, but he almost feels shoehorned in to me.

 

[Xzsmmc]

That was poorly worded on my part, meant to say nobody knew he existed. He was placed in the game with only guesses as to how popular he would be, solely to promote the 6th generation. I'd say he is the Roy of SSB4 but worse, Roy's game hadn't even been released, but he took little to no effort to add into the game last minute. Greninja however was decided to be put into Smash long before his game was released, or even before he had a solidified design. (Sakurai did have access to the concept art, that's been discussed repeatedly in this forum) Adding him for the sole purpose of adding him doesn't feel right in a game lauded as a mash up of Nintendo All Stars.

Not hating on Greninja, he's one of the more enjoyable newcomers I play as, but he almost feels shoehorned in to me.

I have a theory that Gamefreak made him ludicrously good in the Pokemon games to make him popular enough to justify his inclusion.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I'm not going to try to hide the fact that I think there are holes in the roster, but I don't think it's fair to say I'm rightly dissatisfied, either. We got plenty of fantastic newcomers, a big of extra baggage, and Mewtwo. Maybe it'll be fun to go over the holes I see in the roster. Man, I feel like I'm going to ACCIDENTALLY ave way too many XD No particular order, btw

1. Ice Climbers - A unique character that got unfairly compromised. I would have gladly given up the 3DS version for them

2. Star Fox antagonist - Pretty much has to be Wolf, he played the role very well and rounds out the series representation as a result, a very disappointing cut

3. Snake - This isn't so much a hole at it is simply dissapointing to see him get cut. I wish he could come back, though I doubt it.

4. Metroid Antagonist - Obviously Ridley is the best choice, but uuuhhhh

4. Grass Pokémon - I thought the lack of a grass type very unsettling, and wish to see new grass type Pokémon in Smash 5 to fill this hole

5. Zelda Newcomer - It pretty much has to happen, and I maintain that my favourite choices are still Tingle and Impa, in that order, as they each represent something new from the games, and are very important. Tingle, in particular, I would argue to be the most iconic Zelda character after the Triforce Trio.

6. DK Newcomer - **** you give me my King K. Rool! This iconic Donkey Kong villain is long overdue!

An honourable mention is Lucas. Despite him being my main, he doesn't really bring anything back to the roster, so he didn't really leave a hole in it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Don't forget that we also had long awaited characters finally joining in SSB4 like and very popular picks like .

I think that the main reason you think Sakurai went total "relevance + bull**** you wouldn't expect" in SSB4 is because you did not have much of a connection with most of the SSB4 newcomers like you did with the Brawl newcomers. You probably did not grow up playing the games with SSB4 newcomers like you did with the games with Brawl newcomers.

Spoiler

Brawl newcomers who debuted in the 1980s
always gotten a handful of cameos for over 20 years before getting a playable role in Mario Kart DS so he was a retro newcomer
one game in 1986, another game in 1991... then nothing but a GBA port in 2004 so he was a retro newcomer
always had several games throughout the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s so he was always there to maintain his popularity

Brawl newcomers who debuted in the 1990s
always been around since the 1990s with lots of games to keep up his popularity
always been around since the 1990s with several recurring appearances in Kirby games to keep up his popularity
always been around since the 1990s with many recurring appearances in Mario party/sports games to keep up his popularity before reinventing his image in 2003 with WarioWare series
always been around since the 1990s with several recurring appearances in Kirby games to keep up his popularity
always been around since the 1990s, even when the DKC franchise was dormant he still had lots of recurring appearances in Mario party/sports games to keep up his popularity
always been around since the 1990s and became relevant again in 2004 with FireRed & LeafGreen
recurring character since Star Fox 64 and appeared in Star Fox Assault and Star Fox Command

Brawl newcomers who debuted in the 2000s
the only brand-new franchise since Melee with two games at the time
a recurring version of child Link since Wind Waker; Zelda is a long-running franchise
a new version of Samus since Zero Mission; Metroid is a long-running franchise
a new protagonist of the latest game in the long-running franchise of Fire Emblem
a new protagonist of the latest game in the short-lived franchise of Mother; also Mother 3 temporarily revived the franchise after 12 years of no games
a new popular Pokemon from the latest games in the long-running franchise of Pokemon

SSB4 newcomers who debuted in the 1980s
always been around since the 1980s with dozens of games to maintain his popularity but people think he had no popularity and was shoehorned in as a favor to Namco
had a couple arcade games and a NES game in the 1980s and only one SNES game in the 1990s before disappearing completely for 15 years before being revived with a new Wii game but since Little Mac didn't have many games between SNES and Wii, people still see him as either a retro character they remembered or as a brand-new character from a brand-new franchise they didn't grow up with
had only one game in the NES and a few cameos for 30 years so he is the retro newcomer
like Little Mac, she had a game in 1986 and another one in 1991 before disappearing completely for 25 years before being revived with a new 3DS game but people still see her as a retro character they remembered or as a brand-new character from a brand-new franchise they didn't grow up with
had many games since the 1980s to maintain his popularity and as a result, people grew up with Mega Man

SSB4 newcomers who debuted in the 2000s
a brand-new franchise that debuted in the same year as Melee (in Japan, that is) so to older Smash fans, Animal Crossing still feels like too new like Pikmin since they didn't grow up with Animal Crossing but to younger fans, they grew up with Animal Crossing
a new recurring character from Super Mario Sunshine in 2002 so to older Smash fans, they still see Bowser Jr. as too new and some might resent him for replacing the Koopalings (at least they are in too) but to younger fans, they grew up with Bowser Jr.; he is also from a long-running franchise of Mario
a major new IP from the Wii era since 2006 so they still feel too new to older Smash fans who yearn the 1990s and they feel that Miis are shoehorned in everything but to younger fans, they generally love these avatars.
a new recurring character from Super Mario Galaxy in 2007 so to older Smash fans, they still see Rosalina as too new since she didn't have as many appearances as Waluigi and Daisy did but to younger fans, they grew up with Rosalina; she is also from a long-running franchise of Mario
a major new IP from the Wii era since 2007 so she still feels too new to older Smash fans; worse yet, she hails from a franchise where Smash fans are not the main demographic (must be why she was unexpected)

SSB4 newcomers who debuted in the 2010s
a niche new IP since 2010 so he is very obscure compared to most characters and he is too new so people didn't grow up on Xenoblade Chronicles (people will grow up on it in 10 years from now like what happened with Golden Sun)
a new character from a new game in a long dormant franchise so naturally, people didn't grow up with Dark Pit
new characters from a long-running franchise of Fire Emblem so people didn't grow up with them unless they were preschoolers
a brand-new Pokemon from a long-running franchise, of course people didn't grow up with Greninja

tl;dr - most of Brawl newcomers are characters you grew up with and most of SSB4 newcomers are characters you did not grow up with.

I'm not sure I... agree with your analysis.
I think the biggest issue is that the new roster didnt add as many characters who have as much gravitas to their name (which is, I believe, specifically why Sakurai went to Pacman and Megaman, because he knew the rest of his character selection was not rooted). This is not to say they are bad choices, but it is certainly a new direction than the 'All Star' route the game had prior.
It in part needs to be at this number of characters, but the issue is not simply JUST BECAUSE the characters are nwer, although less rooting certainly does contribute.
--Many avatar characters. As deserving as Wii Fit and Animal Crossing are for a representative, the blank canvas representative is not a character rep as much as a series vacant rep.
--Multiple games far down the Nintendo IP totem pole getting several new characters per series (I'm lookin at you, FE and KI). Even if last minute, the addition of two characters per a single released game, and two occasions of such happening, really does rub fans the wrong way.

That said-- the third party characters (PM, MM), series representatives (WFT, Villager, Mii), and assortment of other niche new series representatives (DH, Mac, Shulk) are all great new endeavors. Yet, with so few characters added, a number cut, and the only legacy characters coming from third parties,the Nintendo history aspect is not as mindblowing.

That was poorly worded on my part, meant to say nobody knew he existed. He was placed in the game with only guesses as to how popular he would be, solely to promote the 6th generation. I'd say he is the Roy of SSB4 but worse, Roy's game hadn't even been released, but he took little to no effort to add into the game last minute. Greninja however was decided to be put into Smash long before his game was released, or even before he had a solidified design. (Sakurai did have access to the concept art, that's been discussed repeatedly in this forum) Adding him for the sole purpose of adding him doesn't feel right in a game lauded as a mash up of Nintendo All Stars.

Not hating on Greninja, he's one of the more enjoyable newcomers I play as, but he almost feels shoehorned in to me.

It is worse, because it leaves Pokemon as a very poor microcosm of the macrocosm. The representation we currently have of Pokemon does a horrific job of representing the series as a whole. And its just through all these little things that happpened:
We happen to be stuck with Jigglypuff, who is a Smash character but means nothing to Pokemon.
Trainer, the most unique and essential part of the series, is now gone along with the representation of battle mechanic, starters, and some of Nintendo's most famous IPs.
Greninja was added simply to appease something new, literally thrown in just to be new and stand for nothing else.

So overall, we get a number of representatives for Pokemon, but they all feel sub par, simply because they are not greater than the sum of their individual parts.

 

[JamesDNaux]

only thing that really bothers me are all the cuts (with the exception of the Ice Climbers).

This really bothers me. I keep seeing people say things like this (usually throwing Snake in, while they're at it).

Sure, some people may not care for the Ice Climbers, but some people act like it's a good thing that they're gone. Even if someone's been on the receiving end of a chain grab, it's not even possible in this game, so it's completely unwarranted.

Besides Snake, the Ice Climbers were the worst cut for me, because they were one of the most unique characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I am truely missing out on characters I feel should've been put in the game above others. My most wanted newcomers where : Mewtwo, King K.Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac and Impa. I only got Mewtwo eventually.

King K.Rool I understand that he didn't make it in. No recent apperance did hurt him, but I was hoping to see him despite that as he was easily as popular as Mewtwo and Mega Man, and more popular than Little Mac. Also, the Kremlings being back as enemies in Smash Run really got me hopeful. It was a bitter dissapointment, but one I was expecting. That's why I always was rooting for Dixie to, to keep myself from being dissapointed too much. Her ALSO not making it in the end felt like a double whammy.

Isaac. With Little Mac also promoting from AT to playable character, and so much focus on new series representatives as Villager and Wii Fit Trainer, and his popularity I thought Isaac had great chances. Him being nowhere to be seen leaves him as a possible DLC candidate, sure. But it seems to me Shulk just got the favor over him.

Impa. Along with Dixie probably the most likely pick for DLC from my want list. Easily the best pick for a Zelda newcomer. With the only "love" the series got in separating Zelda and Sheik, I feel her inclusion would be more than justified. Recent revival role in Skyward Sword, playable in Hyrule Warriors... I was hoping Sakurai would've gone Greninja on her. Designing her HW playstyle in Smash before it was released.

Newcomers I actually do like this time are:

 

[pupNapoleon]

I really wish Impa just replaced Sheik.
I wonder if that was the plan, with Sheik being an alt, just like I believe Lucas and Wolf were going to be.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I really wish Impa just replaced Sheik.
I wonder if that was the plan, with Sheik being an alt, just like I believe Lucas and Wolf were going to be.

Worst of it all: I suggested this, but got ridiculed about it. Game releases: people suggest JUST this and people seem to agree it's a good idea.

And with all the changes done to Sheik... I really do think it would be the best idea.

I think the absence of Lucas and Wolf also really hurted Dixie and Impa. They would make 100% sence to be put in as Diddy and Sheik semi-clones. But I guess adding Dr.Mario and Dark Pit took priority...

Still see a good possibility to see Lucas, Wolf, Dixie and Impa all togheter as a DLC character pack. As I think semi-clones are a very good idea for DLC characters. Not too time-consuming, and all 4 characters are likely known by Smash players. All are semi-clones of currently popular characters to. And they are from series with a lack of playable characters, or at least new faces (in Zelda's case).

 

[Staarih]

Besides Snake, the Ice Climbers were the worst cut for me, because they were one of the most unique characters.

Same here. And with them, we lost two whole franchises which had representation before. Sort of makes it sting even more, as Smash is all about the history of Nintendo and gaming. Though I guess the IC's still have trophies and such...

Ice Climbers was definitely the cut that bothers me the most, I would've gladly given up the 3DS version for them (I haven't touched Smash 3DS since I got the Wii U version anyway haha!). Otherwise the roster of SSB4 is pretty good. Sure, some staple characters are still missing, I feel, but overall it's fine. Not many of my supported characters got in (I think Shulk and Palutena might have been the only ones), so not much excitement for me at first, but the surprises like Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt are welcome choices.

I'm baffled about no Isaac or Dixie Kong though. The lack of Golden Sun content bar a couple of songs just doesn't feel right. Not even a trophy of Isaac. I think Golden Sun is definitely established enough of a series to not be ignored, but maybe that's just me. Dixie Kong on the other hand is one of the top-female Nintendo characters and recently starred in Tropical Freeze. That, along with DK not getting a newcomer after the Country-games' successful revival, should have granted her a spot. Well, I guess a "DK rep" in general would do, as I wouldn't mind K. Rool at all, but I always thought that Dixie would make it, if nothing else.

I was also totally expecting a Zelda-newcomer and one for Metroid (Ridley), but I'll live without them I'm not sure what to expect out of DLC - I'm in the boat of Mewtwo being possibly the only one, but apparently he's being used as a "testing ground" and I'm sure he'll be popular. So we'll see. I've said this before, but I feel like Lucas + Mother 3 VC release and Wolf + Star Fox Wii U tie in's would be pretty perfect.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I am 100% sure almost that the Ice Climbers will be brought back before any other character after Mewtwo. Sakurai claiming that 'they worked perfectly on the Wii U version' means that there's a whole functioning moveset for them. The fact their cheers are still in the game seems to proof this.

Wolf will likely be brought back next. Not 100% convinced on Lucas yet, but Mother 3 could still easily get translated, then ported to VC. Which would give Lucas all the more reasons to appear as DLC.

Mewtwo will surely do extremely well as DLC. I bet even sales will increase because of him. Because of the free offer if you register both versions. Him being flat out the most requested character for this game will also help a lot.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Worst of it all: I suggested this, but got ridiculed about it. Game releases: people suggest JUST this and people seem to agree it's a good idea.

And with all the changes done to Sheik... I really do think it would be the best idea.

But Hyrule Warriors is what brought Impa some love; she had a badass pair of movesets in that game and a very no nonsense persona. Had Hyrule Warriors been released earlier, I dare say a lot more people would of been down for her as a new Zelda rep last year. Skyward Sword revived her, but not as many people latched on to her for that.

The other problem was; a lot of people liked Sheik's fighting style, so the idea of out and out replacing a (now) three time veteran wasn't a popular one. I imagine it would be like replacing the Ice Climbers in this game with the Baby Mario Brothers, replacing their ice moves with ice ball power ups.

Personally; I'd far rather Impa got in later with a more unique moveset rather than just cloning Sheik's anyway. The Zelda series has enough clone issues as is.

 

[Arcadenik]

It saddens me that Meowth will never be playable in Smash. I am sure a lot of people would really love to see Meowth FINALLY getting in the roster but a lot of people seem to have given up on Meowth and are no longer requesting Nintendo/Sakurai/Pokemon Company to include Meowth in Smash. I feel that Meowth would improve the Pokemon representation in Smash.

I really wish that Simon Belmont is the most wanted third-party character for SSB5 but it seems that Rayman has taken that mantle mainly because he had trophies in SSB4 Wii U. Sadly, he also doesn't seem to be the second most wanted third-party character for SSB5. It is a shame because I absolutely would love to see Castlevania in Smash... especially the music and stages (Town of Jova from Simon's Quest and the first level from Castlevania would make great stages IMO).

At least Toad is finally the sole most-wanted Mario newcomer now that Bowser Jr. and Rosalina are in SSB4. I hope Nintendo helps keep up the momentum by including Toad(s) as playable characters in future main Mario games and making more Captain Toad games.

 

[Diddy Kong]

But Hyrule Warriors is what brought Impa some love; she had a badass pair of movesets in that game and a very no nonsense persona. Had Hyrule Warriors been released earlier, I dare say a lot more people would of been down for her as a new Zelda rep last year. Skyward Sword revived her, but not as many people latched on to her for that.

The other problem was; a lot of people liked Sheik's fighting style, so the idea of out and out replacing a (now) three time veteran wasn't a popular one. I imagine it would be like replacing the Ice Climbers in this game with the Baby Mario Brothers, replacing their ice moves with ice ball power ups.

Personally; I'd far rather Impa got in later with a more unique moveset rather than just cloning Sheik's anyway. The Zelda series has enough clone issues as is.

Well, true that. Hyrule Warriors Impa would fight a lot different than SS Impa. But they could've easily made her based on both incaration I feel. Magic attacks, barrier and the large sword or naginata with a few agile kicking moves a la Sheik, and that'd be an awesome playstyle already.

I do agree though that she probably could use more 'Star Power' to justify her inclusion but seriously... With so many blank state characters in, would this even be an issue? Does Impa have less fame than the likes of ? Or even 'actual' characters as ? The only characters that really DO beat her out are: .

The issue with 'replacement' however is that it's perfectly fine for two other characters to do the same, but not for Sheik and Impa. For example, from Melee to Brawl: was cut, and replaced with the nearly identical . Nobody really gave a damn. Even though supporters where expecting a far more unique child Link, nobody saw this as a bad move.

In this game to. was brought back from Melee, and 's playstyle got a spiritual replacement in . Where people upset that Lucina functioned basically as Roy? Not really. And that was weird considering Roy was almost as much suggested in Japan as Mewtwo was before.

Point is: it doesn't apperantly matter if you replace a character in Smash as long as it's with a more popular, more prominent character. Sakurai isn't as "loyal" to his characters as you want to believe he is. That is why we had every right to be worried about the likes of not returning.

Anyway, Sakurai might've gotten inside information about Hyrule Warriors anyway- it might very well be the exact reason why he kept with . Why? Sheik in Hyrule Warriors represents the moveset that has best. Impa would have to be an original character. If Sheik wasn't in Hyrule Warriors, she'd be replaced with SS Impa most likely. didn't stay around because of her being a 2 time veteran (check 's fate) - but most likely cause of her rather recent apperance in OOT3D and her being playable in Hyrule Warriors.

I'd argue that in the next game, say if Impa has made an appearance in Zelda Wii U in the meanwhile and has a role similar to her role in Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time and Sheik's, that Impa might inherrit the original moveset, wheras Sheik herself might fight more like she did in Hyrule Warriors. With the harp and elements and all. And am really hoping they'll base more on their Hyrule Warriors selves as well.

Am actually happy Sheik has returned in Hyrule Warriors, her apperance in Smash is a whole lot less of an eye sore for me because of this. If it wasn't for that playable role, I'd be farrrrr more upset about the lack of cause I especially held them in higher regard than Sheik. Still sort off do with Wolf.

Anyway, am still hoping for any sort of DLC for especially Dixie Kong and Impa. If they alone would make it alongside Mewtwo, I'd be 100% satisfied with the roster.

 

[Andinus]

This really bothers me. I keep seeing people say things like this (usually throwing Snake in, while they're at it).

Sure, some people may not care for the Ice Climbers, but some people act like it's a good thing that they're gone. Even if someone's been on the receiving end of a chain grab, it's not even possible in this game, so it's completely unwarranted.

Besides Snake, the Ice Climbers were the worst cut for me, because they were one of the most unique characters.

I think people just say things like that about the ice climbers because there are somewhat understandable reasons to their exclusion, same thing with snake. It's not that they aren't missed just as much if not more than Lucas and wolf, people are just more accepting of why they got cut. Because you are completely right, on a scale of loss of game depth Snake and the ice climbers certainly hurt the most.

 

[Deleted member]

Worst of it all: I suggested this, but got ridiculed about it.

You did a lot more than just "suggest" the idea, my friend.
There is reason you got ridiculed.

 

[FlareHabanero]

How dare people hate on Brawl? It was a high quality game with a lot of effort put into it, with 39 characters and a full blown story mode. And yet some people still hate on the game play because it's slower and tripping exists.

Spoiled brats these days I swear.

Many elements were rushed since the Subpar Emissary hogged a lot of the development time, and for what a drab slog that failed as an actually story due to the mismanagenent of exposition and refussal of any sort of narrative. The characters themselves are rather mediocre, many of which were unintentionally nerfed by the shift of mechanics or the case of the newcomers mostly felt incomplete and bare.

However, I would like to point out that this is a different topic. Gameplay effects the whole product, so if it's not fun it's going to effect everything. Hence why Brawl was not satisfactory, not because of the lack of exploits like L-canceling or wavedashing, but the questionable decisions on both the universal mechanics and the characters themselves. It doesn't matter what the number is if it's not fun.

Also, my original point was that rosters with over 50 characters is actually the minority. It's rare to actually have 50 characters or over with a type of game like this, especially without resorting to a lot of filler clones or milking DLC to death. Hell there was a time where having that many characters was literally impossible due to hardware preventing it.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Jeez, guys. Just leave these propagandists alone.

I mean, yeah, I don't agree with all of the propaganda that's been going on, but I'm pretty sure people such as @ Diddy Kong arent trying to annoy anyone with it. If you don't think a certain character will be in, just leave it as "I don't think so." That's all you really need to say without starting a heated argument.

 

[SmashChu]

I am truely missing out on characters I feel should've been put in the game above others. My most wanted newcomers where : Mewtwo, King K.Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac and Impa. I only got Mewtwo eventually.

King K.Rool I understand that he didn't make it in. No recent apperance did hurt him, but I was hoping to see him despite that as he was easily as popular as Mewtwo and Mega Man, and more popular than Little Mac. Also, the Kremlings being back as enemies in Smash Run really got me hopeful. It was a bitter dissapointment, but one I was expecting. That's why I always was rooting for Dixie to, to keep myself from being dissapointed too much. Her ALSO not making it in the end felt like a double whammy.

Isaac. With Little Mac also promoting from AT to playable character, and so much focus on new series representatives as Villager and Wii Fit Trainer, and his popularity I thought Isaac had great chances. Him being nowhere to be seen leaves him as a possible DLC candidate, sure. But it seems to me Shulk just got the favor over him.

Impa. Along with Dixie probably the most likely pick for DLC from my want list. Easily the best pick for a Zelda newcomer. With the only "love" the series got in separating Zelda and Sheik, I feel her inclusion would be more than justified. Recent revival role in Skyward Sword, playable in Hyrule Warriors... I was hoping Sakurai would've gone Greninja on her. Designing her HW playstyle in Smash before it was released.

Newcomers I actually do like this time are:

I think Impa really couldn't happen until Hyrule Warriors. Her role, up to that point, was just a NPC who never really does any kind of fighting. In Skyward Sword, she only appears for a few screens. In Hyrule Warriors, they fleshed out her fighting capabilities, so she would work better for Smash now.

We still need another DK character, I agree with that.

It saddens me that Meowth will never be playable in Smash. I am sure a lot of people would really love to see Meowth FINALLY getting in the roster but a lot of people seem to have given up on Meowth and are no longer requesting Nintendo/Sakurai/Pokemon Company to include Meowth in Smash. I feel that Meowth would improve the Pokemon representation in Smash.

I really wish that Simon Belmont is the most wanted third-party character for SSB5 but it seems that Rayman has taken that mantle mainly because he had trophies in SSB4 Wii U. Sadly, he also doesn't seem to be the second most wanted third-party character for SSB5. It is a shame because I absolutely would love to see Castlevania in Smash... especially the music and stages (Town of Jova from Simon's Quest and the first level from Castlevania would make great stages IMO).

At least Toad is finally the sole most-wanted Mario newcomer now that Bowser Jr. and Rosalina are in SSB4. I hope Nintendo helps keep up the momentum by including Toad(s) as playable characters in future main Mario games and making more Captain Toad games.

Rayman is popular here, but not really anywhere else. A lot of people don't like him because he doesn't fit in with Nintendo like Megaman, Sonic, or even Pac-Man do. There is more criticism outside of Smash Boards. Now, the problem with Simon is he hasn't held up as well as the other three characters. Unless you played Castlevania back in the day or knew the series well enough, you likely wouldn't know Simon. He hasn't been in a lot of new games and the series has taken a back seat to many other series. Konami is know fare more for Metal Gear than Castlevania.

After Brawl, Megaman was the character everyone wanted. But that is not the case here. There is no third party character people really want. I think the next one may move away from third party characters. The problem is they add a lot of bloat to the games. For each series, you have to add a new stage, music, and trophies to them as well as an assist trophy. They take resources away for just one character. The problem is if you add another third party character and keep the others, you'lll be doing this 4 times. Right now, there are 25 different series, including Ice Climber. At a minimum, you'll have 25 new stages PLUS all the other series you plan to add. This number will likely be over 30. This stage doesn't include classic stages either. Also, the roster right now is 49 characters, sans Mii. The next game will likely add around 12-14 chatacters so we're looking at a high of 63 characters. If they try to bring back Wolf and Ice Climbers, we're looking at 65 characters. Mind you, the largest roster of a traditional fighting game is Tekken Tag 2 with 59 characters. So some cuts may be nessisary to add a lot of new characters. Outside of the clones, third parties would be the best as they reduce the workload in other areas.

I think the benefit has eroded as the characters people want in are already in. I don't think there will that much excitement over Rayman or Simon or anyone else. Unless there is a Minecraft level game, I think third party characters are past their prime.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Many elements were rushed since the Subpar Emissary hogged a lot of the development time, and for what a drab slog that failed as an actually story due to the mismanagenent of exposition and refussal of any sort of narrative. The characters themselves are rather mediocre, many of which were unintentionally nerfed by the shift of mechanics or the case of the newcomers mostly felt incomplete and bare.

However, I would like to point out that this is a different topic. Gameplay effects the whole product, so if it's not fun it's going to effect everything. Hence why Brawl was not satisfactory, not because of the lack of exploits like L-canceling or wavedashing, but the questionable decisions on both the universal mechanics and the characters themselves. It doesn't matter what the number is if it's not fun.

Also, my original point was that rosters with over 50 characters is actually the minority. It's rare to actually have 50 characters or over with a type of game like this, especially without resorting to a lot of filler clones or milking DLC to death. Hell there was a time where having that many characters was literally impossible due to hardware preventing it.

I'm actually surprised you posted in this thread recently considering your hatred towards the speculative community.

 

[FlareHabanero]

There are people actually expecting the roster to be in the 60's next time?

Well I know exactly how things are going to go down. It's instead going to end up in the 30's because the developers want to simplify things (it's a hassle to make characters alone), people throw a fit because people treat cuts like the equivalent of their mother being stabbed to death right before their eyes but times it by 20 or so, declare it the worst game ever that ruined the franchise forever, and people that actually play Super Smash Bros. will still play Super Smash Bros. Oh and still no Ridley.

Frankly I think it would be ideal in order to focus on making sure the characters are in peak condition.

Also for the record, producer Katsuhiro Harada mentioned that even he thought the characters were too excessive in Tekken Tag Tournament 2, and is going to try and be more conservative with the production of Tekken 7. There is 20 characters revealed at the time of this post by the way.

I'm actually surprised you posted in this thread recently considering your hatred towards the speculative community.

Super Smash Bros. in general is boring me, so I'm talking a break from the competitive aspects for now. Lately I've been playing Guilty Gear Xrd in order to sharpen my fighting game finesse after a long hiatus. I main Bedman for the record. I don't even want DLC or anything like that, I just want to clarify that things aren't so black and white like people think and priorities here aren't right.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Super Smash Bros. in general is boring me, so I'm talking a break from the competitive aspects for now. Lately I've been playing Guilty Gear Xrd in order to sharpen my fighting game finesse after a long hiatus. I main Bedman for the record. I don't even want DLC or anything like that, I just want to clarify that things aren't so black and white like people think and priorities here aren't right.

That game actually looks pretty cool. I'm just surprised that it isn't available over in Europe.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think the benefit has eroded as the characters people want in are already in.

This can be applied to Nintendo characters, too, not just third-party characters. Let's say... if we did get literally all the playable characters from all Smash games to date, what's the benefit of adding one more? what's the benefit of NOT adding one more? what's the benefit of subtracting one? what's the benefit of substituting a character? what's the benefit of executing that decision on a certain character?

To give you the big picture, I have all the groups below so you can decide for yourself the pros and cons for adding, not adding, subtracting, and substituting a certain character.

Spoiler

Mario series


Donkey Kong series


Yoshi series


Wario series


Zelda series


Metroid series


Kid Icarus series


Mother series


Fire Emblem series


Kirby series


Star Fox series


Pokemon series


Nintendo franchises from the 1980s and 1990s


Nintendo franchises from the 2000s and 2010s


Third-party franchises

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think Impa really couldn't happen until Hyrule Warriors. Her role, up to that point, was just a NPC who never really does any kind of fighting. In Skyward Sword, she only appears for a few screens. In Hyrule Warriors, they fleshed out her fighting capabilities, so she would work better for Smash now.

We still need another DK character, I agree with that.

Rayman is popular here, but not really anywhere else. A lot of people don't like him because he doesn't fit in with Nintendo like Megaman, Sonic, or even Pac-Man do. There is more criticism outside of Smash Boards. Now, the problem with Simon is he hasn't held up as well as the other three characters. Unless you played Castlevania back in the day or knew the series well enough, you likely wouldn't know Simon. He hasn't been in a lot of new games and the series has taken a back seat to many other series. Konami is know fare more for Metal Gear than Castlevania.

After Brawl, Megaman was the character everyone wanted. But that is not the case here. There is no third party character people really want. I think the next one may move away from third party characters. The problem is they add a lot of bloat to the games. For each series, you have to add a new stage, music, and trophies to them as well as an assist trophy. They take resources away for just one character. The problem is if you add another third party character and keep the others, you'lll be doing this 4 times. Right now, there are 25 different series, including Ice Climber. At a minimum, you'll have 25 new stages PLUS all the other series you plan to add. This number will likely be over 30. This stage doesn't include classic stages either. Also, the roster right now is 49 characters, sans Mii. The next game will likely add around 12-14 chatacters so we're looking at a high of 63 characters. If they try to bring back Wolf and Ice Climbers, we're looking at 65 characters. Mind you, the largest roster of a traditional fighting game is Tekken Tag 2 with 59 characters. So some cuts may be nessisary to add a lot of new characters. Outside of the clones, third parties would be the best as they reduce the workload in other areas.

I think the benefit has eroded as the characters people want in are already in. I don't think there will that much excitement over Rayman or Simon or anyone else. Unless there is a Minecraft level game, I think third party characters are past their prime.

I'd argue Bomberman is a very wanted third party character. I disagree that they arent import, in fact, in the new character selection, Pacman and Megaman are the redeeming characters as far as characters of history go, which is a classic element of Smash. To compare Smash to a 'traditional' fighting game is a bit obsurd, as it is a king of he hill fihting game, not a traditional fighter, but by next Smash the limitations, again, will be higher. Question to that though, how many characters are inthat Mortal Kombat with all the characters?
I'm a bit disturbed that you refer to stages, ATs, and music for third parties as "unnecessary bloat," they add value to gameplay. I cannot say the same for the trophies, but those other things, absolutely do.

 

[Autumn ♫]

This really bothers me. I keep seeing people say things like this (usually throwing Snake in, while they're at it).

Sure, some people may not care for the Ice Climbers, but some people act like it's a good thing that they're gone. Even if someone's been on the receiving end of a chain grab, it's not even possible in this game, so it's completely unwarranted.

Besides Snake, the Ice Climbers were the worst cut for me, because they were one of the most unique characters.

It's not that I feel that it's better that they were cut, it's just that they weren't as big of a deal to me as the other cuts were. If they were to be returned, I'd probably be as happy as the next guy. I just feel more closely attached to Snake, Lucas, Wolf, and the Pokemon Trainer.

 

[BKupa666]

This really bothers me. I keep seeing people say things like this (usually throwing Snake in, while they're at it).

Sure, some people may not care for the Ice Climbers, but some people act like it's a good thing that they're gone. Even if someone's been on the receiving end of a chain grab, it's not even possible in this game, so it's completely unwarranted.

Besides Snake, the Ice Climbers were the worst cut for me, because they were one of the most unique characters.

This came up on GameFAQs as well. A user was making a "If I made Smash. . ." topic, and listed Jigglypuff as a cut. He got completely raked over the coals for it. It got me thinking. . .

What are the odds that, if Jigglypuff were actually cut from a Smash game, people would tie themselves into a bloody pretzel trying to defend why it's okay that she's gone? "No one cared about her anyway" or "Too many Gen One Reps," "She's irrelevant," or "She sucked in Brawl anyway."

In a similar vein, if a guy were to propose cutting the Ice Climbers prior to SSB4, he'd get completely chewed out for daring to cut "such a unique veteran."

It's like 1984-levels of rewriting history, just because people have to pretend that every Smash roster is just peachy, and that quantity is somehow the same thing as quality.