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Character Discussion Thread

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Pazzo.

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I thought I was onto something when I recently made a point that no Smash game has had a newcomer and a clone of that newcomer in the same game.

And then I was promptly reminded of Mario / Luigi, Marth / Roy and arguably Kirby / Jigglypuff.

It still strikes me as interesting how clones are a recurring feature in Smash.

Honestly, I'd be disappointed if there weren't clones, since they're pretty much free characters and all.
Clones also add depth by taking an existing meta and changing it slightly. Pit and Dark Pit are a great example. You're going to have to change followups, reads, and strategies based on three minor differences.

It interests me deeply, to be honest.
 

RobinOnDrugs

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Anthony's entrance animation would have him go "REMEMBER ME?".
 
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Diddy Kong

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Anthony's entrance animation would have him go "REMEMBER ME?".
And vs Samus it should be: 'Fancy meeting YOU here princess!'.

Anthony Higgs would easily be one of the most comical additions ever.

Also, since Snake has been cut Anthony would be the best character suitable as his spiritual succesor. I could easily see Anthony pull a Snake-like Side B for example.
 

Pazzo.

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And vs Samus it should be: 'Fancy meeting YOU here princess!'.

Anthony Higgs would easily be one of the most comical additions ever.

Also, since Snake has been cut Anthony would be the best character suitable as his spiritual succesor. I could easily see Anthony pull a Snake-like Side B for example.
I'd rather Stylux than Anthony.
 

Arcadenik

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Sales always had an impact, it's just not 1:1 as people think. Why do you think Wii Fit Trainer is a playable character.
It is just like what I have always said for years... a lot of people who had the NES most likely had Duck Hunt.

Looks like Duck Hunt Dog was actually a good idea all along. :troll:
 

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I'm not sure how that's a good source or a better source than a poll. The poll is specifically asking for characters people want in Smash. The games is just characters from any walk of life. I'm sure Cloud and Master Chief are high on there too.
The problem with the smashboards polls is that they are targetted at such a minuscule portion of the Smash fanbase that just about any other information source is more reliable. Not saying it is reliable, just saying that it's the most reliable out of anything we've had so far.

Anthony's entrance animation would have him go "REMEMBER ME?".
With a taunt of "You got no style!"
 

SmashChu

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The problem with the smashboards polls is that they are targetted at such a minuscule portion of the Smash fanbase that just about any other information source is more reliable. Not saying it is reliable, just saying that it's the most reliable out of anything we've had so far.
That is a problem with the Smashboards poll, but the difference is they are meant for that, so the poll has more validity then the game does since it's measuring how people want in Smash. It's not too far off as characters like Mega Man, Little Mac, Palutena and Shulk all did well on the poll (maybe Bowser Jr too, not sure). You can also look at things like Robin, Villager and Duck hunt who were things people talked about. So I don't think there is a major problem with the poll.

It is just like what I have always said for years... a lot of people who had the NES most likely had Duck Hunt.

Looks like Duck Hunt Dog was actually a good idea all along. :troll:
I do like Duck Hunt, and I think that's Sakurai's talent. In fairness, I like Pac-Man too, but I didn't want him because he felt a bit forced (still kind of does) and the fear of getting awful Pac-Man from the cartoon (which, did I mention is awful).
 

Folt

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Clones also add depth by taking an existing meta and changing it slightly. Pit and Dark Pit are a great example. You're going to have to change followups, reads, and strategies based on three minor differences.

It interests me deeply, to be honest.
Or in Dr. Mario's case where some minor tweaks make him pretty different, gameplay-wise, from Mario, despite sharing what's essentially the same moveset with two (one?) exceptions.
 

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I was thinking about the video where a lady was carrying a binder with SSB4 characters and she was showing them to random people on the streets... and most people didn't recognize most of the characters... and yet the games sold millions already?

I think that what Sakurai was doing was adding characters that most people in the gaming culture and Nintendo history would recognize... he was adding characters for the gamers (casual and hardcore), not for the people who don't play games. People who don't play games would likely get the game for their kids just because it had Mario, Pikachu, and "Zelda" on the front.

Seriously, if you look at all the box covers in all Smash games, they always have Mario, Pikachu, and Link in the front while most characters are in the background (Link was in the background in 64 but he is in the front in the rest).
 

Wintropy

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Clones also add depth by taking an existing meta and changing it slightly. Pit and Dark Pit are a great example. You're going to have to change followups, reads, and strategies based on three minor differences.

It interests me deeply, to be honest.
This, pretty much.

I've had immensely satisfying Marth / Lucina matchups where both parties have had to adjust their playstyles very, very subtly to fight the opponent, and it's yielded significant results. Those seemingly minor differences can lead to a lot of interesting fights. It's similar to dittos, but with that alternative gameplay element that shifts the whole paradigm about.
 

Pazzo.

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This, pretty much.

I've had immensely satisfying Marth / Lucina matchups where both parties have had to adjust their playstyles very, very subtly to fight the opponent, and it's yielded significant results. Those seemingly minor differences can lead to a lot of interesting fights. It's similar to dittos, but with that alternative gameplay element that shifts the whole paradigm about.
To be honest, I would have loved Alpha as an Olimar clone.

But I'll take Dark Pit as the next best thing.
 

Wintropy

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To be honest, I would have loved Alpha as an Olimar clone.

But I'll take Dark Pit as the next best thing.
Aye. For better or for worse, though, time restraints and technical complexities rendered that a no-go.

It would be great if they did something like that in future, though. I honestly think there's enough potential there to make him a semi-clone at least.
 

pupNapoleon

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Aye. For better or for worse, though, time restraints and technical complexities rendered that a no-go.

It would be great if they did something like that in future, though. I honestly think there's enough potential there to make him a semi-clone at least.
What technical limitations kept Alph from being a clone- hos technicality of not being in Kid Icarus? Sakurai went on record to tell us how easily/difficultly the clones were made, and Olimar/Alpha stats could have been adjusted and rebalanced just as easily as Pittoo's. At least then we would've had a character likely to stay in Nintendo's long game plan and next Smash.
 

PSIBoy

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What technical limitations kept Alph from being a clone- hos technicality of not being in Kid Icarus? Sakurai went on record to tell us how easily/difficultly the clones were made, and Olimar/Alpha stats could have been adjusted and rebalanced just as easily as Pittoo's. At least then we would've had a character likely to stay in Nintendo's long game plan and next Smash.
I do not think technical limitations prevented Alph's conversion into a clone, rather the time it would take to test and apply extra programming to the Pikmin's AI doomed him. Lucina and Dark Pit (the latter who is almost a complete clone) were only one character apiece, and would require minimal adjustments from their counterparts (Marth and Pit) to be ready for battle. Alph on the other hand would require not only that but also programming for the Pikmin's AI. I admit I do not know how long it would've taken, but that's my theory, and that may also explain why Dark Pit has only 3 moves different from Pit: they may have not had enough time to create more differences. Call BS if you will, but this is the most logical explanation I could come up with.
 

Wintropy

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What technical limitations kept Alph from being a clone- hos technicality of not being in Kid Icarus? Sakurai went on record to tell us how easily/difficultly the clones were made, and Olimar/Alpha stats could have been adjusted and rebalanced just as easily as Pittoo's. At least then we would've had a character likely to stay in Nintendo's long game plan and next Smash.
Yeah, @ PSIBoy PSIBoy beat me to the punch.

I'll gladly copy-paste my wall of text on the matter, if you'd like~
 
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I do not think technical limitations prevented Alph's conversion into a clone, rather the time it would take to test and apply extra programming to the Pikmin's AI doomed him. Lucina and Dark Pit (the latter who is almost a complete clone) were only one character apiece, and would require minimal adjustments from their counterparts (Marth and Pit) to be ready for battle. Alph on the other hand would require not only that but also programming for the Pikmin's AI. I admit I do not know how long it would've taken, but that's my theory, and that may also explain why Dark Pit has only 3 moves different from Pit: they may have not had enough time to create more differences. Call BS if you will, but this is the most logical explanation I could come up with.
I also think Sakurai tends to keep the uniqueness of Olimar's main attribute, the Pikmin, and that he wouldn't make a clone of him as it would break this uniqueness, and so with others like Rosalina, Little Mac, Robin, Shulk and so on.
 

Kenith

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I also think Sakurai tends to keep the uniqueness of Olimar's main attribute, the Pikmin, and that he wouldn't make a clone of him as it would break this uniqueness, and so with others like Rosalina, Little Mac, Robin, Shulk and so on.
That doesn't sit right with me. Clones, by virtue of their very existence, cannot be unique. Adding Dark Pit and Lucina but not Alph because of Olimar being unique would be highly contradictory.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I was thinking about the video where a lady was carrying a binder with SSB4 characters and she was showing them to random people on the streets... and most people didn't recognize most of the characters... and yet the games sold millions already?

I think that what Sakurai was doing was adding characters that most people in the gaming culture and Nintendo history would recognize... he was adding characters for the gamers (casual and hardcore), not for the people who don't play games. People who don't play games would likely get the game for their kids just because it had Mario, Pikachu, and "Zelda" on the front.

Seriously, if you look at all the box covers in all Smash games, they always have Mario, Pikachu, and Link in the front while most characters are in the background (Link was in the background in 64 but he is in the front in the rest).
I figure Super Smash Bros largely sells itself these days, it's been around long enough and made a name for itself. At least it does among the more casual (laid back?) people who'll probably just see a new iteration of a game they really like rather than a vehicle for all their favourite Nintendo characters.

I can't imagine them being as difficult to please as the core fanbase.
 
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Folt

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I'd say brand power is a powerful tool, and Smash has that in spades. That said, it never hurts to put the characters guaranteed to be popular in the front of the covers so.
 

Jason the Yoshi

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Are we still talking about Anthony Higgs?

Get real, people! They would add five metroid characters before Anthony Higgs is ever playable. And those characters are as follows.

1st in line: Adam Malkovich
2. Rundas
3. Sylux
4. Ghor
5. Gandrayda
 

GamerGuy09

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There is only ONE character that everyone would love despite being a clone character.

Doc Louis.

Basically he would be the Ganondorf to Little Mac's Captain Falcon. He would be slower, hit like a freight train, but have better recovery. Like he could do his Up-B after the Side-B.
 

Jason the Yoshi

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There is only ONE character that everyone would love despite being a clone character.

Doc Louis.

Basically he would be the Ganondorf to Little Mac's Captain Falcon. He would be slower, hit like a freight train, but have better recovery. Like he could do his Up-B after the Side-B.
And his winning stances could have him and that chocolate bar. That would be cool, bro.
 

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There is only ONE character that everyone would love despite being a clone character.

Doc Louis.

Basically he would be the Ganondorf to Little Mac's Captain Falcon. He would be slower, hit like a freight train, but have better recovery. Like he could do his Up-B after the Side-B.
The best part is, in his taunts Doc Louis cheers himself on.
 

GamerGuy09

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And his winning stances could have him and that chocolate bar. That would be cool, bro.
I think Doc Louis is definitely possible for a DLC character. They can just remove him from Little Mac's winning animation. His Final Smash could be his Star Punch. Also, Doc Louis knows how to fight HARD. Just watch this.

 

Jason the Yoshi

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I think Doc Louis is definitely possible for a DLC character. They can just remove him from Little Mac's winning animation. His Final Smash could be his Star Punch. Also, Doc Louis knows how to fight HARD. Just watch this.

Yup, but you would think he's gotta do something with that chocolate.
 

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Are we still talking about Anthony Higgs?

Get real, people! They would add five metroid characters before Anthony Higgs is ever playable. And those characters are as follows.

1st in line: Adam Malkovich
2. Rundas
3. Sylux
4. Ghor
5. Gandrayda
Of those characters, 4 are dead, 4 are one off characters, and 3 will probably never return in a future Metroid game. Of that list, Sylux maybe has a better shot, and that's a slim maybe.

Doesn't really matter anyways, as of right now Metroid isn't getting a DLC character unless Sakurai changes his mind about Ridley, there's no reason to add one unless they are slated to appear in a future Metroid game.
 

Jason the Yoshi

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Of those characters, 4 are dead, 4 are one off characters, and 3 will probably never return in a future Metroid game. Of that list, Sylux maybe has a better shot, and that's a slim maybe.

Doesn't really matter anyways, as of right now Metroid isn't getting a DLC character unless Sakurai changes his mind about Ridley, there's no reason to add one unless they are slated to appear in a future Metroid game.
Being dead didn't stop Ganondorf from Melee, y'know.
 

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Uhh, yes he did. He was just resurrected in Twilight Princess/Wind Waker by the Triforce of Power
No, he absolutely did not. He was sealed away by the sages.
He died in TP and TWW, but not OoT.
Regardless, that's not what he meant, anyway, so this is irrelevant.

Also, I would love if Doc Louis was a Mac clone with no KO meter but higher power.
Also, we could have King Hippo, who is really strong but has recoil damage.
 

Kalimdori

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Being dead didn't stop Ganondorf from Melee, y'know.
Like Kenith said, Ganondorf didn't actually die. And unlike Ganondorf, those Metroid characters are probably going to stay dead, Sylux and Anthony are the only ones with a half decent shot of returning in future games in a form that could be playable.

Also Ganondorf isn't even remotely comparable to some relatively unknown one off characters in a much smaller franchise.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Are we still talking about Anthony Higgs?

Get real, people! They would add five metroid characters before Anthony Higgs is ever playable. And those characters are as follows.

1st in line: Adam Malkovich
2. Rundas
3. Sylux
4. Ghor
5. Gandrayda
Sakurai, will Mewtwo be Top Tier? And will you please consider adding King K.Rool, Isaac, Impa and Dixie Kong as DLC characters?
 
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Glass Joe as the new joke character pl0x.
He's Air Mac both in the air and on the ground. :troll: But to make things fair, he can wear his headgear, which absorbs knockback.
 

Kenith

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Glass Joe as the new joke character pl0x.
He's Air Mac both in the air and on the ground. :troll: But to make things fair, he can wear his headgear, which absorbs knockback.
I would love to see a Smash character that does pathetic damage but survives to ridiculous percents and piss everyone off.
 

Swamp Sensei

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